Thank you for your replies. The truck was back at the dealer today and the service manager said this is a very common problem with Fords and they can ONLY handle 2000# of tongue weight without air bags. Ford does advertise them to handle 15-25% of towing capacity which is 18,100# in my case but they can't and thats a fact. Mike at Trails West has been great and since I haven't loaded the trailer with horses and attempted to pull it I can't agrue that with weight in the rear there would be less on the tongue. It still wouldn't matter with the poor suspension Ford puts in their Heavy Duty "WORK" Trucks. Again thanks for all the advise and suggestion I certainly did go in today with tons of info....
Posted 2006-06-26 8:57 PM (#43678 - in reply to #43674) Subject: RE: F350 & TW
Elite Veteran
Posts: 634 Location: Tipton, IN
I don't men to start a ruckus, but I can assure you the "poor suspension" puts in their truck is just as sturdy or sturdier than GM or Dodge. You have a trailer with 33% of the weight on the tongue, that is WAY, WAY more than the 10-15% you might normally expect to see. You can blame the truck if you want, but before you do, borrow a friends Dodge or Chevy and try pulling it under the same conditions. And just so you know, neither Ford, Dodge, nor GM recommend more than 15% tongue weight for the suspension to work properly. These numbers can be checked at any of their towing guide sites.
*****Ok, so 25% is the max for pin weight. But have you ever actually figured out if you exceed your rear Gross Axle Weight Rating or GVWR, both of which are on your door sticker.
Posted 2006-06-26 9:00 PM (#43680 - in reply to #43674) Subject: RE: F350 & TW
Veteran
Posts: 191 Location: White Pine, TN
That somehow doesn't make much sense. That means at 15% your total weight can only be 13333 lbs. Wow. There are sure lots of folks out there pulling waaaay more than that with F350s without the problems you're describing. Ford needs to get their act together and come straight with their capacities.
Posted 2006-06-26 9:05 PM (#43681 - in reply to #43674) Subject: RE: F350 & TW
Expert
Posts: 1416 Location: sc
i understand you may be only venting. i drive a chevy and have no favorites, but im pretty sure that service manager is full of crap. i would take it to another dealer, or borrow a friends dodge or chevy, or another model ford and see what happens.
Posted 2006-06-27 7:26 AM (#43690 - in reply to #43674) Subject: RE: F350 & TW
Elite Veteran
Posts: 634 Location: Tipton, IN
Alright, heres the $64K question. HOW MUCH DOES THE TRAILER ACTUALLY WEIGH? I reviewed all of your posts now, and you never address this, and it is the main factor in the equation. Heres the rub, even if your 3h trailer only weighs 13500 pounds, nowhere near your limit, the tongue weight is still going to be 4455 pounds at 33%. Thats only 70 pounds shy of the MAXIMUM tongue weight recommended for an 18100 pound trailer at 25%. And honestly, if you have that high a % of tongue weight, your axles can't be in the right place. You say once you load horses that the weight will shift back, but that isn't necessarily the case. Your putting the weight over the axles, this is true, but your not going to change the pivot point of the trailer. So adding 3 horses across the rear, center, and front of the axles is going to maintain it at the same %. The only way I know of to reduce tongue weight is by moving the axles forward, or putting only one really big fat horse in the rear stall. Also, at 33% tongue weight your trailer can weigh no more than say 10600 before loading the horses, tack and a couple of bales of hay, not to mention clothes and camping gear in order not to exceed the MAXIMUM tongue weight of 4525 pounds. I know it seems as if I'm huffy about this, and maybe I am, but I have owned many Ford trucks, and still do. And I tow more than your max recommended trailer weight more than I should due to need, such as moving round bales, bobcats, backhoes, tractors and numerous other crap. And I have never seen a Ford Superduty suspension that was crap. Now, if you want to whine about the lack of power your gonna have with the 6.0 when you do start towing, fine, I think Ford missed the mark with this engine. But suspension, not.
Posted 2006-06-27 7:48 AM (#43691 - in reply to #43690) Subject: RE: F350 & TW
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 379 Location: Columbia, TN
I bet you could take you could tke a 4 Star, Hart, Bloomer or any major brand and hook to this same truck and have no problem. I think they engineer theirs better than that
Posted 2006-06-27 3:24 PM (#43711 - in reply to #43691) Subject: RE: F350 & TW
Member
Posts: 25 Location: Denton, TX
I bet you would be wrong. My wife has a 2005 F350 Dually and she pulled a Trails West, Exiss and C&C, to make sure it wasn't the Trails West. And it did the same with all 3 brands. The Ford dealer finally told her that the rear springs had been designed to give a better ride with the truck empty. Once we put air bags on the truck the problem stopped completely, so that tells me that the problem was with the truck!
Posted 2006-06-28 7:47 AM (#43730 - in reply to #43711) Subject: RE: F350 & TW
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 379 Location: Columbia, TN
Well I have never had any problem at all similar to this. I have had 90,94,99,and05 all f350. Have pulled several different trailers 21ft Tracer LQ, 37 ft Sundowner LQ. 28 ft Hart LQ and 20 ft flat bed trailer with 2440 John Deere with loader and 7 ft bush hog. The only time I can feel any movement is when when I haul the tractor and that is the gooseneck flexing . I feel people are not placing the ball in the right spot. I did put air bags on the 99 because the Sundowner sat me down almost to the frame but I pulled it to CCTR and back with no problem before I put them on. If the ball is too close to the front or too close to the back of the spring it will wrap. also all mine were the long beds I don't know about the short beds. Good luck on your problem.
Posted 2006-06-28 8:45 AM (#43735 - in reply to #43674) Subject: RE: F350 & TW
Veteran
Posts: 246 Location: Northern IN.
This has been a very interesting thread to follow.... but it all boils down to this, and I've said it for years, if the gosh dern designers, and engineers would make a truck a TRUCK, and leave the soft, cushiony ride to Cadillac, and Charmin we'd all be much better off!!! And maybee the price would come down if all those city-slickers that think a tall truck is cool so I've gotta have one would quite buying them and leave 'em for those of us that realy NEED them. Remember way back when.... can any of y'all remember Grand-Dad puttin' air bags on his good old '73 GMC Camper Special?? Me either, cause it didn't happen. I swear them things had a stack of springs that would put a Mack truck to shame. LOL Gee, Grandma came through those trips to the Smokey Mtns. just fine, fine enough to have our parents, right. The rough ride is part of the experience! That's how they invented travel mugs, ya know... if everything rode like a Caddy, we wouldn't need mugs with lids, now would we!!! lol Some things are just better the way they WERE! I guesse that about wraps up my rant for today, we now return you to your regularly scheduled debate........
Posted 2006-06-28 8:51 AM (#43737 - in reply to #43735) Subject: RE: F350 & TW
Expert
Posts: 1719 Location: PA
I really don't want my LQ contents to go busting down the road. That's why I put Link air on my truck. It's not really the trucks, it's the fact that our trailers have gotten so heavy and no one wants buy more that a 1 ton. Personally, I feel that if you are going to haul real weight, then do it with the right equipment.
Posted 2006-06-28 11:06 AM (#43742 - in reply to #43735) Subject: RE: F350 & TW
Expert
Posts: 2828 Location: Southern New Mexico
I had a 76 F100 that had more springs and rode better with a loaded trailer than my current 02 Dodge 2500. I pulled a 18 ft bumperbull stock trailer with the ford and my "old tuck", 03 Dodge 1500 and the difference was amazing. I think the old style suspension was so much better. I loved that old truck, it had "seats" built into the engine compartment and I could fix almost anything that went wrong with it. Im not touching anything in the newer trucks.
Posted 2006-06-29 4:09 PM (#43807 - in reply to #43674) Subject: RE: F350 & TW
Member
Posts: 8
Location: Holland,Texas
Ok been busy checkin this and that , here and there. And the results are: Trailer 11200#,Tongue 2300#(per txdot)=should pull just like it did w/dodge 4x4 dually,chevy 4x4 dually and dodge 2500(2diesels-1gas)but no...did same thing with 2horse non lq Bloomer conclusion The Truck! Solution? I sure hoping its the airbags I spent 4hours this morning (wasting cool riding weather btw) to get put on, Apparently some trucks do have better suspension than others and this certainly is not an isolated case. In fact there was another guy came in with a 05 he just bought and had the same problem and he was pulling a gooseneck trailer with a tractor.
Posted 2006-06-29 9:40 PM (#43816 - in reply to #43807) Subject: RE: F350 & TW
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 379 Location: Columbia, TN
Does yours have the extra helper spring on top of the big Spring. Sometimes the dealers in order to save a little over 200 bucks don't order these and it does make a difference. My 05 does a great job with no air bags. Is yours the long bed( 8 ft.)?
Posted 2006-06-30 8:51 AM (#43823 - in reply to #43674) Subject: RE: F350 & TW
Member
Posts: 8
Location: Holland,Texas
I think it is a 6ft bed and I should have every spring. The truck has camper pkg and tow command now it also has air bags. And it sill does it!!!!!! On the test drive I did notice that it was worse when I was taking off and when I was decreasing my speed for turns etc. I need a Mr. Trailer near me cause I'm just exhausted fighting with these guys!
Posted 2006-06-30 9:50 AM (#43825 - in reply to #43674) Subject: RE: F350 & TW
Elite Veteran
Posts: 634 Location: Tipton, IN
Ah, the plot thickens, a short bed dually. That may be part of your problem, ball location. If you stand beside your truck, like your straddling the axle, is the ball ahead of the axle (toward the cab) or behind the axle (toward the tailgate)?
Posted 2006-06-30 10:37 AM (#43828 - in reply to #43674) Subject: RE: F350 & TW
Elite Veteran
Posts: 671 Location: THE GREAT NORTHWET, OREGON(THE REAL GODS COUNTRY)
Ok here goes , 2006 F350 LONG bed crewcab Lariat. 2006 Trails west sierra 3 horse with LQ and slide AMT EXTRA LENGTH ALL THE UPGRADES.
truck=4850 front
3550 rear with full tank and two people (and Dog)
TAG ON TRUCK FRONT 5600
13000 GVWR, REAR 9000
Trailer
10,600 empty
whole thing
FRONT 5150
REAR 8100
BOTH TRAILER 10600
= 23850
I PUT EVERYTHING IN HERE I THOUGHT I COULD POSSABLY WANT,GENERATOR,88 GALLONS WATER,FEED, 3 HORSES, ALL TACK PLU,GUNS,TWO YEARS WORTH OF FOOD AND CLOTHES,BEDDING,15 GALLONS OF EXTRA DIESEL AND 5 GALLONS OF GAS ETC.
PULLED THIS COMBO OVER THE OREGON COAST RANGE AND CASCADES,6 LITER POWER,GREAT!!!!TRANSMISSION,GREAT !!!HELD BACK ALL THIS CRAP GOING DOWN 6 O/O GRADE AT 40 MILES AN HOUR NO BRAKES!! RIPPED UP THE OTHER SIDE 50 MILES AN HOUR NEVER BROKE A SWEAT.AVERAGE FUEL MILAGE 13.
TRAILER DROPPED TRUCK DOWN ABOUT 5 INCHES, WILL PROBABLY PUT AIR SPRINGS ON JUST BECAUSE I HAVE THEM FROM MY OLD TRUCK I TRADED IN.SITS LEVEL.
RIDES GREAT,CANT EVEN TELL THE TRILS WEST TRAILER IS THERE.FORDS INTEGRATED BRAKES ? WORKED FLAWLESS.
F350 & TW
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