Posted 2006-03-11 12:08 AM (#38642) Subject: Adjusting gooseneck heigth
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Posts: 57 Location: Casa Grande Arizona
I would like to adjust the GN on my trailer. I've got 4.5 " between the trailer and my truck. It scares me to death. Is it something I can do with impact tools or should this be done by a trailer place? I'm also wondering what is the best distance between my trailer and truck. I've heard 6" but that doesn't seem like much. I saw a trailer yesterday that was 12" between the truck and trailer and that looked much better to me.
Keep in mind that I'm probably going to take the trailer places most won't or shouldn't. I need to get back into places that are rough sometimes for my dog trials.
Posted 2006-03-11 6:52 AM (#38644 - in reply to #38642) Subject: RE: Adjusting gooseneck height
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Posts: 2689
I have less than that between my trailer and truck's (stake) sides, though I havn't measured it with a tape. Given that my hand is 3 1/2 inches across at the knuckles - about that.
Yes, I really DO cross some rough ground and there are some turns at brows where the trailer and truck come closest to each other.
To your question: It is USUALLY a simple matter to loosen the locknuts and then the set screws. Do one first and snug it back up while you do the other one, coz if you loosen one completely and the other one loosens quickly you might have to pick the coupler off your foot (-:
Beware the: "Now I got lotsa clearance at the truck end, but it looks like I'll have to block up the trailer's wheels or put BIG tires on it" syndrome.
Posted 2006-03-11 8:24 AM (#38647 - in reply to #38642) Subject: RE: Adjusting gooseneck heigth
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Posts: 1205 Location: Danielsville Georgia
Well I have about 5 inches or so and just on paved roads with a sizeable dip I've hit my tailgate.Not enough to damage it but left marks on the tailgate protector.My trailer sits to nose high as it is.Scares me to death to get off road with it the way it is.Thought about loweering rear of truck but holding off for a newer trailer etc.
Posted 2006-03-11 11:41 AM (#38655 - in reply to #38642) Subject: RE: Adjusting gooseneck height
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This question comes up a lot and it is not the first time it has been tied to the question of raising the trailer.
Given that I'm NUTS anyway my conclusions might be useless, or even dangerous.
Disclaimer: I'm NUTS, did I say that already ?
Anyway, following any suggestions here would be entirely at your own risk, I am not a trailer engineer, etc.
I tried a bit of arithmetic on my trailer,
Axles are spaced about 3ft apart, 36 inches (914.4 mm) for this arithmetic.
From their center point to the coupler is 388 inches.
If I extend the coupler by 1 inch it changes the "pitch" of the trailer by 1:388 which might seem insignificant - and it probably is.
IF tire loading is a concern there are a few ways to address that.
a) Block up (both) the axles - by the same amount as the coupler is extended.
b) Block up only the front axle - by some amount less than the coupler's extension.
c) Put bigger tires on all wheels, with an increase in radius of about the coupler's extension.
d) Put bigger tires on only the front axle's wheels.
e) Some combination of the above.
a and c have been kicked around here before (many times), they bring the trailer more level, but require INCHES of change.
b and d are simple ratios;
For blocking only the front axle.
1:388 applied to 36 inches = 0.093, a bit under 1/10 th inch.
Gee, SHIMS would be enough if I only needed to adjust the coupler an inch or two.
For bigger tires on the front axle only I'll work it backwards, since tire sizes jump in 1cm increments. A 1cm increase in width on a 85 aspect tire would raise the front axle's center 8 1/2 mm. That would change the pitch of the 36 inch axle spacing
36 X 25.4 / 8.5 = 107.6::1
Equivalent to 388/107.6 = ~3.6 inches at the coupler.
So, if any of this holds together... (-:
Going up to (for example) a 245 from a 235 tire on the front axle ONLY would offset the effect of extending the coupler about 3 1/2 inches.
This on a 30ft on the floor trailer that has the axles set "well back".
The effect would be greater on shorter trailers, i.e. the 1:388 ratio would be smaller.
Ahhh YES - the errors.
There is rounding, approximations and an ASSUMPTION that the front tires are run at the right pressure - which probably wouldn't be quite the same as the rear narrower tires.
Somebody check the arithmetic and assumptions, I did this as I typed.
I don't think there would be a legal issue of running different sized tires, after all you would be upsizing with a corresponding increase in load capacity, though only on one axle.
Posted 2006-03-11 1:18 PM (#38657 - in reply to #38642) Subject: RE: Adjusting gooseneck heigth
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Posts: 333
Are GNs subject to the same rules as BPs? I know I work hard to get my trailers level as it is good for both the truck and horses in the trailer.
Is it not as important to have a level trailer when using a GN? I see lots of them nose high when I am hauling, as a MOF, my friends is also that way now that she bought a new truck that must be higher in the bed than her old one.
What truly is the most important.. both GN and BP wise?
Posted 2006-03-11 2:34 PM (#38659 - in reply to #38657) Subject: RE: Adjusting gooseneck height
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Originally written by Jbsny on 2006-03-11 2:18 PM
Are GNs subject to the same rules as BPs? I know I work hard to get my trailers level as it is good for both the truck and horses in the trailer.
Is it not as important to have a level trailer when using a GN? I see lots of them nose high when I am hauling, as a MOF, my friends is also that way now that she bought a new truck that must be higher in the bed than her old one.
What truly is the most important.. both GN and BP wise?
Jbsny
I think "level" is somewhat overated.
In the example I just went through we're only dealing with pitch changes of about 1:388 per inch of coupler height. Roads aren't "level".
Given that we (most of us) accelerate somewhat slower than we brake, the more up-pitch the better WRT the horses' comfort.
Posted 2006-03-11 3:01 PM (#38661 - in reply to #38642) Subject: RE: Adjusting gooseneck heigth
Regular
Posts: 57 Location: Casa Grande Arizona
I don't know if I really care if the trailer is level going down the road. I'm pretty sure that the road isn't level most of the time so I don't think it makes a difference. Now once I get to the end I'll level the trailer out.
I'm more concerned with there being a problem with a 12" gap between my truck and trailer. I guess if I don't care if my trailer isn't perfectly level then it should be OK.
By the way REG.......I understand what you typed but it just seems way to complicated. Though I never thought about using different size tires if your trailer isn't level. Kind of makes sense. I guess.
Posted 2006-03-11 6:07 PM (#38672 - in reply to #38642) Subject: RE: Adjusting gooseneck heigth
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Posts: 40
Does your trailer have rubber torsion axle's on it? if it does it should be as level as possible the rubber torsion axles does not balance out like spring axles does. If it has springs put the springs on the other side of the axles they make kits you can buy to raise trailers up also. You can order trailers with what they call Dodge package to get the neck up off of the bed of the truck but it takes away from your bed area.
A trailer will pull better level and when you stop and don't unhook the truck it sleeps a little better everything is better level if possible.
My sister and husband travel with there border collies doing trials all over the U.S. they pull with a tall Dodge and there trailer is level. It is a 26' on the floor 8x7.5 with Dodge package 4-Star with dog crates built in the rear. Good luck you can make it work.
Posted 2006-03-11 7:41 PM (#38680 - in reply to #38642) Subject: RE: Adjusting gooseneck heigth
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Posts: 57 Location: Casa Grande Arizona
I believe it does have torsion axels. That was what I was told it has. I don't know what that really means but the last owner said it has them. If I can get the trailer lifted 3-4" then I can make it really level and it would be perfect.
Posted 2006-03-11 8:55 PM (#38682 - in reply to #38680) Subject: RE: Adjusting gooseneck height
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Originally written by recurveman on 2006-03-11 8:41 PM
I believe it does have torsion axels. That was what I was told it has. I don't know what that really means but the last owner said it has them. If I can get the trailer lifted 3-4" then I can make it really level and it would be perfect.
Later,
Chad
It would have the "jacked up trailer" issue.
Tippy at best (raised c.o.g), no increase in ground clearance for those off road trails you mentioned since the axles would ground out at the same point. Well, the tail wouldn't drag as much, but hitting axles on rocks is worth avoiding.
From your earlier post it seems the axles are mounted directly to the frame anyway, e.g. there are no two things to block between.
I'm really NOT sure if all horse trailer torque-flex axles go all the way across, or if some are the short stubs that are used on some boat trailers.
If you have the short stubs I think it would be a MAJOR re-work to block/shim/raise them - and get it straight.
BTW, somewhere another poster wanted about 7 inches of lift and was considering using BIGGER WHEELS to get it all.
7 inches more radius on ALL wheels would have closed up that gap between the front and rear tires - and THEN some (-:
Posted 2006-03-11 9:05 PM (#38683 - in reply to #38642) Subject: RE: Adjusting gooseneck heigth
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Posts: 57 Location: Casa Grande Arizona
I'm not to worried about the axels hitting. I'm more worried about the black plumbing and getting stuck. I really don't think the COG is much of an issue either. Look at the 5th wheels that are REALLY high and then I have buddies that flip the axels on those too.
I'm more worried about dragging the box of the trailer and having to do a plumbing job out in the boonies.
I have axels that go all the way across the trailer too. So that should make it much easier. I would put bigger tires on it if I could. It pretty much has the biggest tire I can put on it. Now if I lift the trailer 2-3" then I could get bigger tires (I think) and raise the trailer a bit more.
Posted 2006-03-12 10:20 AM (#38701 - in reply to #38683) Subject: RE: Adjusting gooseneck heigth
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Originally written by recurveman on 2006-03-11 10:05 PM
I'm not to worried about the axels hitting. I'm more worried about the black plumbing and getting stuck. I really don't think the COG is much of an issue either. Look at the 5th wheels that are REALLY high and then I have buddies that flip the axels on those too.
I'm more worried about dragging the box of the trailer and having to do a plumbing job out in the boonies.
I have axels that go all the way across the trailer too. So that should make it much easier. I would put bigger tires on it if I could. It pretty much has the biggest tire I can put on it. Now if I lift the trailer 2-3" then I could get bigger tires (I think) and raise the trailer a bit more.
Later,
Chad
Some of those 5ht wheel campers scare the heck out of me, even when they're going the other way on a divided lane highway with 1/4 mile of center divider )-:
With horses we have the shifting (of a load that is already high) issue and some of us have hay and water tanks on the roof. Not that all of this applies to all of us, just some things to consider when thinking about blocking or flipping axles over.
BTW, the axle tubes on my torque-flex axled trailer DO go all the way across, though I havn't investigated how they're attached.
I checked the arithmetic on the two tire sizes, it is OK except where I had said that the effect would be greater on a shorter trailer - in fact it would be LESS. For example 10mm tire width equates to about 3.6 inches at the coupler on my long trailer, it might only equate to 3 or 2.5 inches at the coupler on a shorter trailer.
Posted 2006-03-12 10:50 PM (#38727 - in reply to #38642) Subject: RE: Adjusting gooseneck heigth
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Posts: 70 Location: Spanaway,Wa
Hey Recurveman I'm not much for ratios or formulas so all I know is what I see. I have a '03 2500HD LB w/ 6" lift and 35" tires. I pull a Sooner 3hrs GN. Needless to say we had some clearance issues. I wanted a min. of 6" of room above the bed rails but to get that much room and keep the trailer level I put 3 1/2" box tubing between the axle sub-frame and trailer main-frame. This also allowed me to go with 16" wheels and taller tires. The horses don't have a problem with the step up and I haven't noticed an issue with stability.
Posted 2006-03-13 1:31 PM (#38744 - in reply to #38642) Subject: RE: Adjusting gooseneck heigth
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Posts: 211 Location: El Paso, Texas
I have always kept the trailer as level as possible for one reason only, equal weight on all 4 trailer tires, nose high, means more weight on the rear two. Now most folks are more concerned that their refrigerator is level for better propane operation.
Posted 2006-03-13 7:35 PM (#38763 - in reply to #38760) Subject: RE: Adjusting gooseneck heigth
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Posts: 2689
Originally written by hounddog on 2006-03-13 7:28 PM
The rear tires get MUCH hotter then the front with nose up.Also the front tires will lock and skid.
Thanks for pointing it out, but we understand that.
The purpose of my post was to point out possible solutions other than blocking up both axles by the same amount as extending the coupler.
It is POSSIBLE to load the tires equally AND have the trailer not level, e.g. by blocking/shimming only the front axle or by using larger size tires on the front axle.
Posted 2006-03-13 7:51 PM (#38765 - in reply to #38642) Subject: RE: Adjusting gooseneck heigth
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Posts: 10
Location: Christiansburg, VA
Ok, definitely along the same lines with adjusting the heights.
I got the Sundowner dealer to help me raise my GN last week, and of course the nose is slightly high, I have noticed that it doesn't drive quite as well as it did when it was really level (too short actually), seems that something is sliding or not gripping as well as in the past. Anyway, he suggested putting 16" tires on it: it is a 93 Sunlite 720 which comes standard with ST22575R15's. He is suggesting putting 23585R16 with 16" rims on it and suggesting that it will work fine. I am concerned about things clearing--tires with each other, clearing the fenders...Is this a good idea or should I leave it the way it is, or maybe lower the front a smidge?..we adjusted it about 4 inches up. Please help SOON! I need to replace these tires, like yesterday!
Posted 2006-03-13 8:09 PM (#38767 - in reply to #38642) Subject: RE: Adjusting gooseneck heigth
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Posts: 70 Location: Spanaway,Wa
I switched from 235/75R15 tires to 235/85R16 but I don't think they would have cleared the fenders before I blocked up the axles. The clearance between the tires is fine mabey 2 1/2" with the larger tires.
Posted 2006-03-13 8:25 PM (#38771 - in reply to #38768) Subject: RE: Adjusting gooseneck heigth
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Posts: 2689
Originally written by paintthatain't on 2006-03-13 9:12 PM
P.S. Reg you wouldn't seriously suggest someone put larger tires on the front than the rear ?
Just wondering!
I did SERIOUSLY suggest it, as a POSSIBILITY.
Right now I can't see any GOOD reason not to.
As an "enginnered solution" {smirk} it is probably a LOT more sound than blocking up axles; also cheaper, simpler, easier, etc. Easily reversed too.
Posted 2006-03-13 10:15 PM (#38778 - in reply to #38642) Subject: RE: Adjusting gooseneck heigth
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Posts: 70 Location: Spanaway,Wa
I know you would do the research so there isn't any use in making up a B.S. answer. Nothing really jumps out at me that would make it dangerous. I guess it just seems so unconventional. I'll keep thinking from a mechanical aspect, I'm sure I'll come up with something.
Posted 2006-03-14 8:19 AM (#38787 - in reply to #38778) Subject: RE: Adjusting gooseneck heigth
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Posts: 2689
Originally written by paintthatain't on 2006-03-13 11:15 PM
I know you would do the research so there isn't any use in making up a B.S. answer. Nothing really jumps out at me that would make it dangerous. I guess it just seems so unconventional. I'll keep thinking from a mechanical aspect, I'm sure I'll come up with something.
CS
No "research", I did make it up as a B.S. (brain storm) answer.
Unfamiliar maybe, not unconventional - engineering solutions usually REQUIRE at least some original thought (-:
I don't think 2 different sized spares would be needed, or two different sized rims, assuming that the size changes are small and that you just need the spare as a "get home on" and not a "cross the country on" wheel.
Adjusting gooseneck heigth
