Anyway, I have a 2006 Saab SUV w/ the 8 cyl. engine and a 2-horse Merhow Verylite that weighs 1950 lbs.

Our horses are pretty large, both are approx. 1500 lbs.

I've used this combo for a few short hauls and knock wood, everything worked out well. BUT, two things, one is that I want to go 2+ hours away, AND I'd like a trailer w/ a real dressing room (doesn't have to be big). SO, I told hubby (who is not a horse person) that I've decided I need a pickup (after reading on this forum) to safely tow any trailer, but especially if I get a trailer w/ a dressing room.

Anyway, here's my main problem, I can't seem to explain to my husband why it is not as safe to tow with an SUV (esp. a smaller one like my Saab) as it is to tow with a pickup.

Would you all please explain this to us/him? I'll show him the responses I receive.

I'd like to trade my Saab in for a Ford F-150 Lariat (used) or a Lincoln Mark LT pickup. Now before you make fun of the Lincoln, the ONLY reason I'm considering it is because I have two and ONLY two must haves, one is a sunroof, the other is heated seats and I haven't seen that combo on many pickup trucks, except for the Lincoln. And my budget is $23,000 or less (I'm looking at 2005/2006 models, off lease w/ low miles and I've been able to find some Lincolns equipped the way I want).

Please, throw ALL your thoughts my way!Thanks!!

You might consider trading your trailer for the fancy Brenderup that has the dressing room;  it can be pulled easily with your Saab.......or trade off to a pickup with a nice gooseneck.....either way, you will help the economy and that is good!  

Personally, I feel way more secure pulling a gooseneck with my pick up than I ever did pulling a bp.  If I were going to go to a bp, I definitely would be looking at Brenderup since it is designed to be pulled with a 96 inch wheelbase 120 horsepower engine vehicle. 

Listing #  185089  is what I am talking about on the dressing room thing.......anyway, just a thought.

Are you wanting looks versus stabilty and stopping power? The power to stop quickly and safely is the main benefit of a truck versus SUV. I'm sure other posters will give you the sceintific reasons. :) There are numerous posts on here on the SUV debate. Just do a search for SUV to show hubby too.

I'd go with a 3/4 ton truck with a powerslider window instead of the sunroof and a 2 horse gooseneck. My ford truck has these options. Is this truck going to be your daily driver? If so, I'd keep the saab and just use the truck for towing. Before buying the truck ,determine first what you will be pulling. This will determine if a 1/2 ton will be sufficient.

There's going to be trash talk over this one !!!!

Generally speaking, the heavier and more rugged the tow vehicle, the more stable the tow vehicle will be. Generally speaking, the longer the tow vehicle's wheelbase, the more stable the tow vehicle will be. It is disputed whether a tow vehicle with an IRS, is less stable while towing than one with a solid rear axle.

The towing issue isn't as much about power, as it is the ability of the towing vehicle to always be in control of the towed vehicle. A lighter weight tow vehicle, under the right conditions, can end up being uncontrollably pushed in a maneuver called "the tail wagging the dog". It is a dangerous event, which is difficult to control and from which to recover.

Some people would be content with pulling with a mini Ute, others would only consider a sports truck. Most owners are somewhere in between. Many times, the loaded trailer weight will exceed the towing vehicle's weight. The towing vehicle, necessarily, has to be robust enough to handle the extra weight without a mechanical failure or endangering its inhabitants. 

The proper loading, mechanical conditions, and total weights are all considered by the towing vehicle's manufacturer. Use his specifications to determine the appropriate capabilities of his equipment. It takes some research to determine what you want and what you need. A general rule of thumb is to buy a little larger than your requirements, but not to go under. It is a large responsibility to be in charge of both your family's and pets' welfare, as well as everyone around you, whenever you take to the road.

You've taken the best first step. Question what you have, anticipate the future, and find out what has worked the best for other people. Do an average with their responses. Throw out the lows and highs, and see what most of the respondents have done that has worked well. You will start to see a pattern.

Searches under "what can I tow with......". are numerous and on going. It's an age old question.

Best of luck.  Gard

This isn't the answer I thought I would be giving based on your posting title, but I wouldn't necessarily rule out a little bigger SUV.   Before you start shopping, find out what your trailer weighs loaded to the gills (or one similar to the one you would be purchasing), with absolutely everything you think you might haul.  Then take that figure and start weeding out tow vehicles with an acceptable towing capacity.  You will find such SUV's as Ford Excursions and the 3/4 ton platform Chevy Suburban are more than capable of towing your proposed setup.   You might even find that Ford Expeditions and the 1/2 ton platform Chevy Suburban or Tahoe are also rated to tow what you describe.   At least one mention on this list has been made of towing with a Cadillac Escalade.   The bigger Toyota SUV's might also be a consideration.  But it comes down to towing capacity for the individual vehicle.

Excursions and 3/4T Suburbans will have very similar towing capacities as a 3/4T pickup.  Expeditions, Tahoes, and Escalades will have similar towing capacities as the 1/2T trucks you are considering.  

Someone earlier mentioned that the heavier and longer wheelbase the towing rig, the more stability you will have.   Can't argue that.  I had the opportunity to borrow a friend's 2h slant load recently and even with 2 horses it was a very pleasant easy tow behind my F350 dually.  An F350 dually is way overkill for a 2h bumper pull trailer, but its primary job is to tow my 3h LQ trailer.

If I was just pulling a 2h bumper pull, I'd probably own an Excursion myself.  No need to give up the amenities of an SUV just to upgrade your towing vehicle, IMHO.

Forgot to add, that the Ford and Chevy SUV's probably have seat warmers as an option.  My F350 has them.  If not, they can be added aftermarket.  I wouldn't rule out a vehicle because they don't have them. 

Dmarr.. Is this the Saab your driving? A 9-7X, with the 300hp 5.3 GM V8 gasoline engine? It looks pretty much like a rebadged Chevy Trailblazer. Your towing capacity with the V8 is 6500 pounds... Looks to like your good with what you got... Unless you just want a truck.

http://www.autosite.com/content/shared/articles/templates/index.cfm/article_id_int/1581

All he sees is the number on the specs that the vehicle can tow, ie, if my Saab can tow 6500 lbs., trailer weighs only 1950, horses are 1500-3000 lbs (depending on 1 or 2 horses), saddles weigh 50 lbs, etc, etc, we're still under the 6500 lbs the Saab is rated to pull. But I know there are other factors which I am vague on since I'm not a mechanic type (things like rear axle ratio, braking capacity of tow vehicle, etc.) since I'm hazy on these things I can't explain them to hubby.

I've had a Brenderup before and while it was nice I feel I can get more trailer for less $$ with a more 'traditional' trailer. To be honest, I just can't afford one, even the used ones are expensive.

Whatever SUV or PU I get will be my daily driver, I can't have a daily driver AND a truck. My Saab gets horrible gas mileage (ave. 14.6 city) so I'm not worried about that.

What I was looking for was one concise answer from an expert on this forum to show Hubby. BUT if my current set-up is OK, then I guess I didn't need to write this post. BUT, I'd still like a bigger tack area, my Merhow is a walk through w/ mangers and saddle racks under the mangers, it kills my back to bend/crouch over and try and lift the saddles on/off the racks so I end up putting the saddles in the back of my Saab!

Basically I want to be as safe as possible since I haul by myself most of the time. There is an event coming up that is 2.5 hours drive (one way) that I'd like to go to and I started worrying (after reading all the other posts about towing w/ small SUV's) that I wouldn't be safe going that distance.

Thanks!

I tried to be generic in my previous posting. I have had a bad situation while towing, and I didn't want it to sway your decision. If you're talking about switching out your whole rig, my event may be apropos.

I had a Ford Expedition with a 5.4 litre, trailer towing package and a towing capacity of 7K#. I pulled a 3H BP trailer that weighed aprox 3400#. After about a year and a half and many thousands of miles, we were complacent with its towing capabilities. While returning from MI with a new mare and foal, at about 60 mph, we were involved in a traffic avoidance maneuver. Out rig ended up oscillating across three lanes of traffic, from shoulder to shoulder, completely out of control for the better part of a mile.

Hooking up the same trailer to our truck, and driving many more miles and several more years, we have had similar situations, but never the same results. Given a choice, I personally would not go back to a SUV.

Many new half tons are rated for at least 9k of towing and offer 20 mpg. They are comfortable, more versatile as far as towing and carrying capabilities, and you shouldn't out grow them as quickly. They are good every day drivers. Many people pull a 2H or 3H GN with a dressing room with this rig. A 3/4 ton offers larger capacities, but your mileage will suffer.

A truck, set up with a proper brake controller and towing package, is a stable and proven platform, that will haul safely all day long. If you are going to only stay with a BP, I will echo what was previously said about an Excursion or Suburban. They are the heaviest constructed and longest wheel base SUVs available. However, I don't believe the Excursion is made any more, the longer Expedition is its replacement. Neither of these will give you a significant amount of mileage in day to day driving.

Just my 2 cents

Gard

Now, if he wants to scare his own horse that's his problem..........

 That's a good idea!! You'll know he had a good ride, if he needs a change of cloths when you open the trailer door when you get home!!!

Or is there more to it than that? What about the type of rear springs, rear axle, etc. the tow vehicle has?

Is there no simple answer to my question?

Thanks!

The key is, with a pickup truck, you'll want an extended cab to get a good length in your wheelbase. It's also about the WIDTH.

Passenger vehicles (SUVs) have soft suspension, when pressure of any kind is exerted against that suspension, it sways (goes up down, back and forth, etc.). It's what gives pass vehicles a nice ride.  With vehicles built for towing, there is much less sway. In fact, driving my F150 down a bumpy road with nothing in the bed and not towing, it bounces down the road because the suspension is very tight and hard. once I load it, then engages the suspension.

If you have a dog, take it for a ride. As your hubby whips around corners, stops hard, and accelerates hard, the dog will be pushed off balance.  Same thing with a horse in the trailer.

Maybe you can buy a book to show him. I suggest either - or both - Neva & Tom Scheve's book "Guide to Buying, Maintaining, and Servicing a horse trailer" and Cherry Hill's Guide to Horse Trailering or Trailering your Horse or something like that. 

I usually drive an 06 Dodge 2500, regular cab long bed; diesel;  imo the 5.4 l I had in the F150 (pulling a bp) did not have the power in the 1/2 ton pu to avoid problems, and I could feel every move the horses made.....in the bigger Dodge, with the gooseneck trailer, I do not feel the critters moving about.  My Dodge gets 20+ mpg not towing, drops to @16 depending on my load.  I did not get the Laramie so do not have heated seats;  but the dually has them.

I agree that the bigger trucks are quite nice, and I love mine, so if you want a truck, get one, but get a big one.......and get a diesel.......and 4x4........and as a female person pulling or driving by myself from time to time, I feel much safer in the Dodge 3/4 than the 1/2 ton truck.

I think one thing that is overlooked in the comparison between the two vehicles, is the type of tires with which they are equipped. The suspension for most SUVs is tuned for a comfortable highway ride, and a longer articulation whenever off road conditions are encountered.

My Expedition weighed ~5500#s empty, seated 7 and carried a fuel load of 30 gallons. I don't know the automotive standards, but the aircraft folks put the average weight of a passenger at 160#. (Jay Leno figures that most are at least double that amount.) If you add 1120# in passengers and 180#s in fuel, you have a total weight of about 6800#s. The Ford was equipped with R 265-70-16" passenger four ply rated tires. I don't know their actual load rating, but at that weight, they had to be at or above their maximum load capacity.

Many people believe that a 2H BP trailer is the lightest available for pulling with a marginal tow vehicle. As Richard Smith has said, the tongue weight will be determined by where the trailer's manufacturer placed the axles. If they are located in the extreme rear of the trailer, a straight load trailer will then place the horse's weight between the axles and the hitch.

One poster said that when he loads his 2H BP trailer, the tongue weight jumps to 900#, and the suspension collapses onto the axle stop bumpers. Another poster has stated that when he loads his 3H BP with a single horse in the front stall, ( the same affect as with the two horse) his air suspension is able to support the additional weight and he has a level ride.

Where does all this weight end up? On the tires. It doesn't matter if the vehicle is level or not, it's still being supported by the tires. Trucks typically come equipped with heavier duty tires, made for carrying loads. The stiffer ride on a truck, would be considered unacceptable to the soccer mom who is driving her SUV to the store.

A 2h BP trailer does not always offer the lightest tongue weight. Many three horse BP trailers can be loaded to produce less, and are a viable alternative. You do not have to use all the weight capacity of which a trailer is capable of carrying.

Gard

By Federal law the OEM tire have to meet the axle weight ratings.  Which some of know that when added together will be more than the GVWR on class 6 or smaller trucks.  A 265/70/16 4 ply tire will have a load rating of almost 2200#, so in your load scenario they would be closer to 75% than "at or above their maximum load capacity".

Being the "poster" whose 900# hits the bump stops I should probably chime in.  This Saab appears to be basically the same vehicle as my Trailblazer, except for the Saab having the V8.  I should also mention that when using the PROPER equipment, a weight distributing hitch, the tongue weight no longer caused the bump stops to be involved.  The 900# was distributed as an increase of ~500# to the trucks rear axle and ~300# back to the trailers axle.  This provided nearly 50%/50% weight distribution on the Trailblazer's axles with no need for a "creatively" loaded 3 horse BP.  I weighed in right at the GVWR, and safely under the axle ratings.

"Creative" loading can very easily lead to the above mentioned incident, "ended up oscillating across three lanes of traffic, from shoulder to shoulder, completely out of control for the better part of a mile".

Use of proper equipment, namely the WDH and sway control, will effective bridge the gap between a smaller and larger tow vehicle when used within the vehicle's limits.  While I am able to run my 2500HD and this 2h BP without a WDH, should I approach the 15,000# towing limits with this truck the WDH would again become necessary.

Thanks for all of your answers, I can't decide if I'm more confused now than when I first posted the question

Yes, the Saab SUV is basically the Trailblazer, they are 'cousins' and are very similar.

On the one hand we have folks saying that SUV's like my Saab aren't suitable for towing because of the softer/bouncier suspension, on the other hand, one person has said I could tow a larger trailer w/ it.

As far as my driving abilities, I don't know how to rate that. I do know that I drive very carefully when trailering my 'baby', I want him to be comfortable and enjoy going places. I stay in the right or middle lane on the highway, rarely pass (I let folks pass me) and stay at the posted speed limit or below it, depending on road/traffic conditions. I basically try to stay away from everyone which is hard, if I keep a good distance between myself and the car ahead of me, someone inevitably pulls into that spot.

I creep around turns and up to stops and accelerate very slowly.

So far, the two trips I've used the Saab to tow the Merhow with, it's done a great job, better (in my opinion) then my brothers Ford F-150 w/ the small 8 cyl. engine. My bro's Ford seemed to struggle a bit at times but w/ the Saab I didn't really feel the trailer at all (this is w/ a 1500 lb. Draft cross and a 1000 lb. TB in it).

I have the newest model of the Prodigy (recommended on this site) but I do not have WDH or sway bars. My Merhow has a very long tongue, much longer then what I've seen on other 2-horse BP trailers.

After talking all of this over w/ my hubby he thinks we should look for a used Brenderup, but the last post suggested I could haul more trailer w/ my Saab.

What's a girl to do?

Basically I'd like more room for my horse (he looks a bit cramped to me), better airflow and a differently designed tack area. That's why I thought I'd need a different vehicle, but maybe I don't? If I could get a different trailer, not have to pay for a Brenderup AND not have to get a different tow vehicle, that would be great! And that's what I'm trying to figure out.

Like I said, I'm more confused now!

I contacted 4Star and gave them the VIN, they were VERY helpful and faxed me the original build sheet for this trailer, it has the weight, dimensions, etc.

But after adding up the trailer weight, horses, tack, people, hay, etc. I was afraid I was too close to the 6500 lbs. my Saab can tow.

Also, the tongue on this trailer is VERY short, at least compared to my current Merhow. Can you all explain the significance of tongue length? Does it affect towing? If so how?

Thanks!