Posted 2005-07-07 10:28 AM (#27734) Subject: Breakaway brake cable
Veteran
Posts: 202 Location: North Texas
What's the right amount of "play" to have in the cable that activates the breakaway brake? The cable on mine appears to be so long that (heaven forbid) if the GN came loose it wouldn't activate the brakes until the gooseneck had slammed against/through the tailgate.
Posted 2005-07-07 10:59 AM (#27736 - in reply to #27734) Subject: RE: Breakaway brake cable
Expert
Posts: 1416 Location: sc
my understanding is it should be basically the same length as the "pigtail" electrical connector. when the pigtail is disconnected, in a lost trailer situation, then you in the truck no longer have control of the trailer brakes, hence the emergency breakaway activation.
Posted 2005-07-07 10:00 PM (#27761 - in reply to #27734) Subject: RE: Breakaway brake cable
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 402 Location: Lockport, Illinois
Lets face it, it your gooseneck should become detached, it will then be resting on your pickups bed, ruining it. If the cable is short, then the brakes would be applied on the trailer, stopping the trailer as you are going forward, taking your tail gate as the trailer brakes are applied. The only winner when the breakaway brakes cable is used is the trailer and its contents, the trailer should skid to a stop. I would rather replace the box on my pickup that replace a horse.
Posted 2005-07-08 9:44 AM (#27777 - in reply to #27734) Subject: RE: Breakaway brake cable
Expert
Posts: 1719 Location: PA
It should be long enough to not be pulled out if you make hard turns but short enough that it still can activated quickly. Mine is about the length of my safety chains.
Posted 2005-07-08 3:30 PM (#27795 - in reply to #27736) Subject: RE: Breakaway brake cable
Expert
Posts: 2689
Originally written by chadsalt on 2005-07-07 10:59 AM
my understanding is it should be basically the same length as the "pigtail" electrical connector. when the pigtail is disconnected, in a lost trailer situation, then you in the truck no longer have control of the trailer brakes, hence the emergency breakaway activation.
Thanks for that insight.
I'll admit to never having given this as much thought as I probably should have. As long as it was independantly connected to the vehicle I didn't worry about it. Yes, it is probably a VERY good idea to have the trailer brakes activated about the same time as the wiring connector comes undone. Never mind if the safety chains are still holding on, I'd like the trailer to start slowing itself down as soon as the wiring connector pulls loose.
Tailgates don't matter at times like this, neither does bed damage, just get to a safe stop.
Posted 2005-07-08 3:44 PM (#27797 - in reply to #27734) Subject: RE: Breakaway brake cable
Elite Veteran
Posts: 634 Location: Tipton, IN
A very related story from two weeks ago. My neighbors son Zach(25yr old) forgot to lock the hitch on the ball on dads truck. This is a 36ft Hillsboro dovetail with very little pin weight while empty. The gooseneck went straight through the bed as he went over a rise/intersection too fast and it came off the ball. He had hooked the breakaway but it never activated as the trailer was sitting on the truck frame and thru the bed when all was said and done. So I would imagine in a bounce type situation you'd see the same type of situation with a horse trailer and standard pick up bed. As for Reg, with a flatbed it might be built a little tougher than a Dodge/GM/Ford factory bed. Scarry to think of it ever happening. I think I need to check my breakaway battery when I get home today.
Posted 2005-07-08 4:29 PM (#27800 - in reply to #27795) Subject: RE: Breakaway brake cable
Expert
Posts: 1416 Location: sc
Originally written by Reg on 2005-07-08 4:30 PM
Originally written by chadsalt on 2005-07-07 10:59 AM my understanding is it should be basically the same length as the "pigtail" electrical connector. when the pigtail is disconnected, in a lost trailer situation, then you in the truck no longer have control of the trailer brakes, hence the emergency breakaway activation.
Thanks for that insight. I'll admit to never having given this as much thought as I probably should have. As long as it was independantly connected to the vehicle I didn't worry about it. Yes, it is probably a VERY good idea to have the trailer brakes activated about the same time as the wiring connector comes undone. Never mind if the safety chains are still holding on, I'd like the trailer to start slowing itself down as soon as the wiring connector pulls loose. Tailgates don't matter at times like this, neither does bed damage, just get to a safe stop.
true, all that matters is a safe stop.
as for the saftey chains, i keep mine adjusted a touch shorter than the pigtail/breakaway cable, that way if the trailer comes off the ball hopefully the chains will keep it attached to the truck(some control is better than none), with the brakes still under my control. if the chains/entire hitch comes lose then the emergency breakaway comes into play.
Posted 2005-07-08 5:06 PM (#27802 - in reply to #27797) Subject: RE: Breakaway brake cable
Expert
Posts: 2689
Originally written by efaubert1 on 2005-07-08 3:44 PM
A very related story from two weeks ago. My neighbors son Zach(25yr old) forgot to lock the hitch on the ball on dads truck. This is a 36ft Hillsboro dovetail with very little pin weight while empty. The gooseneck went straight through the bed as he went over a rise/intersection too fast and it came off the ball. He had hooked the breakaway but it never activated as the trailer was sitting on the truck frame and thru the bed when all was said and done. So I would imagine in a bounce type situation you'd see the same type of situation with a horse trailer and standard pick up bed. As for Reg, with a flatbed it might be built a little tougher than a Dodge/GM/Ford factory bed. Scarry to think of it ever happening. I think I need to check my breakaway battery when I get home today.
I don't think it would make much difference, if any.
The cross frame plate thinggie is supposedly rated for 30,000 lbs (I assume TOWED weight, not hitch load), but a disconnected coupler rattling around - - Oh, if it stayed in the outline of the trap door I might have a slightly better chance of getting only mildly wrecked. Though I guess you'd be equally "secure" if it punched through the bed of a pickup and just stayed there...
Reminder to Self: Double check the coupler latch at every hook-up - AGAIN !
Posted 2005-07-08 6:17 PM (#27806 - in reply to #27734) Subject: RE: Breakaway brake cable
Veteran
Posts: 233 Location: Tennessee
to efaubert1 - how do you go about checking the battery on the break away brakes? I had one added to my steel trailer and the installer said it would stay charged from my truck battery but how do I make sure? Thanks.
Posted 2005-07-08 9:25 PM (#27811 - in reply to #27808) Subject: RE: Breakaway brake cable
Expert
Posts: 2689
Originally written by tobruk on 2005-07-08 7:15 PM
You can pull the plug and see if the wheels lock up. Best way is to jack it up so you can check each wheel separately.
Pulling the pin once in a while is a good idea anyway, they get stuck, replace with a shot of WD40.
My quick and dirty test is whether the trailer will hold back the truck on my slightly inclined driveway. Once in a while I'll actually put the truck in gear and pull the trailer to check that all 4 wheels are locked, maybe once a year and only for a few (6 or 8 ?) inches.
Posted 2005-07-09 12:27 PM (#27828 - in reply to #27734) Subject: RE: Breakaway brake cable
Member
Posts: 16
Location: SC
Humm! never thought about that very much. Our breakaway cable reaches to the ball. It has a built in loop so we just hook it over the ball before we lower the trailer. As this is our first gooseneck we just assumed that was the place to put it. What do ya think?????? Our cable is about the same length as the chains I guess so I believe everything would start to kick in at about the same time. Should we be hooking it somewhere else???????? Thanks
Posted 2005-07-09 12:56 PM (#27831 - in reply to #27828) Subject: RE: Breakaway brake cable
Expert
Posts: 1416 Location: sc
Originally written by bits on 2005-07-09 1:27 PM
Humm! never thought about that very much. Our breakaway cable reaches to the ball. It has a built in loop so we just hook it over the ball before we lower the trailer. As this is our first gooseneck we just assumed that was the place to put it. What do ya think?????? Our cable is about the same length as the chains I guess so I believe everything would start to kick in at about the same time. Should we be hooking it somewhere else???????? Thanks
it should be hooked to the "frame" of the tow vehicle. hopefully a part that will remain with the tow vehicle in the event of ball and saftey chain attachment point failure.
Posted 2005-07-09 1:11 PM (#27836 - in reply to #27828) Subject: RE: Breakaway brake cable
Expert
Posts: 2689
Originally written by bits on 2005-07-09 12:27 PM
Humm! never thought about that very much. Our breakaway cable reaches to the ball. It has a built in loop so we just hook it over the ball before we lower the trailer. As this is our first gooseneck we just assumed that was the place to put it. What do ya think?????? Our cable is about the same length as the chains I guess so I believe everything would start to kick in at about the same time. Should we be hooking it somewhere else???????? Thanks
I may have misunderstood this, but I think it is a BAD idea to just loop the cable over the ball and then put the coupler down over it.
Mine also has a loop formed in the end, I route it through one of the safety chain loops on the truck, bring the loop back to the cable and connect it with a small chain link connector (probably the wrong name, it is a link with a long nut in it that is used to close the link).
I think the theory is that the breakaway cable needs to NOT come away from the vehicle if/when the coupler does. If I understand your post correctly, there is a (slight) chance that if the coupler broke or the nut dropped off the ball's shank and the ball came out - the cable would all leave with the trailer.
I know the probabilities of failure are low, but they ARE non-zero, so the back-up needs to be GOOD, because the consequences of primary and back-up failure could be VERY BAD !
I *_MIGHT_* take my cable through one truck safety chain loop and over to the other one to secure it, just to loose some excess length. I'll see how it all looks the next time I hook up.
Posted 2005-07-09 2:15 PM (#27841 - in reply to #27836) Subject: RE: Breakaway brake cable
Expert
Posts: 1416 Location: sc
Originally written by Reg on 2005-07-09 2:11 PM
I *_MIGHT_* take my cable through one truck safety chain loop and over to the other one to secure it, just to loose some excess length. I'll see how it all looks the next time I hook up.
reg, on the theory of trailer separation, all the info ive read/understood, make it a point to say "frame". the saftey chain loops may also leave with the trailer, of course then we really are discussing a disaster.
Posted 2005-07-09 8:49 PM (#27848 - in reply to #27808) Subject: RE: Breakaway brake cable
Member
Posts: 23
I make sure my BA cable is VERY long, free of any hangups such as running through any chain links, and I hook the cable to the vehicle itself. It should be the last-gasp holdback mechanism. I have my chains, electrical cable, and BA cable of such lengths that if the coupler pops off the ball the chains will go tight but the electrical and BA will stay slack (connected and disengaged, respectively). If the chains go, I do NOT want my BA kicking in because I might be able to modulate the controller and the truck brakes to bring things to a stop cleanly (plus, backfeeding a controller can toast it, leaving you SOL brake-wise if you are able to get things put back in order). Finally, if things have gone totally haywire and the coupler is on its way out the back of the truck despite the chains, and the only thing left to stop it is the BA, then I want the electrical to pull out of the 7-way FIRST, BEFORE the BA engages, in order to protect the controller; therefore I run a somewhat-short electrical cable, shorter than the BA cable. Hope this helps. KS.
Posted 2005-07-11 8:31 AM (#27883 - in reply to #27734) Subject: RE: Breakaway brake cable
Veteran
Posts: 225 Location: Kansas City
A lot of good things to ponder. However, all of these really apply to slow moving or parking lot like settings. BA would keep your trailer from rolling away from your truck, etc.
In my worthless opinion, they are a feature that the gov requires like electric eyes on garage door openers. Have to have them. In the event of any type of highway speed accident where your trailer detached from the tow vehicle - VERY BAD things are going to happen. Locking the trailer brakes will not stop a 60 mph trailer full of horses. The trailer will not continue down the highway and slow to a stop. The nose/tongue will hit the pavement. The trailer will veer some way besides straight and will drop a tire off the pavement which will cause the trailer to hit the ditch and with any type of drop off will cause a roll over.
All of that said, I am careful to hook mine to the frame of my truck and use it because it came with the trailer. It can't hurt but I don't see how it would really help at any road speed.
Posted 2005-07-11 11:46 AM (#27894 - in reply to #27841) Subject: RE: Breakaway brake cable
Expert
Posts: 2689
Originally written by chadsalt on 2005-07-09 2:15 PM
Originally written by Reg on 2005-07-09 2:11 PM
I *_MIGHT_* take my cable through one truck safety chain loop and over to the other one to secure it, just to loose some excess length. I'll see how it all looks the next time I hook up.
reg, on the theory of trailer separation, all the info ive read/understood, make it a point to say "frame". the saftey chain loops may also leave with the trailer, of course then we really are discussing a disaster.
If we disagree and and you're right - then I must be.... DANG !
OK, it is theoretically POSSIBLE for the safety chain loops to tear off that big thick plate that spans the frame rails, though my understanding of s.o.m. is that the chains would likely break first. I'll go with the following sequence of things IF the coupler or neck somehow fails;
a) Electrical 7-pin connector pulls out.
b) Brake breakaway activates.
bi) According to how things land the chains could still be slack.
c) Trailer tries to slow truck.
I don't know if the chains would hold or not, presumably their "rating" says they should.
d) Bad things happen - e.g. I have a major panic attack.
e) MayBE I slam hard on the truck's brakes.
f) Trailer doesn't come through truck cab - trailer is braking, chains MIGHT still be intact, etc.
There are no ill effects of back feeding the controller (only $100 - 200), since the 7 pin connector will already be open circuit at this time anyway. Damage to truck bed, tailgate (I don't have one) etc. would be an incidental.
I want the whole rig to come to as controlled of a stop as possible.
Again, double checking that coupler and it's latch should make all of this moot.
RE Seperated truck and trailer at highway speeds: Yes, it is possible.
I think it is more likely that the remains of the coupler post would imbed somewhere in the truck's bed and hold it there. In most cases I think the chances of a better outcome are only improved by activating the breakaway brake system as early as possible.
Posted 2005-07-11 12:40 PM (#27902 - in reply to #27734) Subject: RE: Breakaway brake cable
Expert
Posts: 1391 Location: North of Detroit, MI
TO help anyone who has now become afraid of something similar happening to them, I'll give you my "tip".
I have **7** things I do for hookup. I count each one off everytime.
1. Lock the coupler on the ball and be sure the handle is properly seated/latched. 2. Attach right safety chain. 3. Attach left safety chain. 4. Connect BA cable. 5. Attach Electrical and check lights. 6. Raise foot and lock. 7. Remove wheel chocks.
I tick them off... If you want, you can add 2 additional steps - lower tailgate and close tailgate. That step is MOST critical when unhooking.
Posted 2005-07-11 3:17 PM (#27916 - in reply to #27902) Subject: RE: Breakaway brake cable
Expert
Posts: 2689
Gabz,
Good check-list/routine.
Generally checklists and routines are good things. At first so you don't miss/forget anything and later so your confidence doesn't become complacency.
I'm trying to impose (on myself) an extra circle check of truck, trailer, horses, at the end of the driveway when leaving home or someone else's barn and at the exit gate when leaving an event. Y'know, all the truck and trailer stuff PLUS ramps up and latched, windows and vents right for the expected temps in the next hour or so, eveything stowed, nothing left hanging on the fence, etc.
PS manure all picked up - I almost forgot, better go back to that gas station and get it... (-:
PPS How about: " 6a) Fold and stow crank handle" ?
or did you get the electric jack ?
It might have been you I saw on I-75 up around Troy last year (-:
Posted 2005-07-11 3:32 PM (#27917 - in reply to #27734) Subject: RE: Breakaway brake cable
Elite Veteran
Posts: 634 Location: Tipton, IN
I'd like to see the testing they did with breakaways that makes the government think they are really going to stop it before the coupler plowing throught the pavement at 60mph. Where is the footage, it has to exist and I really would be interested in seeing just how they performed with 11,000 pounds(with weight added in the back for horses, not real ones!) of rolling stock.
Posted 2005-07-11 4:50 PM (#27927 - in reply to #27916) Subject: RE: Breakaway brake cable
Expert
Posts: 1391 Location: North of Detroit, MI
I guess you can make a 6a and 7b... (no electric jack) - but I just stow the crank handle when I'm finished cranking up the jack foot.
The walk around. Part of my electric check is to drive forward and back up a few times to "warm up" the trailer brakes and make sure I've got orange tinge on my brake controller before I load the horse(s). But with your situation, you don't always have an empty trailer to start with.
And, after I have loaded, I make one last potty run, come out and do the walk around. Even when camping and sleeping in the trailer, I always do the 7-point check. Just in case someone fiddled with something.
hmmm.... I avoid I-75 at ALL costs... although I was on there through the construction zone up by Flint, the day after I got my GN, and I was hauling live animals on it for the first time... I had to squirm through that lovely construction zone - with the narrow lanes and 3' high concrete barriers on both sides of the lane... PHEW... that was a TEST of my GN driving abilities - let me tell you!
Posted 2005-07-11 5:50 PM (#27929 - in reply to #27917) Subject: RE: Breakaway brake cable
Expert
Posts: 1416 Location: sc
Originally written by efaubert1 on 2005-07-11 4:32 PM
I'd like to see the testing they did with breakaways that makes the government think they are really going to stop it before the coupler plowing throught the pavement at 60mph. Where is the footage, it has to exist and I really would be interested in seeing just how they performed with 11,000 pounds(with weight added in the back for horses, not real ones!) of rolling stock.
i would like to see it too, but the break away system has to be better than nothing. i doubt a gn would make it to far by itself, but a bp might "ski" a fair distance especially if it had a wheel on the jack. maybe?
Posted 2005-07-11 5:55 PM (#27930 - in reply to #27734) Subject: RE: Breakaway brake cable
Elite Veteran
Posts: 634 Location: Tipton, IN
I agree it's better than nothing just would like to see what one might really be able to expect in the situation. We can all see video of what every angle of your car getting blasted looks like from NHTSB, and you get a feel for just how serious it can be. But I don't think, thank God to many of us have seen a runaway trailer incident.