I took my trailer in for inspection today (I live in a state that requires yearly inspections on all vehicles and trailers over a certain weight) and had a conversation with the owner of the place about diesel trucks. He said that a good friend of his repairs and rebuilds diesel engines and strongly recommends using a feul conditioner to prolong the engine life. Any one have any thoughts? How about you, Mr. Truck?
Posted 2007-04-02 9:14 PM (#58344 - in reply to #58335) Subject: RE: diesel fuel conditioners
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 544 Location: Claxton, Ga.
You do not have to use a condition. The only part it may help extend the life is the injection pump or injectors. I use it only to keep the carbon down on my injector tips. If you want to use something you can you Diesel Power Service or what I use is Howe's Meaner cleaner.
Posted 2007-04-03 1:39 AM (#58365 - in reply to #58335) Subject: RE: diesel fuel conditioners
Elite Veteran
Posts: 1160 Location: Denver Colorado
Some of them do well from Lucas Oil, Amsoil, BG, Royal Purple etc. I would say a diesel needs it more than a gas engine. Before Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel, it was the garbage disposal for refineries. Alot of junk was passed through diesel to avoid EPA disposal, or at least that's the rumors. I'm going to try a Cetane boost in my diesel, see what that does.
Posted 2007-04-03 7:59 AM (#58374 - in reply to #58335) Subject: RE: diesel fuel conditioners
Regular
Posts: 79
You never had anything to worry about with the old low sulphur diesel. Now that we have been forced to use ultra low sulphur diesel, a fuel conditioner is cheap insurance for some very expensive parts.
Sulphur, itself, is NOT a lubricant. But the process that takes the sulphur out removes most of the lubricating properties of the fuel. The refineries have said that they put lubrication back into the fuel but I wouldn't trust them to put in anything that isn't the absolute bare minimum.
Older trucks just plain weren't designed to run without lubrication. Bosch has already admitted that the VP44 pump in the 98.5-2002 Dodge diesels was not designed to run on low sulphur diesel... let alone ultra low sulphur.
That is why I'm now running Power Service in every tank. It works out to less than $1 a tank. Cheap insurance.
Posted 2007-04-03 8:22 AM (#58376 - in reply to #58335) Subject: RE: diesel fuel conditioners
Expert
Posts: 2689
I see it as a total waste of money, but if that is how YOU want to waste YOUR money - well, I guess the return is in peace of mind.
I see people chasing around to "save" a couple of cents a gallon on the fuel itself, but add back 5 or 10c in "additive" ...curious (-:
Typically, road salt will get the body first, the engine will outlast most of the rest of the truck - as long as you keep oil in it and coolant in the rad.
Posted 2007-04-04 7:56 PM (#58524 - in reply to #58335) Subject: RE: diesel fuel conditioners
Elite Veteran
Posts: 671 Location: THE GREAT NORTHWET, OREGON(THE REAL GODS COUNTRY)
My 2 cents worth....I use an additive stanadine and or the Ford additive that also claims to boost cetaine levels.Have tried it with and without does seem to help fuel milage and cold starts.
Posted 2007-04-05 7:45 PM (#58622 - in reply to #58376) Subject: RE: diesel fuel conditioners
Expert
Posts: 1719 Location: PA
I think I'll try it anyhow, Reg. II'm not as concerned about mileage as I am engine life. I've talked to a few people lately that have had trouble with clogged fuel filters making the truck just stop running. I've heard, and maybe this ain't so, that the fuel cleaners help prevent this from happening. Can't hurt for only a couple more bucks.
Posted 2007-04-05 8:07 PM (#58624 - in reply to #58622) Subject: RE: diesel fuel conditioners
Location: Texas
I think I've said this before, but when we started getting the ULSD, my bulk distributor, who handles Chevron, suggested adding something, and I can't remember which one, to help with the lubrication and also the extra moisture in the fuel. I guess we are paying for more water. Anyway, it adds less than 2 cents/gal. and we have been using it since last fall. If you are interested in the name of the additive I can call them and find out.
Posted 2007-04-05 8:19 PM (#58626 - in reply to #58622) Subject: RE: diesel fuel conditioners
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Posts: 2689
Originally written by hav2ride on 2007-04-05 7:45 PM
I think I'll try it anyhow, Reg. II'm not as concerned about mileage as I am engine life. I've talked to a few people lately that have had trouble with clogged fuel filters making the truck just stop running. I've heard, and maybe this ain't so, that the fuel cleaners help prevent this from happening. Can't hurt for only a couple more bucks.
Huh ?
It can too hurt !
GENERALLY___ I'd rather have {whatever} precipitate out and clog the fuel filter than stay in solution and pass through to the engine.
My point was that the engine will outlast the rest of the truck ANYWAY.
Whether it outlasts it with 200,000 miles of life still in it, or 300,000
is of no practical interest, not to me anyway.
BTW, I have had exactly ONE instance of a partially clogged filter on the Duramax, it bothered the alarm system a lot more than the engine.
The symptom was the that engine alarm light would come on when pulling HARD on grades, but would re-set each time I turned the engine off.
I got the code read out at the first AutoZone I came across - THEN I remembered that I had meant to change it a while ago )-:
I have replaced my on the road spare filter, GM was actually cheaper than NAPA or AutoZone (who didn't have it in stock anyway).
Ya DO carry a spare filter and the tools to change it at roadside, doncha ?
;-)
Posted 2007-04-06 7:53 AM (#58641 - in reply to #58626) Subject: RE: diesel fuel conditioners
Expert
Posts: 1719 Location: PA
Actually, Reg, you are the only one I have talked to who thinks there could be a negative to it. The engine doesn't always outlast the body. My last (and I do mean LAST!!) Ford had injector problems from 12k on. Broke down 90% of the time. So that's why I am being cautious. As for carrying a fuel filter with me when I tow, I don't WANT to have stop on the side of the road to fix my truck with a 40' trailer on it, loaded with horses. I've been there, done that WAY too many times last year. It ain't fun!
Posted 2007-04-06 8:14 AM (#58642 - in reply to #58641) Subject: RE: diesel fuel conditioners
Expert
Posts: 2689
Originally written by hav2ride on 2007-04-06 7:53 AM
Actually, Reg, you are the only one I have talked to who thinks there could be a negative to it. The engine doesn't always outlast the body. My last (and I do mean LAST!!) Ford had injector problems from 12k on. Broke down 90% of the time. So that's why I am being cautious. As for carrying a fuel filter with me when I tow, I don't WANT to have stop on the side of the road to fix my truck with a 40' trailer on it, loaded with horses. I've been there, done that WAY too many times last year. It ain't fun!
I was only picking up on your assertion that fuel filters might clog more easily if you DON'T use an additive.
IF that is true... then I would rather have the filter stop the {whatever} than have an additive dissolve it and carry it through to the injectors.
I see filter changes as a GOOD thing for the engine, well worth the minor inconvenience of changing more often.
Ooops, did I just say "injectors" ?
What a coincidence, YOU have had injector problems.
I didn't have to change my filter at the roadside, I did it a day or two later. This is just something that I am prepared to do IF I have to. I can do it a lot quicker and be on my way than USRider can even get to me.
Congrats on your LAST {lets not mention it again} being your last.
Posted 2007-04-06 9:25 AM (#58645 - in reply to #58643) Subject: RE: diesel fuel conditioners
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Posts: 2689
Originally written by rockyrider on 2007-04-06 8:57 AM
Not sure what Reg is saying here?????????
But an once of prevention...........
Which part did you not understand ?
Stopping "stuff" from going through to your engine is generally good.
Filters stop "stuff".
Not stopping "stuff" is probably bad.
A clogged filter is some evidence that it has done it's job.
Filters that don't clog (at least partially) are probably not doing very much.
My conclusion is that any additive that reduces filter clogging is probably NOT good for the engine.
MY ounce of prevention is at the fuel filter, not in a "solution" that defeats the filter. {"solution" - pun}
Posted 2007-04-06 10:10 AM (#58649 - in reply to #58642) Subject: RE: diesel fuel conditioners
Expert
Posts: 1719 Location: PA
I talked with a man last year at Congress who told me that his truck stopped cold on the highway because his fuel filter was clogged. It was a newer (2006) truck and had the regular maintenance done, including the filter. The diesel mechanic friend said that clogged filters are becoming more prevalant because of the crappy oil we are getting. Who knows. I just know I don't want to be guessing on when to have the filter changed and I haul 95% of the time by myself. I am also NOT a mechanic and don't want to be one. Ruins my nails. :)
Posted 2007-04-06 3:34 PM (#58673 - in reply to #58649) Subject: RE: diesel fuel conditioners
Expert
Posts: 2689
Originally written by hav2ride on 2007-04-06 10:10 AM
I talked with a man last year at Congress who told me that his truck stopped cold on the highway because his fuel filter was clogged. It was a newer (2006) truck and had the regular maintenance done, including the filter. The diesel mechanic friend said that clogged filters are becoming more prevalant because of the crappy oil we are getting. Who knows. I just know I don't want to be guessing on when to have the filter changed and I haul 95% of the time by myself. I am also NOT a mechanic and don't want to be one. Ruins my nails. :)
OK, gottit.
I didn't meet that man at Congress last year, didn't hear his story, don't know his cred, etc.
Just a point of view I guess, but IF it really did come down to changing a filter at roadside vs letting the crud get through to the injectors, I'll take the damage to my nails (-:
In my case it was an early warning that I was able to take care of a day or two later. '03 Duramax for reference, other vehicles might give more warning or less. I'm on a better schedule now, changing the fuel filter at every alternate oil change.
If it works for you, then it works for you.
My background is different, my opinions are what they are as a result.
Mayhap we're both right and/or both wrong ?
Not wanting a fight over it, but I'm going with the filtering tactic (-:
Peace,
\R
EDIT;
PS There is another issue with diesel fuel filters, that is relevant to this thread.
Bio-diesel is known to "flush out" fuel tanks and lines, there is at least some belief that ULSD has a similar effect. Some of the reported filter clogging is a result of this.
Regardless of one's mechanical aptitude and beliefs, it is a fact that fuel filter clogging is a very real possibility that we should be prepared to face. I suggest/recommend that anyone driving a diesel carry a spare fuel filter at all times. If you want/need a breakdown service to replace it for you that is your choice, but just HAVING IT improves your odds of getting back on the road SOON.
;END EDIT
Posted 2007-04-06 5:03 PM (#58676 - in reply to #58335) Subject: RE: diesel fuel conditioners
Elite Veteran
Posts: 671 Location: THE GREAT NORTHWET, OREGON(THE REAL GODS COUNTRY)
Yup anything you use or dont use all boils down to prevenative maintence.Like not waiting till the factory time and miles to change anything.I changed my filters on My 06 ford and they were still in good shape,some rust but otherwise ok.There are 2 filters on the 06 and you want to change them both.They come in the same box.For what I pay for them it is cheap insurance and I hopefuly won't have to do it on the road.
If you also drain your filters into a clear container you can see if there are any particles of crap or water.
Like it was said, you don't want any dirt or water in your injection pump or injectors.Also pay attention to where you buy fuel.
I carry spare filters and additive.I think you should read the label on additives and see what they claim to do.Most say they increase cetain level,lubricate injectors etc.I would be carefull about any claims of passing water thru filters,the media on filters is designed to keep water out.
Most problems I have seen are because of poor maintenance.Plan ahead and take care of your equipment it will take care of you.
Posted 2007-04-06 7:11 PM (#58680 - in reply to #58673) Subject: RE: diesel fuel conditioners
Expert
Posts: 1719 Location: PA
Carrying a spare fuel filter is a good idea. I'll look into getting one (actually means, I ask my husband to pick one up). I used to carry a spare turbo clamp for the Ford. Dealers NEVER seem to have them in stock (probably because Fords go thru them so frequently!) and they are not that difficult to change. Still not going to change the fuel filter though!
Posted 2007-04-08 1:09 AM (#58786 - in reply to #58335) Subject: RE: diesel fuel conditioners
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 544 Location: Claxton, Ga.
I carry a spare filter and tools also on long trips. Never know when you are going to need it and it will be at the worst time. I also have a fuel pressure gauge after my filter so I can see if I have an issue with the filter or lift pump.
The best advice I can give you is fuel up at a station that moves large amounts of diesel fuel. They will tend to have to cleanest fuel.
Posted 2007-04-08 7:42 AM (#58790 - in reply to #58335) Subject: RE: diesel fuel conditioners
Veteran
Posts: 134 Location: Coarsegold, CA
When carrying a spare fuel filter, do you mean just the one next to the oil filter or the one on the frame rail? Q # 2 ) Is there an easy way to change that frame rail filter?No mechanic here, but I do most of my own Prev. Maint.
Posted 2007-04-08 8:01 AM (#58793 - in reply to #58790) Subject: RE: diesel fuel conditioners
Expert
Posts: 2689
Originally written by bechack on 2007-04-08 7:42 AM
When carrying a spare fuel filter, do you mean just the one next to the oil filter or the one on the frame rail? Q # 2 ) Is there an easy way to change that frame rail filter?No mechanic here, but I do most of my own Prev. Maint.
Without knowing what truck you have I can't answer that directly, although if you have TWO fuel filters I know it isn't an '03 GM (like mine).
I think someone just referred to "both" fuel filters on a ford as being sold together in a two pack - maybe that answers your question, just carry both if you have to buy them that way.
GENERALLY it will have a water drain on the bottom and some wires going to the head, for water level sensing and perhaps fuel heating.
Filters on frame rails are usually a BEAR to replace due to being so close to the ground. I don't know that there is an EASY way, other than doing a practice change on your driveway in fine weather and good daylight - or calling the breakdown service if it has to be done at the side of the road.
Posted 2007-04-08 1:52 PM (#58804 - in reply to #58335) Subject: RE: diesel fuel conditioners
Elite Veteran
Posts: 1160 Location: Denver Colorado
Ford finally listened for the 2008 diesel and put a water drain on the primary fuel filter (left frame rail across from tranny)They had a 6mm bolt you had to take out on all the 6.0L. Now there is a plastic lever you just turn like the 7.3L had on top. Ford recomends filter changes often, look in your manual, I think it's 10k miles. When the 6.0L Power Stroke first came out in 03, it confused alot of folks when the top fuel filter by the oil filter became the secondary fuel filter and the main one below in the frame rail with the water drain was the primary filter and didn't get changed because they didn't know about it, adding to the other problems of the 6.0L Power Stroke.
Posted 2007-04-08 2:41 PM (#58808 - in reply to #58804) Subject: RE: diesel fuel conditioners
Veteran
Posts: 134 Location: Coarsegold, CA
So on an '06 F350 CCD, there is no easy way to change the frame rail fuel filter and that is the primary one? I have not had the idiot light come on for the water in fuel filter but should I be draining it periodically before the idiot light comes on. The fuel filter recommendations are eery 15K.
Another PM question: how often do you all change your oil (and filter of course)???
I don't call roadside, I do it myself! Previous comment to that end was of no help at all.
Posted 2007-04-08 3:24 PM (#58810 - in reply to #58335) Subject: RE: diesel fuel conditioners
Elite Veteran
Posts: 1160 Location: Denver Colorado
On your year you can change the primary filter, it's just not as easy as the secondary filter on top. The primary heats the fuel at start up too and has several lines and wires to it. But the water drain is a pain. In Colorado we have allot of water condensation in the fuel tanks in the winter. So I drain mine once a month when cold. And you don't want to let your fuel tank run low in the winter for long periods of time. Lately I'm been letting the Ford shop or Grease Monkey change the fuel filters on my truck for $75 for both filters. Not cheap, but I'm getting lazy.
diesel fuel conditioners
