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Yet another truck question...

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terri s
Reg. Sep 2005
Posted 2011-07-01 8:05 AM (#135316)
Subject: Yet another truck question...


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Was looking at a Ford F150 w/eco boost. The salesman told me there was only 500 pounds payload difference between the 150 and the 250 so no real reason to buy the 250. Mmmmaybe, but part II of my question is this-the 150 only has a rear axle ratio of 3.55. From reading here, it seems that should be 3.75-4.10 for good hauling. So-is a 150 truly a replacement for a 250 and how much difference would that rear axle ratio make? Am hauling a 3H aluminum, 4' dressing room, usually only one horse, occasionally 2. Mostly flat terrain, couple of good hills around Wichita. Anyone?
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horsey1
Reg. Dec 2004
Posted 2011-07-01 8:15 AM (#135317 - in reply to #135316)
Subject: RE: Yet another truck question...


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The rear axle ratios you mentioned are good- but only as part of a package. Drivetrain is composed of an engine (with a specific powerband), transmission (whose internal gearing differs from one model to another), andf then the rear end which should be sized to give the proper road speed desired given 1 & 2. So if you trust your engineers, then trust their choice of gear ratio.

Now- on to braking.......150 vs. 250. No comparison in my opinion.

Just my opinion- if I mostly towed, I'd buy the 250. If I mostly daily drivered, I'd look hard at the 150.
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farmbabe
Reg. Nov 2003
Posted 2011-07-01 8:59 AM (#135318 - in reply to #135316)
Subject: RE: Yet another truck question...


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Agreed-If you are hauling go with the 250.
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terri s
Reg. Sep 2005
Posted 2011-07-01 9:21 AM (#135320 - in reply to #135316)
Subject: RE: Yet another truck question...


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That was my instinct too, the 250 or 3/4 ton of some sort anyway. Should have said "WILL be hauling"; don't have the trailer bought yet but that is what I'm looking to tow. Not a daily driver so while I try to be gas conscious I am more concerned the whole braking issue.
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docgj
Reg. Oct 2009
Posted 2011-07-01 9:28 AM (#135321 - in reply to #135316)
Subject: RE: Yet another truck question...


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Ford has an option called "Max Towing" it requires a 3.73 rear. It comes with a lot of upgrades for towing. Heavier springs, upgraded bushings(front and rear), larger rad/trans cooler/oil cooler, larger brakes, towing mirrors, etc. that should increase towing cap to 11,000 plus lbs. What does your trailer weigh loaded? 

We tow a 2 horse straight bp with dressing room. About 6,000 to 6,500 loaded with no problems. 3.73 rear older 5.4 V8. We are in the hills of northern Pa. Sucks gas but, I expected it would. 10 mpg towing 16 mpg daily driving.

Be careful if you go this route...salesmen don't seem to be knowledgable about this pkg. They will tell you that it is on the truck only to find that it is the standard towing pkg. Do your own research! Just went through this when looking for a used 2009 F150.

docgj



Edited by docgj 2011-07-01 9:30 AM
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gonzo1066
Reg. Oct 2010
Posted 2011-07-01 10:48 AM (#135324 - in reply to #135316)
Subject: RE: Yet another truck question...


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There are LOTS of salesmen that just want to make the deal.  They have no interest in your needs or wants.    JUST MAKE THE DEAL, tell the customer what ever works.    I was in a Ford dealership and the sales geek started telling me about the Cummins diesel engine in the Ford 350 truck??? He had no idea what he was selling.  Personally I would not tow with less than a 250 (3/4 ton) sized truck.   Just the horses and your safety is that important..  IMHO
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terri s
Reg. Sep 2005
Posted 2011-07-01 11:51 AM (#135325 - in reply to #135316)
Subject: RE: Yet another truck question...


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Gonzo, I certainly agree! I had to laugh, the salesman was giving his pitch, yada yada yada and I asked about a tow package and the rear axle ratio. Talk about a deer in the headlights. I stopped him before we got to "what color do you want that in?" because you can't convince me a red truck hauls better than a blue truck. Salesmen seem to think that's all a woman cares about in a vehicle even in this day and age.

So-3/4 ton it is. 

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terri s
Reg. Sep 2005
Posted 2011-07-01 11:52 AM (#135326 - in reply to #135321)
Subject: RE: Yet another truck question...


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Good to know about the "max towing" package-thank you!!!
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Painted Horse
Reg. May 2005
Posted 2011-07-02 8:27 AM (#135340 - in reply to #135316)
Subject: RE: Yet another truck question...



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There are several factors to consider with the various pickups.

Yes the F150 with the ecoboost has the horse power to pull a small horse trailer and will get better fuel mileage for your everyday driving.

The F150 are rated at around 1800lbs payload on the truck axles.  Most bumper pull trailers won't challenge that weight. But consider 4 occupants ( Mom, Dad and couple of teen age boys) you could have 600-700lbs of people.  Add some hay in the bed, camp gear etc and you've got another 300-400 lbs  Leaving 800lbs of capacity, which is what a good bumper pull will add to the hitch. ( 10% of an 8000lb trailer) So you would be maxed out on payload capacity, yet still way under the specs for what the truck can pull.  Pulling any kind of gooseneck is almost automatically eliminated.  If you are driving yourself and maybe a daughter with 1 or 2 horses to a saturday horse show with no overnight gear, The F150 is probably a good choice. And will make you a more efficient chase around vehicle for the rest of the week.  Of course the towing capacities go up some if you get the 4x2 or regular cab or short bed truck. Since the weight of the actual truck goes down with fewer options that a fully loaded truck.

Also the F150 is lighter than any of the Superduty trucks. A lighter tow vehicles allows the trailer to have more of an effect. Consider the forces needed to push or sway a 5500lb truck vs a 8000lb truck. Coupled with the longer wheel base of the Superduty gives you a more stable tow vehicle in the larger truck.

Next consider fuel mileage. The smaller gas engine will do it's work at a higher rpm to get the power needed to tow a load. So fuel mileage will drop from the advertized mileage.  The new 6.7L diesel in the Superduties is getting 14-15 mpg around town and 21-22 mpg on the hiway, So almost the fuel mileage as the F150,  The ecoboost has 420 ft/lbs of torque vs 800 ft/lbs of torque in the diesel.  But gas is still 30 cents a gallon cheaper than diesel.  The F150 will be cheaper to drive for daily driving, But won't save any money when asked to work hard as a tow vehicle.

The big difference you will find is that pretty well loaded F150 will sticker for $45,000 vs a well equiped Superduty at $60,000.

Bottom line, Of course buy what you can afford. Buy the vehicle for the hardest work you expect it to do.  We all make compromises. And the job of the salesman is to try and understand your wants vs needs and make a suggestion.  I'm sure the salesman woud rather sell you a $60,000 truck vs a $45,000 truck.  So he must have some motivation for suggesting the F150.   An F150 may get by towing your horses and be a great weekday truck , while a Superduty may do the work of towing better, but be a lousy drive to work truck.

 

 

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chadsalt
Reg. Nov 2004
Posted 2011-07-02 4:19 PM (#135343 - in reply to #135316)
Subject: RE: Yet another truck question...


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Personally I have had my sights set square on a 4x4 supercab 8' bed F150 w/ecoboost.........with the HD payload package (7 lug, GVWR 8200#).  That salesman is not completely full of BS.  With the HD payload package the F150 has 2400# of rated payload compared to the 2600# of my Dmax.  Trailer "rating" is down from 15K to 11K, compared to my Dmax, that's a power issue though.  Something to ask about if you're interested in the F150.  Most people can't get past the "F150" in the name to understand the HD package...they still think it's a "1/2 ton".

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Painted Horse
Reg. May 2005
Posted 2011-07-02 5:02 PM (#135344 - in reply to #135343)
Subject: RE: Yet another truck question...



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In lalte 1996 I bought one of Fords New body styled pickups. They had redesigned the F150  at that time and the New Super Duty had not come out yet. It was a first for Ford to have a different body style for it's light duty ( F150) vs its heavy duty ( F250-350) Back then they didn't have the heavy duty F150.  They still called it a F250 , But it was the same body as the F150, same drive train,  It just had the 7lug wheels and a heavier load capacity. Ford felt that it comfused too many people, So they discontinued the F250 in the light duty body style.

I pulled a steel 3 horse bumper pull with that trailer for 3 years. Other than the engine reving high and sounding like it was going to explode on every mountain that I had to climb. It did the job very well. It sounds like the F150 hd version is about the same as my old F250. Only with 15 year newer technolgy.

 

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PaulChristenson
Reg. Jan 2007
Posted 2011-07-02 5:33 PM (#135345 - in reply to #135324)
Subject: RE: Yet another truck question...


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Originally written by gonzo1066 on 2011-07-01 10:48 AM

There are LOTS of salesmen that just want to make the deal.  They have no interest in your needs or wants.    JUST MAKE THE DEAL, tell the customer what ever works.    I was in a Ford dealership and the sales geek started telling me about the Cummins diesel engine in the Ford 350 truck??? He had no idea what he was selling.  Personally I would not tow with less than a 250 (3/4 ton) sized truck.   Just the horses and your safety is that important..  IMHO


Well stated...
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chadsalt
Reg. Nov 2004
Posted 2011-07-02 6:48 PM (#135346 - in reply to #135344)
Subject: RE: Yet another truck question...


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Originally written by Painted Horse on 2011-07-02 5:02 PM

In lalte 1996 I bought one of Fords New body styled pickups. They had redesigned the F150  at that time and the New Super Duty had not come out yet. It was a first for Ford to have a different body style for it's light duty ( F150) vs its heavy duty ( F250-350) Back then they didn't have the heavy duty F150.  They still called it a F250 , But it was the same body as the F150, same drive train,  It just had the 7lug wheels and a heavier load capacity. Ford felt that it comfused too many people, So they discontinued the F250 in the light duty body style.

I pulled a steel 3 horse bumper pull with that trailer for 3 years. Other than the engine reving high and sounding like it was going to explode on every mountain that I had to climb. It did the job very well. It sounds like the F150 hd version is about the same as my old F250. Only with 15 year newer technolgy.

 

Yep, same as the old 'standard' F250.  The "high reving" has been fixed with a turbo, this 3.5 Ecoboost probably has more power than diesels of 15 years ago.  According to pickuptruck.com they pulled 9000lbs of trailer up Cajon pass at 60mph @ 3000 rpm in 4th.  Power reports from everyone I've talked to are similar.  For reference my Dmax will turn 2500rpm in 4th running the same speed/load/grade.  Mpg in the 3.5 Eco are not as good while towing as the Dmax, but empty they are ~15% better while running on cheaper fuel.  If the Dmax was my daily driver, it would have found itself on the used side of a Ford lot some time ago.

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terri s
Reg. Sep 2005
Posted 2011-07-03 9:05 AM (#135352 - in reply to #135316)
Subject: RE: Yet another truck question...


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So let me add this to the question-do I really NEED 4WD? I would rather have just a regular 3/4 ton because of the gas mileage, seems like they are all 4WD. Again, not my daily driver. And I would sure prefer a true long bed, although those are getting harder to find. And I am NOT in a position to drop $40-60 on a truck. It will definitely have to be a used vehicle.
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Painted Horse
Reg. May 2005
Posted 2011-07-03 12:29 PM (#135354 - in reply to #135316)
Subject: RE: Yet another truck question...



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Terri,  Only you know what kind of terrain you drive.  If you never leave the pavement  and only drive it in the nice weather,  Then no, you don't need 4x4.

do you drive into the pasture when the grass is wet?  Do you camp out in areas where it could be very slick after an afternoon thundershower? Do you get snow where you live and will you drive in the snow? Do you ever go hunting or fishing that may require you to drive down a Forest Service or BLM road to a remote site? Do you have lots of friends close by that can come pull you out if you get stuck or are you a very independant individual that is often in places where friends just are not close by?  Do you trailer and go riding a lot by yourself?

Any of these would be enough of a reason for me to purchase a 4x4 vs a regular 4x2. Here in Utah you can't hardly find a 4x2 truck unless it's a stripped down fleet or delivery vehicle. And if you do find a two wheel drive truck, It's usually one that somebody brought with them when they moved to Utah from Texas and traded in after the first winter.

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terri s
Reg. Sep 2005
Posted 2011-07-03 12:52 PM (#135355 - in reply to #135316)
Subject: RE: Yet another truck question...


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OK, had to laugh about trading it in after winter! No, I don't do any of those things. I guess I am what you call a "parking lot princess". Drive to horse shows across Kansas and into Oklahoma. Just seemed like an unnecessary added expense. Guess not!
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trot-on
Reg. Dec 2009
Posted 2011-07-03 1:53 PM (#135356 - in reply to #135316)
Subject: RE: Yet another truck question...


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I'd go with the 3/4 ton. You will then have more flexibility to your trailer purchase, and not as limited to size weight. You mention 1 horse, maybe 2, but a 3 horse trailer. Only a guess that you may plan on using the 3rd spot to haul "stuff", so you need to consider your loaded weight of the trailer, not just what they way out of the factory and adding horses. All our stuff adds weight pretty quick.

Females going truck shopping often have to deal with some real bozo salesmen. Impressed you shut him down before he got to color and vanity mirrors. When hubby and I went looking for our 1 ton dually, 4x4, they would always start to look him in the eye and talk to him, ignoring me. He say "Don't talk to me, it is HER truck!"

Good luck getting your new rig, and many happy miles with
your horses in tow
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jarmstrong
Reg. Mar 2009
Posted 2011-07-03 4:54 PM (#135358 - in reply to #135352)
Subject: RE: Yet another truck question...


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Location: blacksburg va

while I may not NEED 4wd I am glad I have almost every time I pull something.It may simply be using it to not spin and dig someones field or low range to creep up a hill but I would not be without it now or in the future if at all possible.

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terri s
Reg. Sep 2005
Posted 2011-07-04 7:40 AM (#135371 - in reply to #135356)
Subject: RE: Yet another truck question...


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Originally written by trot-on on 2011-07-03 1:53 PM

When hubby and I went looking for our 1 ton dually, 4x4, they would always start to look him in the eye and talk to him, ignoring me. He say "Don't talk to me, it is HER truck!" Good luck getting your new rig, and many happy miles with your horses in tow

Yes, mine did this same thing. He finally had to leave the room because the salesman wouldn't talk to me. We didn't buy at that dealership either! A friend buying one a short time ago kind of got the "Waall, whaddya need such a big truck for, little lady?" Don't you just love it?

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