Posted 2008-04-03 11:59 AM (#81046) Subject: Expedition or Suburban?
Member
Posts: 26
Help me figure out which one to buy!
I have a Shoop 2 horse trailer (Alum over steel) with a max weight of 5000 lbs. Empty weight is around 2500, no dressing room.
Since I have no DR, I need a large SUV to carry the extra amounts of horse gear and tack. I was originally hoping to buy a K1500 Suburban, but then looked at the specs and realized its tow rating is not all that great. In a 4WD, 5.7L, 3.73 axle vehicle, max tow weight is around 6500 lbs. On the other hand, a similarly equipped Ford Expedition (also 4WD and 3.73 axle, and a 5.4L engine) can tow up to 7900 lbs.
I keep going back and forth on each because I know the Suburban is going to be more stable due to its longer wheelbase and slightly lower height; plus it has more of a truck-like build with the rear springs. The Expedition will tow more, but the wheelbase is at that minimum mark (~120 in) for towing a horse trailer.
At some point I hope to upgrade to a 2 horse BP with a dressing room, but at the moment I'm going to keep the Shoop. If I upgrade, the trailer is obviously going to weigh more and I'll need something that can handle the weight -- the Suburban may not be able to do that. However, the shorter wheelbase on the Expedition has me concerned that it won't be as stable, especially with a longer trailer.
I would buy a 2500 Suburban if I could, but a) they are few and far between around here and b) I've heard some not-so-great things about the 454.
Posted 2008-04-03 12:13 PM (#81049 - in reply to #81046) Subject: RE: Expedition or Suburban?
Veteran
Posts: 129 Location: Northwest Ohio
I don't know about the weights or anything, but aren't the Excursions bigger/longer than the Expeditions? I would compare a Suburban to an Excursion moreso than the Expedition.
Posted 2008-04-03 1:02 PM (#81054 - in reply to #81046) Subject: RE: Expedition or Suburban?
Expert
Posts: 3802 Location: Rocky Mount N.C.
Find you a 2001 or 2002, 2500 Suburban with the 8.1 (496) and 4L80 automatic. The Suburban and Avalanches didn't come with the Allison or the Duramax Diesel.
Maybe a 2001 through early 2003, F250 Excursion with a 7.3 diesel. That would make a fine "Family Truckster"!
What do the new Expedition XL's have to offer? What are they rated to tow?
Posted 2008-04-03 4:48 PM (#81070 - in reply to #81046) Subject: RE: Expedition or Suburban?
Expert
Posts: 5870 Location: western PA
If I'm not mistaken, Excursions are not made any more, only short and long wheel base Expeditions. The early Expeditions (late 90's) had a solid rear axle, the newer ones an IRS. A friend of our has a newer short wheel base and does not like the stability when subjected to cross winds when pulling.
We pulled a three horse stock combo. Power was never a problem and overall stability was good. We were in a violent maneuver once, ending up with the tail wagging the dog.
The longer wheel base version or the equivalent Suburban would be the best bet.
Posted 2008-04-04 11:11 PM (#81223 - in reply to #81046) Subject: RE: Expedition or Suburban?
Elite Veteran
Posts: 736 Location: Western WA
Expeditions are built on a 1/2 ton platform and in the years you are looking at, the biggest engine was the 5.4L which is what you would want at the very least for towing. The other option was the 4.6L engine (I think) and it was underpowered even when not towing/hauling a load.
Suburbans are at least available in either the 1/2 ton or 3/4 ton models, I'd lean towards the 3/4 ton Suburban.
Posted 2008-04-05 6:48 AM (#81232 - in reply to #81046) Subject: RE: Expedition or Suburban?
Regular
Posts: 93 Location: Southern Indiana
Since you are already considering a trailer change in the future-- Do you need to consider that the future trailer could be a two horse, dressing room GOOSENECK?? Your market for vehicles to pull your current trailer and future trailer would expand.A truck might be another choice-- Your tack could fit into boxes in the bed of a new 2 u truck until your next trailer purchase. So much to consider and best of luck to ya!!!
Posted 2008-04-05 8:00 AM (#81236 - in reply to #81061) Subject: RE: Expedition or Suburban?
Expert
Posts: 1416 Location: sc
Originally written by classact2575 on 2008-04-03 3:19 PM
I'm talking 93-99 (Suburban) and 97-99 (Expedition).
Excursions are nearly impossible to find around here; plus they're relatively new and thus out of my price range.
With those choices, I would probably be more interested in the Ford. The brakes on that generation of GM trucks leaves something to be desired. Make sure you verify that whichever you choose has the factory tow package, and I suspect you would do fine either way.
Posted 2008-04-05 10:11 AM (#81251 - in reply to #81046) Subject: RE: Expedition or Suburban?
Elite Veteran
Posts: 714 Location: Minnesota
I kind of agree with coltaffyjo. Maybe you should think about a PU with a topper for now. I know those are available. Then, at least when and if you decide to trade trailers, you are not limited to just bumper pulls. It opens up a whole new world of options. I'm just trying to look at the big picture.
Posted 2008-04-05 12:08 PM (#81260 - in reply to #81251) Subject: RE: Expedition or Suburban?
Expert
Posts: 5870 Location: western PA
Originally written by genebob on 2008-04-05 11:11 AM
I kind of agree with coltaffyjo. Maybe you should think about a PU with a topper for now. I know those are available. Then, at least when and if you decide to trade trailers, you are not limited to just bumper pulls. It opens up a whole new world of options. I'm just trying to look at the big picture.
I agree with both of them. After owning a truck and switching to the SUV for towing, we quickly switched back to a truck. It is more versatile, powerful and most importantly stable.
Posted 2008-04-05 5:47 PM (#81280 - in reply to #81046) Subject: RE: Expedition or Suburban?
Member
Posts: 17
Location: KY
I have just solved this problem for myself, so I thought I would weigh in for you....I really liked the Expedition better but for towing, we bought a 2005 Yukon XL (suburban cousin). We haven't pulled with it yet, but I can tell you that we decided on it over the Expedition based on the longer wheelbase, better for towing, and the room in the back is AWESOME! (I have 3 kids under 9 that will be going to the shows with us....) I read that it tows about 7400 lbs. I am planning to get a Corn Pro 3 horse slant that weighs about 3800 lbs empty plus my one filly most of the time. You'll be totally fine with a Suburban. You will love driving it!
Posted 2008-04-06 10:30 AM (#81305 - in reply to #81046) Subject: RE: Expedition or Suburban?
Veteran
Posts: 136 Location: Alabama
I pulled a steel Bee two horse trailer (no DR) with a 1992 1/2 ton gas suburban for many years. I LOVED the suburban both while pulling and otherwise too!!! I pulled that two horse trailer fully loaded from Alabama to Kentucky many times with no problems and also down to Florida and over to GA many times with no problems. I would still have the suburban except that I moved to a gooseneck trailer.
Posted 2008-04-14 11:55 AM (#81882 - in reply to #81046) Subject: RE: Expedition or Suburban?
Member
Posts: 26
I was thinking about just getting a truck, but I want something that's enclosed and a little more easily accessible to the cargo area (e.g., you can't get to the bed from the cab of a truck without crawling through the window ). Being able to use the seats as saddle racks also helps. ;)
Here's another question - is it possible to change the rear axle on a Suburban so it's a 4.10 instead of a 3.73?
Posted 2008-04-14 1:59 PM (#81897 - in reply to #81882) Subject: RE: Expedition or Suburban?
Expert
Posts: 1416 Location: sc
Originally written by classact2575 on 2008-04-14 11:55 AM
I was thinking about just getting a truck, but I want something that's enclosed and a little more easily accessible to the cargo area (e.g., you can't get to the bed from the cab of a truck without crawling through the window ). Being able to use the seats as saddle racks also helps. ;)
Here's another question - is it possible to change the rear axle on a Suburban so it's a 4.10 instead of a 3.73?
Posted 2008-04-16 1:08 PM (#82083 - in reply to #81046) Subject: RE: Expedition or Suburban?
Member
Posts: 26
Gard - ugh. Forgot about that part. :D
Here's another question... I'm comparing the specs on various trucks & SUVs, and the Suburban's tow capacity seems inordinately low in comparison. For example:
1997 Ford F-150, 4wd: 230-hp, 5.4L V-8. Torque 325 lb.-ft. @ 3,000RPM. Curb weight 4,478 lbs. Max Tow rating: 7700 lbs
1997 Expedition, 4wd: 230-hp, 5.4L V-8. Torque 325 lb.-ft @ 3,000 RPM. Curb weight 4,826. Max tow rating: 7900 lbs.
versus
1997 Chevy Suburban 1500, 4wd: 255-hp, 5.7L V-8. Torque 360 lb.-ft @ 1,800 RPM. Curb weight 5,226 lbs. Max Tow rating: 6500 lbs.
I'm no mechanic, but one would think the Suburban would have at least 7000 lbs based on a quick glance at the HP. Plus the torque is loads better at a even a lower RPM. Is the curb weight to blame?
Posted 2008-04-16 1:38 PM (#82090 - in reply to #81046) Subject: RE: Expedition or Suburban?
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Posts: 235 Location: Bucksport, Maine
Oooh, ooh, I get to hazard a guess before the experts step in! I would say yes, at least partially. As I understand it, the tow capacity is the GCWR (gross combined weight rating?) minus the curb weight. The higher the curb weight, the less you can haul.
Posted 2008-04-16 2:34 PM (#82097 - in reply to #82090) Subject: RE: Expedition or Suburban?
Expert
Posts: 1416 Location: sc
Originally written by Sharon on 2008-04-16 2:38 PM
Oooh, ooh, I get to hazard a guess before the experts step in! I would say yes, at least partially. As I understand it, the tow capacity is the GCWR (gross combined weight rating?) minus the curb weight. The higher the curb weight, the less you can haul.
Technically youre right, but we are dealing with two diferent manfacturers here. So the real question is how do they arrive at the GCWR? Only they know that answer. Must be a number they feel will give a safe, reliable service life for that vehicle.
Posted 2008-04-16 2:50 PM (#82099 - in reply to #82083) Subject: RE: Expedition or Suburban?
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Posts: 1416 Location: sc
Originally written by classact2575 on 2008-04-16 2:08 PM
Gard - ugh. Forgot about that part. :D Here's another question... I'm comparing the specs on various trucks & SUVs, and the Suburban's tow capacity seems inordinately low in comparison. For example: 1997 Ford F-150, 4wd: 230-hp, 5.4L V-8. Torque 325 lb.-ft. @ 3,000RPM. Curb weight 4,478 lbs. Max Tow rating: 7700 lbs 1997 Expedition, 4wd: 230-hp, 5.4L V-8. Torque 325 lb.-ft @ 3,000 RPM. Curb weight 4,826. Max tow rating: 7900 lbs. versus 1997 Chevy Suburban 1500, 4wd: 255-hp, 5.7L V-8. Torque 360 lb.-ft @ 1,800 RPM. Curb weight 5,226 lbs. Max Tow rating: 6500 lbs. I'm no mechanic, but one would think the Suburban would have at least 7000 lbs based on a quick glance at the HP. Plus the torque is loads better at a even a lower RPM. Is the curb weight to blame?
Where are you getting your numbers? Data from 97 can be somewhat unreliable unless its on factory paper. The reason Im asking is the 360 @ 1800 rpm is likely a misprint, 1800 rpm is pretty low for a gas engine peak torque. I really wouldnt sweat 500#, if you like one truck better run with it.
Expedition or Suburban?
). Being able to use the seats as saddle racks also helps. ;)
I would say yes, at least partially. As I understand it, the tow capacity is the GCWR (gross combined weight rating?) minus the curb weight. The higher the curb weight, the less you can haul.