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Riding in large groups.

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Gone
Reg. May 2005
Posted 2008-08-11 5:39 AM (#89457)
Subject: Riding in large groups.


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Hubby and I bought a new QH. He's a six year old gelding. He has a good demeanor at home and on trail. The problem he has is seperation anxiety when ridden with larger groups of horses. He wants to come out of his skin. This is his only "flaw." Do any of you have any suggestions on how to break him of this other than riding him in larger groups more often and hoping he'll eventually stop? My thought was to put more trail miles on him in smaller groups (2-6 horses.) Maybe over time a larger group won't be so bad. Oh, he was raised in a pastured, larger herd of horses. Any input would be appreciated.......

Edited by Gone 2008-08-11 5:42 AM
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hounddog
Reg. Dec 2005
Posted 2008-08-11 6:49 AM (#89458 - in reply to #89457)
Subject: RE: Riding in large groups.


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I think thats a real common issue.Wagon train is even worse.Lots of trail miles and your on the right track with increasing the size of the group.Be careful! I've had a few in years past that it took a couple years for them to settle completly.Lots of one rein stops,half halts,180 turns and going the oppisite direction etc.Trying to keeep their mind busy and submitting/paying attention to the rider.Do side passes,180 turns and a few steps in the other direction increasing the distance traveled,mix it up.But its like a constant schooling ride.Some do better the others.Cival War Generals actually had horses they woukd NOT ride into battle for similiar reasons.

Edited by hounddog 2008-08-11 6:50 AM
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bbsmfg3
Reg. Dec 2006
Posted 2008-08-11 9:55 AM (#89468 - in reply to #89457)
Subject: RE: Riding in large groups.


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The horse needs to be trained to only do what you want when you want and nothing else, then, he'll behave for you all of the time regardless of the groups your riding with. Which means, until he is trained well, you have to tell the horse what to do 100% of the time.
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Terri
Reg. Jan 2004
Posted 2008-08-11 12:51 PM (#89483 - in reply to #89457)
Subject: RE: Riding in large groups.



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My husbands mare does this.  The first trail ride we went on I thought she was going to fall over from anxiety.  I've started taking her to the gymkhanas when the kids go so she can get used to her "herd" leaving her and having strange horses moving around.  She is starting to settle down when left alone.  Since I am watching the kids I haven't taken her out under saddle while we are there, yet.  Next time my husband is able to go with us I will saddle her up and work her in the practice arena while all the kids are at the main arena and see how she does.
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ilhorsechick33
Reg. Mar 2008
Posted 2008-08-11 1:10 PM (#89486 - in reply to #89457)
Subject: RE: Riding in large groups.



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have you tried either riding in the very front or very back of the group? my mare used to do this when she was young (2 and 3) but since she has gotten older she will ride where ever.  your horse may just need to be seasoned... lots of miles.  have you tried separating your horse from all others and maybe even leaving it tied at camp?I have a 2-year-old now that I am sure I will be dealing with this with him.  he is very attached to my mare and throws a fit when I leave him at the trailer and ride off from him.  Good luck!

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tom-tom
Reg. Feb 2008
Posted 2008-08-11 2:58 PM (#89495 - in reply to #89457)
Subject: RE: Riding in large groups.


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First thing to do is stay calm when in larger groups; if your horse feels your tension then he will get tenser and "a bad wreck" may follow.  It's hard but sit deep and try and stay calm.  I agree with more miles and more exposure to different size groups are needed.  Don't push that 100+ person group ride right now.  Take your time.  Good Luck!
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classygirl98
Reg. Jan 2005
Posted 2008-08-11 8:48 PM (#89526 - in reply to #89457)
Subject: RE: Riding in large groups.


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Our horses are well seasoned trail horses used to being rode in fairly large groups. Every now and then they will get fired up in a group especially if we are really moving out more so at the beginning of the ride. I think riding in small groups at first will help. Just gradually work him up to bigger and better if he does well with that. Keep us posted to his progress.
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rockyrider
Reg. Jun 2004
Posted 2008-08-12 6:39 AM (#89538 - in reply to #89457)
Subject: RE: Riding in large groups.


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Can you completely separate them at home? Separate to the point where they can't see each other? If so that will be good practice also, and somewhat safe(for you anyway) I have seen them injury themselves before on a fence or barn or anything they might run into.

I also firmly believe in proper round pen work. It builds the horses confidence in you and himself. Lack of confidence is cause for the anxiety.

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Painted Horse
Reg. May 2005
Posted 2008-08-12 7:06 AM (#89539 - in reply to #89457)
Subject: RE: Riding in large groups.



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When I used to do endurance and CTR my new horses would go crazy.  You trailer 6 hours, park in a camping area with 100 other horses, tie to the trailer for the night. Pour the calories on for the long ride ahead. Saturday morning those horse were powder kegs ready to explode. And it wasn't just mine. It amazed me to watch 60-80 horses leave a parking lot at the begining of the days ride. Lots of folks spinning around and usually somebody on the ground.

I agree with the posts above, you need to have control of the horse. Practice controls by your self at home. Get the horse so it will respond 100% of the time to your request. Whether they be sidepass, a head down queue, 360 turn, Laterial or verticle flexes, or what ever you want to work on.  When you get into the group and the horses get excited, start schooling the horse. Ask for the commands that you have taught at home. Keep his mind on you and what you are asking him to do.  Every time you sense he is getting distracted by the group, ask for something.

You may have to work at it for a mile or two, but the horses usually settle down and go to work. It always amazed me to watch the April rides, how excited all the horses were, by June, it was just off to work for the horses, and only those who had just started for the season or who didn't work at home with their horses were still fighting them. The horses seemed to learn they were in for 8 hours of hard riding and learned to save their energy, not waste it prancing around and fighting with their riders.

I had several horses that just could not stand to not be the leader. If they could see a horse butt up head of them, they thought they had to catch and pass it. They would loose their smooth jog or gaits and jigg and bounce all over trying to get going so they could catch the horse ahead. If I let loose of the reins at all they kicked it up and gear and started moving. After a bunch of conditions rides and a few competitions, They would get so legged up and in shape that it was miles before they would calm down.

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barstow
Reg. Feb 2007
Posted 2008-08-12 7:54 AM (#89543 - in reply to #89457)
Subject: RE: Riding in large groups.


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I had a similar problem with a new 18 y.o. QH gelding. It wasn't on the trail so much as at the barn. This horse was/is trained to the hilt for western pleasure and HUS - and I am guessing now, he also had extensive trail miles because his favorite thing is trails.

We knew this horse for two years before we bought him and knew that in every situation he was calm and relaxed with his previous owner.

When we got him home, however, he went totally nuts. He became an unmanageable, anxious horse. We were all floored by this behavior. No one could believe this was the same horse that a few months earlier was packing beginner riders around. He would scream and whirl and pace and just lose his mind when it was time to move horses around the stable - i.e. from the barn to the turnout and vis versa. He would plow over you when being led, he would rear and it was a total turn around to the quiet docile horse we knew.

Long story short, we have found that it simply took several months for this guy to settle and to look at us (his human handlers) as part of his new herd, and to trust us as good decision-makers as far as his survival was concerned. At first, he only saw other horses as safety and protection - not us new humans. When he finally realized that we could be trusted, then we also gained his respect, and he became the quiet, gentle gelding that he had been. But this process took nearly five months. He had been a show horse all his life, and now we upset the apple cart by putting him in a totally new setting (family farm, pleasure riding). This new routine upset him until he got used to it. And as someone mentioned about, could take much longer.

Give him time, give him a routine, and give him a reason to trust that you are a good leader.

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Gone
Reg. May 2005
Posted 2008-08-12 8:03 AM (#89545 - in reply to #89457)
Subject: RE: Riding in large groups.


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He's great riding off from the property, a couple of whinnies to the other horses and that's about it. He's great on trail. He goes through anything and if he is "curious" about an object on trail, he'll just cock his head to the side and maybe snort all the while he's still walking forward. He hitches and loads well. He has alot of good qualities. The one thing I did like about him on that larger ride we had trouble with was he never wanted to kick or bite at any of the other horses around him. He did drop his haunches one time but never reared. He didn't respond to aids as well as he does in the arena which is somewhat understanding due to his anxiety at the time and having a new rider. Hubby kept him turning in circles everytime he acted up and for a few moments he calmed down but.....I bought the same bit his former trainer used. It's a rolled straight wire mouth piece with very little shank. I can't remember the name of it. Maybe he needs a different bit. I have some smaller campouts/rides pretty much up until late fall we will be taking him on. We'll get through this hurdle. A fellow riding friend suggested that a shore to shore ride would do him good. I said yes but personally we don't have time right now and again when you're on that ride you're not riding with 75 other horses all at once.

Edited by Gone 2008-08-12 8:08 AM
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barstow
Reg. Feb 2007
Posted 2008-08-12 8:22 AM (#89546 - in reply to #89457)
Subject: RE: Riding in large groups.


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Location: Maine
I am thinking maybe at some point in his life he had a bad experience in a large herd. Do you know anything about his "childhood?" Perhaps he was turned out with a group of mares and babies and got trampled or hurt?

I bring this possibility up because a friend of mine has a horse that trailers like a dream - as long as she's by herself. If you put her in a trailer with another horse, she goes ballistic and will do all she can to get out of the trailer to the point of injuring herself.

We found out that she'd been brought to the East Coast in a stock trailer with several other horses and was trampled in the trailer on the way. This experience has traumatized her, of course.

So perhaps there's a traumatic memory in your horse's mind that is triggered by being in a large group? Just a thought.

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genebob
Reg. Nov 2007
Posted 2008-08-12 9:19 AM (#89550 - in reply to #89457)
Subject: RE: Riding in large groups.


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We've had very similar actions. My wife's horse and mine are the only ones we keep together in the pasture at home. The others are at another pasture down the road. Mine is now three and actually acted better as a two year old when we separated, so I took her back down to the trainer for a one day tune up with me on her and not him. He advised me that when she acts up like that to immediatly (if possible) lope her in as large of circles as possible, occasionally changing directions and cues. They will find that it is much easier to behave than to work hard. Last week I had her doing security at the fair and used this method. I was able to ride her right through the rides on the midway without a problem.
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muleskinner
Reg. Dec 2005
Posted 2008-08-12 3:22 PM (#89575 - in reply to #89539)
Subject: RE: Riding in large groups.


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Location: Danielsville,Ga.
Originally written by Painted Horse on 2008-08-12 7:06 AM

When I used to do endurance and CTR my new horses would go crazy. You trailer 6 hours, park in a camping area with 100 other horses, tie to the trailer for the night. Pour the calories on for the long ride ahead.Saturday morning those horse were powder kegs ready to explode. And it wasn't just mine. Itamazed me to watch 60-80 horses leave a parking lot at the begining of the days ride. Lots of folks spinning around and usually somebody on the ground.

I agree with the posts above, you need to have control of the horse. Practice controls by your self at home. Get the horse so it will respond 100% of the time to your request. Whether they be sidepass, a head down queue, 360 turn, Laterial or verticle flexes, or what ever you want to work on. When you get into the group and the horses get excited, start schooling the horse. Ask for the commands that you have taught at home. Keep his mind on you and what you are asking him to do. Every time you sense he is getting distracted by the group, ask for something.

You may have to work at it for a mile or two, but the horses usually settle down and go to work. It always amazed me to watch the April rides, how excited all the horses were, by June, it was just off to work for the horses, and only those who had just started for the season or who didn't work at home with their horses were still fighting them. The horses seemed to learn they were in for 8 hours of hard riding and learned to save their energy, not waste it prancing around and fighting with their riders.

I had several horses that just could not stand to not be the leader. If they could see a horse butt up head of them, they thought they had to catch and pass it. They would loose their smooth jog or gaits and jigg and bounce all over trying to get going so they could catch the horse ahead. If I let loose of the reins at all they kicked it up and gear and started moving. After a bunch of conditions rides and a few competitions, They would get so legged up and in shape that it was miles before they would calm down.

Your post brought back memories of my first endurance competition,many moons ago. I had a big raw-boned arab gelding(polish) witez 11 breed top and bottom. My plan was to ride behind the other riders and kinda learn as I went.Well they sent us off at daylight,65 riders,well he thought it was the kentucky derby,he jumped to the side and thundered past all 64 horses at a full hard gallop and they all took off after him,I wasn't very popular that night. haha,but we covered the first 5 miles in 15 minutes and I got chewed pretty bad by the vet at the surprise check point,however my horse was fine and at the end of the day we had a 5th place finish, ole Abe is 29 now and we are both retired,but he still likes to hit a lick now and then,he bolted with my 9 yr. old grandaughter a year or so ago.and ran about an 8th of a mile before he gave up.Endurance IMO is the most enjoyable of all competition.
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Painted Horse
Reg. May 2005
Posted 2008-08-12 10:42 PM (#89613 - in reply to #89457)
Subject: RE: Riding in large groups.



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I can relate, The 2nd endurance race I entered had 90 horses. I stood in camp and watched them leave before I even mounted. After the dust settled I headed down the trail. I'm an outdoorsman and can read a map. I was following the map I had been giving.  when along comes 6 riders. I figure they were late in the pack, like me, so I tag in behind them and held their pace, my horse wasn't about to get left behind.  Turns out they were the leaders, The entire group had made a wrong turn in their rush out of camp. By leaving late, I wasn't caught up in the herd and had taken the time to read my map and was on the correct course.  Well at the 30 mile mark we came in #7 and had a vet check and my horse failed it. took him too long to recovery and we got held.  We finished the ride, with me doing a lot of walking/joggin instead riding, I think we came in around 45th.  I learned that day that I needed to learn how to rate my horses speed and don't worry about what ANY body else is doing.
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gabz
Reg. Oct 2003
Posted 2008-08-14 1:59 PM (#89712 - in reply to #89457)
Subject: RE: Riding in large groups.



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My horse gets anxious in unfamiliar groups when he's in the middle with horses all around and starting out. Putting him at the back so that he doesn't have to watch his haunches from strange horse attacks works perfect. It only takes him a few minutes to sort things out, but he needs to have an out (either side or front or back) in the beginning.

He can be anywhere in the string after the first few minutes and he's a babysitter horse in that young horses or any horse for that matter can plow into his butt - but he seems to need a few minutes to check things out.

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Tuffyspop
Reg. Jul 2008
Posted 2008-08-21 2:06 PM (#90128 - in reply to #89457)
Subject: RE: Riding in large groups.


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Wet saddle blankets will fix the problem.  Starting with smaller groups of 5 - 7 horses will help.  Camping out in larger groups is also good. 

Tuffy is my 7 year old QH Gelding, and when he was just starting out (coming 3), he had a terrible aversion to mules...he didn't like the smell, sight, or sound of them at all. 

We had an impromptu ride started out with about 8 of us...mostly QH's but one older guy with two mules...one being ridden and the other trainee being ponied.

The only time Tuffy ever offered to try and get out from under me...he crow-hopped and bunched up a bit when I tried to stick him in behind the mules on this trail ride. 

I asked the muleskinner if he'd allow me to desensitize him for future rides...he had his mules stand for a closer inspection, then we rode around them several times, in front and in back of, until Tuffy was "bored" with the whole thing. 

After that, no problems. 

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tom-tom
Reg. Feb 2008
Posted 2008-08-21 3:07 PM (#90132 - in reply to #89457)
Subject: RE: Riding in large groups.


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I have seen many horsesget scared at the sight of the mule.  Even better, let one let out a holler while on a ride or while camping.  The other horses will seem to come unglued.  I don't have this problem, thanks to our little donkey that we keep on the farm.  He hollers every morning and evening to be fed; and the later you are feeding the more vocal he gets.  My horse now just ignore him and any mules that we see on the trail.
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Terri
Reg. Jan 2004
Posted 2008-08-21 9:45 PM (#90153 - in reply to #89457)
Subject: RE: Riding in large groups.



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My husbands mare used to be terrified of mules.  She would completely loose her mind if she saw one.  My hubands job sent him on a temp assignment and I went with him and the boarding stable just happened to have a couple pens of mules.  I asked if I could put my mare in the pen/stall next to them and explained why so they rearranged a couple of horses and gave me the pen next to them.  I couldn't get her to go into the pen.  Fortunately the pen was large enough to back my truck/trailer into so I tied the trailer door open and just parked in the pen.  She finally came out of the trailer when she got hungry but that was an interesting first week. The first night she would take a drink of water and a couple of bites of food and then hide in the trailer.  I
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hounddog
Reg. Dec 2005
Posted 2008-08-21 9:57 PM (#90156 - in reply to #89457)
Subject: RE: Riding in large groups.


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Try riding in front or boxed in by teams of drafters pulling noisy wagons.
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