'
1
Forums Albums Skins 1
Search Register Logon


You are logged in as a guest. Logon or register an account to access more features.
OTHER FORUMS:    Barrel Horses  -   Trucks   -   Cutting  -   Reining  -   Roping 
'
Question for Gard, or anyone who can answer

Jump to page : 1
Now viewing page 1 [25 messages per page]
Last activity 2010-07-28 1:08 AM
12 replies, 4684 views

View previous thread :: View next thread
   General Discussion -> Trailer Talk  Click to return to Barrel Talk
Refresh
Message format
 
Kay
Reg. Oct 2003
Posted 2010-07-26 5:21 PM (#122809)
Subject: Question for Gard, or anyone who can answer


Extreme Veteran


Posts: 534
50025
Location: Zionsville, Indiana

Gard -  The only time our big LQ trailer is not plugged into a 110 outlet is when it is going down the road.  It is plugged into a 30 amp plug at the barn while it sits there, and the air or the heat is running when necessary.  Yesterday when ducking between the trailer and the back of the truck, I heard a sizzling noise coming from the battery box on the exterior of the jack wall.  The exterior of the battery box was very hot to the touch.  When opened, I found one battery that was also very hot, and disconnected both batteries and removed them.  I haven't yet taken them down to my shop so the guys could look at them.

Could it have been overcharged by the converter?  Is it not a good idea to keep a trailer plugged into 110?  We have been doing this for many years.  It really scared me, as it was hot enough to cause a fire given enough time, and the trailer sits next to the barn.

I feel really stupid about this, and if what we have been doing is not advisable, I need to tell my customers and clients about it.  We do not do any interior work on LQs, but sub it out to a mobile outfit.  I haven't called them yet.

share Top of the page Bottom of the page
BlazingCreekBar
Reg. Nov 2008
Posted 2010-07-26 6:24 PM (#122814 - in reply to #122809)
Subject: RE: Question for Gard, or anyone who can answer


Extreme Veteran


Posts: 420
100100100100
Location: Florida

Great topic I will jump in.  I will stay brief and to the point derived from experience.

If you are not installing a converter with charge control module you will boil your batteries dry.  Not all converters have this feature although more and more do.

I added the Charge wizard and have never have had a water issue in my batteries again.  I leave my batteries connected to shore power 24x7 when docked at home.  I do not run any appliances while in the yard.  I do remove all but the electric jack battery in deep winter and store indoors.

Below are a few links that explain the process fairly well including a chart for recharging time.

http://www.progressivedyn.com/prod_details/charge_wizard.html

http://www.marxrv.com/12volt/12volt.htm

http://www.marxrv.com/12volt/12volta.htm

 



Edited by BlazingCreekBar 2010-07-26 6:25 PM
share Top of the page Bottom of the page
captclank
Reg. Feb 2006
Posted 2010-07-26 6:45 PM (#122816 - in reply to #122809)
Subject: RE: Question for Gard, or anyone who can answer


Veteran


Posts: 116
100
Location: desert hills, az
I sure don't know the answer, but have a follow up question: In the same situation (plugged in all the time) would shutting off the master switch to the batteries keep them from overcharging or boiling over? Thanks
share Top of the page Bottom of the page
gard
Reg. Aug 2007
Posted 2010-07-26 7:29 PM (#122818 - in reply to #122816)
Subject: RE: Question for Gard, or anyone who can answer


Expert


Posts: 5870
50005001001001002525
Location: western PA

Originally written by captclank on 2010-07-26 7:45 PM

I sure don't know the answer, but have a follow up question: In the same situation (plugged in all the time) would shutting off the master switch to the batteries keep them from overcharging or boiling over? Thanks

Yes. It would open the circuit to the batteries, which would eliminate any charging from the converter.

share Top of the page Bottom of the page
captclank
Reg. Feb 2006
Posted 2010-07-26 7:42 PM (#122819 - in reply to #122809)
Subject: RE: Question for Gard, or anyone who can answer


Veteran


Posts: 116
100
Location: desert hills, az
Gard, thanks. This is what I have been doing for years and didn't have any problems. It maybe the solution for the OP also.
share Top of the page Bottom of the page
gard
Reg. Aug 2007
Posted 2010-07-26 7:44 PM (#122820 - in reply to #122809)
Subject: RE: Question for Gard, or anyone who can answer


Expert


Posts: 5870
50005001001001002525
Location: western PA
Originally written by Kay on 2010-07-26 6:21 PM

Gard -    When opened, I found one battery that was also very hot, and disconnected both batteries and removed them.  Could it have been overcharged by the converter?  Is it not a good idea to keep a trailer plugged into 110?  We have been doing this for many years.  It really scared me, as it was hot enough to cause a fire given enough time, and the trailer sits next to the barn.

Some of the newer power centers with converters have graduated charging systems that will not over charge a battery. They are very efficient and will properly maintain batteries while being stored or used hard. Some of the older converters will not taper off enough when the battery is charged, and will overcharge an unused battery. This will cause overheating, boiling water, damaged plates and ruin the battery.

It is less expensive to add a good battery maintenance charging system and turn off the master battery switch, than it is to swap out a power center with a better converter/charger. You can permanately install it or have a temporary cord supply, that you unhook when you want to use the trailer.

Hope you are doing well. BOL

share Top of the page Bottom of the page
BlazingCreekBar
Reg. Nov 2008
Posted 2010-07-26 7:56 PM (#122821 - in reply to #122809)
Subject: RE: Question for Gard, or anyone who can answer


Extreme Veteran


Posts: 420
100100100100
Location: Florida

I agree with Gard. Those buggers are expensive.   

I was lucky enough to be able to purchase the add on Charge Wizzard for my brand.  Check your model and research its capabilities for charge control. And hopefully any inexpensive add-ons.

share Top of the page Bottom of the page
Kay
Reg. Oct 2003
Posted 2010-07-27 8:27 AM (#122841 - in reply to #122809)
Subject: RE: Question for Gard, or anyone who can answer


Extreme Veteran


Posts: 534
50025
Location: Zionsville, Indiana
Thanks, everyone.  We obviously should have turned the master switch off while parked and plugged in, but didn't.  I have a call in to our mobile RV service man, and will show him the good suggestions listed here and ask his advice.  The trailer is about four years old, so we had plenty of time to ruin the batteries.  Hopefully our converter will lend itself to improvement without getting too deep into our pockets.  Thanks again for all the advice.  Gard, how do you know so much about so many topics.  You just amaze me.
share Top of the page Bottom of the page
BlazingCreekBar
Reg. Nov 2008
Posted 2010-07-27 11:37 AM (#122855 - in reply to #122809)
Subject: RE: Question for Gard, or anyone who can answer


Extreme Veteran


Posts: 420
100100100100
Location: Florida

If your capable and into learning a bit for yourself.  Pop off the covers of those batteries you removed gently with a flat screw driver end.  Use a flashlight and look inside.  Is the fluid covering the gray plates?  If not Purchase a gal of distilled water (purple cap) from Walmart (In the water isle) add water from that gal to just cover the plates.  You may save the batteries and save yourself a few hundred dollars in battery costs.

Next find in your LQ the electrical area.  Your converter is the box with a fan on it and may be attached so it is venting into the living space.  (these things need to cool themselves)  Write down the brand and model number.  You can post it here (we can help too) and also locate it on the internet.  Hopefully determining what options you have to upgrade economically if any.

 

share Top of the page Bottom of the page
gard
Reg. Aug 2007
Posted 2010-07-27 12:19 PM (#122858 - in reply to #122809)
Subject: RE: Question for Gard, or anyone who can answer


Expert


Posts: 5870
50005001001001002525
Location: western PA

There are several sources and brands of battery maintenance devices, if your power center can't be upgraded. Here's one

http://batterytender.com/

Kay, with your business, you can probably get these types of devices wholesale, and sell them to your customers, who may have similar difficulties. They work well over our winters when the trailers may sit dormant for several months.

The best part of this forum is the varied amount of info that is available. We are all fortunate to have this readily accessible. Thank you for your many contributions; we have enjoyed your valuable infomation from an expert, that is both unbiased and correct.

share Top of the page Bottom of the page
Kay
Reg. Oct 2003
Posted 2010-07-27 3:32 PM (#122867 - in reply to #122809)
Subject: RE: Question for Gard, or anyone who can answer


Extreme Veteran


Posts: 534
50025
Location: Zionsville, Indiana
Thank you for the link to "Battery Tender".  I am going to order one for another purpose.  One of my techs mentioned a similar item this spring and I kind of forgot about it.  I have a 1999 Sebring convertible (my mid life crisis toy) that I bought new and it has 38,000 miles on it.  Obviously it doesn't get out on the road much unless the weather is just perfect, and during the winter sits for months.  Every spring the battery is dead despite my resolve to start it every few weeks.  I never do, and so I have bought quite a few batteries.  The annoying part is that to get to the battery in this car, you have to remove the left front wheel!  What a pain.  I am going to have this nice little battery tender attached to that car and it sounds like it will solve the problem.  I may buy two and use one on the trailer. 
share Top of the page Bottom of the page
gard
Reg. Aug 2007
Posted 2010-07-27 3:50 PM (#122869 - in reply to #122809)
Subject: RE: Question for Gard, or anyone who can answer


Expert


Posts: 5870
50005001001001002525
Location: western PA

I store some cars, a boat, two trailers, and a tractor with batteries every winter. I can't recharge them all every month as I should, and replacing frozen batteries would get expensive.

A couple of years ago I bought a couple of these inexpensive float chargers. They worked well and I bought more. They will not charge a dead battery, and are only used when installed on freshly charged batteries. They're perfect for stored vehicles.

http://www.harborfreight.com/automatic-battery-float-charger-42292.html

share Top of the page Bottom of the page
tr0y
Reg. Mar 2009
Posted 2010-07-28 1:08 AM (#122882 - in reply to #122809)
Subject: RE: Question for Gard, or anyone who can answer


Veteran


Posts: 114
100
Location: Home of the WNFR at Christmas
Kay -

I hope I can help a bit with your battery issues and maybe give you some suggestions to make LQ power a bit more fun and interesting. I deal with big deep cycle batteries daily as I live in a solar powered, non grid tied home.

Yes, the converter did overcharge your batteries, would be my guess it either failed or it has no voltage or temperature compensation circuitry. Two things could have happened to the batteries they got cooked and are junk or you may have unwittingly run an equalization charge and your batteries may be in great shape. You should really look into a good three stage charger or an inverter charger.

The way to check the battery condition is to let the batteries sit for at least three hours with no loads of any kind on them and check cell voltage they should be between about 2.2 and 2.4 depending on what kind of batteries they are. If they are close I bet they are still good.

Next my real rant, converters are junk there is not a good one made period, why take 120V and down-convert to 12, 24, or 48V depending on the system, I am going to take some guesses here but I am going to say maybe two 12V batteries in parallel or two 6V in series to make 12V and the converter passes 120V to the charger and into 120V plugs in the LQ.

Why not just replace the converter with a good inverter charger,( Xantrex, Trace, Outback, Tripp-Lite or so many more) for a trailer I would go with modified sine wave, with temperature compensation and a true three stage charger with settable parameters for bulk, absorb, and float charging, you then have 120V even when not tied to shore power or a genset. This would keep your batteries in top shape with no overheat or overcharge danger.

Now for batteries, you might want to look into some adsorbed glass mat ( AGM or VRLA) sealed batteries as they can take a bit more abuse, have quite abit more amperage pushed to them in the charging process, are safer no acid clouds when charging, and have a deeper depth of discharge capability ( 50% v 80%) and there is no maintenance involved, I use lifeline batteries and love them.

With some minor changes and a modern battery power system your troubles will be a thing of the past.


share Top of the page Bottom of the page
Jump to page : 1
Now viewing page 1 [25 messages per page]
Jump to forum :
Search this forum
Printer friendly version
E-mail a link to this thread
Message format
 

'
Registered to: Horse Trailer World
(Delete all cookies set by this site)