I have a 12' shell living quarter area available for conversion. We really want a wet living quarter. My wife and I are very handy and want to do the conversion at home. The issue I'm having is the placement and installation of the gray/waste tanks. Under my GN horse trailer, the I-Beams are 12" OC from front to back. Where and how do these tanks get installed? I've searched everywhere and can't find the info were looking for. Pictures / video's would be very helpful.
Posted 2013-01-10 7:02 AM (#149233 - in reply to #149217) Subject: RE: HELP: Gray / Waste Tank Installation
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 402 Location: Valentine, NE
I would contact the trailer manufacture and get a copy of the build sheet. It tells you where they framed for the tanks. Usually pretty ease to tell as they typically leave out a few I beams to allow room. It would be unusual but if they didn't leave out the beams, you can put tanks about anywhere, but it they would hang down more than normal and could present problems dragging them. Our first trailer, we had to cut part of the beams out to get the tanks up in the floor and that was a major pain and wouldn't recommend that.
As far as hanging them, pretty straight forward. Where you buy them should have the staps needed.
Posted 2013-01-10 8:56 AM (#149236 - in reply to #149217) Subject: RE: HELP: Gray / Waste Tank Installation
Expert
Posts: 5870 Location: western PA
Because the floor joists are so close together, the installation of a tank of sufficient size, will involve the removal of at least part of one joist. The entire joist does not have to be removed, just the vertical web and the bottom plate. The top plate is left in place to contribute stiffness to the flooring. We used several different tools that cut an aluminum joist. With steel joists, it might be cost effective and a labour savings, to have a fab shop use their plasma cutter to effect the cut.
Depending upon your intended usage, you may want to consider only the installation of a black water tank, omitting the gray tank. When we were installing a LQ in a weekender package, we only had the galley and bathroom toilet to drain. The shower was installed as a cowboy usage in the first stall. With only the galley sink water to collect, it's drain was connected to the black tank. If you are collecting the drainings of multiple sinks and a shower, a separate gray tank will be necessary.
The tanks are held into place with either straps or flange harware, or a combination of both, which is what we used. A spacer is installed around the tank's perimiter, that is equal to the thickness of the top web that was left in place. We used treated lumber ripped on a table saw. The only way to properly mount the tanks is between the joists. There is not enough ground clearance to mount them under the joists.
Another installation you might want to consider if you desire to simplify things, is using a toilet style found in truck campers. Some are stand alone units, having their own integeral tanks and are designed to be surface mounted on top of the flooring.
Accessing the internet, you will find many sources of the tanks. They list the available sizes and construction material. If you purchase the abs tanks instead of the polyethylene materials, you will find the installation and subsequent repairs/modifications to be much easier.
Posted 2013-03-23 12:20 PM (#150754 - in reply to #149217) Subject: Gray / Waste Tank Installation
Veteran
Posts: 175 Location: Florida
Gard -Sounds like you have some experience here. What do you think about installing the 12" tank from the top ? - Cutting the aluminum floor between the Floor joists and setting the tank in from the top, Supporting it on the flange, sealing it to the inside floor / beams. It would raise the tank another 1 - 1-1/2" and not cut any structural beams. It would then be covered with insulation board and the plywood sub floor, before the finish floor. Could make this job much easier. ??
Posted 2013-03-23 3:50 PM (#150764 - in reply to #149217) Subject: RE: HELP: Gray / Waste Tank Installation
Expert
Posts: 5870 Location: western PA
I would not want to cut out the flooring of a trailer. Most are engineered to provide part of the overall strength of the "box", and are a structural element. This is especially true of a plank flooring system, that consists of welds for each plank at each joist. For instance, a sheet flooring such as 4 Star, would be less stressed than a plank system built by Exiss.
It doesn't take that much work to properly install a tank, and if done correctly, will often last many trouble free years. The only floor cutting for a tank is two holes, a vent and fill. They are circular and won't weaken the flooring. Personally, if I were buying a used trailer and found one that had its flooring removed across its width, I would out of hand reject it for my ownership.
Sorry I don't agree on this type of installation. I think it would be a mistake and greatly devalue the trailer.
Posted 2013-03-23 4:58 PM (#150766 - in reply to #149217) Subject: RE: HELP: Gray / Waste Tank Installation
Veteran
Posts: 175 Location: Florida
This trailer also has 4 'stress bands' running lengthwise to the trailer, welded to the bottom of each floor beam. In order to come in from the bottom, they all will have to be removed from that bay, and the flange of one of the floor beams cut out in order to rotate the tank into position. I would replace the stress bands with beam clamps and tie rods. Was about to cut them and the flange on the beam, before i thought about coming in from the top. What's the better way ? Thanks for your advice.
Posted 2013-03-23 11:06 PM (#150771 - in reply to #149217) Subject: RE: HELP: Gray / Waste Tank Installation
Expert
Posts: 5870 Location: western PA
My background is not one of engineering, although my job included exactly following engineering blue prints. For three and a half decades, as a certified mechanic, I spent time in the fabrication, repair and maintenance of commercial aircraft with their aluminum structures. My experiences are based on the protocols I was bound to follow, as provided by both our government, and the many individual manufactures of whose aircraft I serviced.
My best advice would be to contact the manufacturer of your trailer, and ask for a list of their recommended LQ conversion installers. Talk to as many of these representatives as you can. If at all possible, look for a conversion that has been made for a trailer like yours. If that fails, I would look for a structural engineer to advise you in your quest.
To reiterate, if this were my trailer, I would not cut the flooring across the trailer's width and replace it with plywood. Take a cardboard shoe box, tape all the joints and try to bend it over its length. It is quite rigid and strong for its weight, very similar to structural square tubing. Now cut one of the length wise pieces across its width. Bending it again upward over its length with the cut on the bottom, you will find the box will easily crush into two sections, whilst failing at the cut line.
Posted 2013-03-27 9:18 AM (#150888 - in reply to #149217) Subject: RE: HELP: Gray / Waste Tank Installation
Regular
Posts: 55
I had the same problem but only put in a gray water as I am using a pota-potty. From some very helpful advice from Gard (Thank you Gard!) I ordered a 16 gallon Poly RV holding tank from Plastic-Mart which has a website. They had just the size I needed to fit nicely between the floor joists being 63"Lx 10"Wx 8" H. It runs most of the with of the trailer but still leaving room for the end drain which sets back under the trailer keeping it safe from damage. I had a man who has worked on RV's strap it up there and connected my pluming to it by drilling through the floor. It's like it was made for my trailer.