Posted 2009-03-20 5:48 PM (#101837) Subject: What bit to try?
Member
Posts: 30 Location: Fort Jones, Ca.
Here is good question for you. I have a big ol' Appaloosa that rides good in a hackamore, but you put a bit in his mouth and he just doesn't like it. I knew this was somewhat of an issue when I bought him 1 1/2 years ago and I think part of the problem is that someone really tried to crank on him with a bit. I found that he was not real trusting of people and things. When I first tried to bit him, it was a fight the entire time. At least I can now put a ring snaffle in his mouth and work with that, but he is just not comfortable with it. I am thinking of using a Sliester low port with a hooded cricket as that would give him tongue relief plus something to keep him busy with on the cricket. Any ideas or comments?
Posted 2009-03-20 6:19 PM (#101839 - in reply to #101837) Subject: RE: What bit to try?
Expert
Posts: 1391 Location: North of Detroit, MI
Are you showing the horse? Is that why you need to use a bit? Showing western or english?
In a shanked bit, a grazing bit or junior cutter is a pretty easy bit for most horses. Many horses do not like a jointed bit because it folds and jabs them in the roof of the mouth. (My QH hates jointed mouthpieces. I have a fancy curved back grazing bit, but he goes the best in the lightweight Jr Cutter with NO roller https://www.nrsworld.com/istar.asp?a=6&id=BIT640!REI) https://www.nrsworld.com/istar.asp?a=6&id=BIT646!REI
A medium port, copper mouthed bit, with fixed or argentine / loose cheek shanks that are curved back is an easy to pack bit for many horses.
Or a bit with a Billy Allen joint is another one that helps you if you need to work each side of the horse independently without jabbing the roof of the mouth. http://www.rods.com/dg/235,123_Billy-Allen-Bits.html
I like the one called the "Reiner" and also the "short shank snaffle" (which isn't a true snaffle, but can be used like a D-ring by putting reins on the "D"s instead of the shank) these are EXTREMELY well made bits with a lot of engineering behind them. I buy mine at http://www.west20.com/ they have good prices and low shipping.
On the other hand, if I needed a snaffle bit, and the horse was not comfortable in a single-jointed mouthpiece, I would go to a french link (lays flat on the tongue versus a Dr Bristol, which stands up on the edge) or a similiar multi-jointed mouthpiece.
Posted 2009-03-20 8:36 PM (#101845 - in reply to #101837) Subject: RE: What bit to try?
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 434 Location: Brooksville, Fl
Have your vet or dentist evaluate the horse to be sure there are no dental problems. Then evaluate your horse's mouth. Some horses have small mouths or low palates that make some bits very uncomfortable for them. Sometimes a double jointed snaffle helps these horse such as a french link snaffle. JP bits by Korsteel are curved to fit the horse's mouth and are not terribly expensive and sometimes work well. I have a Morgan with such a mouth. I trail ride him in a hackamore and when I work dressage with him I use either a single jointed JP snaffle or a mullen mouth snaffle and he does fairly well in both.
Posted 2009-03-20 8:37 PM (#101847 - in reply to #101837) Subject: RE: What bit to try?
Regular
Posts: 97 Location: Newport News, VA
Have you had a vet or dentist check the horse's mouth carefully for anything that might make bitting physically uncomfortable for the horse? A dentist or vet could give you some ideas what type of bit would be best for your horse's mouth conformation. A have a young warmblood headed for the show hunter ring and it took a few tries to find the bit that was comfortable for her. The first one that I expected to make her happy, obviously didn't and she chewed on it incessantly. It was very annoying for my hands. It was a snaffle with copper and stainless steel rollers. You would have thought a young, mouthy horse would love it. I did notice that it would fold completely in half, so I thought possibly it might poke her in the pallate, so I tried a fat rubber snaffle. It did not fold completely. She did not chew it as much, but seemed to carry her head higher. My thought was that the fat mouthpiece, although very mild, might be too large for her small mouth. I eventually settled on a french link snaffle. That's the snaffle with the little oval piece in the middle, so it has 3 joints. It is not as bulky as the rubber and just sort of collapses, rather than folds which sends the single jointed ones upward toward the pallate. I have been using the Happy Mouth one, which is an apple flavored plastic mouth piece. She seems to go quite comfortably in that one. See if you can find some friends with some different bits you can try. Trial and error when you are buying can get expensive. My trainer once told me that you never get rid of a bit, because you never know when you will need it, again.
Posted 2009-03-20 8:44 PM (#101848 - in reply to #101837) Subject: RE: What bit to try?
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 317 Location: Barnesville, Ga.
If you are sure that your horses issues are not tooth related; ask someone who makes bits. Look at www.lwbits.com. He has made numerous bits for me for horses that need brakes to pony bits that were very mild. I have had excellent luck with the bits he has suggested for my horses and he is reasonably priced. Most of the bits he has made for me were around $50. Another option is to just ride him in a hackamore unless you are just wanting to do something with him that requires a bit. Good luck.
Posted 2009-03-21 9:45 AM (#101860 - in reply to #101837) Subject: RE: What bit to try?
Expert
Posts: 1989 Location: South Central OK
If you need more power steering then a full cheek snaffle would be a great stepping off point from your current snaffle. A mullen mouth bit would be the next best step into a shanked bit.
Maybe this is the reason I only wanted to ride English after my first lesson...you can't really ever go wrong with a good old snaffle bit in just about every horse.
Posted 2009-03-21 7:35 PM (#101879 - in reply to #101837) Subject: RE: What bit to try?
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 522 Location: Tucumcari NM
Why change him out of a hackamore at all? If he is comfortable and works well in it, why change? Two of my horses have never had a bit in their mouths. They work just fine, and I don't have to switch to a halter to let them graze on the trail.
Posted 2009-04-09 5:35 PM (#103060 - in reply to #101860) Subject: RE: What bit to try?
Regular
Posts: 67 Location: Alberta
Originally written by huntseat on 2009-03-21 8:45 AM
you can't really ever go wrong with a good old snaffle bit in just about every horse.
You should try this out...
Test your current bit On a bare arm, place a regular, jointed Snaffle mouthpiece in the crook of your elbow, bending your arm upward at a 90 degrees angle. Have someone, directly infront of you, grab both rings and pull backward and slightly upward on the bit. The center of the mouthpiece will drive into your elbow and pinch the sides of your arm. Try lifting one side of the Snaffle upward and then the other—be careful, though, this could draw blood.If you're like most people, this hurts and that pinch is what your horse's tongue and bars feel. When horses are asked to perform in Snaffle bits with constant rein pressure, it's an unrelenting pinch on the tongue and the bars. You can feel for yourself how hard it is for your horse to be comfortable, release his tongue and / or swallow without evading the bit.Try this test with a variety of bits. You might notice that the Snaffle is not the gentlest of bits as it is sometimes reputed to be.
Posted 2009-04-09 7:06 PM (#103063 - in reply to #103060) Subject: RE: What bit to try?
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 378 Location: Nebraska
I disagree with your bit in the arm idea. If a snaffle bit is so harsh, why are young horses started with a snaffle, to ride thur the bucks, learn to stop and be soft and responsive. They understand to be soft and responsive with a mild bit. A horse's natural instinct is to move away from pressure and can be taught to respond to light pressure or alot of pressure, If he is taught and trained to ignore the bit he will keep getting duller and duller. You end using more and more leverage going down to the store and purchasing one of those "Wonder Bits" with the high port and lonnng shanks. I say improve your horsemanship.
Posted 2009-04-09 11:28 PM (#103094 - in reply to #101837) Subject: RE: What bit to try?
Location: KY
The first bit we put in a youngster's mouth is a rubber "dog bone" mouthpiece on rings.
HConley: I fear the answer to your "why" question is the 30 year rule (or 100 year rule) as in we've been doing it that way for _______ years so it must be right.
Posted 2009-04-10 7:17 AM (#103097 - in reply to #103094) Subject: RE: What bit to try?
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 378 Location: Nebraska
The answer to the "why" question is because there is 2 sides to every horse,left and right. The snaffle is the only bit you can use to isolate the 2 sides. The old buckaroos had very good horsemanship skills, they never used bits until the US Army wanted their horses to protect and serve in the old west, and the army required the horses had to be able to carry a bit. The buckaroos used the snaffle bit to maintain softness in the tradition of their horsemanship.
Posted 2009-04-10 10:38 AM (#103119 - in reply to #101837) Subject: RE: What bit to try?
Elite Veteran
Posts: 662 Location: Vanzant, Missouri
I had a QH that I bought and he was ridden in a hackamore. I also tried to put a bit in his mouth and he didn't want anything to do with it. He would toss his head and wouldn't quit until you took it out of his mouth. So I stayed with the hackamore. Plus my horse was happier and did what I asked. Personally I would rather use a bosal or hack and keep the metal out of thier mouth....
Posted 2009-04-14 10:20 AM (#103337 - in reply to #103063) Subject: RE: What bit to try?
Regular
Posts: 67 Location: Alberta
Originally written by hconley on 2009-04-09 6:06 PM
I disagree with your bit in the arm idea. If a snaffle bit is so harsh, why are young horses started with a snaffle, to ride thur the bucks, learn to stop and be soft and responsive. They understand to be soft and responsive with a mild bit. A horse's natural instinct is to move away from pressure and can be taught to respond to light pressure or alot of pressure, If he is taught and trained to ignore the bit he will keep getting duller and duller. You end using more and more leverage going down to the store and purchasing one of those "Wonder Bits" with the high port and lonnng shanks. I say improve your horsemanship.
I think you are missing the point of the test. If you look at most snaffles out there (like this one http://www.dansboots.com/dansboots/assets/product_images/bitbarreld... ) there is a serious pinch point in the center. For an experienced rider with soft hands, a jump to a bit with more leverage sooner is a good thing. Whether you ride in a snaffle or a bit with a shank you should improve your horsemanship!
Posted 2009-04-14 10:38 AM (#103339 - in reply to #103097) Subject: RE: What bit to try?
Regular
Posts: 67 Location: Alberta
Originally written by hconley on 2009-04-10 6:17 AM
The answer to the "why" question is because there is 2 sides to every horse,left and right. The snaffle is the only bit you can use to isolate the 2 sides.
That is absolutely not true! A bit with at least a double break with a proper barrel(s) isolates both sides of the mouth and gives you way more control.
If you ride in a snaffle with a set rein attachment (ie your reins are not "moving" up and down the D) you actually lose the isolation when the 0's of the mouthpiece bind, thereby affecting the other side of the mouth.
To test this take any bit in your hands in front of you, raise one hand independently, and if you feel pressure in the other hand you do not have a bit that isolates one side.
Posted 2009-04-18 1:45 AM (#103543 - in reply to #103471) Subject: RE: What bit to try?
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 378 Location: Nebraska
Com'on bubba you need to clean the cob webs out of that open mind. Horsemanship training didn't start 30 years ago. Training horses to be soft and supple has been around for 2500 years more or less. It was about this time that the snaffle bit was invented. The use of brute force to break horses has been out of style for 500 years. I seriously doubt there is anything new in training horses. I know the old western movies make for some good entertainment, but it's time to put them John Wayne movies away and get up off the couch.
Posted 2009-04-21 12:33 PM (#103728 - in reply to #101837) Subject: RE: What bit to try?
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 522 Location: Tucumcari NM
The severity of the bit has at least as much to do with the softness of the riders hands as it does with the design of the bit. A rider with rough hands is always going to have problems regardless of the bit in their horse's mouths.
What bit to try?
