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Safely boosting fuel economy on newer diesels

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dgeesaman
Reg. Aug 2007
Posted 2010-12-02 4:54 PM (#127717)
Subject: Safely boosting fuel economy on newer diesels


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My 2008 F-250 is getting around 12mpg on hand calc. This is a perfectly stock truck and from what I hear pretty normal.I also understand that reducing restriction, deleting the DPF/Regen system, and getting an aftermarket tuner will boost MPG. But I don't want a loud, sooty, gross polluting, less reliable truck that can't be serviced. (I know Ford will kick my warranty to the curb, let's get that out of the way)

I want to delete the DPF and install a tuner to run a towing tune. If you've done this, I'd like to know what tuner, what mpg increase you saw, and how loud/polluting it is. I'd also like to know if you had work done on the truck and if having a tuner created issues with diagnostics.

Sidebar:

I know you're not supposed to remove the DPF, so I'm also curious if anyone knows about the likelihood of catching legal flack for it. I plan to leave in the DOC and EGR. I personally struggle to see the greater good in adding a DPF that causes the truck to use 30% more fuel per mile and 30% more total emissions just to stop diesel soot.

Thanks, David

Edited by dgeesaman 2010-12-02 4:56 PM
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PaulChristenson
Reg. Jan 2007
Posted 2010-12-02 5:12 PM (#127718 - in reply to #127717)
Subject: RE: Safely boosting fuel economy on newer diesels


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Originally written by dgeesaman on 2010-12-02 4:54 PM

My 2008 F-250 is getting around 12mpg on hand calc. This is a perfectly stock truck and from what I hear pretty normal.I also understand that reducing restriction, deleting the DPF/Regen system, and getting an aftermarket tuner will boost MPG. But I don't want a loud, sooty, gross polluting, less reliable truck that can't be serviced. (I know Ford will kick my warranty to the curb, let's get that out of the way)

I want to delete the DPF and install a tuner to run a towing tune. If you've done this, I'd like to know what tuner, what mpg increase you saw, and how loud/polluting it is. I'd also like to know if you had work done on the truck and if having a tuner created issues with diagnostics.

Sidebar:

I know you're not supposed to remove the DPF, so I'm also curious if anyone knows about the likelihood of catching legal flack for it. I plan to leave in the DOC and EGR. I personally struggle to see the greater good in adding a DPF that causes the truck to use 30% more fuel per mile and 30% more total emissions just to stop diesel soot.

Thanks, David


CURRENTLY...In the case of diesel vehicles, there is no requirement for vehicle emissions inspection & maintenance in Pennsylvania...but if they are ever added to the inspection list in the future...you'd have to have the parts put back on the truck...(SO, if you remove them...do NOT throw them away) similar to what happened when vehicles required to use unleaded fuel had been running leaded fuel and had destroyed their catalytic converter, those people had to have NEW catalytic converters installed...
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wyndancer
Reg. Apr 2007
Posted 2010-12-03 8:20 AM (#127731 - in reply to #127717)
Subject: RE: Safely boosting fuel economy on newer diesels


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I think you need to arrive at the cost of said improvements, then find out when the ROI (return on investment) is. Unless drivabilty is first and foremost. The time to recover a couple thousand in improvements...say 2 mpg at $3.40/gallon...it may not be worth it.
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Painted Horse
Reg. May 2005
Posted 2010-12-03 9:46 AM (#127732 - in reply to #127717)
Subject: RE: Safely boosting fuel economy on newer diesels



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The 6.4 is notorius for poor fuel economy.  I did have a 7.3 and 6.0 and the aftermarket programers did help a little but not enough to ever recover the cost of installing the programers and new exhaust.  so I'm with Wyndancer here, You may gain 1-2 mpg, But you will never save enough to recoup.  So if you add the programer, It.s because you want the horsepower gains, not the fuel mileage.

On a different note. I bought one of the new 6.7L engines.  Towing the same trailers, I'm seeing about a 1 mpg increase over my 6.0L fuel mileage while towing.  But empty I'm seeing 2-3 mpg better around town and 5 mpg better on long highway drives where I'm empty.  If you are going to spend some money, I suggest you purchase a 2011 truck with the 6.7L.  I realize you may be coming from a different truck use than myself.  I buy a new truck every 4-5 years  because I put a lot of miles on  mine.

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hogtownboss
Reg. Sep 2008
Posted 2010-12-03 11:37 AM (#127737 - in reply to #127717)
Subject: RE: Safely boosting fuel economy on newer diesels


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Originally written by dgeesaman on 2010-12-02 4:54 PM

My 2008 F-250 is getting around 12mpg on hand calc. This is a perfectly stock truck and from what I hear pretty normal.I also understand that reducing restriction, deleting the DPF/Regen system, and getting an aftermarket tuner will boost MPG. But I don't want a loud, sooty, gross polluting, less reliable truck that can't be serviced. (I know Ford will kick my warranty to the curb, let's get that out of the way)

I want to delete the DPF and install a tuner to run a towing tune. If you've done this, I'd like to know what tuner, what mpg increase you saw, and how loud/polluting it is. I'd also like to know if you had work done on the truck and if having a tuner created issues with diagnostics.

Sidebar:

I know you're not supposed to remove the DPF, so I'm also curious if anyone knows about the likelihood of catching legal flack for it. I plan to leave in the DOC and EGR. I personally struggle to see the greater good in adding a DPF that causes the truck to use 30% more fuel per mile and 30% more total emissions just to stop diesel soot.

Thanks, David

Sorry I am late, but here goes.  The best thing that could ever happen to your truck is to rid of the extra EPA mess ASAP!

The Ford takes a little longer to reinstall the DPF mess to have service work done or inspections done (if needed) that my Dodge does but it makes these trucks run much better, much cooler exhaust temps and better fuel economy!  We did a 09 F-250 a few weeks back with an H&S Programmer and delete kit and set the programmer on the 60hp setting and has NO smoke at all.  With this kit you just unplug the egr and the programmer turns if off and there is NO CHECK ENGINE LIGHT problems.  Also the Ford do NOT get loud like most people think, if the muffler is removed it has a little deeper sound than factory but nothing more.  Ford has a much better tranny for these upgrades than any of the other trucks right now.  We found a good all around setting for towing and fuel economy is the 60hp setting.  But on my Dodge I have did some testing and found that the 120hp setting does best for me on fuel economy if I am just driving and not doing any towing.

On the Dodges like mine this kit with no muffler makes them sound like the older 5.9 engines and the only time I get any smoke out of mine is if I use the 120hp or 175hp settings.  But until someone offers aftermarket parts for the Dodge C/C trannys I have to leave mine set on the 60hp setting to save the tranny while towing.

On my Dodge it takes me and 1 other person about 40 mins. to return it back to stock with no signs of ever being changed.  All of the aftermarkte kits are all bolt on parts for the exhaust so there is no cutting or need to removed factory hangers.  The Ford is a litlte longer because they have more bolts holding everything on.  Dodge has 4 on the DPF and Ford has like 8 or so.

Another test we did was the new testing on diesels (that the EPA has started out West) and my truck passes the snap (smoke) test but will not pass the visual test until I reinstall the DPF and plug in the egr.

We have not checked the fuel mileage on the Ford we adjusted but it does run like a different truck now.  I know on my Dodge driving empty 80 miles a day with 20 of them being intown and with the cruise set on 70 while on the hwy I have been getting 18mpg.

There is a couple of companies that are good with Fords, you can go to www.powerstroke.org and there is a section just for this year models and they have tons of info.  Spartan and H&S both have a great product and a good price for a mild tune and DPF delete kit.

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dgeesaman
Reg. Aug 2007
Posted 2010-12-03 12:06 PM (#127741 - in reply to #127717)
Subject: RE: Safely boosting fuel economy on newer diesels


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Thanks for the feedback. The Spartan kit is top notch but at $1200+ for the package not attractive to me. H&S has a new kit that comes in at $800 with the DPF replacement pipe included. For the 6.4's you can get good increases in fuel economy, on the order of 4mpg.

The other problem I have with this regen system is that by injecting the diesel fuel from the cylinders it tends to increase wear and push diesel into the engine oil. Even if you change your oil more often ($$) you will see more wear if the oil is low on viscosity most of the time ($$ in the long run). So I see a gain in long term engine life issue as well that Ford doesn't care about because their warranty is not long term.

I already ran the math on this, and assuming I went from 12mpg to 16mpg our $3.25/gallon diesel ($0.27/mi vs. 0.20/mi) will pay off in about 12k miles. That's pretty compelling stuff no matter how you tweak the numbers. The improved driveability, diagnostic functions, and engine life are bonuses.

Hogtown, is there a significant difference in MPG by disabling the EGR vs. leaving it functional? I'm only aware of the reliablity issues of the EGR on the 6.0's.

David
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hogtownboss
Reg. Sep 2008
Posted 2010-12-03 12:52 PM (#127744 - in reply to #127717)
Subject: RE: Safely boosting fuel economy on newer diesels


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All I know is the egr is part of what pulling spent gases back into the engine.

When I bought my truck I was changing the oil every 3-k miles or so because is was nasty as soon as I changed it.  Since I have done this delete kit I have extended my service to 7500 miles and still have petty clean oil.  So I am not only getting better fuel mileage I am saving money on oil changes.

The first 20-k miles the oil was changed 6 times @ $65.00 a time that is $390.00

Since the kit being installed at 20-k miles and extending the service to 7500 miles I have had the oil changed (this week makes) 5 times @ $65.00 at the total cost of $325.00.  My truck has 57-k on it now so I have gone 37-k miles for $325. in oil changes compaired to 20-k miles for $325. in oil changes.  If my math is right I cut my cost well over half in just oil changes.

Most people just look at the price they pay up front and try to figure out if a couple of miles per gallon will justify the cost.  The way I look at it is who cares about the cost "is it going to make my truck run better and or last longer".  I can not figure out why anyone would want to put the spent exhaust gases back into the enigne to re-run it again

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dgeesaman
Reg. Aug 2007
Posted 2010-12-03 5:02 PM (#127747 - in reply to #127744)
Subject: RE: Safely boosting fuel economy on newer diesels


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Posts: 92
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I can not figure out why anyone would want to put the spent exhaust gases back into the enigne to re-run it again

As far as I know, EGR issues include the risk of EGR cooler failure and clogging EGR valves. But not a fuel economy. Merely disabling the EGR valve does not solve the major problem of the 6.0 which is EGR cooler failure.The only downside I can see for EGR in diesels is slight increase in contaminants pumped through the engine. This can pollute the oil prematurely (keep an eye on TAN/TBN). http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/349/egr-oil-diesel-engines Personally I will not disable my EGR because it's so effective at reducing NOx emissions.
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