Has anyone dealt with this before? My 7 yr. old mare has it. A piece of her uncalcified bone broke off in her stifle. Doc says she will never be sound even with surgery. I've read when the docs go in and clean up the joint, it's usually worse than what the ex-rays show. I just can't jusify the expense because of its advancement already. I've pastured her and she will be watched daily as to how her comfort is and also if she has issues rising when laying down. There will come a time to make a decision.........I hate this.
Posted 2008-06-02 6:52 PM (#85080 - in reply to #85061) Subject: RE: OCD
Expert
Posts: 2828 Location: Southern New Mexico
Oh, I'm so sorry. I had a gelding that chipped his knee cap and cortizone shots helped for a while. He finally go to where he would collapse when he stepped down wrong.
Posted 2008-06-02 10:36 PM (#85103 - in reply to #85061) Subject: RE: OCD
Expert
Posts: 3853 Location: Vermont
Originally written by Gone on 2008-06-02 2:29 PM
Has anyone dealt with this before? My 7 yr. old mare has it. A piece of her uncalcified bone broke off in her stifle. Doc says she will never be sound even with surgery. I've read when the docs go in and clean up the joint, it's usually worse than what the ex-rays show. I just can't jusify the expense because of its advancement already. I've pastured her and she will be watched daily as to how her comfort is and also if she has issues rising when laying down. There will come a time to make a decision.........I hate this.
Been there...done that...tried the surgery...followed up with ultrasonics and something similar to lithotripty to breakup the scar tissue...finally put the horse down...EXPENSE LESSON...I WILL NOT REPEAT......The next time when the Vets agree that something is a loss cause...IT'S A LOSS CAUSE...
Posted 2008-06-03 6:07 AM (#85109 - in reply to #85061) Subject: RE: OCD
Elite Veteran
Posts: 1069 Location: MI.
She has already been to surgery after she was initially broke when she was three for Gutteral Pouch Mycosis. She got through that and I just ended up pasturing her. When I retired her mother, I sent her to my trainers to be "rebroke" and here we are........another hurdle.
Posted 2008-06-03 3:19 PM (#85146 - in reply to #85061) Subject: RE: OCD
Regular
Posts: 97 Location: Newport News, VA
My, then, coming 3 year old Oldenburg filly had surgery for OCD in hocks in March 2007. She suddenly had her right hock swell, but was never lame. When the vet saw her, she even flexed sound, but he x-rayed her, because he said OCD often presents as effusion (swelling). The next day, he called and said she had 3 bone fragments in her hock and due to the size and placement, he was surprised she was not lame, but that was coming. He sent the x-rays off to a surgeon for a consultation and he recommended surgery. I took her off to Blue Ridge Equine in Charlottesville, VA for surgery. The surgeon did surgery on both hocks, although he said the small fragment he removed from the left was not truly an OCD lesion, but an anatomical anomaly that he has seen not infrequently and would not have cause trouble, due to being embedded in connective tisue. He said this way, she will x-ray cleanly, should I try to sell her, which has never been the plan. The first hock cost something like $1200 for surgery and the second another $500, maybe. My total bill to them ended up close to $2000. She has recovered well and had never taken a lame step. I figure with transportation costs ($550), before and after care, and additional board costs (upgrading to stall for two months off pasture board), I probably spent about $5000. She is/should be a fairly valuable horse, though. She is currently on an MSM/glucosamine supplement, but that's all. From what I understand, the hock is the joint with the most success for surgery. The stifle is the most difficult. I read one article that said one year, all three of the top finishers in the Kentucky Derby had previous OCD surgeries. If you are willing to do surgery, if it is a worthwhile option, I would not hesitate to send the x-rays off for a consultation with a surgeon. If your vet won't do that for you, then get another. A second opinion is never a bad thing.
Posted 2008-06-03 4:50 PM (#85152 - in reply to #85061) Subject: RE: OCD
Elite Veteran
Posts: 1069 Location: MI.
My local vet contacted MSU and spoke with a head vet. I also spoke with the same vet and the prognosis wasn't good. It's going be what it's going to be......Surgery isn't going to bring her to a longer term comfortable daily existance. Trust me, I've looked at all angles. There has to be a balance.
Posted 2008-06-04 12:08 PM (#85193 - in reply to #85061) Subject: RE: OCD
Member
Posts: 31 Location: Way, Way Up North
I've been down this road for years and years with our dog. The various surgeries have had marginal success and it has been very difficult and costly. Along with the OCD came horrendous arthritis and various other muscular/skeletal problems. Excellent chiropractic care has saved her life more than once. She is now practically bionic and has a drug bill that doesn't quit. She's a happy camper though. I think it will be much harder to keep your horse comfortable. Good luck to you.
Posted 2008-06-05 7:56 AM (#85241 - in reply to #85061) Subject: RE: OCD
Location: Central Arkansas
We a reiner that had OCD bone cysts in his stifle. He had surgery but never stayed sound long after he returned to work. We figured maintenance costs at about $400 a month. So after 2 years of paying vet bills, we donated him to TAMU. They will never ride him again and only use him as a stud. We tried to do right by the horse knowing that he will need ongoing vet care for the rest of his life.
Learning has occurred. Our feeding program has changed and we really stay on top of the loose minerals intake.We use OCD pellets and Necessity supplements. Now we do digital xrays prior to them getting started under saddle. That way, the recovery time isn't a factor. It is easier to resolve if damage has not been done to the area. A lot of top horses out there have had OCD issues. Some resolve without surgery. Most do not.
Posted 2008-10-12 2:26 PM (#92938 - in reply to #85241) Subject: RE: OCD stifle/reinier
Member
Posts: 29 Location: meadowlakes texas
Hi I have a 5yr old reiner that has recently shown lame. We did joint blocks but only showned about 60 percent better. X-rays were not so significant a bit of changes on the articulating head/flattening. She has had a mounth off. I want to try adequin / legend which do you like? How about Equioxx? Have you heard of this? Do these rieners ever recover? Maybe I don't want to know the answer to that.
Posted 2008-10-12 6:21 PM (#92950 - in reply to #85061) Subject: RE: OCD
Regular
Posts: 97 Location: Newport News, VA
Some vets prefer Adequan, some Legend. I have used Adequan for quite a while now on my older, retired mare. She has several "issues" and it does seem to make her more comfortable. I can tell a difference in her movement when she is coming up on a due date for an injection. Adequan can be given intramuscularly, where as Legend has to be given IV, so if you aren't comfortable giving IV injections, that could be a factor. Legend is significantly more expensive than Adequan. Equioxx is an non-steroidal anti-inflamatory, like bute or Banamine, but of the same class as Vioxx, for humans. Adequan and Legend function to actually stimulate joint fluid production and can promote healing in an injured joint. Both are considered to be very effective drugs, but they aren't miracle producers. They can improve some problems, but can't fix a major one. Like I said, Adequan HELPS my mare move more comfortably, but she is still unsound.
Posted 2008-10-13 7:45 AM (#92963 - in reply to #85061) Subject: RE: OCD
Location: Central Arkansas
We did Adequan and Legend simitaneouly for over a year. The OCD Pellets, a low starch feed, and the loose minerals helped, also. But the damage was done. TAMU got Spencer breeding sound using stem cell replacement. But being a reiner with a HUGE stop, he would not be able to stay riding sound to show. TAMU said they would never need to ride him again so they based their treatment on maintaining him soley as a breeding stallion.
If your mare is bred really well, maybe you should contact a vet school to donate her to. Be sure to ask what they do with them after they no longer can be a proiducer. In Spencers case, they said they would cut him and turn him out at the one of the TAMU owned ranches.
Posted 2008-10-13 9:13 PM (#93014 - in reply to #85061) Subject: RE: OCD
Regular
Posts: 97 Location: Newport News, VA
Surprise! I had my vet out today and he started my 4 yo warmblood mare on Legend. She has not been lame, but has just felt "unhappy" cantering on her right lead, which happens to be her favorite, for a while, especially on rough or uneven ground. She has no problem taking or holding either lead. He looked at her maybe two months ago. I was afraid, as he was, that it was a problem with the hock that she had the OCD fragments removed from. Fortunately, she flexed and x-rayed clean. He wasn't really sure what the problem was, but talked to my hoof trimmer about some stuff. I, then, had a veterinary chiropractor/acupuncturist look at her and she said she was loose and weak in her stifles, besides being stiff in her poll and neck. She said she was not done growing, yet, and to not push her to start flexing or jumping, but give her time to mature more and work on strengthening her hind end and suppling her neck, which we have been doing. Unfortunately, the land here is VERY flat, so hill work is tough to do. We do have 3 small hills behind the barn, left over from the excavation of the barn foundation and the ring, that give us some minor hill work, but they aren't REAL hills, just maybe 6-12 feet tall. She has shown improvement, but still was having some issues, so I called my vet, because I was concerned about doing damage to that stifle. He seemed pretty much in agreement with the vet chiro/acupuncturist, that these young wbs grow crazy fast (and she is already BIG) and it takes a while for everything to "catch up", but wanted to be sure that there wasn't inflammation in the stifle that might need a steroid injection. Again, she flexed fine, but he said he saw sort of a "double lock" as that foot hit the ground. He suggested Legend injections. He said you could make a case for Adequan, but felt Legend was a better choice. I know he uses a lot of Adequan, too (her dam has been on it for several years). So, I guess, the answer to which is best depends on what the underlying problem is and is a discussion to have with your vet. With the Legend, my vet will have to come give the injections. I have always given my own Adequan. I work at a zoo and have worked for vets, so he usually has no problem with having me do my own stuff. He even had me draw blood for Progesterone tests on my mare, when she was pregnant and just drop it at his office. Saves him time and me money. The filly is a nut case about needles, so there is no way I could give her an IV injection on my own. IM is hard enough. What's another few hundred dollars at this point, anyway?! Good thing he takes VISA!
Posted 2008-10-23 12:09 PM (#93478 - in reply to #85061) Subject: RE: OCD
Member
Posts: 29 Location: meadowlakes texas
I am going for a second opinion next week. My reiner had blocks on hock and then stifle. The vet thought she showed some relief witht the stifle injection at least 60% so he say's, I did not see it. We ran out of money and time then so I brought her home and started Legend and stall rest. She is still lame at the trot. I read somewhere about a trochanter bursitis which can show a circumduction in that rear leg before it hits the ground. This would mean tendonitis. I am thinking about our last show and how crapy the dirt was. She slide but then this showed up. Oh well I will see Dr Lewis in Texas next week. Thanks for the info Re surgeries, I guess if it is stifle I am looking to donate and start over again. Wish me luck/ or $$$$$ anyway.
Posted 2008-10-29 3:21 AM (#93848 - in reply to #85061) Subject: RE: OCD
Member
Posts: 29 Location: meadowlakes texas
Did another exam with world reknown Dr. Lewis. Here in Elgin Tx He blocked the lateral stifle, which the other dr. did not do and she was better, however sore on the other now, so because there is nothing significant on the x-rays, we are going to do cort injection and wait and rest. If this works then we will put the expensive hydrolic? acid. My question is what caused this inflammatory response, I am so particular about where and how myuch I slide, Last yr alone I prob slide a 1/2 dozen time..... I will resume showing TRHA in Jan and see. At that point cannot perform then I would prob breed and give her a yr. Shewas bought from Carol Metcalf and bred Freckles Playboy with 3 geneations of Doc Bar , Doc a Lena, Cant remember any more than that, Tell about your reiners
OCD
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...The next time when the Vets agree that something is a loss cause...IT'S A LOSS CAUSE...
