Posted 2005-08-23 3:02 PM (#29529) Subject: electric brakes question
Member
Posts: 17
hi everyone. i'm new to horse trailer ownership and have some questions. i just bought a used trailer. has electric brakes on all 4 wheels. my towing vehicle has an electric brake controller installed as well. i'm trying ot understand how these two components work. i thought that the electric brake controller was sort of like an extra to help stop the trailer. but now i'm not so sure.
Posted 2005-08-23 3:13 PM (#29530 - in reply to #29529) Subject: RE: electric brakes question
Expert
Posts: 2957 Location: North Carolina
Hello .. welcome ..
Just what do you want to know? Technology question or operation question? What model controller do you have? Someone will have the same or know of it.
You need the trailer brakes since the tow vehicle can't do all the stopping in a panic situation. And many states require trailer brakes on something as heavy as a horse trailer.
Posted 2005-08-23 3:33 PM (#29531 - in reply to #29529) Subject: RE: electric brakes question
Veteran
Posts: 198 Location: Iowa
In simplest terms, your brake controller does just that...controls the trailer's electric brakes. When you step on your truck brakes, the brake controller activates your trailer brakes. The brake controller is wired into your wiring harness, and sends an electronic signal to your brakes, telling them how much brake should be applied. Different types of brake controllers work in different ways...but they all have the same purpose...activate the brakes on your trailer. Without a break controller, the electronic brakes on your trailer won't work. Most controllers have an adjustment that you can set to the individual trailer/load as to how much brake is applied.
Posted 2005-08-23 3:56 PM (#29533 - in reply to #29529) Subject: RE: electric brakes question
Member
Posts: 17
o.k. so when i pick up the trailer, i will be in my friend's truck which does not have an electric controller. so does that mean that during that trip home, the tow vehicle will be doing all the stopping and the trailer's wheels will just be rolling all the time?
and is there a preferred type of brake controller out there? i relied on the expertise of the guy installing it for me and to tell the truth i don't even know which one he chose but perhaps it's not too late for me to change it, if it turns out some are more desirable than others
Posted 2005-08-23 4:29 PM (#29534 - in reply to #29529) Subject: RE: electric brakes question
Veteran
Posts: 198 Location: Iowa
Yep...if your friend's truck doesn't have a brake controller, and your trailer has electric brakes, they will not function on the drive home. Your truck will be doing all the braking...so slow down gradually!! There are several good brake controllers out there...I have a Prodigy and really like it, and many people also like the Jordan controller.
Posted 2005-08-23 9:28 PM (#29547 - in reply to #29529) Subject: RE: electric brakes question
Expert
Posts: 2689
Originally written by mnk on 2005-08-23 3:02 PM
hi everyone. i'm new to horse trailer ownership and have some questions. i just bought a used trailer. has electric brakes on all 4 wheels. my towing vehicle has an electric brake controller installed as well. i'm trying ot understand how these two components work. i thought that the electric brake controller was sort of like an extra to help stop the trailer. but now i'm not so sure.
can someone please explain this to me?
thanks in advance!
marta
Hi and Welcome to the Forum
It is CRUDE - if you have any technical background you might want to just not even think about it (-:
The brake controller is basically a voltage amplifier that detects (usually) the decelleration of the tow vehicle and transmits a voltage to a magnet in each wheel's brake. The amount of the voltage determines the current, which in turn determines the magnetic force that causes the magnet (get ready for this) to cling to the rotating brake drum. The magnet is mounted to the end of an arm, as that arm is dragged around it operates a cam that expands the (circa 1920s design) brake shoes. The higher the current, the higher the magnetism, the greater force the arm exerts on the cam, the harder the brakes get applied, etc. - and the more the magnet's face wears.
OK, so CRUDE was an understatemment.
Yes, without a brake controller in the truck the trailer is without brakes. This can be dangerous, even with an empty trailer, and is usually illegal.
Although not required on trailers under 3,000 (maybe 3,500) lbs in some states, I'm fairly sure that if they ARE on a trailer they have to work - the truck has to be able to cause them to work, etc.
Good Luck,
Oh BTW, controllers are around $100 and their ad copy makes fascinating reading. Look up words like "inertia" before you read too much (-:
Posted 2005-08-24 9:05 AM (#29553 - in reply to #29529) Subject: RE: electric brakes question
Member
Posts: 17
LOL! you guys are funny... and scary;)
the trailer is relatively light 1900 lbs. friend's truck (w/ no brake controller) is big. i felt safer going w/ her truck b/c my truck is older and has no a/c and this is going to be an 8 hour trip (4 hours each way). the brake issue didn't occur to me until just now. i told the guy i'm buying the trailer from about this and he thought that we should be ok to get home like that, since there will be no load and the trailer is light.
so about the brake controllers, why did i read somewhere to make sure the little box under the dash is level so that it works well? that was a little unnerving - if it's not level then it doesn't work?
and also, what's the difference between the electric brakes and surge brakes?
Posted 2005-08-24 9:55 AM (#29556 - in reply to #29529) Subject: RE: electric brakes question
Veteran
Posts: 198 Location: Iowa
Reg will be able give you the full engineering breakdown, but I'll give you the quick "dummies" version (being one myself).
The older style inertial brake controllers needed to be leveled, but the new Prodigy models don't...that's one reason they're so popular. From their ads: "PRODIGY® is the most advanced and intelligent approach to trailer brake controls. PRODIGY®, requiring no manual leveling, is a technological breakthrough among inertia-activated brake controls. Equipped with a self-adjusting sensing device similar to the one used in guided-missile technology to allow for easy, flexible installation — from nearly horizontal to nearly vertical — PRODIGY® constantly adjusts itself to the position of the tow vehicle."
Surge brakes, to my understanding, don't need a brake controller...the work on momentum. Basically, when you start braking the forward momentum of your trailer activates the trailer brakes- the harder you brake, the higher the pressure on the surge system. I believe they aren't used much anymore, and are mainly found on boat trailers, where electric brakes don't work so well because of going in/out of water.
Posted 2005-08-24 12:32 PM (#29566 - in reply to #29556) Subject: RE: electric brakes question
Expert
Posts: 1391 Location: North of Detroit, MI
The brake controller has to be installed within the driver's reach. Many controllers can be installed at an angle - but in some cases, there is a limit to how "steep" the angle is.
Then, some controllers have dials or sliders on them. In my case, I have a Tekonsha Voyager (Tekonsha also makes the Prodigy - which I will get if I ever have to replace my Voyager model).
The Voyager requires the operator (driver) to hook up to the trailer, step on the brakes and adjust one of the dials to "level" the controller. Then, once that is done, you have to do some other things (drive down the road a ways, warm up the brakes, apply them and then using a different dial, adjust the "gain".
The Prodigy model is more advanced / enhanced. You only need to adjust the "gain" and it has a digital readout so that you can record that number for whenever you are using that particular configuration (say one number for 1 horse / weight, a different setting/number for 2 horses, etc.)
You should have an owner's book that comes with whatever controller was installed. The Prodigy is about $20 - $50 more than the Voyager.
If you have a Tekonsha brand brake controller, you can go to their website - they have much helpful info there... including owner manuals. http://tekonsha.com/#Welcome
If your friend's truck is a full-sized pickup and the driving conditions are dry and clear and you use caution... you could probably be alright. My concern is that, if you don't trust your own truck for that kind of trip... how can you feel good about putting your horse(s) in the trailer and hauling them? It would be good practice for you and help you get to know how to drive with something behind you.
Posted 2005-08-24 1:24 PM (#29569 - in reply to #29529) Subject: RE: electric brakes question
Member
Posts: 17
gabz
you make a good point there. i'll be honest w/ you - i don't feel like driving in a truck in august in the northeast w/o ac. that's really what it boils down to. and so far, everyone tells me taht so long as it's just the empty 1900 lbs trailer that i'm hauling, i can do it w/o the electric brake controller.
my truck just made that trip couple of months ago. it runs great. i am having a mechanic give it a once over before i start hauling.
thanks again for the info and your thoughts!
Posted 2005-08-25 7:30 AM (#29587 - in reply to #29529) Subject: RE: electric brakes question
Expert
Posts: 2689
Hi mnk,
Did you look up "inertia" yet ?
No ?
OK, you WILL be confused, not so much by me and others here, more by the manufacturers' literature.
(If you had nothing better to do) You could put a golf ball in a cereal bowl and walk across the room with it fairly level. If you try to stop suddenly the ball will tend to roll up the side of the bowl - assuming you don't tip the bowl to prevent this from happening. THAT is a model of an INERTIA type brake controller and it gives some idea of why it needs to be "leveled".
The term "leveled" has been passed down to later designs and is now used to represent the corresponding set-up on controllers that don't need to be physically horizontal. What I think the steps you go through actually DO is set up an amp's initial bias and gain.
I also believe that most of the claims to "disprove" Albert E. on the e=mc2 thang are written by folk who confuse momentum, inertia and kinetic energy.
As I said earlier, you might be better off just not trying to understand this stuff, it really DOESN'T make sense, though most of it seems to work most of the time. Following the directions that come in the box also works, not a GUY thing to do I'll admit, but they're required to print that stuff for product liability reasons.
Posted 2005-08-26 11:40 AM (#29635 - in reply to #29529) Subject: RE: electric brakes question
Member
Posts: 17
reg,
i did in fact look up the mfr's websites. caused more confusion but your explanation of inertia is perfect for my level of science/tech knowledge.
the reason i wanted to understand the difference between electric, inertia and surge brakes is b/c when i did some research on various light trailers, i came across brenderups which have 'inertia' brakes. subsequently, i came across a discussion on another board re inertia brakse v. surge brakes - are they one and the same or different? and hence my inquiry.
Posted 2005-08-26 7:15 PM (#29644 - in reply to #29635) Subject: RE: electric brakes question
Expert
Posts: 2689
Originally written by mnk on 2005-08-26 11:40 AM
reg,
i did in fact look up the mfr's websites. caused more confusion but your explanation of inertia is perfect for my level of science/tech knowledge.
the reason i wanted to understand the difference between electric, inertia and surge brakes is b/c when i did some research on various light trailers, i came across brenderups which have 'inertia' brakes. subsequently, i came across a discussion on another board re inertia brakse v. surge brakes - are they one and the same or different? and hence my inquiry.
Right...
B-Ups have mechanical surge brakes, boat trailers typically have hydraulic surge brakes - each of these use the force of the towed vehicle pushing on the towing vehicle to apply the brakes. Electric brake controllers depend on current generating a magnetic field.... as previously described.
There is a lag with either of these major types, since they depend on some decelleration of the towing vehicle, there is a bit of current sent "immediately", but not enough to do any serious slowing.
YA NEED BRAKES !
I'm sceptical of that 1900 lbs figure, current models are in the 2500 to 3000 lb range, you might be pulling a lot more than you've bargained for.
Posted 2005-08-27 3:50 PM (#29660 - in reply to #29529) Subject: RE: electric brakes question
Member
Posts: 17
reg,
you're scaring me about the weight thing. why do you think an aluminum stock would weigh that much? my friend's steel stock weighs around 2500 lbs...
Posted 2005-08-27 7:52 PM (#29664 - in reply to #29529) Subject: RE: electric brakes question
Member
Posts: 26 Location: Ontario, Canada
I'd suggest that you get your friend to double check the weight of that trailer, I know our older 2 horse bumper pull (no changeroom or tack) weighs around 2500#. (I'd have to look it up to confirm for sure, I don't recall where I have the record for it kept right now.) Unless their stock is a fairly small one, I'd have to think it's heavier than 2500#.
Posted 2005-08-27 8:59 PM (#29666 - in reply to #29660) Subject: RE: electric brakes question
Expert
Posts: 2689
Originally written by mnk on 2005-08-27 3:50 PM
reg,
you're scaring me about the weight thing. why do you think an aluminum stock would weigh that much? my friend's steel stock weighs around 2500 lbs...
Sorry, I didn't notice the word "Stock". I no longer have an opinion, other than that 1900 seems light - to ME - though I have horse trailers.
FWIW, etc.
From recent posts the B-Up is about 2100/2200, I know my 2 horse aluminum HORSE trailer is 2870 empty. Without wanting to venture into a brand name war, I think it is one of the brands generally thought to be a bit on the "hefty" side of average. Which lead to my recent comment about the B-Up weighing only about a pony weight less than a full size 2 horse trailer.
Posted 2005-08-28 10:42 AM (#29681 - in reply to #29529) Subject: RE: electric brakes question
Member
Posts: 17
actually a brenderup is below 2000 lbs. i think perhaps the one w/ their version of a dressing room exceeds 2000 lbs but not by much. well, i've checked and checked and the 1900 lbs keeps on coming up so i guess i'll look at the tag, maybe take it to the weigh station if it doesn't list the weight there. but the 12 foot delta steel stocks weigh 2300 lbs so i don't necessarily see why 1900 lbs would be such a far fetched idea.
electric brakes question
