Posted 2008-05-17 8:05 AM (#84110) Subject: farm diesel fuel
Veteran
Posts: 148
Location: columbia tn
i have a question i am certain alotttt of you will know.. ok i know your not suppose to run farm diesel fuel in your trucks.. but what is the difference with the fuel.. will it hurt your truck at all..(just wondering) can you tell you have it when just running down the road... again just wondering... thanks for any input on this
Posted 2008-05-17 8:13 AM (#84111 - in reply to #84110) Subject: RE: farm diesel fuel
Member
Posts: 40
The difference is a colorant added, and you do not pay road taxes on the farm diesel. No, there is no difference in actual fuel, but if you get caught on the road with farm diesel in your tank, and you are not driving a tractor to your fields, the fines are very stiff. It is all about money and nothing about quality of fuel.
Posted 2008-05-17 8:24 AM (#84113 - in reply to #84110) Subject: RE: farm diesel fuel
Veteran
Posts: 199
Location: White Pine, TN
The difference in TN is that there is a major fine to pay. The state dept of rev has been checking at some shows and there have been some really unhappy people. DON'T DO IT, ISN'T WORTH THE FINE.
Posted 2008-05-17 9:58 AM (#84118 - in reply to #84110) Subject: RE: farm diesel fuel
Regular
Posts: 70
Location: Northern, CA
Yes, it is ultra low sulfur. It's exactly the same stuff only with red dye added. It is used in the shipping industry too. Had a vessel apart and we had to remove all the fuel from the tanks. One idiot in the shipyard put some in his truck. Heard he got picked up. Nice big fine. ...and just TRY to clean the dye out of your system! (He sold his truck).
Posted 2008-05-17 2:02 PM (#84133 - in reply to #84110) Subject: RE: farm diesel fuel
Expert
Posts: 2453
Location: Northern Utah
There is always the possiblity that in your area, the Off Road diesel may not be ULSD. It's probably not in the interest of your local refinery to have TWO production lines, One making ULSD and a second making Off Road diesel. So it's probable is the same fuel with just the dye. If you have a 2008 model diesel engine and it HAPPENs to be the old non-ULSD diesel. You could plug your particulate filter and require a new filter which would offset any money you saved by not paying the hiway taxes on your fuel.
I buy a 100 gallons or so of the Off-Road fuel each week for my equipment. ( skid loader and mini excavator) I save about 25 cents per gallon by buying off road vs fully taxed fuel. When diesel was 80 cents a gallon. a 25 cent savings in the tax was signicant. When diesel is $4.50 a gallon, 25 cents isn't as significant of a savings.
As stated, the powers that regulate fuel taxes, periodically check to see if you are running off road fuel in vehicles used on the public roads. They seem to try and have check points at locations that offer them the greatest chance of catching somebody. Around here I've seen them "Dipping" fuel tanks at Fairground and construction sites. They are looking for people who have easy access to Off Road fuel ( Farmers often have their own Fuel tanks so it's easy to fill their truck from the same tank they fill their tractor from, Construction workers often have fuel tanks in the truck beds that they haul fuel to their construction equipement. it's easy to slip a hose out of the bed and into the trucks tank) They usually just dip a small vial on the end of Dip stick down the filler neck and take a sample of whats in the tank. If the sampe is red, you get a ticket. The red dye is very strong and shows up in very diluted quanties of fuel. Meaning that The ist tank of fuel may be red. You fill up normal hiway fuel for the nd, 3rd, and 4th fill up. The fuel in your tank is no longer red, but will still show very pink. I've heard that it can take 10-12 fill ups for the pink color to go away. Of course your fuel filter will be stained Red until you replace the filter. So if the cops really suspect you of using Off Road diesel, they can ask you to pull your filter.
The penalty for using off road fuel in a on road vehicle can be very substaintial. Depending on your state the fines vary. but 1st offenses around here usually run around $2500. For me, I'd have to get away with over 333 fill ups @ 25 cents per gallon savings before the savings would out weigh the penalty.
Posted 2008-05-17 10:12 PM (#84143 - in reply to #84140) Subject: RE: farm diesel fuel
Expert
Posts: 2453
Location: Northern Utah
You are right the requirement to change Off Road over to ULSD is not until 2010. But most refineries converted over a year ago and did not keep the Low Sulfur refineries online. It just wasn't financially justifiable to keep two production lines online. They are selling all the USLD they can produce. There probably are some small refineries that have decided not to spend the big money reguired to convert to ULSD. But this decision has limited them to almost exclusive off road products.
Posted 2008-05-19 10:06 AM (#84211 - in reply to #84110) Subject: RE: farm diesel fuel
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 399
Location: Ottawa, Illinois 61350
Law enforcement (state troopers) love pulling into a sale barn, farm sale, or campgorunds and pull samples out of pick-up trucks. They got 20+ trucks usng farm fuel in trucks at a sale barn a while back. The fine you will pay in this state will buy quite a bit of road use taxes if your caught in this state.
Posted 2008-05-19 10:47 AM (#84213 - in reply to #84110) Subject: RE: farm diesel fuel
Location: Where the wind comes sweepin' down the plain...
I was doing a little research and found this on the State Senate's website. It was new to me. I want to do a little more research and see what happens on the federal side, or state to state. It sure would be a pain to be caught out of state for something that is legal in your state.
Senate Approves Corn Amendment to Allow Use of Dyed Fuel in Trucks
Sen. Kenneth Corn on Tuesday successfully amended a measure to allow for the use of dyed motor fuel in pickups, trucks or truck-tractors, provided that the operator has obtained a permit from the Oklahoma Tax Commission.
Corn added the provision to House Bill 1418, which provides a sales tax exemption for surviving spouses of disabled veterans. Dyed diesel fuel carries a lower cost than un-dyed fuel, and under current law its use is illegal for highway vehicles. Corn said the proposal would provide much needed relief for Oklahoma farmers and ranchers struggling with soaring fuel costs.
“It’s becoming harder and harder for Oklahomans to make a living in the farming and ranching industry and the cost of fuel has certainly contributed to the problem,” said Corn, D-Poteau. “By allowing trucks and tractors to operate on red diesel, we can provide some relief while regulating its use through the tax commission.”
The legislation requires users of red diesel to obtain an annual permit, not to exceed a cost of $100.00, from the Oklahoma Tax Commission. Under current law, the use of red diesel is only permitted for off-road vehicles such as tractors.
“Farmers and ranchers have certainly been among those most affected by the increased cost of fuel,” Corn said. “This is a common sense proposal to help two of our state’s bedrock industries deal with a pressing issue.”
Posted 2008-05-21 2:39 AM (#84369 - in reply to #84304) Subject: RE: farm diesel fuel
Expert
Posts: 3853
Location: Vermont
Originally written by Tresvolte on 2008-05-20 7:19 AM That is what I am figuring. I haven't found the answer yet how that would be handled. I am still doing some digging...
The other problem I see is that if they were to revoke the law later...then you would have the problem of GETTING THE RED OUT...and I don't think Visine would work...
Posted 2008-05-21 7:28 AM (#84378 - in reply to #84369) Subject: RE: farm diesel fuel
Location: Where the wind comes sweepin' down the plain...
Originally written by PaulChristenson on 2008-05-21 2:39 AM
The other problem I see is that if they were to revoke the law later...then you would have the problem of GETTING THE RED OUT...and I don't think Visine would work...
Yeah, I don't think Visine would be a good idea.
On that note...I ran across a construction company that got fined for "pink" fuel. They went to court on it and got their fines overturned. They used one fill hose for both fuels and it was turning the fuel pink.
Posted 2008-05-22 11:27 AM (#84465 - in reply to #84304) Subject: RE: farm diesel fuel
Member
Posts: 20
Location: Good OL' USA
In Texas if you are caught running farm fuel, they set the fine according to the miles shown on the vehicle and fine you so much per mile. NO QUESTION!
Posted 2008-05-26 9:50 AM (#84663 - in reply to #84110) Subject: RE: farm diesel fuel
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 322
Location: Fort Madison, Iowa
I didn't know about there being a difference when you bought farm diesel. My husband didn't think it was a big deal.
I decided to find out for myself so I called our local dealership and talked with a mechanic and our regular mechanic to find out if it mattered. Both said not to use it in your truck because it could cause problems with your fuel injectors and after they told me how much each costs and how many I had, that was enough for me.
Actually the first thing they said was enough for me, I could get a $10,000. fine if found using it. Needless to say, I don't use it anymore.