Posted 2015-05-10 9:12 PM (#163379) Subject: New trailer....won't stop!
Member
Posts: 9
Location: Oregon Coast
Greetings, I have just purchased my first LQ trailer, a 2015 Bison 8417. It's 44ft long and 20K heavy. I pull it with a built Ram 3500 DRW and everything is great except braking is poor, very poor in my opinion. Not towing something this large am I expecting too much from electric brakes?I have the installed Ram brake controller and accused it of not working so I replaced it with a Tekinosha Prodigey. Then I tested voltage, with the box 10/10 I see 12V from the junction box all the way to the drums, and tested the connections at the drums also. I hear a hum but feel no effective effort, so assuming they needed adjusted I took it to the local shop, wheel by wheel, adjusted the brakes till they slightly dragged, only making a half spin or less by hand.I quickly noticed leaving that at low speed the brakes would throw me through the windshield and I was happy. Once at speed again, 55 or so, and the controller maxed at 10 I feel a small grab and no true stopping power even with the slide level commanding full brakes.Am I expecting too much for such a heavy trailer, or does common sense say at full power and full slide lever this thing should lock up like any trailer does???? I am so nervous of the brakes I can't imagine how sketchy it would be with 4 horses loaded!What to do, I am clueless. Wires are right, voltage is there, new controller installed, and brakes adjusted. Should I adjust them even tighter, or is this the welcome to big goose necks, and rely more on the trucks brakes?Thank you,Mike
Posted 2015-05-11 6:05 AM (#163383 - in reply to #163379) Subject: RE: New trailer....won't stop!
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 350 Location: Penrose, Colorado
I do not think your brakes are adjusted right, they should do a lot more than that but this being said our trailer is as big as yours and a little heavier and our one ton does not stop it like you would think either so we usually pull it with our 5500 and there is no comparison as to how it stops, to many folks out there have to much trailer for there truck to stop it in an emergency.Do not blame the trailer mfg if there is another problem as about all parts come from different vendors, I would talk to the dealer that you bought it from..
Posted 2015-05-11 8:57 AM (#163384 - in reply to #163379) Subject: RE: New trailer....won't stop!
Elite Veteran
Posts: 690 Location: missouri
You need an Fl-60 or International class 6-7 truck for a rig this size... never believe the trailer salesman who tells you a one ton is "plenty of truck". Of course, it depends on where you are pulling... if you are on flat landyou may be OK. Good luck. (We learned the hard way.
Posted 2015-05-11 9:12 AM (#163385 - in reply to #163379) Subject: RE: New trailer....won't stop!
Member
Posts: 9
Location: Oregon Coast
Thanks everyone, I had a feeling I was pushing my truck too far. Dealer has been amazing helping me dial her in, so I figured the last thing left is the truck. Time to drive safe and save for a sport chassis.ThnxMike
Posted 2015-05-11 11:19 AM (#163387 - in reply to #163379) Subject: RE: New trailer....won't stop!
Expert
Posts: 5870 Location: western PA
If your brakes are adjusted so they drag and constantly contact the drums, they will become unresponsive at highway speeds. When drum brakes get hot, much of their braking affect is lost. The drums should spin freely when the brakes aren't selected. New brake shoes take a while to fully seat within the drums; their initial actions may be less than anticipated. If they are allowed to seat after several hundred miles, and then readjusted, the second efforts usually will be better. Using new brakes hard can cause the linings to glaze, which will reduce their braking efforts. They should be broken in under less stressful conditions. You have a large, heavy trailer. It will take the best efforts of the truck's and trailer's brakes to haul the rig down from speed.
Posted 2015-05-11 11:21 AM (#163388 - in reply to #163379) Subject: RE: New trailer....won't stop!
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 350 Location: Penrose, Colorado
you really do not need a sport chassis, a 450-550 Ford or a Dodge 5500 has the same tires and brakes as the other, we have had both and the Dodge or Ford is user friendly as a daily driver the sport chassis is not as to its overall size. They all will weigh about the same with a flat bed on them.
Posted 2015-05-11 11:33 AM (#163391 - in reply to #163387) Subject: RE: New trailer....won't stop!
Member
Posts: 9
Location: Oregon Coast
Good info! The trailer was built near Kansas I believe and hauled to Oregon coast. Figure the intial seat occurred then, so the shop said adjust with a little drag. Think back them off a smidge so they spin free in the air? I also think it's time to make sure the 3500 brakes are solid also, pushing 97,000 miles and 30K on current brakes
Posted 2015-05-11 2:57 PM (#163398 - in reply to #163379) Subject: RE: New trailer....won't stop!
Member
Posts: 9
Location: Oregon Coast
Yes, I followed the timelines listed on the goose neck coupling, my concern is am I expecting too much from these electric brakes at this weight or size, or am I missing something. I have not owned a trailer of this size before.ThnxMike
Posted 2015-05-11 5:38 PM (#163399 - in reply to #163379) Subject: RE: New trailer....won't stop!
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 350 Location: Penrose, Colorado
some of what you are asking is hard to say, a trailer that heavy should have at least 8000# axle or larger and 17.5 wheels all of this will give bigger brakes and more tire surface area for stopping than with 7000# and 16 inch wheels with this said a one ton truck is going to be very maxed out in the brake dept. I can pull our trailer with a 1 ton but I use our 5500 Dodge 99% of the time.
Posted 2015-05-11 6:07 PM (#163400 - in reply to #163379) Subject: RE: New trailer....won't stop!
Member
Posts: 9
Location: Oregon Coast
That it does, 8,500 Dexter on 17.5 tires. I'm not expecting lock up stop in 500 ft power, but I feel like the trailer makes about 10% effort in stoping. I have hauled a lot of things and you always feel the trailer taking control but with this, no. Why would the truck matter much, it's rated to tow 30K, I would expect the trailer to carry atleast half the braking effort??????
Posted 2015-05-11 6:12 PM (#163401 - in reply to #163379) Subject: RE: New trailer....won't stop!
Member
Posts: 9
Location: Oregon Coast
And this empty by the way, add 4 horses??? The brakes HAVE to do more, that's my worry. Thanks for the input I imagine each trailer can be different, calling Bison tom to hear their input. Those brakes have to be rated to handle the load regardless of the truck or the brake away connection would be point less? If max is 12V, and I see 12V, full power should act no different than the brake away???
Posted 2015-05-11 6:40 PM (#163402 - in reply to #163379) Subject: RE: New trailer....won't stop!
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 350 Location: Penrose, Colorado
the brand of Trailer has nothing to do with it, something is wrong then with the truck or trailer brakes or a combo of both, you should have more than you are describing but the larger brakes on a bigger truck will not get as hot as quick and has alot more suface area than on a 1 ton.
Posted 2015-05-13 1:14 PM (#163416 - in reply to #163379) Subject: RE: New trailer....won't stop!
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 330 Location: northeast Texas
What is the biggest, heaviest thing you have pulled? It is possible that there is nothing wrong, and you are just expecting something really heavy to shut down quicker than it can. I pull a 3 horse with 10 ft short wall LQ, with a 2007 Dodge 1 ton DRW. Ran it over the CAT scales a few years ago, almost, but not completely, loaded and grossed 21,600. The GCVWR on my truck is 23,000. I know what my truck feels like pulling that much weight, with live moving horses. You are close to that just empty. I would say really you need a bigger truck. You cant just depend on trailer brakes, because sometimes they fail. I was hauling about 500 miles once. Left after work to drive about 200 miles and my wires under the trailer got torn loose at an overnight stop and next morning I left out and discovered I had no trailer brakes. I have an exhaust brake and looked way ahead and was extra careful with stopping distance until I could find a shop open and find out what was wrong. You should have a big enough tow vehicle to handle the rig if it has too. Good luck.
Posted 2015-05-14 4:13 PM (#163420 - in reply to #163379) Subject: RE: New trailer....won't stop!
Member
Posts: 9
Location: Oregon Coast
I knew I was not crazy!!! Thanks the world over 10 times to Thad and especially Chris at Akins Trailers! Problem solved, not the truck, not the controller but a few bad grease seals in the hub soaked the drums and the pads! A good cleaning and new seals she does what I expected! The trailers dang near hops at 10 power and goes 60-30 in 4secs! I'm now driving at 5 setting and feel in control! Thanks again for ever ones input, never had a doubt with Thad and the crew, still has my back from day one!!That's customer service!
Posted 2015-05-15 9:55 AM (#163422 - in reply to #163379) Subject: RE: New trailer....won't stop!
Expert
Posts: 5870 Location: western PA
Brand new trailer, brand new seals and parts. Somebody's installation of them effected a poor job. When you can purchase a house for the cost of some trailers, you should be able to expect some care and professionalism in their construction. Sadly their purchase price is not indicative of their quality.
Posted 2015-05-15 3:01 PM (#163423 - in reply to #163379) Subject: RE: New trailer....won't stop!
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 402 Location: Valentine, NE
Just fyi, that sometimes, an over greasing thru the spindles for the bearings will force the seals out and cause these conditions. Have seen it on like equipment and it is real easy to do.
Glad you have found it and have the dealer support.
Posted 2015-06-02 8:32 PM (#163631 - in reply to #163379) Subject: RE: New trailer....won't stop!
Member
Posts: 30 Location: Big Prairie, Ohio
Glad to read the cause of your brake issue was found.We have two trailers- an older Bee 2HSL-BP and a newer Trails West 3H SL-813SO- GN. Axles for each are different manufacturers. The Bee axles require the wheel be off the ground and turned by hand while greasing. The axles in the Trails West do not require being off the ground in order to be lubed. Be sure to read owners manual as to what axles are on your trailer.Hope this helps others who read this post.
New trailer....won't stop!
