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winter hauling

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CTRider
Reg. Sep 2009
Posted 2009-11-02 2:08 PM (#112718)
Subject: winter hauling


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Posts: 330
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Location: northeast Texas
This subject came to mind the other day so I have a question. This is our first LQ so we are still in a learning curve. We use our trailer all winter. In north east Texas the weather is usually pretty mild however we do get some freezing weather. I know last year I left home for a competition in south Texas. It was snowing here and 22 degrees for the first 3 hours of my trip and then I gradually drove out of the storm to 70 degree weather. So if my trailer had been plugged in with heat on and was nice and warm, how long can I safely travel before freezing up would be an issue ? Same scenario last year we were camping and a storm blew in that night and it was sleeting, trees bent over covered in ice, and in the 20's when we loaded up and left the next morning. We had about a 3 to 4 hour trip home.Once again how long will the water supplies in the LQ be safe from freezing up if it had of been nice and warm when we unplugged it and headed out on the road.Patti
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retento
Reg. Aug 2004
Posted 2009-11-02 3:03 PM (#112722 - in reply to #112718)
Subject: RE: winter hauling


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Location: Rocky Mount N.C.

 The plumbing inside the heated area should be OK... But any cold water pipes exposed underneath the trailer may freeze... What's the wind chill with a 65 mph wind at 22 degrees? Any heat that was left in the water pipes will be gone shortly once you get up to highway speeds. May have a freezing problem, may not. Now you got me wondering....

 

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CTRider
Reg. Sep 2009
Posted 2009-11-02 3:23 PM (#112723 - in reply to #112718)
Subject: RE: winter hauling


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Posts: 330
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Location: northeast Texas
HAHA well I was expecting some expet answers and got more questions. I am fanatical about watching the weather prior to a competion because we time out and ride in whatever the weather is, so I would likely know ahead of time if it was going to be freezing. I suppose I could drain stuff and wrap the outside hydrant. But was wondering about the "what if" scenario. I know in my old converted dressing room trailer we had water on board in a horse water caddy and gallon jugs for cooking and it never froze, but was concerned about this one having pipes and such. Okay experts, come up with the answer.
Patti-
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gard
Reg. Aug 2007
Posted 2009-11-02 3:51 PM (#112724 - in reply to #112718)
Subject: RE: winter hauling


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Location: western PA

The wind chill factor only applies to living creatures, not machinery and such. The wind chill will cool an item faster, but its lowest temperature will not fall below the ambient temperature.

Any water in your black or gray water tanks could be quickly frozen. Any pipes run between your flooring will be at risk. The interior temperatures will quickly cool to match the outside temps. A lot depends on how long your trip lasts and how cold it gets during your travels. With many variables present, it would be impossible to accurately time the exposure necessary, to effect a freezing condition inside your trailer.

A full water tank would take some time to freeze. If you anticipate extreme conditions, you could drain your waste tanks and complete a quick air purge that would ensure no damage en route. A few seconds operating your water pump, will quickly restore the water system.

Gard

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Sheryl
Reg. Oct 2003
Posted 2009-11-02 4:17 PM (#112725 - in reply to #112718)
Subject: RE: winter hauling


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Posts: 233
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Location: Tennessee

Gard -

You mentioned some sort of adapter to assist with blowing out the water lines.  What is it called and where would I be able to buy it?

Thanks for all your good advice.

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gard
Reg. Aug 2007
Posted 2009-11-02 5:20 PM (#112731 - in reply to #112718)
Subject: RE: winter hauling


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Here's a plastic one for $2

http://www.rvwholesalers.com/catalog/blow-out-plug-09-0215.html

Brass are available for $5

http://www.rvwholesalers.com/catalog/camco-brass-blow-out-plug-09-0214.html

BOL  Gard

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Painted Horse
Reg. May 2005
Posted 2009-11-02 6:57 PM (#112735 - in reply to #112718)
Subject: RE: winter hauling



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Location: Northern Utah

You full tank of water , which is usually inside the trailer, Will probably be ok for two reason.  It will act as a greater heat sink.  Holding heat in the water. Also the water will be moving around int he tank as you drive. The sloshing will prevent it from freezing just like a running river doesn't freeze. It's the water thats not moving that will freeze first.  In a LQ trailer. that non-moving water will probably be the water in your pipes.  It will be under pressure and not moving in the pipes.  The pipes are often laid on the floor or against the outside wall of the trailer. hence they are not protected from the cold that radiates in through the wall or floor.

There is no formula that I can give you that says the pipes will be safe for X number of hours at X temperature.  It will be a matter of trail and error. Usually water freezing in PEX pipes won't damage the pipes. It's more the inconviences of not being able to use the plumbing when you arrive, until it thaws out.  I'd be more concerened about rigid items freezing. Water Heater, Water Pump than the plastic pipe. Buy a digital thermoter that records the high and lowest temps.  See just how cold your trailer really gets on a trip. If the trailer stays above freezing but the pipes freeze, Then you might try opening a cabinet door to let some heat into the area where the pipes are.

Perosnally, I just winterize the trailer and do with out indoor plumbing during the winter months. But then we have a week or two of 0* F around here.

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genebob
Reg. Nov 2007
Posted 2009-11-02 10:13 PM (#112742 - in reply to #112718)
Subject: RE: winter hauling


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My personal opinion is that if you heat the trailer to 70 degrees before you leave the insulation in the trailer in the trailer would hold above freezing for many hours. Here in Minnesota it gets darn cold and we have lost heat for any number of reasons during the winter. The last time was before I had a generator and electricity was out for four days in 5-15 degree temp. The house stayed above the freezing point for three days, until I could get a generator. It wasn't just me either, none of my friends or neighbors had their water lines freeze either.

On a side note Gard, wind chill will cause water to freeze faster, at least when it comes to my automatic waterer or even puddles in my yard.

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gard
Reg. Aug 2007
Posted 2009-11-02 10:46 PM (#112747 - in reply to #112742)
Subject: RE: winter hauling


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Location: western PA
Originally written by genebob on 2009-11-02 11:13 PM

On a side note Gard, wind chill will cause water to freeze faster, at least when it comes to my automatic waterer or even puddles in my yard.

The wind chill factor only applies to living creatures, not machinery and such. The wind chill will cool an item faster, but its lowest temperature will not fall below the ambient temperature.

A trailer moving in excess of 50 mph in freezing temperatures, will quickly cool down to the outside temperature. It doesn't have the thermo mass of a house,  the insulation "R" factor is less, aluminum and steel are excellent conductors of heat and cold, wood isn't, and a trailer is exposed to the elements on all six sides. Any direct comparison to a house would be unequal.

Gard



Edited by gard 2009-11-02 11:17 PM
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Spin Doctor
Reg. Nov 2008
Posted 2009-11-03 8:00 AM (#112755 - in reply to #112718)
Subject: RE: winter hauling


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Location: Valentine, NE
One thing that I do (don't know for sure that it helps) is to turn off the water pump and open all the spigots. That way, if the lines do freeze, they can expand and hopefully, not break anything. Only thing I worry about it is the hot water heater. I will drain it when not in use. As far as the holding tanks, I really don't think the black water tank would freeze if the toilet has been used. Also, a little RV antifreeze is dumped in each sink (cup full) and the grey tank should prevent most freezing. While moving, it would have to get pretty cold to freeze due the sloshing. In several winters in the great plains region, have yet to freeze one up.
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brew26
Reg. May 2009
Posted 2009-11-03 11:03 AM (#112764 - in reply to #112718)
Subject: RE: winter hauling


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Posts: 197
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Location: MT
Winter hauling in Texas that just sounds like an oxymoron, I live in the northern part in Mt and I haven’t ever hauled with water in the winter for the fear of breaking pipes if they froze. I wouldn’t think if you only drove for few hours in cold weather headed to warm that you would freeze and break your outside pipes.
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CTRider
Reg. Sep 2009
Posted 2009-11-03 1:15 PM (#112774 - in reply to #112718)
Subject: RE: winter hauling


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Posts: 330
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Location: northeast Texas
Well the thing about Texas is, the temps tend to change really fast. As a rule we dont have freezing and below weather for extended time like northern states. We have storms called Blue Norther's that just blow in, and blow out about as fast. We were camping one year and riding in T shirts and a storm blew in that night and there was 3 inches of snow dumped. The freak storm last year that dumped all the snow and had the 22 degree weather was in March, which is normally a fairly warm month for us. Husband and I planned to winterize it after our camping trip during Christmas since we wouldnt probably need the LQ until my competitions start in March. But like I said, the freak storm was in March. I had planned to work half a day and leave for the ride. We had to close school early that morning ( I am an educator) due to the snow storm so I was able to pull out about noon in 22 degree weather and snow. I was heading towards Houston, TX and drove about 3 hours before it warmed up outside. Thanks for the insight. I think I will put out a post on my riding organization's chat list about this subject.
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Wild Bill
Reg. Jan 2004
Posted 2009-11-04 1:35 PM (#112799 - in reply to #112718)
Subject: RE: winter hauling


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Location: Tracy, CA
Insulate the pipes and get a hot water heater blanket for the fresh water tank if you thank you will have freezing problems. Works for me.
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