|
|
Member
Posts: 12
Location: Cassatt, SC | I have been working with horses since 1964. My horses range in ages of 2 years old, 5 years old, 15 years old, 20 years old and up to 25 years old. In the past 5 years, hay producers in my area have turned to using poultry litter on their hay field as fertilizer because of costs. The square bale hay looks green and great, but my horses just sniff it and walk away. They waste it. They won't eat it. Each year, I have to return the hay and buy hay that was not produced with poultry litter. Thank goodness, most hay producers are being honest when I ask if they used poultry litter in the production of their hay. Last year, when I took 100 bales home from a hay producer that I had bought from previously that season, my horses would not eat the hay. I called the hay producer. He confirmed that he had distributed poultry litter in the production of that hay. When he looked in his notes and realized that I had requested non-poultry litter fertilized hay from the start, he came to our place and removed the 100 bales of poultry litter fertilized hay and replaced it with hay that did NOT get produced with poultry litter. My horses immediately started eating the hay that did NOT have poultry litter used in the production of it. So, here is my question. Has anyone experienced this problem with their horses? If so, what did you do? This has happened to me with 4 separate hay producers. I cannot find anything on the internet that explains this problem. I understand that it is a fairly new process, but surely, someone is recognizing the problem besides me!!! |
|
| |
|
 Expert
Posts: 2453
  
Location: Northern Utah | Interesting. Are you finding any chicken litter in the baled hay? Or has it all disolved into the soil?
Edited by Painted Horse 2012-12-23 1:50 PM
|
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 12
Location: Cassatt, SC | If you call feathers, chicken litter, then yes, I am finding feathers in the bales of hay. I haven't looked for actual litter. I was wondering if the hay producer was using 'fresh' litter, then maybe it had a lingering smell. I can't get the last hay producer to admit to anything. Transparency can help recover the reason and then a possible solution. |
|
| |
|
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 376
Location: Missouri | Not at all uncommon. A lot of horses don't like hog manure fertilized hay either.
Not new at all. A lot of farmers use manure from chickens and hogs when the price of commercial fertilizer get high. In years past it was much more common.
Guess what, if that's all they have to eat for a few days, they get over it, and eat it just fine.
Edited by bbsmfg3 2012-12-23 6:44 PM
|
|
| |
|
Elite Veteran
Posts: 792
Location: East Tennessee, USA, Planet Earth | Be careful feeding this hay to your horses. Chickens spread salmonella. I myself, would never feed my horses this type of hay. |
|
| |
|
 Elite Veteran
Posts: 656
Location: Rayne, LA | What are we voting for? |
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 12
Location: Cassatt, SC | Bob, Thank you for your reply. Have you had the experience with horses not eating their hay?...and you continued to only give them that hay AND they started eating it??? If so, what problems did you observe? Any health issues? From my experience, this behavior of not eating their hay is not natural. I have been feeding my groups of horses for 48 years. This issue with my horses not eating the hay given them has only occurred since the poultry litter has been used as fertilizer, which has been in the last 5 years. I understand the farmers' need to keep down costs, but for the end result to be that the product not be used (wasted), that seems to defeat the purpose of growing the hay. I wonder what problems have occurred that have not been registered by some agency....where would one report this anyway? It is just not natural for my horses to refuse hay. This is a BIG problem for me. My experience is that the hay producers really don't want to hear this. Yet, to be honest, they need to know this. |
|
| |
|
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 376
Location: Missouri | Yes, I've had experience with hay fertilized with chicken, hog, and cattle manure. Sometime they eat it without a problems and other times, a couple of days of it alone, and they eat it just fine. The smell is usually the problem. If they get hungry, they will eat.
Chicken is very high in nitrogen and bad about burning if applied to heavy. It should be composted for awhile before applying. The problems associated with e coli, etc, are usually not there if the application doesn't burn up the hay crop. Seldom do they apply any of these close to harvest time, which gives mother nature plenty of time to dispose of e coli, etc. Sun and rain, will do an excellent job of decomposing.
It was used a lot around here, more so, a few years back, and never heard of any problems feeding the hay to horses. When the farmers used horses for tilling it was used extensively for horse hay. |
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 20
Location: Woodland, Wa | I wouldn't feed it to my horses for the same reason IcePrincess mentioned. You might want to cal your vet or the closest equine hosp and run the question/problem by them. |
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 12
Location: Cassatt, SC | I sent a sample about a month ago to the Clemson Extension Service and they reported back that the sample was good quality hay. They could not give me a reason for why the horses refused to eat it. They indicated that it was actually higher in Crude protein (Nitrogen) than they would have expected. Potassium and Phosphorus were also higher than average in the sample of this hay. They felt that the hay was of good nutritional quality. They did note that the NDF was higher than 65, which is the point at where most horses may refuse to eat hays, and that NDF of higher than 65 indicates more maturity at harvest time. We had a wet summer. Hay harvests were delayed a lot around here. |
|
| |
|
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 376
Location: Missouri | "which is the point at where most horses may refuse to eat hays
They will eat snow balls if they don't have anything else. They will not go hungry. The NDF along with the smell is probably the reason they didn't take to it right away. Years ago we feed ground straw when there was nothing else. They didn't like that either, but they didn't loose weight on it either. |
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 18
Location: concord nc | My hay guy fertilizes with chicken manure and I find feathers in some of the bales. The horses eat the hay without any problem. He has great hay no weeds etc. Maybe if you bought the fall cutting it would be better, since most of the fertilizing was done earlier in the year
Edited by 3ponies 2012-12-29 8:32 AM
|
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 12
Location: Cassatt, SC | Thank you for your input. I bought these 220 bales out of the field on September 14, 2012.... I believe that was their last cutting on that field. If I could only find out WHY this is now occurring. I have been feeding coastal bermuda hay to my horses for 48 years and it has only been in the last 5 years that I have had ANY problems with my horses eating their coastal bermuda hay... AND those times where the horses wouldn't eat the hays, the common denominator has been the hay producer used poultry manure as fertilizer. Surely, there has to be a good explanation as to WHY my horses won't eat that hay!!! Thank you again for your input. |
|
| |
|
New User
Posts: 3
Location: Illinois | My vet's office swears and declares that horses can contract salmonella from poultry (they don't get it from wild bird droppings in the field because it is much less concentrated) so this is really bad that hay producers are doing this. What state are you in? I asked this question specifically because I raise ducks and was wondering about grazing the horses in the part of my yard where I move my wire pens around, and the answer was a resounding NO unless I want to go through the huge hassle and expense of treating horses for salmonella. |
|
| |
|
New User
Posts: 3
Location: Illinois | Originally written by IcePonyGoddess on 2012-12-23 8:13 PM
Be careful feeding this hay to your horses. Chickens spread salmonella. I myself, would never feed my horses this type of hay. Ditto. |
|
| |
|
New User
Posts: 3
Location: Illinois | Originally written by bbsmfg3 on 2012-12-27 4:10 PM
"which is the point at where most horses may refuse to eat hays They will eat snow balls if they don't have anything else. They will not go hungry. The NDF along with the smell is probably the reason they didn't take to it right away. Years ago we feed ground straw when there was nothing else. They didn't like that either, but they didn't loose weight on it either. Just because a horse will eat something does not mean it should be fed. |
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 12
Location: Cassatt, SC | South Carolina. I just wish that there was a central location of valid information on the use of poultry litter as fertilizer on hay production. As I have indicated, after over 48 years of feeding my horses coastal bermuda hay, it has only been in the last 5 years that my horses have ever refused to eat their bales of hay and it was Hay that had been fertilized with poultry litter in each case!! The hay producers are trying to control ever rising costs AND they seem to make ME WRONG for telling them that my horses won't eat their hay fertilized with poultry litter. Most have been very honest.... the last producer's wife has acted ugly toward me...like I was the cause of my concern!! That was why I contacted the Clemson Extension to analyze a sample of their hay. The results from Clemson was that it was good hay.... even slightly better in areas that they normally did not see. So, I am confused as to WHY my horses refuse this hay! I have over 200 bales of this harvested hay in my barn. What I have put out is still sitting on the ground wasting. They have eaten other harvested period hays. I just hope that I don't have any problems. If someone could research other sites for information on this subject, that would be great. Surely, someone is having this problem now besides me! |
|
| |
|
 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 385
Location: high desert, CA. | My chicken coops are right next to the horse stalls, so my horses are used to the odor of chickens. I also let the chickens loose in the turnouts and stalls to keep flies and other bugs down in summer. I am more afraid of using Bermuda hay!!! I have seen many horses colic badly on long Bermuda that was not chopped up! Since I feed Barley/Oat/wheat/Alfalfa hays, we don't have as much problem I guess out west.( We are in the high desert of California) |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 2953
Location: North Carolina | Some horses are picky eaters... If I put a pile of Alfalfa and a pile of prime Orchard grass that I grew, cut and baled...The alfalfa pile is licked clean before anyone touches the Orchard grass. Of course, I like ice cream more than carrots... choco chip cookies more than rye bread. |
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 12
Location: Cassatt, SC | I can appreciate picky horses. However, my horses range in age of 2 years, 5 years, 15 years, 20 years & 25 years old. NONE will eat this poultry litter fertilized hay. I have been using it as bedding for their stalls. I have been feeding them alfalfa pellets and hydration hay blocks to replace the fact that they won't eat the coastal Bermuda hay. It makes me upset that hay producers are not interested in the final product... of course, cows will probably eat it. Otherwise, what is the purpose in producing hay that horses will not eat, just because they don't want to spend the money for traditional fertilizer??? |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 2953
Location: North Carolina | Originally written by Shadowboxer on 2013-03-28 6:47 PM
I can appreciate picky horses. However, my horses range in age of 2 years, 5 years, 15 years, 20 years & 25 years old. NONE will eat this poultry litter fertilized hay. I have been using it as bedding for their stalls. I have been feeding them alfalfa pellets and hydration hay blocks to replace the fact that they won't eat the coastal Bermuda hay. Alfalfa Pellets ! Who eats beans when cookies & cake are served!! I use alfalfa pellets to get medicine into the horses ! |
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 12
Location: Cassatt, SC | Let's see...you can go days of no eating with cold winter weather and allow weight to drop off and take a chance of horses getting pneumonia OR you can look for other methods of feeding your horses so that they DON'T have health issues. Did I say that I have had almost 50 years of feeding horses? Did I say that for almost 45 of those years, I fed coastal bermuda hay and it was being eaten? Did I say that the last 5 years have been my problem years with getting my horses to eat coastal bermuda hay AND THE COMMON DENOMINATOR WAS THAT THE HAY MY HORSES WOULD NOT EAT WAS FERTILIZED WITH TURKEY/POULTRY LITTER???? My horses have had Alfalfa pellets throughout their lives. That has NOT affected the hay that they ate. I don't understand why you are so insensitive. The Horses will NOT eat hay fertilized with Turkey/Poultry litter and the Hay Producers need to be honest about this. I am NOT the only person that has experienced this. I am sorry that chemical fertilizer has risen and hay producers are looking for alternatives to keep costs down. However, if the alternative is NOT producing edible hay, then WHY ARE THEY GROWING IT??? AFIA is interested in encouraging Congress to allow more acreage for producing corn instead of eliminating ethanol when there is a huge reservoir of oil under North Dakota/Canada which could be processed to reduce fuel costs and thereby fertilizer costs... Is anyone talking to AFIA and NGFA about this? I bet not... it is better to make me WRONG in my observations that to look at the real problem! |
|
| |
|
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 376
Location: Missouri | I have been feeding horses for quite a few more years than you, and have yet to see one go hungry, if there is food(hay) in front of them for several days. I've seen a few that would get into the second day before they'd eat what, they thought they did not like, put never longer.
How long did you let them go with only the poultry fertilized hay to eat?
If you really want to get them eating it quicker, spray it with some sugar water, with peppermint flavoring added to the water.
I really don't think your going to get anyone to change their practice. You can either get them to eat this or find another source.
If you really feel it is bad for them, your only choice, is to find another source. |
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 12
Location: Cassatt, SC | The first time that I offered the hay to them, it sat out in the pasture untouched for a week (and then onward) before I really started looking for alternatives. (I have to look at the time line on my pictures. I took pictures at different days a week(s) apart to show to the hay producer so he would understand that my horses would not eat his poultry/turkey litter manure fertilized hay.) It wasn't into the full winter concerns then. Yet, the pasture grass wasn't growing then either. My horses were losing weight after a week and I was very concerned. So I started the path of looking for alternatives to the 210 bales of turkey manure fertilized hay that I had bought and stored in our hay barn. What a waste! |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 2453
Location: Northern Utah | I don't know how much manure they are spreading on your hay field. But my horses don't really seem too worried about the smell of chickens. My chickens get a couple hours each day of free range. They climb all over the hay stack, sometimes even hiding eggs in the haystack. Periodically I clean out the chicken coop, I throw all the old straw and manure onto the same manure pile I use for the horses. It's in the corner of the horse corral. And leave it to my horses to wander over and see if they can find any grain as they snuffle through what I've thrown over the fence. I don't enjoy a spooked horse trying to jump out from under me when a wild turkey or pheasant blast off along the trail. Since I got the chickens and let them wander around in the horse corral, My horses have become much more immune to getting spooked by flying birds. |
|
| |
|
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 376
Location: Missouri | " sat out in the pasture untouched for a week"
Out in the pasture they were still getting other sources of forage, true, not enough to maintain them, but still getting it. And the forage they were getting was grass. Many horses will let hay, of any kind, go to waste if they have grass. Try placing them in a completely dry lot, for no more than 2 days. They'll be very unusual horses if they don't eat it, when that is all there is to eat. |
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 12
Location: Cassatt, SC | I appreciate your comment. However, this hay situation is UNCOMMON behavior in regards to my horses eating hay. I foxhunt... and have since I was 12 years old. I understand plenty about the concerns of a pasture. If I am saying that the horses won't eat turkey/poultry litter fertilized hay, then why is it so hard to recognize that the procedure is NOT one that should be used by Hay Producers. If I were an inexperienced person that didn't know much about horses, comments such as yours would be valid. I took into account all those factors. I analyzed everything. The common denominator over the 5 years when my horses would NOT eat hay was that the hay had been produced using turkey/poultry litter as fertilizer for it. Now, I would like hay producers to be honest that there is something WRONG in producing Hay for Horses using turkey/poultry litter as fertilizer. It is hurting ME financially and possibly my horses. If I couldn't afford to find another solution, my horses surely would have been hurt physically due to not even trying to eat the stuff. I ask you, are there certain foods that you will refuse to eat no matter what anyone does to disguise it? I have a husband that is that way... and he would rather starve than eat the stuff. I see that same behavior with my horses in regards to the turkey/poultry litter fertilized hay.
Edited by Shadowboxer 2013-04-02 5:54 AM
|
|
| |
|
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 376
Location: Missouri | Let's not forget, it was not that many years ago(before commercial fertilizers were available). Many, Many, very many, hay fields were fertilized with manures of all sorts. Never bothered any horses. It is not that they are not being honest, they are, there is nothing wrong with manure fertilized fields, we have spoiled our horses.
The first load of brome hay I purchased, went to waste when I put it out for them. They went for what grass was left. I put them in a dry lot and they cleaned it up within the first day. They still don't like it, but the eat it, so long as there is nothing else available. They prefer the timothy and alfalfa. Just like I prefer steak to cooked cabbage.
|
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 12
Location: Cassatt, SC | Do you really think that hay producers had access to loads of turkey/poultry litter for fertilizer BEFORE commercial fertilizer was introduced... for that matter, do you really think that hay producers had access to loads of ANY Manure to be used as fertilizer BEFORE commercial fertilizer was introduced? How would they had managed that? You see, the turkey/poultry litter situation is an extreme case. I am not sure that anyone is monitoring its affects. The commercial fertilizers have probably been tested over years to determine outcome. However, WHO is monitoring the turkey/poultry litter being used as fertilizer. PLEASE BE FAIR about this. This MAY be A REAL CONCERN. It has been my experience that Horses will NOT eat grass where they have manured on it... So, if they are particular about the turkey/poultry litter fertilized hay, I TAKE NOTICE. |
|
| |
|
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 376
Location: Missouri | "Do you really think that hay producers had access to loads of turkey/poultry litter for fertilizer BEFORE commercial fertilizer was introduced."
Heavens yes, and lots of it. My grandfather, raised chickens for egg production. He had 4 plus large barns that produced as much litter as any of the current day producers. And confine fed many, many hogs. All of the manure from these went to the fields, both for hay and for crops. They spread it all with horse drawn spreaders. They probably spread more tons per acre than any of the present day operations. |
|
| |
|
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 544
Location: Claxton, Ga. | I have used it before and my horses would eat it. The only issue is they would get the poops from time to time. I have since switched hay providers a long time ago. Lot's of folks in my area using it. One issue with using it constantly is it will cause an imbalance in nutrients. That's what will give them the poops. I have since steered clear of it. If your horses won't eat it, there must be something else wrong with it. |
|
| |
|
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 544
Location: Claxton, Ga. | Oh, almost forgot. Find you someone that is in the hay business that will take care of you. Not sell hay out from under you, uses fertilizer,etc. and stick with them. You may pay a little more for the hay but the lesser hassle will be worth it. I have found out that most hay farmers don't give a rats butt about you. The faster they can get it out of the barn and get paid, the happier they are. Those are the folks I don't mess with. I have hay 365 days a year. My hay provider only takes on new customers at the first of the hay season if he has an opening. When I first found him, I had to wait to find out if he could support my needs. Any funny business on your part and he is done with you. The price is not up for negotiations. It's kinda nice. |
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 12
Location: Cassatt, SC | Thank you for your advice. Since my horses won't eat the turkey/poultry fertilized hay that I bought this past fall, I have plenty to use as bedding in their stalls for a long time.
Yes, I have arranged to get a hay producer that will only sell me hay that has NOT used Turkey/Poultry litter as fertilizer. I thought that I had accomplished that year before last, but the hay producer that I was buying from then, decided to start using the Turkey/Poultry litter in ALL his fields. That is when I happened into this situation I was faced with this winter... uneatable hay. I was hoping to find an actual solution that would allow my horses to eat the hay that I had bought. But winter is over and they never would touch that hay. I had to rely on other alternatives to get them through the winter without any health problems, which is very important when supporting ages equines. I guess you are right. I need to NEVER buy hay that has been fertilized with Turkey/Poultry litter again. I HAD tried to avoid that, but it didn't work out this winter. So, was looking for a solution, if there actually was one. Thank you for responding. |
|
| |
Horses won't eat poultry litter fertilized hay.
