Posted 2008-03-13 8:35 AM (#79417) Subject: werm + mats???
Regular
Posts: 88 Location: beaumont texas
as time gets closer to order trailer, i have 99% decided to get the werm flooring put in. my question: would it be overkill to also get the mats to put on top of the werm floor? (or is that the way it is done anyway?)
i like the idea of having extra cushioning, and i like the idea of washing out the mats without having to life them up (and out) each time. (i'm getting too old to haul mats in and out!) i realize that with mats on top and NOT taking them out each time i wash will mean some of the urine, etc will be stuck under the mats, but the werm flooring should still protect the actual floor, right?
i was told by one dealer here in texas that they do not put the werm flooring in any of their trailers because the heat/humidity down south here can cause some problems. possibly, putting mats on top of a werm floor would help???
Posted 2008-03-13 8:54 AM (#79420 - in reply to #79417) Subject: RE: werm + mats???
Expert
Posts: 1205 Location: Arkansas
You know, that is a good question. I also wonder about that. One thing, you would need to have sufficient clearance under any stud partitions for the bit of extra thickness, but sounds like an idea to me..
Posted 2008-03-13 10:20 AM (#79448 - in reply to #79417) Subject: RE: werm + mats???
Expert
Posts: 3802 Location: Rocky Mount N.C.
Mats on top of WERM? Wouldn't that be like wearing a rain coat over top of a wetsuit? Sounds like alot of extra work when it comes time to clean out the trailer!!
Posted 2008-03-13 11:51 AM (#79472 - in reply to #79417) Subject: RE: werm + mats???
Regular
Posts: 88 Location: beaumont texas
i would think mats over werm would provide extra cushioning (so long as you had the head room to spare the extra inch or two.)
my thought for using both was the statement made by a dealer down in this area that says he won't put werm in any of his trailers because the heat and humidity are causing some problems with the werm material to 'come up'. (i think he was saying the material was coming away from the floor.) seems like having mats on top may help keep the werm from seperating. but i do like the idea of extra cushioning.
yeah, it may be like wearing a raincoat over a wetsuit...but maybe the raincoat is also lined in some nice cushy material?
Posted 2008-03-13 1:46 PM (#79489 - in reply to #79417) Subject: RE: werm + mats???
Expert
Posts: 1205 Location: Arkansas
I have hauled borium shod animals over 1000 mile trip on mats, and they do suffer from the borium, so maybe the mats might protect the WERM, don't know how tough the WERM is for something like that, but replacing a chewed up mat is cheaper and easier than repairing the WERM, maybe? Obviously I just have mats, but the WERM keeps the aluminum from harm, then does the WERM need protection from those borium clad animals? Kinda like wearing a belt with the suspenders, but that happens too!
Posted 2008-03-13 4:19 PM (#79507 - in reply to #79472) Subject: RE: werm + mats???
Expert
Posts: 5870 Location: western PA
Originally written by amysbean on 2008-03-13 12:51 PM
my thought for using both was the statement made by a dealer down in this area that says he won't put werm in any of his trailers because the heat and humidity are causing some problems with the werm material to 'come up'. (i think he was saying the material was coming away from the floor.) seems like having mats on top may help keep the werm from seperating.
If the WERM material is susceptible to debonding, the additional weight of mats won't cure the problem. They might hold the loose material in place, but the WERM's ability to protect and seal the metal flooring under these conditions, has been compromised.
With urine and moisture being able to get between the flooring and WERM, they will be drastically shortening the life of the flooring. This is particularly true, in light of the inability to remove all the loose WERM to wash the floor. At least with the mats, they are totally removable, allowing complete access to the flooring.
If the metal flooring is being saturated with urine, trapped under the WERM, you have to have some access and means to flush it clean. To any owner of a WERM coating, if it is loose, you may have a hidden corrosion problem that is presently unknown to you. This matter should be investigated and not ignored.
Posted 2008-03-13 8:55 PM (#79524 - in reply to #79417) Subject: RE: werm + mats???
Elite Veteran
Posts: 714 Location: Minnesota
I would think that putting mats on top of WERM would create another space for moisture to collect. Especially in the hot southern states, it would be a great place for mold and bacteria to grow. That's more of a reason for me to pull the mats out when I wash than anything.
Posted 2008-03-13 11:18 PM (#79533 - in reply to #79417) Subject: RE: werm + mats???
Regular
Posts: 57
My WERM is three years old, and all it takes is a quick spray-out for my floor to look like new again. If the WERM is properly installed, it should essentially be bonded to the aluminum floor of the trailer, so I don't see how moisture could affect it, as it is a rubber-type material and virtually impermeable. I clean and inspect my floors frequently, and my WERM is as set and sealed as the day it was new. It is very durable too, as I have a horse who occasionally paws really hard in the trailer (with shoes on), and there is no damage from his antics. I use my WERM straight up with no mats, and really like it.
Posted 2008-03-14 6:25 AM (#79543 - in reply to #79417) Subject: RE: werm + mats???
Member
Posts: 24
I WOULD AGREE WITH HAPPYRIDER. I HAVE WERM IN MY TRAILER AND I KNOW OTHER PEOPLE THAT HAVE IT WITH NO PROBLEMS. LIKE ANY PRODUCT THAT GETS INSTALLED, IF THERE IS A PROBLEM (LIKE THE DEBONDING OF WERM) IT IS MORE THAN LIKELY A INSTALL PROBLEM, NOT THE PRODUCT. THERE ARE MANY MANUFACTURES THAT OFFER THIS PRODUCT AS AN OPTION IN THIER TRAILERS FOR MANY YEARS. IF THEY WERE HAVING LOTS OF PROBLEMS THEY WOULD NOT CONTINUE TO USE IT. ALSO, YOU CAN PATCH WERM FLOORING, UNLIKE A MAT.
Posted 2008-03-14 11:30 AM (#79570 - in reply to #79417) Subject: RE: werm + mats???
Expert
Posts: 1205 Location: Arkansas
I do think that if the WERM is coming up it must not have bonded, nothing on top would have any effect there. My neighbor had a mat get a hole in it over time, and he put wax paper under it, and filled the hole with black silicone caulking and leveled it. Still holding about 10 years now. They were just trying to not spend extra money, as they are retirees, but what a clever little deal! Glad to know the WERM would hold up to a digging borium shod animal, the WERM is expensive and I would want to protect it!!
Posted 2008-03-14 2:09 PM (#79577 - in reply to #79417) Subject: RE: werm + mats???
Elite Veteran
Posts: 795 Location: Tenn/Ala.
This is a good thread. As a WERM dealer, please let me clarify a couple of points: A) If the WERM isn't bonding to the aluminum floor, then it wasn't installed properly. When properly installed according to a fairly lengthy procedure which includes lots of cleaning, prep, and priming with an ordnance wash primer, it is bonded to the surface better than hot summer bubble gum on the bottom of your boot! Remember, WERM has been around for many years now and the evolution of the product took care of early issues. So beware bad mouthing from a dealer not using it based on results from many years ago.
B) Sure, you could put additional mats over the WERM if you so choose. It would be just like using double floor mats. I personally wouldn't recommend it unless you feel you need the cushioning.
C) Borium shoes- WERM is like mats. If you have a pawing horse with Borium, he can paw through WERM just like any other rubber mat. It will likely take a while, but the truth is he can. And yes, it can be re-WERMd if it is ever necessary in that spot.
RTSmith
www.SelectTrailer.com
Posted 2008-03-14 2:56 PM (#79579 - in reply to #79417) Subject: RE: werm + mats???
Expert
Posts: 1205 Location: Arkansas
Thank you Mr Smith, for a very informative answer. Most animals I know are not hauled around standing on borium, this was a once a year hunting trip. Should I need get into that again, I will bear that in mind. Thank you, too, for an honest assessment of the product performance, such information aids in customer care and satisfaction. A+!!
Posted 2008-03-14 3:38 PM (#79580 - in reply to #79577) Subject: RE: werm + mats???
Expert
Posts: 5870 Location: western PA
Originally written by RTSmith on 2008-03-14 3:09 PM
A) If the WERM isn't bonding to the aluminum floor, then it wasn't installed properly. When properly installed according to a fairly lengthy procedure which includes lots of cleaning, prep, and priming with an ordnance wash primer, And yes, it can be re-WERMd if it is ever necessary in that spot. RTSmith www.SelectTrailer.com[/QUOTE]
RTSmith
Thank you for your insight and description of the WERM product. I have questions that pertain to the thread about loose material: If the WERM is loose and has debonded, how will repairs be effected? Additional material sprayed in place of the loose, will not cure an installation problem. How is the lengthy cleaning procedure effected in the small failed areas? Does all the WERM have to be removed if one area is found to be problematic? Are the repairs permanent?
Thank you again for a better understanding of the WERM coating.
Posted 2008-03-14 4:13 PM (#79583 - in reply to #79580) Subject: RE: werm + mats???
Elite Veteran
Posts: 795 Location: Tenn/Ala.
Gard- Actually, in the event of loose WERM material, the "repair" would be to remove it- however is required, ie. pull, cut, grind, scrape, trim, swear, holler, etc. and then grind or scrape down to fresh floor material (usually aluminum) and start all over again. In the event of a section repsir the WERM can be cut with a knife (remember, it is actually rubber) in a nice square so that one can remove a particular section to inlude the damaged (or whatever) shape, then clean and reinstall. WERM when being applied is actually several ingredients mixed in an industrial type mixer, which is then poured out and leveled with a trowel, very much like concrete. So there isn't any method to just "spray a little more" under another surface. Any repair should be just as permanent as a new installation.
RTSmith
Posted 2008-03-14 4:28 PM (#79585 - in reply to #79417) Subject: RE: werm + mats???
Location: Where the wind comes sweepin' down the plain...
I have a friend that had an area "patched" where a horse pawed through over time. After they had loaded horses a few times in it, you had trouble finding the spot. They had the trailer for a few years after that before they traded for a new trailer and never had any more problems with it. They had it put in their new trailer too.
Posted 2008-03-14 5:11 PM (#79588 - in reply to #79417) Subject: RE: werm + mats???
Expert
Posts: 5870 Location: western PA
Thank you for a better understanding of the WERM flooring and its installation. It sounds like a good product if installed correctly, and I can understand why it is held in such high esteem.
RTSmith sounds very knowledgeable and would probably be an excellent choice of whom to contact, should you want this product installed in your trailer.
Posted 2009-01-10 12:38 PM (#97252 - in reply to #79417) Subject: RE: werm + mats???
New User
Posts: 1
I know this is thread is a little dated. Was hoping RTSmith could answer a question about WERM. Can it be added to an older trailer with wood floors? If there are cracks between some of the boards would they need to be caulked? Would it be better to replace the wood with metal before adding WERM?
Posted 2009-01-10 3:41 PM (#97258 - in reply to #79417) Subject: RE: werm + mats???
Veteran
Posts: 241
I'm glad to see this thread brought up again, lots of good information. I emailed the the WERM folks in Oklahoma city on Thursday and talked to them about picking up my new Hart trailer from the factory and installing the WERM floor before the trailer is shipped out to me in Montana. They were very accommodating and easy to work with.
Posted 2009-01-10 8:48 PM (#97272 - in reply to #79417) Subject: RE: werm + mats???
Member
Posts: 24
If you have a wood plank floor in your trailer, you just need to put 1/4" plywood on top so that you have a sold surface to apply the WERM floor to. You can staple or screw it down. I would also suggest to glue it down with a good construction adhesive.
Posted 2009-01-13 10:30 AM (#97420 - in reply to #79417) Subject: RE: werm + mats???
Elite Veteran
Posts: 681 Location: Corpus Christi, Texas
I met a lady on a trail ride that had werm plus mats in her 4-star.. she said that her horse started pawing in the trailer with just the werm flooring alone, but he stopped after adding the mats... She also stated that a couple of friend's horse were doing the same thing (in their own trailers with werm)..The werm is not soft and somewhat cushy like I expected (like a thicker rhino liner.). it is hard and, altho textured, it is somewhat slick...
Posted 2009-01-13 11:15 AM (#97424 - in reply to #97272) Subject: RE: werm + mats???
Expert
Posts: 3802 Location: Rocky Mount N.C.
Originally written by TERP on 2009-01-10 9:48 PM
If you have a wood plank floor in your trailer, you just need to put 1/4" plywood on top so that you have a sold surface to apply the WERM floor to. You can staple or screw it down. I would also suggest to glue it down with a good construction adhesive.
TERP... Have you see this done with a wood floor? Got any out there that's 3-4 years old? Just seems to me that the wood could never get completly dry after a good long run in the rain, or if there was a leak through the "werm"..... Something like where the horses have pawed and then "pee'd"... How is that going to work with the wood flexing underneath the "werm"? Looks like it would pull loose and seperate... Just wondering.
With mats, you drag them out so the wood can dry..... Won't be dragging that "werm" out.... Hopefully!!
Posted 2009-01-14 7:27 AM (#97470 - in reply to #79417) Subject: RE: werm + mats???
Member
Posts: 24
Retento - I had WERM installed in my trailer almost 4 years ago over wood and is holding up just fine. As far as a leaking through the WERM, it is a non pourus product so that will not happen. WERM is a flexible material that flexes with your trailer, so the chances of seperation from the wood floor are not real good.
werm + mats???
