Posted 2007-09-14 9:16 PM (#67895 - in reply to #67871) Subject: RE: Trouble hauling through Iowa
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Posts: 2615
Originally written by rose on 2007-09-14 2:12 PM
I don't believe any of the people driving those big rv bus creatures has anything more than a regular (in TN that would be a class D) driving license.
AND when I tagged the dually, nobody said anything about it needing any kind of "special" tag because it is big.
What is next, every one ton truck has to be driven by someone holding a cdl? This is a load of crap.
THAT'S for sure!!!
This may offend police officers,but I don't mean to.I have utmost respect for police officers and always have.I just don't see why they (meaning not necessarily them,but their superiors,those lawmakers who come up with these stupid laws and insist they be applied in SOME WAY to every one,ect)can't focus on some real live criminals such as drug trafficers,instead of people trying to do right and enjoy themselves.You know???
Posted 2007-09-15 8:11 AM (#67914 - in reply to #66684) Subject: RE: Trouble hauling through Iowa
Elite Veteran
Posts: 720
GVWRs are bumped up high, because it is also entirely possible to be ticketed for being overweight... This low GVWR some speak of getting re-tagged for can get you in trouble on the other end.
Posted 2007-09-15 12:00 PM (#67927 - in reply to #66684) Subject: RE: Trouble hauling through Iowa
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Posts: 13
Location: texas
Maybe I'm missing something, but it doesn't make any sense to me why a trailer would have a GVWR greater than the sum of the axle ratings (other than to make it seem like you're getting more trailer than you have). The reason I think this way is because any weight on the gooseneck of the trailer gets applied to the truck, not the trailer. When a rig is scaled, the truck axles must fall within the GVWR of the truck (this weight includes the empty truck, all of its contents, and the weight of the trailer gooseneck). The trailer weight that is measured when scaled is the combined trailer axle weight. If the GVWR of the trailer is greater than the sum of the axle ratings, then you have GVWR that you can't use, but end up paying for in increased registration fees and potentially pushing you over 26000 lbs. Basically the extra weight is being double bookkept.
Posted 2007-09-15 1:33 PM (#67932 - in reply to #66684) Subject: RE: Trouble hauling through Iowa
Location: KY
EXCEPT these are recreational vehicles privately owned for the owners' personal enjoyment. Just like the huge rv buses pulling tag along horse trailers, boats, cars, trailers with 4 wheelers or motocycles or whatever.
If Iowa thinks horses are worth so many $$$$, maybe they need to go to the claiming races at their own racetracks. Or maybe that is the problem, Iowa thinks all horses are racehorses.............
Posted 2007-09-15 4:42 PM (#67941 - in reply to #67932) Subject: RE: Trouble hauling through Iowa
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Posts: 1719
Location: PA
Maybe some of these states that are penalizing horse owners will wake up when we stop driving thru and STOPPING FOR FUEL!! Maybe the fuel stations should put some pressure on the DOTs.
Posted 2007-09-15 7:20 PM (#67949 - in reply to #66684) Subject: RE: Trouble hauling through Iowa
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Posts: 93
Location: Cherokee, Ia
Hey! Just because some highway dick gave out some stupid tickets, don't hold it against all of us Iowans!! I'm not sure what went on, that the person(s) got tickets, but I have hauled through this state for the past 20 years, never had a problem. No we DON'T think that all horses are racehorses, c'mon, we need to get ahold of the politicians or whoever writes up these crazy laws, regs. etc. Don't blame the people of Iowa, just because the cops have to "meet their quota" I hope the person who got pulled over fights this ticket, somehow, I know it would be a pain to have to show up in court, but guess I would probably do it to prove my point!
Posted 2007-09-15 7:55 PM (#67953 - in reply to #67927) Subject: RE: Trouble hauling through Iowa
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Posts: 3853
Location: Vermont
Originally written by aegnc on 2007-09-15 1:00 PM
Maybe I'm missing something, but it doesn't make any sense to me why a trailer would have a GVWR greater than the sum of the axle ratings (other than to make it seem like you're getting more trailer than you have). The reason I think this way is because any weight on the gooseneck of the trailer gets applied to the truck, not the trailer. When a rig is scaled, the truck axles must fall within the GVWR of the truck (this weight includes the empty truck, all of its contents, and the weight of the trailer gooseneck). The trailer weight that is measured when scaled is the combined trailer axle weight. If the GVWR of the trailer is greater than the sum of the axle ratings, then you have GVWR that you can't use, but end up paying for in increased registration fees and potentially pushing you over 26000 lbs. Basically the extra weight is being double bookkept.
You forgot the PIN WEIGHT....
Trailers are GVWR = (GAWR * # of AXLES) + PIN WEIGHT
Posted 2007-09-19 1:50 PM (#68106 - in reply to #66684) Subject: RE: Trouble hauling through Iowa
Member
Posts: 38
Location: texas
Happy Wednesday All, Had to go out of town over the weekend. I don't know much more on this issue. What I have been told concerning the tickets is, I need to get my CDL before Sept. 29, 2007 to get the tickets dismissed. The tickets are due on that date. No offense to people from Iowa, but your government officials are not so helpful. Gonna keep trying, let y'all know something when I do.
Posted 2007-09-20 1:45 PM (#68175 - in reply to #66684) Subject: RE: Trouble hauling through Iowa
Member
Posts: 32
Location: chatfield mn
I realize Im a little late to this thread, but have been away for a while. I deal with commercial vehicles on a regular so will try to offer some insight. The origional poster was most likely stopped to investigate weather or not it was a commercial vehicle. It may appear as if smaller rigs are being picked on but I think that over the years the larger rigs have been coming into compliance and now the DOT are working their way down and also making the smaller rigs conform to the regulations. If I inspect a smaller rig, it is not uncommon to find 12-15 violations. This makes some of them some of the worst violators. The origional poster said they were not aware they had to comply with the com veh regs. Im not sure if they handle their trips as a business, or strictly recreational. I find that some horse owners want to claim all expenses as a business deduction, but when stopped claim they are not a business. Yes, as some people suggest here, you can just lie to the officer, but someday you may find one that may not believe you. Or if you are truely a business, you can comply with the regulations.
These are federal regulation, and are the same in every state in the country. They apply if you are crossing state lines for commercial purposes. When you read the regs., remember there are 2 definitions of a commercial veh. 1 is in part 383 which deals with drivers licenses and the other is in part 390 which deals with everything else. 390 says any veh or combination over 10,000 is a com veh.
The reason gvwr is used for weight determination is because not every inspector has scales to weigh the vehs. Otherwise you may be ok without a load, but not loaded. If some are thinking about removing the vin sticker with the mfg gvwr I believe this is also a violation. Also think how you are now going to prove that that trailer is really yours as the lic plate could have come from anything, but you have just removed the vin number
As for putting rv plates on the trailer, it really doesnt mean anything. It is the use of the vehicles, not the registration on them that determines weather it is a com veh. The feds dont care what lic plates the states sell to you.
Not For Hire. This is a red flag that to me means that you know there are regulaltions out there but you dont think you should have to comply with them.
As far as myself, I haul horses over several states to trail ride every year and havent had a problem yet. Im lucky as i know the regulations and would be happy to clarify fed regs to amyone that wants to pm me. Now if anyone wants to talk about trying to figure out brand inspections, but thats another subject.
Posted 2007-09-20 3:49 PM (#68182 - in reply to #68175) Subject: RE: Trouble hauling through Iowa
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Posts: 2615
Originally written by mnhunter on 2007-09-20 1:45 PM
If I inspect a smaller rig, it is not uncommon to find 12-15 violations. As far as myself, I haul horses over several states to trail ride every year and havent had a problem yet.
Posted 2007-09-20 4:50 PM (#68187 - in reply to #66684) Subject: RE: Trouble hauling through Iowa
Location: KY
mnhunter
ANY vehicle (or combo) over 10,000 pounds is NOT a commercial vehicle. Recreational vehicles are clearly excepted. That is why all the people over who knows what age can drive those huge RV buses and pull anything they want behind them and they are not cdl/medical card qualified.
AND I can assure you that I do not need a cdl to drive my dually to the grocery store !
Posted 2007-09-20 10:06 PM (#68200 - in reply to #66684) Subject: RE: Trouble hauling through Iowa
Regular
Posts: 95
Location: East Central Kansas
If I ever get pulled over by the law enforcement community my story goes I am going to/from a trail ride in my rv. Thats my story and I am sticking to it.
Posted 2007-09-20 10:26 PM (#68201 - in reply to #68175) Subject: RE: Trouble hauling through Iowa
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Posts: 3853
Location: Vermont
Originally written by mnhunter on 2007-09-20 2:45 PM
I realize Im a little late to this thread, but have been away for a while. I deal with commercial vehicles on a regular so will try to offer some insight. The origional poster was most likely stopped to investigate weather or not it was a commercial vehicle. It may appear as if smaller rigs are being picked on but I think that over the years the larger rigs have been coming into compliance and now the DOT are working their way down and also making the smaller rigs conform to the regulations. If I inspect a smaller rig, it is not uncommon to find 12-15 violations. This makes some of them some of the worst violators. The origional poster said they were not aware they had to comply with the com veh regs. Im not sure if they handle their trips as a business, or strictly recreational. I find that some horse owners want to claim all expenses as a business deduction, but when stopped claim they are not a business. Yes, as some people suggest here, you can just lie to the officer, but someday you may find one that may not believe you. Or if you are truely a business, you can comply with the regulations.
These are federal regulation, and are the same in every state in the country. They apply if you are crossing state lines for commercial purposes. When you read the regs., remember there are 2 definitions of a commercial veh. 1 is in part 383 which deals with drivers licenses and the other is in part 390 which deals with everything else. 390 says any veh or combination over 10,000 is a com veh.
The reason gvwr is used for weight determination is because not every inspector has scales to weigh the vehs. Otherwise you may be ok without a load, but not loaded. If some are thinking about removing the vin sticker with the mfg gvwr I believe this is also a violation. Also think how you are now going to prove that that trailer is really yours as the lic plate could have come from anything, but you have just removed the vin number
As for putting rv plates on the trailer, it really doesnt mean anything. It is the use of the vehicles, not the registration on them that determines weather it is a com veh. The feds dont care what lic plates the states sell to you.
Not For Hire. This is a red flag that to me means that you know there are regulaltions out there but you dont think you should have to comply with them.
As far as myself, I haul horses over several states to trail ride every year and havent had a problem yet. Im lucky as i know the regulations and would be happy to clarify fed regs to amyone that wants to pm me. Now if anyone wants to talk about trying to figure out brand inspections, but thats another subject.
Well then you need a refresher course...
Sec. 390.3 General applicability.
(f) Exceptions. Unless otherwise specifically provided, the rules in this subchapter do not apply to--
(3) The occasional transportation of personal property by individuals not for compensation nor in the furtherance of a commercial enterprise;
Posted 2007-09-21 9:20 AM (#68214 - in reply to #66684) Subject: RE: Trouble hauling through Iowa
Member
Posts: 32
Location: chatfield mn
Yes I am one of them and was just trying to clear up a few things. I wasnt trying to say all vehs over 10,000 lbs are com vehs, only those being used for business purposes. As far as RVs go, they are exempt unless they are being used for business, then the same rules would apply. For example if you are in the horse business and are pulling a bumper pull trailer with a 30 foot motorhome and that trip is for business, then that combination would be a commercial vehicle regardless of the type of license plates on the motorhome. If you are using your motorhome to go from differant locations to sell stuff at horse shows and deduct your expenses for that rv, then that rv is a commercial vehicle if it has a GVWR over 10,000 lbs. Once again, these are federal laws and may not apply if you stay in your home state.
Posted 2007-09-21 1:05 PM (#68228 - in reply to #68214) Subject: RE: Trouble hauling through Iowa
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Posts: 3853
Location: Vermont
Originally written by mnhunter on 2007-09-21 10:20 AM
Yes I am one of them and was just trying to clear up a few things. I wasnt trying to say all vehs over 10,000 lbs are com vehs, only those being used for business purposes. As far as RVs go, they are exempt unless they are being used for business, then the same rules would apply. For example if you are in the horse business and are pulling a bumper pull trailer with a 30 foot motorhome and that trip is for business, then that combination would be a commercial vehicle regardless of the type of license plates on the motorhome. If you are using your motorhome to go from differant locations to sell stuff at horse shows and deduct your expenses for that rv, then that rv is a commercial vehicle if it has a GVWR over 10,000 lbs. Once again, these are federal laws and may not apply if you stay in your home state.
BUT HOW DO YOU KNOW IT IS BEING USED FOR BUSINESS???
A judge would say you are on a fishing expedition...if you stopped a large trailer without PROBABLE CAUSE...
OOOPS...I forgot HOMELAND SECURITY means our rights are now subjugated to THE STATE...
Posted 2007-09-21 1:22 PM (#68230 - in reply to #68228) Subject: RE: Trouble hauling through Iowa
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Posts: 2615
True,very true!!!
If they did a search,because people were known to be hauling drugs around by the tons in vehicles of this kind,it might be a LITTLE more understandable.
Bad when you have to bone up on the laws to protect yourself from the excessive use of them!!!
Posted 2007-09-21 1:44 PM (#68231 - in reply to #66684) Subject: RE: Trouble hauling through Iowa
Location: Oklahoma
IT IS PAINFULLY APPARENT SOME PEOPLE SPEND WAY TO MUCH TIME WATCHING "LAW & ORDER" WHY WOULD YOU TURN A THREAD ABOUT TRAILERS INTO A FEABLE ATTEMPT TO EXPRESS YOUR UNSOLICITED VIEWS REGARDING POLITICS? UNLESS YOU HAVE SERVED TIME PROTECTING(WHICH I DOUBT) OUR HOME LAND PLEASE KEEP YOUR VIEWS OFF THIS WEB SITE. THE FACT THAT YOU(CROWLEYRIDGEGIRL) OR WHAT EVER YOU NAME IS HAVE THE FREEDOM TO TRAVEL ACROSS THIS LAND PULLING A TRAILER IS SOMETHING YOU SHOULD NOT TAKE FOR GRANTED. I'M SURE BOTH YOU AND PAUL WERE BUSY ENJOYING YOU LIBERTYS ON 9-11.
Posted 2007-09-21 2:58 PM (#68233 - in reply to #68231) Subject: RE: Trouble hauling through Iowa
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Posts: 2615
Look,bub,I'll get on here whenever I FEEL like it just like everybody else does and express my views anytime I FEEL like it,too,that's another one of my freedoms.
I didn't turn a thread about "trailers" into a feable (mispelled incidentally) attempt to do anything about politics.I don't recall any political discussion occurring here.The thread isn't about "trailers" to begin with,it is about laws that affect trailer/horse haulers,and the attempts are to decipher the way that the DOT agents are handling these laws,right,wrong,or whatever.
Maybe you better go back and read from the first,wise guy.
Don't be telling me what to do or not do,either.What the *!@# were YOU doing on 9/11? I was probably getting ready to go take care of some sick folks like I've been doing for 36 yrs as a nurse.
Posted 2007-09-21 3:15 PM (#68234 - in reply to #68233) Subject: RE: Trouble hauling through Iowa
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Posts: 720
Location: Never miss a good chance to shut up.
Looks to me like there is some excellent information on this thread that should remain available to all. Unfortunately, we've had a minor skirmish break out in the kitchen and we'll have to close this down for public safety. I'll leave it up for viewing and reference.