Posted 2012-04-11 3:16 PM (#143026 - in reply to #142998) Subject: RE: WHITE HORSES
Expert
Posts: 2453
Location: Northern Utah
I bought a beatiful Grey horse with black points, mane and tail years ago. 4 years later that horse is all white with just a dirty looking mane and tail, White legs and ears. All the black points are gone, It was registered as a colt as a Chestnut Roan. So I have first hand experience at how fast they change colors.
My problem is this horse must be related to Pig Pen. He is always filthy. And the white color shows it all.
Posted 2012-04-12 11:16 AM (#143040 - in reply to #142998) Subject: RE: WHITE HORSES
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 385
Location: high desert, CA.
Painted Horse;I too have a "pig pen", who as a young filly was a smokey gray color, now at 11 yrs, she is almost white, with a gray mane and tail. Her tail is of course always yellowed as being a mare, she dirties it up her self. At 3 yrs; and today at 11 yrs;
Posted 2012-04-14 2:42 PM (#143104 - in reply to #142998) Subject: RE: WHITE HORSES
Regular
Posts: 72
Location: New Mexico
Interesting article; I don't keep up w/ racing, though if I remember to, I will watch the Triple Crown races. Lovely GREY horse; he just 'greyed out' faster than average. Article has some facts correct, some way off...this horse is not and never was, a 'roan'; true roan is also a dominant, so a true roan MJST have one true roan parent(and there is some evidence that homozygousity for true roan in utero causes fetal death before birth). Grey is not a 'mix' of white and black hairsunless it is a true roan that is greying), and roan is not JUST a mix of red and white hairs...in fact, true roans are a mix of white and nearly any other color of hair, USUALLY either black(blue roan) or 'red'( 'red' roan, or more specifically, 'strawberry' roan(base color sorrel/chestnut) or bay roan(base color bay,...meaning having black 'points'...lower legs, ear tips, mane, and tail.)True roans are NOT roaned on the lower legs, head, or mane/tail; the color there is ONLY the solid base color.
There is ANOTHER form of 'roanING' that most people do not understand...SABINO roaning. It is part of the sabino 'syndrome, for want of a better word....a group of pattern manifestations considered to be part of 'pinto/paint' markings by many. "Roaning' of ANY part, or even ALL OVER, the body is only one part of sabino features; others are: wide 'bald' faces, facial white that extends onto the LOWER lip, disconnected 'spots' of white on the legs, high white on the legs, esp. the hinds, where it often comes to a upward 'point' on the FRONT of the leg, spot of pink skin around the genitals, eyes and/or muzzle, and even more-than-average white sclera showing around the eye, for example.(BTW, Clydesdales are NOTtrue roans; they carry SABINO characteristics, including 'roanING'! ).
A truly 'white' horse is not necessarily the result of a 'genetic mutation' ...wonder who the HECK the writer spoke to?? I have never known of a 'true' albino horse...because such would have PINK eyes; how many have seen that? Instead, you *might* get a horse w/ pink skin overall, white hair, and BLUE eyes.
I grew up riding/hanging out with, the kids of Paul Bond, the custom bootmaker from Nogales,AZ...any here heard of him? He became quite 'famous', though perhaps eventually mostly with the wealthy and celebrities? Paul died recentlyat a very advanced age, sad to say. Way back when, he was a ranked Pro Rodeo bronc rider, then a trick and Roman rider, prior to beginning the bootmaking business. Back then, they lived in Carlsbad, NM, where Paul had grown up; I lived nearby, on the then NM State Game Bird farm. By the time I was 'hanging out' w/ George and Eleanor, his kids, he had about retired the three horses he'd used in his trick riding act...they were three full siblings, 2 geldings and a mare, said to be 1/2 Arabians, and all three were PURE WHITE(NOT greyed-out), but with dark skin and deep brown eyes, just like most horses. Later, George found and bought a purebred QH mare,( sired by Waddy Joe, by Little Joe the Wrangler, for those who remember/know 'old' QH bloodlines!)...she'd been refused AQHA papers, because she was, just like "Sororro"," Thunder", and "Lightning", Paul's trick riding trio, a PURE WHITE, w/ dark skin and brown eyes(this was when AQHA, in what they considered their 'infinite wisdom', could still exclude horses based on what THEY considered 'inferior (??!!) coat color/patterns; they have only VERY recently been forced to acknowledge what is now KNOWN about coat colors and what causes them...about TIME!) But, I digress.... Nowadays, those are thought to be 'maximum expression SABINOS'. The ones w/ BLUE eyes, and 'not-quite-white'(more light cream)hair, and PINK skin, are CREMELLOS, a DILUTE(and a certain way to 'produce' Palominos, crossed w/ TRUE sorrels/chestnuts)---but not at ALL the 'same thing' genetically as a maximum Sabino!
Sorry for the 'book'; I just get really frustrated w/ misinformation/ignorance,ESP. in those who SHOULD be putting out the REAL, known, information(as in whoever wrote the referenced article.)Not referring to you, Gard! You are one of the most helpful posters here!!
Margo, aka olehossgal, who has been 'at this' horse stuff for over 60 years, and is still ALWAYS learning
Posted 2012-04-14 10:43 PM (#143107 - in reply to #143104) Subject: RE: WHITE HORSES
Expert
Posts: 2615
I had a full brother to my black/white tobiano MO foxtrotter that was a "strawberry" sabino.He appeared to be roan,but,didn't fit the categories for a roan plus,no roan parent.He actually came out almost exactly like the stallion was.He had a flax mane and tail,very flashy horse,high white socks and a very full blaze face.Just as you've described,at birth,he appeared to be sort of a "lemon" color.sabino is common among gaited horses,I believe it came in from the TWH lines in our breed.
Posted 2012-04-15 10:46 AM (#143120 - in reply to #142998) Subject: RE: WHITE HORSES
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 316
Location: Illinois
Will be interesting to see how this horse does.As for me when people ask the colors of my horses I say I have one bay and one dingy horse. :DGee I wonder how he does it? (bigger version of picture next to my name)