Posted 2016-04-26 4:51 PM (#166911 - in reply to #136202) Subject: RE: CDL Requirements for Hauling your horses.
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 402 Location: Valentine, NE
Does anyone know if reciprocity is in effect? I am not having much luck finding out. My point is that, if my state of license does not require CDL, does all/any of the other states go by my licensing state?Thanks.
Posted 2016-04-26 8:48 PM (#166917 - in reply to #166911) Subject: RE: CDL Requirements for Hauling your horses.
Expert
Posts: 3853 Location: Vermont
Originally written by Spin Doctor on 2016-04-26 7:51 PM
Does anyone know if reciprocity is in effect? I am not having much luck finding out. My point is that, if my state of license does not require CDL, does all/any of the other states go by my licensing state?Thanks.
If one state says you are commercial there is no reciprocity at that point, only a court case attempting to prove you aren't...because you are now under the federal CDL umbrella and the FMCSA
Posted 2016-04-27 7:10 AM (#166918 - in reply to #136202) Subject: RE: CDL Requirements for Hauling your horses.
Expert
Posts: 1989 Location: South Central OK
Agreed, if your state says no CDL...Oklahoma has that the power unit must be over 26,001 GVWR and the trailer 10,000 GVWR to be CDL for farmers, then in OK I'm not required to have a CDL but when I cross a state line it's now what the Federal regulations state which makes my F350 and gooseneck trailer require a class A CDL. I have heard rumors that you can take your driving test in your own truck/trailer as long as it classifies, I'm not sure if anyone will agree that my rig classifies like a semi!
Posted 2016-04-27 7:16 PM (#166926 - in reply to #136202) Subject: RE: CDL Requirements for Hauling your horses.
Expert
Posts: 1989 Location: South Central OK
My luck, we had someone in our office today that is an area inspector for just these things! I was told that my farm tags are good ANYWHERE I'm doing farm business, period end of sentence. Also got good news that I don't need a CDL for my 350 dually (GCVWR over 33,000) when it's towing my new trailer (GVWR over 14,000.) I asked about traveling out of state and will be calling me back after a phone call to the Feds and Kansas DOT. (I asked about Kansas specifically.) I'm hoping to hear some good news in a day or two, fingers crossed!
Posted 2016-04-27 7:50 PM (#166929 - in reply to #166917) Subject: RE: CDL Requirements for Hauling your horses.
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 379 Location: Missouri
Originally written by PaulChristenson on 2016-04-26 8:48 PM
Originally written by Spin Doctor on 2016-04-26 7:51 PM
Does anyone know if reciprocity is in effect? I am not having much luck finding out. My point is that, if my state of license does not require CDL, does all/any of the other states go by my licensing state?Thanks.
If one state says you are commercial there is no reciprocity at that point, only a court case attempting to prove you aren't...because you are now under the federal CDL umbrella and the FMCSA
And the FMCSA answer to that is provided on their website.
Question 21: Does the exemption in §390.3(f)(3) for the "occasional transportation of personal property by individuals not for compensation nor in the furtherance of a commercial enterprise" apply to persons who occasionally use CMVs to transport cars, boats, horses, etc., to races, tournaments, shows or similar events, even if prize money is offered at these events?
Guidance: The exemption would apply to this kind of transportation, provided: (1) The underlying activities are not undertaken for profit, i.e., (a) prize money is declared as ordinary income for tax purposes, and (b) the cost of the underlying activities is not deducted as a business expense for tax purposes; and, where relevant; (2) corporate sponsorship is not involved. Drivers must confer with their State of licensure to determine the licensing provisions to which they are subject.
Posted 2016-04-28 1:55 AM (#166934 - in reply to #166929) Subject: RE: CDL Requirements for Hauling your horses.
Expert
Posts: 3853 Location: Vermont
Originally written by hornet on 2016-04-27 10:50 PM
Originally written by PaulChristenson on 2016-04-26 8:48 PM
Originally written by Spin Doctor on 2016-04-26 7:51 PM
Does anyone know if reciprocity is in effect? I am not having much luck finding out. My point is that, if my state of license does not require CDL, does all/any of the other states go by my licensing state?Thanks.
If one state says you are commercial there is no reciprocity at that point, only a court case attempting to prove you aren't...because you are now under the federal CDL umbrella and the FMCSA
And the FMCSA answer to that is provided on their website.
Question 21: Does the exemption in §390.3(f)(3) for the "occasional transportation of personal property by individuals not for compensation nor in the furtherance of a commercial enterprise" apply to persons who occasionally use CMVs to transport cars, boats, horses, etc., to races, tournaments, shows or similar events, even if prize money is offered at these events?
Guidance: The exemption would apply to this kind of transportation, provided: (1) The underlying activities are not undertaken for profit, i.e., (a) prize money is declared as ordinary income for tax purposes, and (b) the cost of the underlying activities is not deducted as a business expense for tax purposes; and, where relevant; (2) corporate sponsorship is not involved. Drivers must confer with their State of licensure to determine the licensing provisions to which they are subject.
Cool...STATE OF OKLAHOMA DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY added this to page 6 of their Information for Farmers and Ranchers https://www.dps.state.ok.us/ohp/SFarm.pdf So Question 21 is starting to circulate...
Posted 2016-04-29 9:57 AM (#166948 - in reply to #136202) Subject: RE: CDL Requirements for Hauling your horses.
Regular
Posts: 67 Location: Everton, Arkansas
I have a class A CDL in Texas....I have a 'P' restriction...with the 'P' restriction I DO NOT have to have a DOT medical card or maintain a log book, but I can ONLY transport my own personal property (horses, hay, tractors, etc...)
Posted 2016-04-29 12:57 PM (#166949 - in reply to #166948) Subject: RE: CDL Requirements for Hauling your horses.
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 379 Location: Missouri
Well that may be for Texas, but a lot of states don't have a "Non-Commercial" CDL. MO is one of them, I can not get a CDL for personal use only, if I had a MO CDL, I would have to follow all the requirements that go with it. Which means health inspections, log books, travel time restrictions, ect.
Posted 2016-10-28 5:56 PM (#168778 - in reply to #136202) Subject: RE: CDL Requirements for Hauling your horses.
Elite Veteran
Posts: 690 Location: missouri
If you have a class 5-7 truck ( Sportchassis/ FL-60..etc) you can register it as an RV. Not a bad idea to have a Class A or B CDL... check state laws and insurance and taxes... it is not fun getting insurance the first time around.
Posted 2016-10-29 7:34 AM (#168785 - in reply to #136202) Subject: RE: CDL Requirements for Hauling your horses.
Veteran
Posts: 233 Location: Pataskala, Ohio
This is a nightmare! As best as I can tell in Ohio (my location) because my trailer can weigh more than 10,000 lbs I need a CDL. (I am a medically retired big city police officer so I never did this stuff but have heard about it). I cannot find any relief from the CDL mandate. I don't think I will ever be stopped in a 2500HD with a 4 horse 10ft short wall. But rules are rules. So...
HAS ANYONE BEEN STOPPED WHILE PULLING A LQ TRAILER AND NEEDED A CDL?
ANY AT FAULT TRAFFIC CRASHES AND INSURANCE ISSUES ARISEN FOR NOT HAVING A CDL?
Because of my meds I cannot get a CDL. I don't know what we will do if this becomes an issue.
Posted 2016-10-29 8:56 AM (#168786 - in reply to #168785) Subject: RE: CDL Requirements for Hauling your horses.
For what it is worth, having lived with this for 20+ years,
A) There have been threads here in the past where LQ drivers have been stopped and cited for improper license. There was one in NC discussed as I recall. In our area GA law enforcement is known to add truck & trailer GVWR together to see if it is >26,000#.
B) RVs are exempt from all CDL requirements. This is due to lobbying from AARP over the years. In certain states, you can license your trailer as an RV and get around it. Check with your DMV to see if it is possible for you. In Tenn, if it has "sleeping quarters", it is considered an RV. We have 2 different kinds of tags- one for semi-trailers which are defined as those that transfer weight to the towing vehicle, and another one for travel trailers. The travel trailer tag costs more, but if it clears you from license issues may be worth it.
C) In a DOT training session, the officer said the RV exemption won't apply if it is used for business. As in if you depreciate it on your farm tax schedule F, it is a business and no longer a hobby.
Posted 2016-10-30 7:41 PM (#168793 - in reply to #168786) Subject: RE: CDL Requirements for Hauling your horses.
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 379 Location: Missouri
RTsmith - 2016-10-29 8:56 AM For what it is worth, having lived with this for 20+ years, A) There have been threads here in the past where LQ drivers have been stopped and cited for improper license. There was one in NC discussed as I recall. In our area GA law enforcement is known to add truck & trailer GVWR together to see if it is >26,000#. B) RVs are exempt from all CDL requirements. This is due to lobbying from AARP over the years. In certain states, you can license your trailer as an RV and get around it. Check with your DMV to see if it is possible for you. In Tenn, if it has "sleeping quarters", it is considered an RV. We have 2 different kinds of tags- one for semi-trailers which are defined as those that transfer weight to the towing vehicle, and another one for travel trailers. The travel trailer tag costs more, but if it clears you from license issues may be worth it. C) In a DOT training session, the officer said the RV exemption won't apply if it is used for business. As in if you depreciate it on your farm tax schedule F, it is a business and no longer a hobby. RTSmith
Just came from a camp ride this weekend and noticed all the farm names on the side of peoples trailers. Right there will get you into a CDL violation because you are saying your trailer is a commercial buisness. No commercial = no CDL.
Posted 2016-11-06 7:40 AM (#168842 - in reply to #136202) Subject: RE: CDL Requirements for Hauling your horses.
Veteran
Posts: 197 Location: AZ
Thank heavens AZ does not do business like this...no cdl unless you are hauling for $$...and all they care about are tags on your 1 ton...commercial tags only for weight...nothing to do with driver...we have commercial tags for 8k...all based on pricing...
<-----Profile pic is our 'new to us' LQ....11k...no commercial license needed AND we have permanent registration...
Posted 2016-11-08 4:47 PM (#168854 - in reply to #136202) Subject: RE: CDL Requirements for Hauling your horses.
Member
Posts: 24
In Ca its really easy, non commercial cdl required if:
5th wheel travel trailer weighing over 15,000 pounds
If the vehicle is controlled by a farmer, not used for commerce, you have a 150 mile radius from their farm.
our living quarters has dual 8K pound capacity axles. But rated at 15K pounds on info plate. Most enforcement already know, a recrational vehicle with less than 15K does not require any type of cdl and will not check unless quota for the month is low.
If I'm passing from state to state to travel, I do not see how I would need to apply for a license in each state, as I'm only traveling, and not driving for compensation. I can only assume I would be bound to the laws in which I reside in.
Posted 2016-11-10 9:39 PM (#168857 - in reply to #168854) Subject: RE: CDL Requirements for Hauling your horses.
Veteran
Posts: 183 Location: riverside ca
peter, if you refer to page 3 of the CA handbook you can see that California allows you to drive a trailer with a gvwr of up to 10,000 anything over that you need a cdl unless you are driving a 5th wheel trailer, then you can have a trailer of up to 15,000 GVWR. not a gooseneck mind you, so you are actually do need a class A to pull you trailer.
I know 2 people who have been sited for this in Santa Barbra, so i would stay away from there.
Posted 2016-11-11 4:36 AM (#168858 - in reply to #168857) Subject: RE: CDL Requirements for Hauling your horses.
Member
Posts: 24
HOUSE - 2016-11-10 9:39 PM
peter, if you refer to page 3 of the CA handbook you can see that California allows you to drive a trailer with a gvwr of up to 10,000 anything over that you need a cdl unless you are driving a 5th wheel trailer, then you can have a trailer of up to 15,000 GVWR. not a gooseneck mind you, so you are actually do need a class A to pull you trailer.
I know 2 people who have been sited for this in Santa Barbra, so i would stay away from there.
Interesting, I did notice the 10k bumper pull and the 15K fifth wheel, I thought the gooseneck would be equivalent to the fifth wheel, since it mounts onto the chassis and not the bumper.
Just curious , did the cited parties go through the scales, or did they get pulled over?
The only way to rancho oso is through SB, I guess it's going to have to wait.
Posted 2016-11-11 7:13 AM (#168859 - in reply to #136202) Subject: RE: CDL Requirements for Hauling your horses.
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 448 Location: Los Angeles, Ca.
In California, a LQ horse trailer is not considered a recreational vehicle, it is considered a "carrier" The original and main purpose is to carry horses. Addition of LQ does not change its status.Thus, the RV exemption does not apply.
Even if it did, an endorsement requiring a simple written test is required for trailers over 10k not to exceed 15k. Over 15k requires at least a class A non-commercial license.However, is is rare for drivers of LQ horse trailers UNDER 15k to be cited for improper license.
Posted 2016-11-11 9:12 AM (#168860 - in reply to #136202) Subject: RE: CDL Requirements for Hauling your horses.
Location: Texas
I'm curious to know if anyone, anywhere, has been pulled over just to have their liscense checked, or were they pulled over for some other violation first? I travel a lot, through a lot of states, and have never been pulled over just to make sure I have the proper drivers liscense, and I don't know of any of my buddies that have either. My point is, if you don't give them a reason to pull you over you probably aren't going to have a problem. I'm sure there are the Barnie Fifes out there, but most of the cops aren't looking to pick on horse people. I haul a 20K trailer with a 26K truck and don't even get a glance from the passing cops.
Posted 2016-11-12 2:02 AM (#168861 - in reply to #168859) Subject: RE: CDL Requirements for Hauling your horses.
Member
Posts: 24
beeoerdog - 2016-11-11 7:13 AM
In California, a LQ horse trailer is not considered a recreational vehicle, it is considered a "carrier" The original and main purpose is to carry horses. Addition of LQ does not change its status.Thus, the RV exemption does not apply.
Even if it did, an endorsement requiring a simple written test is required for trailers over 10k not to exceed 15k. Over 15k requires at least a class A non-commercial license.However, is is rare for drivers of LQ horse trailers UNDER 15k to be cited for improper license.
A carrier is a trailer designed to carry a specific load on its own structure, drawn by a motor vehicle, and so constructed that no part of its weight rests upon any other vehicle.
Example: boat trailer, horse trailer, car carrier, etc
Prior to the horse trailer I had a Toy hauler(40ft), primarily used to haul motorized toys or just about anything,and it was considered a motor coach. Even though its main purpose was to haul other stuff, it was also built for human occupancy and self contained.
Wouldn't the LQ trailer be the equivalent to a toyhauler(trailer coach), since the "carrier" doesn't specify it is designed for human habitation or occupancy, but rather just a horse trailer(no LQ)?
CCH-CVC §635
A "trailer coach" is a vehicle, other than a motor vehicle, designed for human habitation or human occupancy for industrial, professional, or commercial purposes, for carrying property on its own structure, and for being drawn by a motor vehicle. Vehicle Code Section 635.
Furthermore,more leniency went into affect with MCP #'s:
Motor trucks or two-axle truck tractors, with a GVWR of less than 26,001 pounds, when operated singly, or when used to tow a camp or utility trailer, a TRAILER COACH, a fifth-wheel travel trailer, or a trailer designed to transport a watercraft, and is never operated commercially. (This provision becomes operative on January 1, 2016.) Although it has nothing to do with cdl, I think they're beginning to understand these non commercial trailers are just heavy. https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv/detail/vehindustry/mcp/mcpfaq/!ut/...
Posted 2016-11-12 8:43 AM (#168862 - in reply to #136202) Subject: RE: CDL Requirements for Hauling your horses.
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 448 Location: Los Angeles, Ca.
14.005 Trailer Definitions
NOTE: The addition of living quarters to a trailer does not permanently alter that vehicle for human habitation. The living quarters are secondary or incidental to ... https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv/?1dmy&urile=wcm...
Maybe if the whole trailer is Living Quarters then the Recreational Vehicle definitions applies
Posted 2016-11-13 8:07 PM (#168864 - in reply to #168862) Subject: RE: CDL Requirements for Hauling your horses.
Member
Posts: 24
beeoerdog - 2016-11-12 8:43 AM
14.005 Trailer Definitions
NOTE: The addition of living quarters to a trailer does not permanently alter that vehicle for human habitation. The living quarters are secondary or incidental to ... https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv/?1dmy&urile=wcm...
Maybe if the whole trailer is Living Quarters then the Recreational Vehicle definitions applies
Just a reminder, I am also trying to make sense out of most of this stuff, and would love some clarification on all these topics, and so far have been learning quite a bit. I feel the more we interact with everyone and discuss these with actual facts we may get to the bottom of everything.
I'd like to just point out, that in your previous post, you said, All LQ are "Carriers". But your last post from the trailer definitions, your notation about adding a LQ's is just under the section defined as "Utility Trailers".
The trailer definitions are explained in order, with notations to each class. So now we have trailer coaches, carriers and utility trailers. Maybe the type can be found in the pink slips?
At least the CDL is listed clearly by weights, unless the gooseneck is really is not a considered a fifth wheel device?
CDL Requirements for Hauling your horses.
