Posted 2009-01-14 1:11 AM (#97463) Subject: Ford and Navistar end pickup truck diesel contract
Elite Veteran
Posts: 1160 Location: Denver Colorado
We knew it was coming, if you read between the lines, this means Ford will be moving on with their own diesel engine for Super Duty trucks and leaves open the question if Ford will follow Navistar with a super EGR cooler to meet 2010 diesel emission regulation or follow the crowd and use Selective Catalytic Reduction (SCR) system, (urea.) So by January 2010 Ford and GM may be building their own diesels for pickup trucks.
Press release: NAVISTAR AND FORD MOTOR COMPANY REACH NEW BUSINESS AGREEMENT. Companies to Continue To Collaborate on Medium Duty Trucks and Other Initiatives
DEARBORN, Mich. and WARRENVILLE, Ill. (January 13, 2009)—Ford Motor Company (NYSE: F) and Navistar International Corporation (NYSE: NAV) have reached an agreement to restructure their ongoing business relationship and settle all existing litigation between the companies.
As a result of the agreement, the companies will end their current diesel engine supply agreement effective Dec. 31, 2009. However, the companies will continue to collaborate on a range of initiatives, including their existing Blue Diamond Truck and Parts joint ventures. Navistar will acquire additional equity in the Blue Diamond joint ventures, which will continue to offer dealers and customers F-650 and F-750 medium duty trucks, as well as parts support for a variety of Ford products, including Ford's PowerStroke Diesel-equipped trucks. Ford and Navistar also will continue their diesel engine supply relationship in South America. As a result of the agreement, Ford will make a payment to Navistar.
Posted 2009-01-14 6:13 AM (#97469 - in reply to #97463) Subject: RE: Ford and Navistar end pickup truck diesel contract
Expert
Posts: 3802 Location: Rocky Mount N.C.
Ford has been using MWM/Navistar International engines in their Brazil built Super duty's for years now.... Shame we couldn't get one of those in the states. Our very own "Barfly" lives in South Africa and drives a MWM powered F250..
MWM supply's diesels for the Chevy S-10, Jeep Wrangler, Volvo, Volkswagon, etc.
These engines were built in Brazil & have been installed in GM & Ford trucks & vans in South America.
Some spec info cribbed from a web source (use info at your discretion):
MWM International Sprint: 4.2L I6
Peak Torque: 510 Nm (376 Lb Ft) @ 1,600 RPM Peak Horsepower: 180 Hp Weight: 259 Kg (570 Lbs) - ALL
Mechanical OR Electronic fuel injection 3 valves per cylinder - 2 intake, 1 exhaust OHC cross flow cylinder head
---------------------------------------------------------Some info on the new Ford Scorpion engine.....
Sources say Ford continues to make good progress testing its upcoming in-house-designed 6.7-liter V-8 diesel engine. The new engine will replace the Navistar-sourced 6.4-liter V-8 Power Stroke diesel engine in Ford’s heavy-duty pickups by 2011. Code-named Scorpion, the new motor is said to pack plenty of sting — plus a few other surprises.
The latest power targets are said to be more than 390 horsepower and 720 pounds-feet of torque. Today’s Power Stroke diesel is rated at 350 hp and 650 pounds-feet.
Scorpion fuel economy is expected to improve by 3 mpg or more compared to the current Power Stroke. Helping the Scorpion’s mileage will be a new six-speed automatic transmission, like the 2009 Ford F-150 will have.
How important is this motor? The move is expected to permanently end Ford’s longtime use of Navistar-built diesel engines in its heavy-duty pickups, due to an ongoing legal battle between the two companies over warranty and cost issues related to the old 6.0-liter V-8 Power Stroke (model years 2003-07). Ford has used Navistar diesels in its F-Series trucks since 1982.
It’s not yet known if the Scorpion will continue to use the Power Stroke name or if Ford will create a brand new label for the engine.
Posted 2009-01-14 11:48 AM (#97491 - in reply to #97463) Subject: RE: Ford and Navistar end pickup truck diesel contract
Expert
Posts: 2453 Location: Northern Utah
From what I've read, the Super EGR is cheaper to impliment and more resistant to tampering by the end user. The SCR runs at a higher temperature which helps the engine achieve higher efficiencies in the combustion which equals better mileage. The SCR systems requires the end user to add Urea periodically to the system. So it's another consumable that the end user has to remember to fill and pay for. The manufactures have to Show the EPA they have devised a way to monitor that the Urea is being used (that the tank has not been allowed to run empty) and that the system is not being disabled. ( at least not easily by after market chips or tuners). They are forecasting the Urea cost to add $.006 per mile (based up $2.00 per gallon for Urea)
Mr Trucks post says the Fords agreement ends Dec 2009. Which implies that Ford will be using the new engines in January 2010. The clip that rentento cut from Pickuptrucks.com says Ford will switch over in 2011. I venture to guesss, Ford will release and ship the 2011 model in January 2010 as a early model release like they did with the 2008 model release or they could offer it as a mid year engine change like they did in 2003 when they changed from the 7.3L to the 6.0L.
A 390 hp engine is almost getting to the point of who cares. My 2006 6.0L at 325 hp has plenty of power for most towing. What I'm most concerned aobut is turbo lag and low end grunt to start a load moving. Which I understand was addressed with the 2008 6.4L engines. And improving the fuel mileage which wasn't helped with the 2008 emissions. At the rate I'm racking up miles on my 2006, I'll be ready to purchase a new truck in the frame of when this new engine shows up. So it's something I'll be keeping on eye on.
Ford and Navistar end pickup truck diesel contract
