Posted 2005-07-25 4:06 PM (#28545) Subject: Uh-oh...are these new laws for real?
Veteran
Posts: 198 Location: Iowa
I read this article the other day...it written for a website on drag racing, but the article is about new towing/commerical towing laws in Iowa and Wisconsin. Don't know how accurate the article is, but it basically says that in Iowa, for example, if you are going to an event to compete for cash prizes (horse shows?), and you are over 10,000 lbs GCWR (NOT GVWR), you have to have a logbook, etc. Here's the link for anyone interested...again, it's about dragsters specifically, but would sure have implications for people towing horses if true. I LIVE in Iowa...so this makes me nervous.
Here is an exerpt:
"The DOT officer then goes into the whole deal about commercial businesses and what determines them from a hobby, etc, etc. Bottom line, towing your race car to the races where you race for cash is now determined to be a commercial enterprise. This occurred in Wisconsin and I thought it might be a strange law there. I called the Iowa DOT and they explained it the same way. If you weigh over 10,000 pounds (truck, trailer and cargo) you are determined to be a commercial enterprise if you race for money and or deduct your racing expenses from your IRS taxes and show the winnings on a an IRS #1099."
Posted 2005-07-25 4:35 PM (#28546 - in reply to #28545) Subject: RE: Uh-oh...are these new laws for real?
Regular
Posts: 62 Location: Western Wisconsin
I too hope someone else that maybe knows more can chime in on this as well. We live in Wisconsin, and my FIL has heard rumors of this. One of the things he heard concerned having to put DOT numbers on the sides of your regular pickups. I can see that's going to go over real well. Seems pretty silly when we all know we aren't making that much money hauling to horse shows :-)
Posted 2005-07-25 5:10 PM (#28548 - in reply to #28545) Subject: RE: trailer axles
Member
Posts: 22
Location: Webster, NH
Those aren't new laws, they've been around for quite a while and in all states. Maine has a rash of inforcement several years ago that caugth a lot of people off guard. Not only do you need a log book, you need a medical card and inspection book.On the flip side, not too frequently does anyone question this stuff.Jim Clark-Dawe
Posted 2005-07-25 8:42 PM (#28562 - in reply to #28545) Subject: RE: Uh-oh...are these new laws for real?
Member
Posts: 31 Location: new richmond, wi
That Wisconsin State Patrol officer that grew up in greater metropolitan Milwaukee and was on a horse once in third grade at a merry-go-round will sure get a kick out that AQHA card!
Posted 2005-07-26 10:52 AM (#28573 - in reply to #28545) Subject: RE: Uh-oh...are these new laws for real?
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 455 Location: Ontario - east of TO
Originally written by Flooper on 2005-07-25 5:06 PM you are determined to be a commercial enterprise if you race for money and or deduct your racing expenses from your IRS taxes and show the winnings on a an IRS #1099."
I think that right there is the clincher...
I was asked about this when insuring my truck (all trucks in Ontario have "commercial" plates) And I had to go through 2 levels of managment to get a straight answer.... I mean come on - driving my $30K + rig (not to mention the cost for the horses and their up keep) to a show to win $20 or even $500... not a good business prospect .
I basically got the straight answer that if I don't have to claim any "winnings" or anything to do with hauling my trailer (horse sales or training for instance) on my income tax then it is not a business, not for profit, a hobby and not requiring commercial insurance.
The same should be true for things like this... I doubt the backyard drag racer that does all his own work is in any more danger of breaking even than the average horse owner. Now maybe the bigger, higher level racers - sure... or even a trainer or horse dealer making money from it... I that can see being commercial- but even then, how is a cop on the side of the road going to prove it??
Posted 2005-07-26 2:39 PM (#28583 - in reply to #28545) Subject: RE: Uh-oh...are these new laws for real?
Veteran
Posts: 247 Location: La Crosse, WI - God's Country
Been a ton of buzz on this topic here in Wisconsin. Net result - if you're a purely non-commercial carrier, no worries. We went ahead and ordered a DOT number, but were advised in the letter accompanying the number not to post it on our truck or trailer. So, if we get pulled over, we've got the number and the letter, so we're in compliance.
If we competed for $$ or especially if we had our ranch name on the side of our trailer, it'd be useful to have the DOT number just to avoid the headaches of getting pulled over...
Posted 2005-07-29 6:49 AM (#28673 - in reply to #28595) Subject: RE: Uh-oh...are these new laws for real?
Veteran
Posts: 225 Location: Kansas City
Originally written by Longrider on 2005-07-27 7:03 AM
What is the meaning of these two strange words - "for profit"?
My business card states that we are "Specialists in Equine Related Poverty." When handed to people with horses it is easy to quicky determine how intimate their involvement is with the financial side of owning a horse. They either look at you with a blank stare like what does that mean OR you are greeted by a belly laugh. . .
Posted 2005-08-02 8:35 PM (#28796 - in reply to #28595) Subject: RE: Uh-oh...are these new laws for real?
Expert
Posts: 2689
Originally written by Longrider on 2005-07-27 7:03 AM
What is the meaning of these two strange words - "for profit"?
There is difference between "non profit" (bad biz) and "not for profit" (charities, etc.)
You can still be regarded as a commercial vehicle if you are in any way connected with an organization that is TRYING to make a profit - whether or not the specific trip you are on is in pursuit of direct monetary gain.
Off to a show, for nothing but ribbons ? Sure...
Have you ever bred a horse at your barn ? Ever SOLD a horse ? Ever taken any deductions ? Filed forms C or F ? 1099_whatever_letters wrt horse biz ?
...the clincher
Would getting pinned in any way affect the value of your horse, horses on your property, your value as a trainer, breeder or whatever other connection you may have to the "equine industry" ?
It may be murky, it might be difficult/impractical for the cop in the cruiser to prove on the spot, but if cited you're stuck there with live animals on a trailer you can't move. You can go to court later and try to prove your amateur status, though being an amateur rider doesn't mean your truck is in non-commercial use.
Yes, these regulations aren't new by any means, they just have mini enforcement blitzes once in a while.
Posted 2005-08-03 12:41 AM (#28808 - in reply to #28796) Subject: RE: Uh-oh...are these new laws for real?
Elite Veteran
Posts: 1011 Location: Oregon
Oregon will soon have a new law: You will only be able to get Sudafed (and the like) only by perscription. These law makers passed it 57-2!! And the governor is expected to sign it. See now...I will have to make an appointment with my doctor, spend money on an office visit, to wait 1-2 hours to be seen, to get a $7.00 perscription. Then fight with the insurance company to pay for it, even though it is not a perscription in any other state. That is if I can get an appointment soon enough, before my cold is gone.
I think I will start stocking up and selling them on the black market for $50 a piece. I wonder if I did that in my truck, if I would be considered "commercial"?
They think this will cut down on the meth labs? Nah, just drive to Washington, Idaho. Nevada or California and get it.
Posted 2005-08-03 8:18 AM (#28815 - in reply to #28545) Subject: RE: Uh-oh...are these new laws for real?
Member
Posts: 30 Location: Summerville, SC
Ive never heard of anything like this in SC. We dont even have to register or license our trailers here. My opinion, for what it is worth is as follows. If your horses are not a big portion of your income, then its not a buisness and you are not considered commercial. We train horses, give riding lessons, occasionally buy or sell a horse. Any money made on these activities is peanuts in comparison to the cost of our horses. Both my wife and I work full time jobs (apart from our horse hobby) to pay for our horses. 95% of the horses cost is paid from our real jobs. Of course this is just my opinion and that means nothing in a court so I think everyone should check their own state laws.
Posted 2005-08-03 7:47 PM (#28845 - in reply to #28545) Subject: RE: Uh-oh...are these new laws for real?
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 335 Location: Decatur, Texas
Reg: Thanks for that mini-lesson on business basics. I've figured out that I need to keep 2 sets of books. Cooking one set for the banker, financial institurions, investors, etc. and another for the IRS showing all losses and no gains. After all, isn't this the modern-day American business ethics in action? I'll sell all of my horses, cattle, sheep by giving everyone an employee's discount. Everything I learned in marketing. Let's see now, if I sell below cost the volume will offset the loss. Right? LOL
Uh-oh...are these new laws for real?
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Oregon will soon have a new law: You will only be able to get Sudafed (and the like) only by perscription. These law makers passed it 57-2!! And the governor is expected to sign it. See now...I will have to make an appointment with my doctor, spend money on an office visit, to wait 1-2 hours to be seen, to get a $7.00 perscription. Then fight with the insurance company to pay for it, even though it is not a perscription in any other state. That is if I can get an appointment soon enough, before my cold is gone.