Glad to be here...Guys ya'll will NOT believe this but there is an inline Cat approx 7.8 litre that passes 2010 emissions without urea.  375 gross hp/720 gross ft,lbs...They were built for Ford exclusively to replace the 7.3.  I drove some unbranded test mules with this engine.  Ford paid a huge penalty to pass on this motor in mid 03, because the "average joe" thinks GM owns CAT.  Ford's sole reason for passing was the "perception" that they had to buy power from GM.  CAT diesel has long been associated with GM ownership.  Cost of "backout" was close to 120 million.

The reason Ford's 6.4 will not pass is because it is a Ford.  I told ya'll a page and a half ago that Ford buys the block crank and rods form Navistar.  Navistar wants out of the deal with Ford so bad they can't see straight.  Now, lets do some quick math.  Navistar builds power, Ford does not.  Ford needs to buy what International sells, and International wants to dump them.  How does that sound?  When a federal court judge has to ORDER you to sell something, you know there is trouble.  Mark Smith (head engineer), Donny Miller (purchsaing/procurement), Keith Snow (service parts marketing), Frank Raney (sales/marketing), John Wadden (vp) are all very close friends of mine who look good when 2L does good.  All are at least level 16 management with Navistar.  2L was instrumental in the XT line (CXT, RXT,MXT) and we do prototype work for Navistar on show trucks...  Ford is trying to pick up all of the gross they can, and that is why they are trying to do it themselves.  As I said in previous post, International warranted the 7.3 for Ford for 100k miles and do not warrant the 6.0 or 6.4 for one foot.  They sold Ford the 7.3 as a complete crated engine, water pump, turbo, and ALL.  Ford does not want to buy that way because the can outsource out of the US and make more money.  Has it ever dawned on ya'll that Ford has never done a recall on the 6.0?  Cheaper to try to hide it....

In my opinion, the reason we all see alot of Dodges are they happen to be around 10k cheaper than everybody else, pound for pound, option for option....Dodge credit has been looser the last 5 years and the Cummins motor holds up. Truck is built in Escabado, Mexico in the same plant as the M2.  Look at the line set sheet located behind the glove box.  (It is in Spanish)  Anybody who works or travels I35 in Texas sees them all the time coming out of Laredo....Class dismissed.

WaylandLong

www.2Lcustomtrucks.com                                                                                                                      

Retire? You obviously haven't seen my wife's closet

Tresvolt,  I never said the engine would not do the job!!!  The problem I had witht the 3500 or 1-ton is the ass end is too light to handle my load.  That is why I stated "LOADED"!  When unloaded or with small bumper pull trailer is was great, but with a 40' loaded Trails West 4 horse trailer (around 17-k or so loaded) was hook in the bed, it put the springs FLAT to start with, then installed firestone bags that help raise the rear, then it was like hauling a HUGE BARN DOOR!  Not just one GM, I have tried with 2 or 3 diff. 1-ton just to see if I have a sorry one.  Same story diff. truck! 

You are correct about the body trouble with "some" Dodge truck, but I have had a 03' with 50-k, 05 with 35-k (was a turd, major injector mess), and my new 07 and also loved all three, even the turd truck!  Most of the body issues was from people being HARD on there truck and NOT keeping the maintance up!  I am in the car buisness and buy older diesel truck everyday and have had some Dodge's with 3 and 400-k that would pass for a 50-k mile truck.  But also have some with right at 100-k miles that looked like 500-k!  So it is all in how someone takes care of it!  Same thing with Ford and GM! 

Ford accounted for 68% of Navistars U.S. sales, not sales.  They produce engines AND trucks in Western Europe, Eastern Europe, Australia, South Africa, etc.. Navistar has private labeled trucks and buses you and I have never heard of.  Did you not hear of how Navistar and CAT have been attempting to consolidate over the last year?  Why would you want to sell something to someone who is paying you slower and slower.  Does it not seem odd to you that Navistar just unveiled the big engines?  The DT570 that we have used in our medium duty for the last several years only missed clearing the 07/08 emmissions standards by 8%.  The 2009 Internationals (Maxxforce9) that I am building at my shop right now are barely different than the DT570, other than regeneration.  International is moving 92% of the buses in the WORLD right now.  They will survive without Ford.  The feds were not sure Ford would survive without them, case in point, they ordered them to sell to them. 

I did not read your link but it is probably some automotive site or something.  International is sueing Ford over the new 4.4 motor that Ford is attempting to put in a half-ton.  You don't reckon International might have their finger in the new GM suv/half-ton motor?  Wink, wink...It is all a chess match with these guys.

When International does not HAVE to "buy" the big bore power any longer from CAT or Cummins, do you reckon that will offset the loss of Ford?  International builds alot of trucks, globally.

As far as recall, I have not checked on internal engine recall, I wasn't really counting things like wiring harness'.  I'm talking about motors grenading at an idle, with 0 miles on them, coming off of the transport, and blowing up while being pulled into my shop.  Dang near cut 3 employees legs off.  I'm talking about trucks running down the road on a test drive and fire start coming out from under the dash, due to such a high pressure fuel system failing.  I'm talking about ford dealers who know how hard my wife and I haul to cuttings every weekend, and how hard we push product at those horse shows telling us NOT to sell these trucks to our friends.  I'm talking about trucks who "suck valves" at an idle and start running off of their own engine oil supply, and the piece of s#*t running off with itself at 4000 rpm .  There is nothing quite like rods coming thru the side of a block, inside your shop full of hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of product.

Wayland Long

www.2Lcustomtrucks.com      

RTK - My mistake. That is how I took what you wrote. I load mine heavy. Always. The 02 GM would flatten more than the 05 or 07. The 07 doesn't hardly move.

I won't disagree with you on the Dodges. Some of them hold up great. Most of them may hold up great. But same standard of care on mine...and the GMs have held up better. That is all I am saying. I didn't buy a truck with the intentions of having a rattle trap at 50K. If I didn't care about that...I would buy the Dodges.

I haven't had a 3rd gen Dodge. And I won't as long as my GMs keep performing as they should. It would have been the same with the Dodge. Dang thing was so noisy you almost had to put in ear plugs just to drive it. I wasn't going to take a chance on another one. UGLY? That is kind of funny. I guess what they say is true...beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

I got an 2001 Chevrolet 3500 dually. The most weight I've ever had in the bed was 4000# of fertilizer and the truck squatted to the point of being about level. It should be able to carry about 5000# with no problems. If your trailer was weighing 17000#, then how much of that was on the pin/ball? 5, 6, 7000#? A friend of mine has a F-350 dually, the first thing he did after hooking to his LQ trailer was add a pair of Firestone ride-rites. The trailer just mashed his truck. Backed my 2001 Chevrolet under it and the truck sat level. His GVW is 13000#, mine is 11400#. I guess his truck weighs 8000#, mine about 6400#. It just seemed like the F-350's rear springs were alot softer. Haven't had any dealings with the newer Dodges. I know my 1998 was on the "soft side".

 Now for the "UGLY". My 2001 Chevrolet ain't nothing to look at, the 2002's were pretty much the same truck. In 2003 they cross bred the GM-HD trucks with the Avalanche and got this cat eyed looking front end that I never did like until....... they came out with the 2008's!!! That front end looks like somethings A$$!! GM must have hired someone from Nissan to design that critter. The 2008's look bad enough for me, to now to take a liking to the 2003-2007.5 trucks. I must admit the GMC looks 1000% better that the Chevrolet, but that ain't saying much.

 NOW! The chassis and springs on all of the Chevrolet and GMC's are and have been the same since the 2001's came out. Even the new 2008's on the lot are on the same chassis as the 2001. SO! If you feel like the 03 will carry more than the 05 and the 07 rides better that the 04..... Then, it's all in your head and or your butt cause they're all the same chassis....No matter how ugly they are!!

 So far as the F450's I asked about when I started this thread.... Well, as heat cycles go, I'm no longer in heat for a new truck. I "crunched" the numbers and it didn't look good. Unless I held up a bank or a Wells Fargo truck, then that F450 won't going to happen. It did seem like a pretty good deal specially compaired to a new one. But my old 2001, 3500 8.1 BIG BLOCK gas, Allison equiped dually did just fine down to Jacksonville, Fl. and back. We'll have to see who become's president..... that may have alot to do with whether we get a new truck....Or food on the table!! A country of 300,000,000 people and this is all we got to pick from..... That's sad

Towfoo- my understanding is Navistar sued Ford to get them to pay for the 6.0 L engine- there was a disagreement between Ford and Navistar- Ford wanted Navistar to continue shipping engines- however as 2L said, Ford was not paying or slow paying or only partially paying Navistar.  As far as the smaller engine, Navistar developed and started building a smaller (V-4) diesel based in part on an agreement from Ford- Ford had plans to use that in the Explorer and F-150. Ford backed out on the agreement after the engines were in production.

Dang it!!! How am I supposed defend my trucks when I am laughing so hard???

I didn't say they were beautiful, I just don't think that they are ugly. I am with you on the cat eyed front, but then 08's? Come on now. My last one is a GMC. The other two were Chevrolets.

My old 02, which a buddy now owns, was squashed with 4800#'s of fertilizer. The 03 & 07 sit level with the same fertilizer.

I am with you on waiting to see who our next president is.

Not sure about how much weight is actually on the ball.  But the reason I went with the Dodge cab-n-chassie is the gvrw is 12,500lbs. instead of 10-k or 11-k, then the better 6 speed auto trans. and the factory exhaust brake is worth is weight in gold!  When I bought my truck the company that installed the bed forgot to hook up the brake control and the 1st time to hook up to my heavy trailer and hit the brakes (oh' hell no trailer brakes) but the exhaust brake did the job!  Yes, I agree I really need the M2 or International, but funds aren't there right now so I had to go with what I thought would work out best for me now!  Later I will be going to the heavy truck, because the mileage is going to stay about the same, but the cost of running the heavy truck will actually be cheaper in the long run.

2L can confirm that!

  LOL!! I was wondering when that was coming!! The IH dealer here at home keeps a full yard all the time.... Mostly with JB Hunt, Freightliners having Cummins warranty work done!!

  I worked at this same dealership when I got out of high school, from 1976-1982. Night shift truck shop foreman. Quit pulling wrenches there to go to work for the City of Rocky mount Fire Dept..... Wrenching on fire trucks. I'm still partial to IH trucks and farm equipment. I was raised on them here on the farm.