Posted 2009-05-18 8:24 AM (#105067) Subject: Heavy pulling
I am not sure if this has been discussed or not. What do most of you use to pull 17-20K+? Do you use your daily driver or have a dedicated rig? We haul a couple of times a month a few hundred miles. Thanks
Posted 2009-05-18 9:42 AM (#105070 - in reply to #105067) Subject: RE: Heavy pulling
Expert
Posts: 1351 Location: Decatur, Texas
17-k to 20-k+ are you talking gross of truck and trailer or trailer only?
The trailer I have now when hooked to the truck and we are loaded with 3 horses and ready for a weekend trip, we gross just under 25-k lbs and I use a 07 Dodge 3500 C/C with 6.7 Cummins and 6spd. auto and have a new XRT dpf delete kit and tuner with an S&B intake kit. Was getting right around 10.8 mpg loaded before the work, now we are getting over 12 loaded thru the Texas hill country. Empty I was getting almost 14mpg, now I am getting almost 18!
Use it mainly for towing, but will drive it during the week if needed.
If you are talking about gross weight of truck and trailer, a 3/4 ton truck might work for you.
Posted 2009-05-18 12:55 PM (#105078 - in reply to #105073) Subject: RE: Heavy pulling
Expert
Posts: 1351 Location: Decatur, Texas
Originally written by fgc on 2009-05-18 10:58 AM
We have an 18'LQ, 4 horse, Bloomer 16,600 empty. I have a 08 Ford F350 6.4 that will pull ok. I am not as sure about the stopping power.
In my opinion, I would find at least a F-450, because it sure seams like your F-350 is going to be MAXED OUT all the way around. Just a guess but looks like you are going to be grossed around 31-k lbs PLUS!
16600lbs. trailer
8500lbs. truck (+/-) this is what my truck weighs.
5300lbs. 4 horse again what my weighs (2@1350lbs, 1@1400lbs, 1@1200lbs)
600lbs. 100 gallons of fresh water (50lq/50 horses)
31000lbs. without tack, living quarter stuff (food/ice chest) and people that will be riding with you will all figure into this.
Posted 2009-05-18 2:26 PM (#105085 - in reply to #105067) Subject: RE: Heavy pulling
Location: Central Arkansas
I pull a Bloomer 17SW that is 34' on the box with a Freightliner Sportchassis. I have a Ford F450 for when I go places that I know will need a 4WD. But, I am not as comfortable pulling something that big with the 450 . Even though Ford says it is plenty of truck for that size trailer, I am not sure if it could stop it in time to avoid an accident. The trailer does have elec/hydraulic brakes on it.
A wise man once told me that the truck should outweigh the trailer.
Posted 2009-05-18 3:57 PM (#105091 - in reply to #105085) Subject: RE: Heavy pulling
Expert
Posts: 1416 Location: sc
Originally written by brushycreekranch on 2009-05-18 2:26 PM
I pull a Bloomer 17SW that is 34' on the box with a Freightliner Sportchassis. I have a Ford F450 for when I go places that I know will need a 4WD. But, I am not as comfortable pulling something that big with the 450 . Even though Ford says it is plenty of truck for that size trailer, I am not sure if it could stop it in time to avoid an accident. The trailer does have elec/hydraulic brakes on it.
A wise man once told me that the truck should outweigh the trailer.
That advice can get out of hand really quick. Consider a class 8 semi tractor only weighs in around 16,000 lbs.
For a 17K-20K trailer being hauled a few times a month a 1 ton dually should be plenty.
Posted 2009-05-18 5:01 PM (#105096 - in reply to #105073) Subject: RE: Heavy pulling
Elite Veteran
Posts: 736 Location: Western WA
Originally written by fgc on 2009-05-18 8:58 AM
We have an 18'LQ, 4 horse, Bloomer 16,600 empty. I have a 08 Ford F350 6.4 that will pull ok. I am not as sure about the stopping power.
Unless you have the 4.30 rear end, you are overloaded with an empty trailer. With the 4.30 rear end, your truck is only rated to haul one or two horses in addition to the trailer, and not much if anything more:
Posted 2009-05-18 9:04 PM (#105113 - in reply to #105067) Subject: RE: Heavy pulling
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 522 Location: Tucumcari NM
Your truck is nowhere near big enough for that trailer. Dangerous as hell, especially on a down grade. I sure wouldn't want to share the road with you or be one of the horses in the back!
Posted 2009-05-18 9:25 PM (#105118 - in reply to #105113) Subject: RE: Heavy pulling
Expert
Posts: 1416 Location: sc
Originally written by Marla on 2009-05-18 9:04 PM
Your truck is nowhere near big enough for that trailer. Dangerous as hell, especially on a down grade. I sure wouldn't want to share the road with you or be one of the horses in the back!
Marla
And people say I'm harsh.
That is a bit melodramatic, apparently you are unaware that hotshotters register and use their 1 ton duallys to GCW of 30,000+ lbs (meaning 25,000 lbs of trailer) and run up and down the roads of this country 24/7/365? Seems like you've survived all right.
Dangerous as hell? Not even close. Though it is overweight as far as the manufacturers are concerned.
Posted 2009-05-18 11:29 PM (#105122 - in reply to #105118) Subject: RE: Heavy pulling
Expert
Posts: 3853 Location: Vermont
Originally written by chadsalt on 2009-05-18 10:25 PM
Originally written by Marla on 2009-05-18 9:04 PM
Your truck is nowhere near big enough for that trailer. Dangerous as hell, especially on a down grade. I sure wouldn't want to share the road with you or be one of the horses in the back!
Marla
And people say I'm harsh.
That is a bit melodramatic, apparently you are unaware that hotshotters register and use their 1 ton duallys to GCW of 30,000+ lbs (meaning 25,000 lbs of trailer) and run up and down the roads of this country 24/7/365? Seems like you've survived all right.
Dangerous as hell? Not even close. Though it is overweight as far as the manufacturers are concerned.
Chad you could have referred her over here to learn what kind of weights are being run by hot shotters...http://www.hotshothauling.com/
Posted 2009-05-19 8:25 AM (#105136 - in reply to #105067) Subject: RE: Heavy pulling
Guys I was just asking what you use to pull your heavy trailers. I know what the F350 is capable of. We were hoping that someone might have experience with the F450 or maybe the 4500. The smaller International or FL would be perfect if I didn't have to look at it every day as I rode my bike to work.
Posted 2009-05-19 1:36 PM (#105173 - in reply to #105067) Subject: RE: Heavy pulling
Veteran
Posts: 115
I have a C4500 Kodiak that is pretty much dedicated to hauling. It is small and handy enough to fit through most drive-throughs, and it will fit in a parking space at Wal-Mart (though I normally take two just cause I can). With the chip in "economy" mode it gets around 15-18 MPH highway when you drive it nicely. I have used it as a daily driver for a week or two at a time when my little isuzu was down for repairs. It's do-able, just not convenient. I normally use my LQ at least every other weekend so the truck pretty much stays hooked up all the time. Having the exhaust brake for coming down the mountains, and the extra braking power in general makes me swear to never go back to a dually - and my trailer's small compared to a lot of them!
Posted 2009-05-19 10:06 PM (#105195 - in reply to #105067) Subject: RE: Heavy pulling
Member
Posts: 26 Location: Kingsland, TX
My daily driver is my dedicated rig.....a 4 door FL70. I've had everything from a 3/4 ton to a semi and for me the Freightliner is my compromise....that's what works for me.
Posted 2009-05-19 10:26 PM (#105198 - in reply to #105067) Subject: RE: Heavy pulling
Veteran
Posts: 188 Location: Ingalls, Ks
We went from an F350 4WD to an F550 4WD and have been very pleased with the upgrade. Still use the 350 for daily work, the 550 is pretty much dedicated. The 550 still does some other stuff, but not real often. Both are fairly similarly equipped 7.3 liter engines. Banks chips, built trans. exhaust, etc. The biggest difference is the gear ratio 3.73 (F350) vs. 4.88 (F550). The best mileage with the 550 is about 11 empty vs. about 16 for the 350. Just too many RPM's to be cruising around daily in the 550. GCVW is about 30K when hooked to our bigger trailer. Have used both to pull it. 550 is much better for multiple reasons!!
Posted 2009-08-07 10:13 AM (#109119 - in reply to #105067) Subject: RE: Heavy pulling
We now have a couple of hauls under our belt with the 09 F450. The truck pulls fine and rides smoother than the 08 F350. It also has a much tighter turning radius. When I hook up the trailer we have about a 3 1/4" sag. I ordered the Super Springs, installed them and still had roughly the same drop. I have since returned them. On my F350 I had air bags, but always had to adjust them and I believe the truck rode rougher after they were installed. From what I have read here it seems the Timbrens have worked for some, but I don't understand how they would work when the Super Springs did not. Any other ideas? Can't get another truck...........
Posted 2009-08-07 3:55 PM (#109137 - in reply to #105067) Subject: RE: Heavy pulling
Veteran
Posts: 134
For what it is worth. I use a 07 3500 CC duramax dually to pull my 14' LQ 4 horse Featherlite. It pulls great and stops great. In a perfect world I would love to have a mini freightliner but my truck is also my everyday truck. I live where up and down is a fact of life and have never had a problem. The tow/haul mode on the Duramax is a great feature of this truck. I love the combination of the duramax/allison. For all you Dodge fans out there the new Dodges now have an exhaust brake. Hope this helps.
Posted 2009-08-07 8:46 PM (#109144 - in reply to #109119) Subject: RE: Heavy pulling
Regular
Posts: 54 Location: Ohio
Originally written by fgc on 2009-08-07 11:13 AM
We now have a couple of hauls under our belt with the 09 F450. The truck pulls fine and rides smoother than the 08 F350. It also has a much tighter turning radius. When I hook up the trailer we have about a 3 1/4" sag. I ordered the Super Springs, installed them and still had roughly the same drop. I have since returned them. On my F350 I had air bags, but always had to adjust them and I believe the truck rode rougher after they were installed. From what I have read here it seems the Timbrens have worked for some, but I don't understand how they would work when the Super Springs did not. Any other ideas? Can't get another truck...........
I have had the timbrens on two trucks now. I don't know how the super springs operate, but I know the timbrens have worked well for my application.
Posted 2009-08-07 10:35 PM (#109152 - in reply to #105067) Subject: RE: Heavy pulling
Member
Posts: 25 Location: Sedalia, Colorado
The comments on GCWR and GVWR are pertinent.
I pull a steel 4 horse at the max GVWR of the trailer (12,000) with a F350 Powerstroke (GCWR 20,000, GVWR 9900) legally, but this requires attention to load distribution - no axle overloaded.
Weigh each axle, if any individual axle rating, Gross Vehicle Weight Rating, or Gross Combined Weight Rating are over - adjust as required. Timbrens do increase spring capacity, I run them on the tow vehicle front axle (diesel engines are heavy) but do not exceed the axle rating.
In most cases a trailer running 25k is going to require a minimum of an F650, better with a true air brake equiped medium duty tractor. International and Volvo both produce single axle tractors in this range that will be more than adequate. The optional Allison transmission retarder is worth its weight in gold. Much more effective than a "Jake".
BTW- My F350 7.3 has more than enough HP and Torque to handle a much larger trailer, braking is the shortcoming here in the Rockies even with well adjusted trailer brakes. Should I decide to increase the weight of the trailer, I would need more truck.
Just the opinion of a 30 year CDL driver who has pulled overloads thru the Rockies with both the best and the most inadequate of motive power.
There is no fear comparable to that of standing with no effect on faded brakes, praying the escape ramp will come before you run over the school bus!
Edited by Sundancer's Sidekick 2009-08-07 11:17 PM
Heavy pulling
