'
1
Forums Albums Skins 1
Search Register Logon


You are logged in as a guest. Logon or register an account to access more features.
OTHER FORUMS:    Barrel Horses  -   Trucks   -   Cutting  -   Reining  -   Roping 
'
Urgent trailer brake wiring question. - MAJOR UPDATE

Jump to page : 1
Now viewing page 1 [25 messages per page]
Last activity 2006-03-24 6:40 PM
9 replies, 3741 views

View previous thread :: View next thread
   General Discussion -> Trailer Talk  Click to return to Barrel Talk
Refresh
Message format
 
Sharon
Reg. Mar 2004
Posted 2006-03-24 7:39 AM (#39428)
Subject: Urgent trailer brake wiring question. - MAJOR UPDATE



Veteran


Posts: 235
10010025
Location: Bucksport, Maine

I found out a while ago that my trailer brakes were wired into the trailer lights, NOT into the connector at the front of the trailer. I asked the shop guy if that was a problem and he said not really, they still work but it's just not done PROPERLY. He said it's actually pretty common... especially on older and/or low-budget trailers... I didn't have to fix it if money was tight (and it was).

But I've been having trouble getting the trailer brakes to not lock up when I step on the brake pedal even a little bit... so this morning I took the trailer back to the shop.  He drove it and re-adjusted the pendulum/leveling dial.  Once he did, he said the brakes felt normal to him.

My friend sent me this comment:

"You would never get me to tow a trailer that has been wired this way. You can have the greatest and best controller out there, and this is not going to work. The electric brakes "must" be on their own circuit, and the brake lights themselves on another circuit. Trying to run them both thru the same wiring is asking for trouble. The rewire is in order, if this is truly what you have. It would almost seem to me that being wired the other way would actually be a violation of DOT rules.

Brake controllers usually have a power setting so you can match it number of axles with brakes(not all dual axle trailers have brakes on both, something else you need to know) and then the weight of the trailer. Electric brakes use magnets in the wheels to apply the brake shoes. The power setting determines how strong the magnetic field is for that purpose. The other setting is for setting the "pendulum", which senses just how hard you are trying to stop. In normal travel, it will hang fairly straight up and down. When you start to stop, the pendulum swings to tell the controller just how much force is being put into the stop. This is how the controller knows how much juice/power to send to the brake magnets.

When the brake lights and the brakes themselves are tied together, you are using part of the power to activate the brakes to the lights themselves. So you have just introduced a by-pass into the circuit, so that the power to activate the magnetic field may never fully develop.

The other thing that is very important with the electric brakes, is the ground. If you have a rusty or faulty ground, you are also limiting the effectiveness of your brakes. Rust will act as a resister, lowering the power transfer thru that circuit. So if the trailer has some age, a little rust, wired as described above, you have a very large chance of finding yourself without brakes when you really need them.

I highly recommend that you spend the money and get the wiring fixed so it is done properly. I consider what you have now as being quite dangerous."

Who is right, the shop guy or my friend?  Do I need to get the wiring fixed to be safe? 



Edited by Sharon 2006-03-24 3:23 PM
share Top of the page Bottom of the page
xyzer
Reg. Apr 2004
Posted 2006-03-24 7:58 AM (#39430 - in reply to #39428)
Subject: RE: Urgent trailer brake wiring question.


Extreme Veteran


Posts: 366
1001001002525
Location: Albany, Oregon

Your friend is very correct!

share Top of the page Bottom of the page
hosspuller
Reg. Oct 2003
Posted 2006-03-24 10:49 AM (#39446 - in reply to #39428)
Subject: RE: Urgent trailer brake wiring question.


Expert


Posts: 2953
20005001001001001002525
Location: North Carolina
Your friend is indeed a friend.  And Correct.  The wiring change isn't a great issue.  Cut the wire to the lights and run another wire to the trailer connector.  (which should be at least a 5 pin. )  Maybe that'swhy the trailer was wired improperly.  There is only a 4 pin connector.  A new connector isn't much cost either.
share Top of the page Bottom of the page
horsey1
Reg. Dec 2004
Posted 2006-03-24 10:51 AM (#39448 - in reply to #39428)
Subject: RE: Urgent trailer brake wiring question.


Elite Veteran


Posts: 720
500100100
I think you need a new shop guy. If they brakes are wired with the lights, then adjusting the controller wouldn't have any affect. Either he's clueless, or is not able to properly explain it to you.
H1
share Top of the page Bottom of the page
Sharon
Reg. Mar 2004
Posted 2006-03-24 11:50 AM (#39453 - in reply to #39428)
Subject: RE: Urgent trailer brake wiring question.



Veteran


Posts: 235
10010025
Location: Bucksport, Maine
The connector is fine, it's a 7-round.  Thanks for your comments everyone, I'll have it taken care of!
share Top of the page Bottom of the page
Sharon
Reg. Mar 2004
Posted 2006-03-24 3:20 PM (#39463 - in reply to #39428)
Subject: RE: Urgent trailer brake wiring question.



Veteran


Posts: 235
10010025
Location: Bucksport, Maine

AAAAAAAAAAAAERRRRRRRRRGH! 

Just got off the phone with a different trailer shop.  This guy listened to my story, promised to check it out for free, explained electric brake wiring to me, asked a lot of questions, and then told me I didn't need to come in because if the green light on my brake controller comes on when I plug in the electric, which it DOES, it means the brakes are wired directly to the correct place on the wiring harness and talking properly to the truck (ie brake controller).

I don't know what the guy at the first shop has been smoking, but apparently they would have happily rewired my trailer without cause.  (They even wanted $200-300 for a job that I've heard is pretty quick and easy.)  Hell, I just found out they charged me like $40 just to look at it and give me an estimate!  (Though they probably wouldn't have charged me if I'd had them do the work... I hope...)

After I pick up my trailer tonight I will never be frequenting that first shop again. 

Unless, of course, y'all tell me the SECOND guy is on crack and his statement about the green light is wrong. 

share Top of the page Bottom of the page
hosspuller
Reg. Oct 2003
Posted 2006-03-24 3:50 PM (#39465 - in reply to #39463)
Subject: RE: Urgent trailer brake wiring question.


Expert


Posts: 2953
20005001001001001002525
Location: North Carolina
Originally written by Sharon on 2006-03-24 2:20 PM

AAAAAAAAAAAAERRRRRRRRRGH! 

Just got off the phone with a different trailer shop.  This guy listened to my story, promised to check it out for free, explained electric brake wiring to me, asked a lot of questions, and then told me I didn't need to come in because if the green light on my brake controller comes on when I plug in the electric, which it DOES, it means the brakes are wired directly to the correct place on the wiring harness and talking properly to the truck (ie brake controller).

I don't know what the guy at the first shop has been smoking, but apparently they would have happily rewired my trailer without cause.  (They even wanted $200-300 for a job that I've heard is pretty quick and easy.)  Hell, I just found out they charged me like $40 just to look at it and give me an estimate!  (Though they probably wouldn't have charged me if I'd had them do the work... I hope...)

After I pick up my trailer tonight I will never be frequenting that first shop again. 

Unless, of course, y'all tell me the SECOND guy is on crack and his statement about the green light is wrong. 

I'm telling you the brake controller will only "see" an electrical load.  That load, if as you told us in the original post is wired to the brake lights.  The controller doesn't know that, it sees a resistance and thinks everything is Okay.... hence the "green' light.

You said the brakes are not working correctly...  I trust your observations.  I don't trust someone's twice removed diagnois of a problem...  Neither should you.

share Top of the page Bottom of the page
iCE CRM
Reg. Jan 2005
Posted 2006-03-24 5:58 PM (#39471 - in reply to #39465)
Subject: RE: Urgent trailer brake wiring question.


Extreme Veteran


Posts: 379
100100100252525
Location: Columbia, TN
It looks to me that if the brake lights get brighter when you mash the brakes harder and you don't mind this (which I would) it should work ok. I would just want it to work the way it was intended. Even if it is wired correctly it may not lock up the wheels kind of depends on how heavy the trailer is and what kind of shape the magnets are. Good luck!
share Top of the page Bottom of the page
Mr. Trailer
Reg. Oct 2003
Posted 2006-03-24 6:00 PM (#39472 - in reply to #39428)
Subject: RE: Urgent trailer brake wiring question. - MAJOR UPDATE




100100
Location: Tuttle, OK

As always, I have to begin by saying that trouble shooting a trailer, especially wiring, is always difficult via the internet.

 

Having given the usual disclaimer, I am pretty sure that if your brake lights were truly operating your brakes, then you would also apply the brakes to one side when you turn on your signal light.

 

You could do some pretty easy tests to determine how your brake controller is hooked up, but my suspicion is that it is likely hooked up to your brakes rather than your brake lights doing the work.

 

I would recommend that you:

 

  • Jack the trailer up.
  • Get a standard battery charger and ground it to the trailer.
  • With a nail hooked to the hot lead, turn the charger on a low setting.
  • Then systematically touch the nail into the plug.
    • Do not put it into the big hole as it is the ground. If you do, the charger will spark a little, but shouldn’t cause any damage if you pull it immediately
  • As you go through the other holes you should find
    • 1 hole of the plug may (or may not) work the dome lights
    • 1 hole works the clearance lights (may also work the domes)
    • 1 hole works the right turn light
      • When you find this one, see if your wheels turn. If so, you are not running the brakes off of your tail lights
    • 1 hole works your left turn light
      •  When you find this one, see if your wheels turn. If so, you are not running the brakes off of your tail lights
    • 1 hole should work your brakes

 

If all the above checks out – tadaa, you are set and shop number one was mistaken.

 

Hope this helps.

share Top of the page Bottom of the page
Sharon
Reg. Mar 2004
Posted 2006-03-24 6:40 PM (#39474 - in reply to #39465)
Subject: RE: Urgent trailer brake wiring question.



Veteran


Posts: 235
10010025
Location: Bucksport, Maine
Originally written by hosspuller on 2006-03-24 3:50 PMYou said the brakes are not working correctly... I trust your observations...
Actually, once he adjusted the leveling dial, they did work fine. I had messed with it at some point and didn't know how to get it back.

I am going to take it to the second shop in a couple weeks so they can see first hand what's going on. But I'm betting the brake wires are hooked to the trailer plug, not to the tail light wires like the first place said. I was already convinced but the point about the turn signal made a ton of sense... the brakes do not come on when the turn signal comes on.

Sorry this whole topic turned out to be a false alarm!!!!

Edited by Sharon 2006-03-24 6:43 PM
share Top of the page Bottom of the page
Jump to page : 1
Now viewing page 1 [25 messages per page]
Jump to forum :
Search this forum
Printer friendly version
E-mail a link to this thread
Message format
 

'
Registered to: Horse Trailer World
(Delete all cookies set by this site)