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Bo Derek, Willie Nelson and Horsemeat

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deranger
Reg. Jan 2004
Posted 2006-09-30 3:13 PM (#49437 - in reply to #49436)
Subject: RE: Bo Derek, Willie Nelson and Horsemeat


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Yvette, why don't you start a thread about auctions or rescues and see what kind of response you get.
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Anne0135
Reg. Nov 2005
Posted 2006-10-01 11:18 AM (#49468 - in reply to #49436)
Subject: RE: Bo Derek, Willie Nelson and Horsemeat



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Yvette, my first horse was from an auction. Goreous half Arab/QH mare.  I dont think this answers the slaughter question, though. You really have to know what you're doing to buy a horse from auction. Part of the problem right now is there are too many people who go to the auctions, fall in love  , take them home and then can't ride them or train them. They end up back on the market, some better some worse for the wear. I don't know what the answer is but my gut tells me as horrible as it is to contemplate, slaughter is a necessary pressure valve for  an overbred market. The real horror would be the creation of a black market, which is what I believe we'll get with the anti-Slaughter legislation.
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pennyjog
Reg. Sep 2005
Posted 2006-10-09 5:26 PM (#49805 - in reply to #47787)
Subject: RE: Bo Derek, Willie Nelson and Horsemeat


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Location: Portage, Indiana
I agree...It's a necessary evil..too many horses and not enough owners/land to go around...Seems horse industry is down right now...higher dollar horses seem to be selling but moderate  priced ones aren't...also depends on the area...
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Yvette
Reg. Jul 2006
Posted 2006-10-28 8:34 PM (#50783 - in reply to #49468)
Subject: RE: Bo Derek, Willie Nelson and Horsemeat



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Hi Anne, that's great that you found a good one at auction. Yup, auctions you have to have a clue and a bit of luck doesn't hurt either. ;)

Deranger, perhaps when I have more time, I'll try that. :)

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loveduffy
Reg. Feb 2006
Posted 2006-10-28 10:26 PM (#50787 - in reply to #49805)
Subject: RE: Bo Derek, Willie Nelson and Horsemeat



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The only people who should have breeding animal are the ones license by there association, that would help keep the crap out of the gene pool. the ones breed for no reson at all would be stop. Some assocation are starteing do that now with regeration of the animal. also if the killing of horse dose not stop then why not do the same for cats and dog? There are countrys that eat them, and  there are a lot more of them then horses .Think about it 
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Terri
Reg. Jan 2004
Posted 2006-10-29 11:17 AM (#50797 - in reply to #50787)
Subject: RE: Bo Derek, Willie Nelson and Horsemeat



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Why not do the same for cats and dog?

 

I don't know what planet your on, but the pound/humane society does euthanate cats and dogs.  There may be a blackmarket for dogs overseas, but since dogs have more than one pup at a time, I don't see why anyone would have to import them for food. 

And even if breed associations limit the registeration of babies to owners with a liscence, it would not stop people from breeding.  Lots of people don't care about papers as long as the horse has the abiltiy to do the job.

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loveduffy
Reg. Feb 2006
Posted 2006-10-30 6:59 PM (#50871 - in reply to #50797)
Subject: RE: Bo Derek, Willie Nelson and Horsemeat



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that is right cat and dog are euthanate not slaugher. In  other country if you take your dog or cat with you there is a good change that somebody with try to take it and sell it to a restrant, the meat is more tender then the ones that they raise local. The breeding stock would only be onwed by liscence breed cat and dog should be the same all male should be fix.  no male unfix should be owned by a none liscence poeple This would cut back on all unwonted animal.
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Terri
Reg. Jan 2004
Posted 2006-10-30 8:05 PM (#50874 - in reply to #50871)
Subject: RE: Bo Derek, Willie Nelson and Horsemeat



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How do you figure the meat is more tender?  If they are being bred for the table, they aren't running loose for years.  Yes, in this country they are not slaughtered for food.    But not all cats and dog end up in a pound.  Lots are neglected/abandonded and starve or get shot as strays.  Is that better for them than being slaughtered?  I don't think so. 

And how do you propose to keep the "breeding stock" in the hands of liscenced breeders?    Are you going to take all the mares in the country away from their owners and give them to breeders?  Are we only going to be allowed to own geldings?  The only thing the registeries can do is refuse to register the babies and maybe fine/kick out the horse owners and cancel reg papers.  But what about all the studs that AREN'T registered?  How are you going to keep track of the unregistered mares that foal?  Or the registered ones that aren't reported? 

I'm not for breeding everything that moves, my stud was gelded, my dogs have been fixed, heck I'VE been fixed.  But what you propose still won't stop the over breeding.  The big breeders will get liscences and keep on breeding as they have.  How many foals does it take a racing operation to get a winner?   It won't make anyone breed less, it won't stop people with unregistered animals from breeding.  It won't stop strays from breeding.

 

I don't like the idea of slaughter, but until horses are on the endangered list I think it has its place. 

 

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loveduffy
Reg. Feb 2006
Posted 2006-10-30 10:22 PM (#50887 - in reply to #50874)
Subject: RE: Bo Derek, Willie Nelson and Horsemeat



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I do not know all the ansewer, but there is a better way; there has to be. Rasin horse for human consuption? I know that cattle are rasied for poeple to eat but horses? dog and cat? somebody has to say stop!how  I do  not have that ansewer I wish I did. and yes I eat meat, I just do not like the animal to be beaten be for slaughtering that is my biggest problem 
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Terri
Reg. Jan 2004
Posted 2006-10-31 2:53 PM (#50914 - in reply to #50887)
Subject: RE: Bo Derek, Willie Nelson and Horsemeat



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I just do not like the animal to be beaten be for slaughtering that is my biggest problem

 

 

They don't beat the animals before they slaughter them.  Why does someone have to say stop?  Because someone famous doesn't like horse meat?  Well I don't like rabbit or deer or lamb.  So should people be forced to stop hunting rabbit and deer?   Or stop raising sheep?   Some countries use cattle as work animals, should we stop eating them because it may upset them?

I understand what your saying, your horses are your pets.  Mine are.  When I was in 4-H my steers, lambs, rabbits, hogs and turkeys were my pets.  Well maybe not the turkey, but I'm not going to have fits about others wanting to eat them.    As long as there is a market for horse meat in the world there will be suppliers.  I would rather them eat the unwanted/injured animals than create a black market for stolen animals or "puppy mills" (horsey mills?)    Even if what you propose came to be somehow, that would simply shift the supply point.  The horses would be taken to Mexico to be slaughtered.  It still wouldn't stop it.

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loveduffy
Reg. Feb 2006
Posted 2006-10-31 6:54 PM (#50923 - in reply to #50914)
Subject: RE: Bo Derek, Willie Nelson and Horsemeat



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You are right in everything you wright, but the aution place that I have been to (P.A.) the horses that are sold to slaughter buyers are beaten in the pen and as the get on the truck. The cattle sale that I have been to the cattle are treated a lot better. I like the way the Indians think- be glade for the animal you are about to eat.- I worked dairy cow, the male were raise for veal and sold or slaughter on the farm I have no problm with that he died happy. Not sure if i can wright what i mine sorry it's just how i feel.
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Terri
Reg. Jan 2004
Posted 2006-11-01 1:27 PM (#50949 - in reply to #50923)
Subject: RE: Bo Derek, Willie Nelson and Horsemeat



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You are right in everything you wright, but the aution place that I have been to (P.A.) the horses that are sold to slaughter buyers are beaten in the pen and as the get on the truck.

Why are they beaten?  Because they wont get in the trailer?  If you think its excessive, report it to the sheriff.   Not all auctions are like this and people shouldn't assume all auctions beat the animals.  That would be like saying all boys have short hair and all girls wear makeup.

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loveduffy
Reg. Feb 2006
Posted 2006-11-01 9:36 PM (#50965 - in reply to #50949)
Subject: RE: Bo Derek, Willie Nelson and Horsemeat



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I know that not all auciotns are like this and yes the police and the human sociaty was call and wow they said that they get a lot of calls about this place. it was part of the job to get the horses on the trailers in a timely manner. I have never went back. I tell poeple do not  go to this place. other auciotion that I have been to have not been that bad( that is all folks
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Yvette
Reg. Jul 2006
Posted 2006-11-04 8:00 AM (#51086 - in reply to #47787)
Subject: RE: Bo Derek, Willie Nelson and Horsemeat



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http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/11/01/nelson.commentary/index.html

http://www.habitatforhorses.org/whatsnew/willienelson.html
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Terri
Reg. Jan 2004
Posted 2006-11-04 1:57 PM (#51107 - in reply to #47787)
Subject: RE: Bo Derek, Willie Nelson and Horsemeat



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Superhuman, unearthly strength, inherent gentleness. Humans abuse their power while horses use theirs only for good.  

I love the way they are trying to "humanize" the horse. 

 

The passage of the American Horse Slaughter Prevention Act (H.R. 503/S. 1915) would put in place a permanent and immediate ban on both the slaughter of horses in the U.S. and the exportation of live horses for slaughter abroad.

That may shut down the slaughter plants, but it will create far more problems than it solves.

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Terri
Reg. Jan 2004
Posted 2006-11-04 2:05 PM (#51108 - in reply to #51107)
Subject: RE: Bo Derek, Willie Nelson and Horsemeat



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These horses, from the special stock of one of the founders of the APHA, were to be auctioned after the owner died last year.

 

While he did take 11 horses (registered healthy animals), they are obviously not "representative" of what usually ends up at an auction.  Of course it will cause people to feel sorry that healthy horses are being sent to auction, why don't they adopt and advertize the average horse that goes through the ring.  The ones that bite, kicks, bucks, or has a bad joint and is unsafe to ride/handle.

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Terri
Reg. Jan 2004
Posted 2006-11-04 2:19 PM (#51109 - in reply to #51108)
Subject: RE: Bo Derek, Willie Nelson and Horsemeat



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I changed the picture in my profile to show my old mare.  That is what she looked like when I brought her home 4 years ago.  The sheriffs dpt caught someone leaving her on the side of the road.  They were just going to abandon her.  They said they didn't want to pay the vet to put her down and thought only cattle could be sold at the auction barn.   If this bill passes I expect a lot more will end up like her. 

Oh, she needed some teeth pulled, teeth floated her feet trimmed and a very strict de worming schedule.  She is now healthy and being ridden by my 5yr old. 

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rose
Reg. Feb 2004
Posted 2006-11-06 11:51 AM (#51167 - in reply to #47787)
Subject: RE: Bo Derek, Willie Nelson and Horsemeat




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Highlight: Unintended Consequences of a US Ban on the Human Slaughter of Horses

Horse Slaughter Ban: Get the Facts.

The House of Representatives recently passed HR 503 to ban the slaughter of horses in the United States. The bill is now moving to the Senate for a vote. The link to the Senate bill is:

Senate Bill


Horse owners should make informed decisions for dealing with end of life issues and unwanted horses. Although it may be an emotional decision for many, such decisions should be supported by factual information in order to avoid significant, negative consequences for horses.


Debate Issues

There has been a great deal of debate on this issue, with a great deal of misinformation being presented as fact. Many of the arguments that have been presented to stop slaughter, appeal to the emotions and consider horses as companion animals. Horses are considered livestock, both through their manner of care and housing, and by state and federal statutes. Horses are often treated like companion animals by their owners, and may even be referred to as "companion livestock. However, regardless of how we choose to categorize them, they are still horses, not dogs.

Another argument by supporters of the ban on slaughter: "people will care for all of the horses that we save each year" does not explain where the funding or resources will come from to care for these horses for the rest of their life. When you consider that over 90,000 horses were slaughtered in the U.S. in 2005 (1), who will undertake the costs and care of these horses for the rest of their lives, and the horses from the next year and the next...?

Many equine professionals (veterinarians, professors, etc.) have seen the bad side of the industry as well as the good. Many have been asked (or subpoenaed) to testify in cases where horses were so starved that they could not be brought back to health. They have also seen dangerous horses get passed on to other unsuspecting people, and as a result, people were injured.

There are options available for humane euthanasia of equines when they have reached the end of their useful life. It is important to recognize that when properly conducted, slaughter is a humane form of euthanasia as recognized by the American Association of Equine Practitioners (AAEP) and the American Veterinary Medical Association (AVMA). The slaughter option provides a humane alternative for unwanted horses when other means of euthanasia and carcass disposal are not practical, economical or available to some owners.

The current legislation prohibiting horse slaughter likely will result in unintended negative consequences for horses. There are insufficient resources and safeguards currently in place to properly care for all of the unwanted horses in the US. These deficiencies are not adequately addressed in the current legislation. Consequently, passage of the current legislation is opposed by many equine professionals because it will likely result in an increase in equine neglect and a decrease in humane care for many equine. This view is supported by research and data in the accompanying references.

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Frankie001%
Reg. Feb 2005
Posted 2006-11-06 2:22 PM (#51179 - in reply to #47787)
Subject: RE: Bo Derek, Willie Nelson and Horsemeat


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My grandmother lived on a farm which killed the chickens, pigs, cow, lambs, sheep for food and clothes.  She told me it was part of life.  She also taught me about keeping animals.  We have only one horse, we will be breeding her next year.  We only want one baby - what we can afford and love.  I do not like to any animal to be put to sleep or abused.  I have gone to auctions but not to a slaughter house.  Weither the answer is the slaughter house, the auction place, a retirement home.  There has to be a place for them.  I want my horse to live a happy life but I do not know the future.  I would not want my horse to starve to death either.  In the furture I am hoping for a middle of the road solution - but I do not see one so far.    

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loveduffy
Reg. Feb 2006
Posted 2006-11-06 9:32 PM (#51198 - in reply to #51179)
Subject: RE: Bo Derek, Willie Nelson and Horsemeat



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that is the anewer, we, as horse poeple, have to stop the unwanted slaughter is just one way to get rid of the over flow of unwanted.
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rose
Reg. Feb 2004
Posted 2006-11-15 8:04 PM (#51556 - in reply to #47787)
Subject: RE: Bo Derek, Willie Nelson and Horsemeat




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Maybe we should stop the importation of horses............
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