Posted 2018-01-06 4:33 PM (#171079) Subject: Do I need a CDL?
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 391 Location: Columbia, KY
Sorry for asking if this has been discussed before - but I'm very confused. I'd always thought the the only time a person needed a CDL for hauling horses (non commercial) is if the total weight was over 26K lbs. I'm near that but never over.
Now I'm reading for any trailer with a GVW > 10K you'd need a CDL - huh?? I don't haul commercially and live in KY where they don't even require trailers to be registered or licensed. Mine are licensed only b/c I travel all over, which also means I pay personal property tax on my trailers (which puts me in the minority but that's a whole 'nother subject)
Posted 2018-01-06 6:29 PM (#171080 - in reply to #171079) Subject: RE: Do I need a CDL?
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 448 Location: Los Angeles, Ca.
From Ky.gov.......D
Operators, Class D*
*This class of license includes passenger cars, station wagons, pickup trucks, utility vehicles, and most panel trucks. This type and class of license is valid for any single motor vehicle, and a trailer, with weights not greater than 26,000 pounds, designed to carry less than 16 passengers (including the driver) and not placarded for the purpose of transporting hazardous materials.
True- but applies to RVs. If you are registered as an RV, you should be exempt. But many horse trailers are not RVs.And- if it is used in a situation where money changes hands, then the RV exemption is usually negated as the officer or judge will consider it commercial.
Posted 2018-01-08 8:12 AM (#171090 - in reply to #171079) Subject: RE: Do I need a CDL?
Elite Veteran
Posts: 720
You note GVW. But all of the guidelines refer not to GVW, but GVWR, as in RATING. What is the GVWR of your truck & trailer? It is easy to get over 26K with many trucks and trailers today. Even if you never actually weigh anything close.
Posted 2018-01-08 8:41 AM (#171091 - in reply to #171079) Subject: RE: Do I need a CDL?
Veteran
Posts: 108 Location: Lawrence KS
I spoke to a Highway patrolman in Kansas about this. She said first of all if you are trailriding for pleasure it is not commercial even if you are hauling 50,000 lbs. You may need a class A but that is not a commercial license ( CDL ). Beyond that it appears there is some Gray areas such as the RV exemption.
Posted 2018-01-09 8:35 PM (#171097 - in reply to #171079) Subject: RE: Do I need a CDL?
Veteran
Posts: 233 Location: Pataskala, Ohio
I am from Ohio and a retired police officer, city cop so I asked a Trooper at Quarter Horse Congress where all the trucks told of their ability to pull greater than 26,001 pounds.
Without sighting passages it is if the rig is Capable of greater than 26,001 pounds or the trailer is Capable of greater than 10,001 pounds then you must have a CDL. So from our law everyone driving a new 1 ton needs a CDL and most new LQ trailer need one as well.
The Trooper gave me the answer I expected “Well it depends.” He looked at me and grinned saying “I never thought of pickups as needing a CDL but looks like they might, depends on who stops them.”
So the short of it is a very deffinate maybe, it could be possible you need a CDL to even drive a new dully let alone allow a horse to see you driving it.
I still drive with my 12,000-13,000 pound trailer and I have no CDL.
Posted 2018-01-10 4:27 PM (#171102 - in reply to #171079) Subject: RE: Do I need a CDL?
Expert
Posts: 3853 Location: Vermont
This question rates an answer of YMMV...
It depends on so many things...are the police in revenue raising mode...do you have a living quarters that qualifies it as an RV...are you hauling horses other than your own...attending a horseshow where there is cash money awarded, even if its not in the classes you ride in...do you have lettering on your truck or trailer...and on and on...
Posted 2018-01-10 8:34 PM (#171103 - in reply to #171079) Subject: RE: Do I need a CDL?
Elite Veteran
Posts: 656 Location: Rayne, LA
do you have lettering on your truck or trailer.--- Paul why does lettering matter? Can't I call my truck/trailer " Sweet Betsy" and it doesn't matter? Just lettering doesn't mean it is commercial
Posted 2018-01-11 1:02 AM (#171104 - in reply to #171103) Subject: RE: Do I need a CDL?
Expert
Posts: 3853 Location: Vermont
cajunmuleman - 2018-01-10 11:34 PM do you have lettering on your truck or trailer.--- Paul why does lettering matter? Can't I call my truck/trailer " Sweet Betsy" and it doesn't matter? Just lettering doesn't mean it is commercial
If you have something like Southfork Arabians, or Down-on-our-luck Farm, etc...DOT will tend to think you are commercial...:(
Posted 2018-01-12 3:09 AM (#171112 - in reply to #171079) Subject: RE: Do I need a CDL?
Expert
Posts: 2953 Location: North Carolina
It's best to look at your driver's license and the vehicle plate of the truck & trailer.
For NC class C : "any non-commercial single vehicle with GVWR of less than 26,001 pounds. A vehicle towing a vehicle has a combined GVWR of less than 26,001 pounds operated by a driver 18 years or older."
The 2018 Chevy dually has a GVWR of 15,500 so 26,000 - 15,500 = 10,500
So any trailer more than 10,500 GVWR needs a class a license in NC.
Posted 2018-01-13 7:12 PM (#171115 - in reply to #171112) Subject: RE: Do I need a CDL?
Veteran
Posts: 233 Location: Pataskala, Ohio
hosspuller - 2018-01-12 4:09 AM
It's best to look at your driver's license and the vehicle plate of the truck & trailer.
For NC class C : "any non-commercial single vehicle with GVWR of less than 26,001 pounds. A vehicle towing a vehicle has a combined GVWR of less than 26,001 pounds operated by a driver 18 years or older."
The 2018 Chevy dually has a GVWR of 15,500 so 26,000 - 15,500 = 10,500
So any trailer more than 10,500 GVWR needs a class a license in NC.
That is a trailer that can weigh more than 10,500 lbs max weight not empty.
Posted 2018-01-14 5:05 PM (#171117 - in reply to #171079) Subject: RE: Do I need a CDL?
Member
Posts: 8
My trailer is 14,500, without horses. I pull with a 2004 Topkick with a Western Hauler conversion. The truck weighs 12,250, empty and dry. I fully believe that I should be considered an RV since I do not declare any part of my horse hobby as a business on my tax returns, and have never hauled for points or money. That being said, according to the DOT, any trailer over 10,000 lbs requires a CDL, the only exception being an RV. Since the citing officer has the ability to determine my status, without appeal, in the moment I am pulled over, no matter my stance, I could be stranded waiting for a valid CDL to come and get me. With my horses, wife and perhaps a couple of dogs in the vehicle, I am unwilling to let Barney Fife impede my progress toward my destination. It is just easier to get the CDL and maintain the logs(will be using a phone app).
I live in KY, and here I have a 150 mile range that I can pull without restriction. This is not reciprocal across state lines, so I either stay in my own state with my horses, or get a CDL. KY doesn't even require a tag for any livestock trailer. This is reciprocal, but I know that getting a non KY law enforcement official to understand this, can be a monumental task. I now have my trailer plated, even though it is not required. Again, just easier to avoid conflict and delays.
Posted 2018-01-14 9:02 PM (#171118 - in reply to #171079) Subject: RE: Do I need a CDL?
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 379 Location: Missouri
Don't put your farm name on the truck or trailer, don't haul for hire and you won't need a CDL. If you are hauling to competitions, well that because a gray area because they could argue the prize money or ribbons furthers your buisness. The bottom line is if you're not operating in COMMERCE, then a CDL is not required.
Posted 2018-01-16 5:44 AM (#171130 - in reply to #171117) Subject: RE: Do I need a CDL?
Veteran
Posts: 168 Location: Minnesota
A CDL in and by itself is not enough if you believe you need one. If you believe your vehicle falls under the commerical class, ie "for hire". For your CDL to be good, you must have a medical exam on file; you need to be in an acholoc / drug testing program; you must have an annual inspection on your equipment; maintenance files on your equipment; a driver's file on yourself and any other drivers of this equipment, with a program to review this file annually; maintain a record of hours of service or if more than 100 miles, a log book; to name a few of the items required. Also, you will need various items such as an IFTA sticker, maybe commerical license plates, subject to audits by any state you enter as well as federal agencies. Oh, and let us not forget the US DOT number and operating authority (MC #).
Posted 2018-01-16 1:47 PM (#171134 - in reply to #171079) Subject: RE: Do I need a CDL?
Veteran
Posts: 108 Location: Lawrence KS
^^^^^ Agreed -
I'm not sure why people are confusing the need for a Class A license and calling it a CDL. ?CDL is for commercial purposes - Class A is for heavier weights.
Posted 2018-01-16 9:35 PM (#171135 - in reply to #171121) Subject: RE: Do I need a CDL?
Expert
Posts: 3853 Location: Vermont
hosspuller - 2018-01-15 4:03 AM Careful ... We're speaking about two different things. A license is classed and then there is CDL (Commercial) One has to have the proper class license for the vehicle size / weight. If in commercial service then a CDL is also required. Example: In North Carolina... Class A license cost $5 per year. A Commercial Class A license costs $20 per year.
Many stated do NOT have classed licenses...but use the CDL for those specific needs
Posted 2018-01-17 10:27 AM (#171139 - in reply to #171135) Subject: RE: Do I need a CDL?
Expert
Posts: 2953 Location: North Carolina
PaulChristenson - 2018-01-16 10:35 PM
hosspuller - 2018-01-15 4:03 AM Careful ... We're speaking about two different things. A license is classed and then there is CDL (Commercial) One has to have the proper class license for the vehicle size / weight. If in commercial service then a CDL is also required. Example: In North Carolina... Class A license cost $5 per year. A Commercial Class A license costs $20 per year.
Many stated do NOT have classed licenses...but use the CDL for those specific needs
Which states do NOT have classed non-commercial licenses ?
The Feds are pushing all the states toward a standard license system because of the interstate highway system.
Posted 2018-01-17 12:44 PM (#171141 - in reply to #171139) Subject: RE: Do I need a CDL?
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 379 Location: Missouri
Which states do NOT have classed non-commercial licenses ? The Feds are pushing all the states toward a standard license system because of the interstate highway system.
Missouri is one that does not have a non-commercial drivers license for heavier weights. Class F license covers it all if you are non-commercial. Ya, with this NEW interstate highway thing I can see the feds wanting standard licensing systems.
Posted 2018-01-29 4:18 PM (#171217 - in reply to #171079) Subject: RE: Do I need a CDL?
Veteran
Posts: 145 Location: Harrisburg, OR
From the phone calls I've been receiving, the main concern is that now they're enforcing the commercial part of the licensing. Anyone competing in events that "pay" as little as a ribbon depending on the officer can be considered in furtherance of commercial enterprise. Unfortunately the old standby of "I'm heading trail riding" does not work because the officer will google your name and see if any results pop up. There has also been instances of officers sitting outside of events checking each rigs licensing. I have spoken with multiple agencies in different states including the Feds and the answers vary greatly. For example, technically anyone driving a newer Dodge dually is already over the 26,001 GVWR regardless of whether they are pulling a trailer or not. If the officer thinks you're driving it for commercial purposes he can site you for not having a CDL.
Posted 2018-02-01 8:31 AM (#171229 - in reply to #171079) Subject: RE: Do I need a CDL?
Location: Central Arkansas
I hope all the horse related organizations band together to get the law rewritten for the recreational horse owner. I personally feel that the weight placard on the side of the trailer should not be the deciding factor. It should be the actually weight! How many people here actually routinely load their horse trailer to capacity? I usually haul one horse. My trailer curb weigh is only 7500# but since I prefer to have much bigger 8K axles for safety, it has a placard capacity rating on 18.5K! One horse and the stuff needed for one horse. No LQ. That trailer is under 10K# every single time I haul my horse. I would estimate that less than 10% of all horse trailer owners load their trailers to capacity.
The weight laws are written for an industry that makes money all day, everyday. And, makes more money running loaded to capacity. We need laws written specifically for the horse owner that will never load their trailer to capacity. How many of you actually make money with your horse or trailer?
My car has a speedometer that goes up to 140mph. If I am doing 40mph in 30mph zone, they aren't going to ticket me because of what speed my car is capable of, they are going to ticket me for actual speed. Same difference. The common sense point to be made here is.....Weigh me, prove to me that I deserve a ticket for being overweight and I will gladly pay it.
Another thing to also look into, would be the claiming of vehicles on your taxes. I own a layup and quarrantine facility. I don't haul anyones horse, they bring them in and they pick them up. Since my dually also has to haul feed, bedding and supplies, it is set up as 50% personal & 50% business. Obviously, if I am hauling my trailer with my one horse to go ride, I am NOT using it for business at that time. Here is another GRAY area that needs definement.
Do I need a CDL?
I'd always thought the the only time a person needed a CDL for hauling horses (non commercial) is if the total weight was over 26K lbs. I'm near that but never over. 
