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Location: Decatur, Texas | This might be an old issue, but I am new here. I had a blow out and the tire manurfacture will not cover the tire. I went to just buy a new tire and the tire dealer told me I needed to install a higher rated tire on this trailer, but he would not install the tires on the wheel that I have. He told me the rating of the tires and wheels did not match and I would still have troubles down the road. What I have on the trailer now is a 16" G rated tire that shows 3500lbs. at 94psi and the steel wheels are 16" 8 lug that show a max rating of 370lbs. at 80psi! The tire dealer is telling me that the psi of the wheel should meet or exceed that of the tire! WHAT DO I DO? |
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Location: Rocky Mount N.C. | What kind of trailer are you pulling? What's the GVWR of your trailer? GAWR? What's your trailer weigh? How fast are you pulling in this heat? Are you running 235/85R16's? OR 17.5's http://www.goodyear.com/rv/tirecare/loadinflationtables.html http://www.goodyear.com/rv/products/g614rst.html Sounds to me that....You need a set rims rated at 3800# at 110 psi for the "G" rated/14 ply tires. 100 psi will give you a 3750# rating on the G614. The rim needs to be rated higher than the tire. |
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Location: Decatur, Texas | I have 235 85 16" tires, this trailer is a goosneck and the loaded axle weight is actualy almost 15-k lbs and the actual gross weight is right at 19-k lbs. The tire dealer told me to look into a 17.5" tire and wheel because of how heavy this trailer is, but I don't have the funds to pay that much to upgrade to something like that. The tire dealer told me the only other thing to do is find a wheel that has a higher psi rating and install a set of G rated tires that have are rated 3750 lbs at 100psi. But he would not install the tires on the wheels that I have at all! |
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Location: Decatur, Texas | I just looked at the link you posted and I think that is the tires this tire dealer in wanting to install, but what about the wheels? The info on the wheel shows a rating of 3750 lbs. but the psi is only 80#. This is the problem I guess, the dealer is telling me that if I install these tires and put a 100 or 110 psi in them that there is a chance the wheel would come apart! |
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Location: Rocky Mount N.C. | Originally written by c.will_09 on 2008-08-03 3:05 PM I just looked at the link you posted and I think that is the tires this tire dealer in wanting to install, but what about the wheels? The info on the wheel shows a rating of 3750 lbs. but the psi is only 80#. This is the problem I guess, the dealer is telling me that if I install these tires and put a 100 or 110 psi in them that there is a chance the wheel would come apart! BINGO!! You're going to have to get the heavier/high pressure wheels..... Move up to 17.5 with a rating of 4800# per wheel.... Or lighten your load. With 15K sitting on the axles alone.. I would be looking for some 17.5. You're not just carrying all that weight, your twisting on those tire sidewalls, like you're wringing out a towel!! What axles your axles rated at? 7000#, 8000#, 10000#, each. |
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Location: Decatur, Texas | I have 7000lbs axles on this trailer, that is what came on the trailer. I missed one of your questions, I pull this trailer at 65 or just under on the interstate and in town and back road usually 5 miles under the posted limit because of the weight and the amount of time it takes to stop this thing you never know what retard maybe coming out of a driveway or around the corner. Thanks, c.will |
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Location: Northern Utah | If you truely have 15k on the axles. then the two 7000 lb axles egual 14,000 and are not sufficient for your load. And four "G" tires barely make the 15,000lb. And they do need to be mounted on rims rated for 110psi. You tire dealer is telling you the truth, you need to upgrade Tires, Wheels, and probably axles. Have you actually weighed the trailer to see exactly how much it weighs when loaded with horses and all the stuff you haul? So many people buy a trailer shell with axles that match the trailer, Then they add a LQ and they are way over weight. If your trailer really grosses out close to 20,000lbs, and you add ( I suspect a dually pickup) at around 9000lbs. You probably are over the 26,000lbs that usually requires a CDL license to drive. You will have to review your own state laws on that. |
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Location: Decatur, Texas | Yes, I have taken this trailer over the CAT scales and I had the tire dealer check it also and the gross weight is right at 19-k lbs. and the actual axle weight the time I checked it with 2 of my large horses and 2 of my avg. horses was 14,660lbs, but this was loaded with everything but the black and grey water tanks full. The empty or (dry) gross weight is 12,740lbs. I haul with a 07 Dodge cab -n chassis quad cab with CM hauler bed, 6.7 diesel, auto, factory exhaust brake (HELPS A TON with this load) and you are right we hit the scale loaded right at 25-k lbs loaded! |
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Location: Decatur, Texas | I just check our other trailer we just bought for vet trips ( 07 S&H 3 horse gooseneck with 2'SW and it has ST235X85R16's and the rating on them shows E 3640lbs at 80psi and the wheels show 3750lbs at 80psi. Would these tires work on my larger trailer since the psi rating is the same. Sorry so many stupid questions, just don't have the money to do the 17.5" tires and wheel or even 16" tires and wheels both right now. Everything I am reading and seeing is telling me the same! (tires and wheels must match lbs. and psi, or wheel must exceed the tire rating)
Or can somebody give me an idea on where to find heavier wheels and tires?
Edited by c.will_09 2008-08-03 4:36 PM
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Location: Decatur, Texas | I guess if I am reading the replies correctly, the rated psi and weight of the wheels should be the same as or more than the tires themself? Can anyone give me any idea on where I can find wheels to work with heavier tires without having to buy 17.5"? We are planing a trip for the end of the month and want to get this done before we leave. Also, will it hurt anything hauling at or over the trailers max weight?
Edited by c.will_09 2008-08-03 6:50 PM
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Location: Barnesville, Ga. | What brand of tire do you have? It makes a difference. No chinese tires please. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 317
Location: Barnesville, Ga. | When upgrading to 17.5 wheels you probably need to change out your wheel studs. Most 7k axles have 9/16" studs and 17.5 wheels usually require 5/8" studs. Also, 16" wheels are hub centered "hub centric" and 17.5 wheels are lug centered "lug centric". Be careful of the speed rating on 17.5" tires as some have very low speed ratings and will still overheat and blow. Back spacing on 17.5 wheels is slightly different too, do you have room in the fender for a bigger tire/wheel? Are you having trouble with brakes not stopping? Is the trailer new? Will the manufacturer stand behind the product, after all they sold you a 4 horse trailer with LQ to used with 4 horses. Sounds under axled from the get go. The next size axle gets you alot bigger brake. |
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Veteran
Posts: 285
| We run into this problem when we wanted to put 14 ply tires on our son's trailer. The rim were not rated for a 14 ply therefore we had to purchase the right rims for the tire. Yes, it was very expensive to do so, but we felt for the safety and piece of mind especially when going on long trips it was worth every penny. And guess what? This was the first time in four years of traveling west that we did not have a blowout. Buying tires can get expensive out on the road. A lot more than what we can buy them for from our local tire dealer.cw, if at all possible, do what the tire salemsman recommends. It will save you money in the long run.
Edited by classygirl98 2008-08-03 9:09 PM
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Location: Northern Utah | don't know which brand of tire you have, Maybe I read past it. But using the Goodyear specs. I believe I read that you currently have 235/85R/16 "G rated" tires, according to Goodyear that size can handle 3042lbs at 80 psi. (which is what your current 80 psi wheels will support) That same tire will support 3750 at 110 psi. So if you keep your same tires and just upgrade your wheels. you will gain 2832lbs of Load carrying. Your dealer is being safe by not mounting "G" tires on a 80 psi rim. Most folks look at the tire and inflate to what ever pressure the is stamped on the rubber of the sidwall. Few people actually look at the rim. So with a "G" rated tire on a 80 psi rim, too great of a risk of somebody over inflating it because they didn't look at both the tire and rim. Four "G" rated tires and rims will give you a 15,000lb load limit. But you say your axles are only rated for 14,000lbs. ( two 7,000 axles) So now you have overloaded your axles. All parts are over engineered. So will your axles support 14,001 lbs or will they support 18,000lbs. I don't know where the weak link will be in your setup. Will the lug bolts break, will the torison bars that support the axles break, will the bearings give out. Something in each of your axle is only designed to support 7000lbs. so possible that part will give out when put under stress. Apparrently they have held up to the 15,000 so far with only a tire blow out. But at some point a part will fail. I'd hate to see the lug nuts pop off at 65 mph on the freeway. I think the cheap fix right now, is to get the proper rims and run your current "G" rated tires at their maximum pressure. The proper and long term fix will be to upgrade your axles, tires and wheels. My friend just ordered a new trailer. It's heavy like yours so he got it with 3 axles all sporting "G" rated tires. 6 tires @ 3750=22,500lbs total. |
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Location: Vermont | Originally written by c.will_09 on 2008-08-03 7:35 PM Also, will it hurt anything hauling at or over the trailers max weight? Over-weight?...YES |
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Location: Rocky Mount N.C. | Originally written by tom-tom on 2008-08-03 8:50 PM
When upgrading to 17.5 wheels you probably need to change out your wheel studs. Most 7k axles have 9/16" studs and 17.5 wheels usually require 5/8" studs. Also, 16" wheels are hub centered "hub centric" and 17.5 wheels are lug centered "lug centric". Be careful of the speed rating on 17.5" tires as some have very low speed ratings and will still overheat and blow. Back spacing on 17.5 wheels is slightly different too, do you have room in the fender for a bigger tire/wheel? Are you having trouble with brakes not stopping? Is the trailer new? Will the manufacturer stand behind the product, after all they sold you a 4 horse trailer with LQ to used with 4 horses. Sounds under axled from the get go. The next size axle gets you alot bigger brake. 17.5 wheels with 9/16" stud holes.... http://www.trailertiresandwheels.com/site/1284278/product/0377865 |
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Location: Decatur, Texas | OMG! I did not realize that there was so much involved in tires. I thought if you had a 16" wheel you could put any 16" tire on it. Guess I was wrong. THe tires that are on my trailer are called Winland and they show 14 ply rating, 3500lbs at 94psi. I just got back from another tire dealer and was told that these tires are a poly belt instead of a steel belt. Now what does that mean to me???? So if I install better tires and wheels will I still be able to haul the weight or not? Or do I need to look into larger axles too? |
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Location: Rocky Mount N.C. | (quote) THe tires that are on my trailer are called Winland and they show 14 ply rating, 3500lbs at 94psi. Chinese tires... http://www.yellowbot.com/winland-super-tire-incorporated-houston-tx.html http://super-tire.com/ Don Dominguez, longtime head of the former Private Brand Tire Group, has completed an agreement with a Chinese importer to introduce a private brand tire line to the U.S.
Mr. Dominguez, formerly a consultant to Mitas Inc., told Tire Business that Winland-brand medium truck tires will ship...from China. Ye reap what ye sow..... I would stay away from these "private brand" tires. The side wall should read if they are poly belted or steel belted ...My guess is poly. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 317
Location: Barnesville, Ga. | This link might help. http://www.southwestwheel.com/store/p-432-nw109292t.aspx Looks like they have a reasonable price for wheel only. As for whether or not your axles work you'll have to be the judge of that based on how much you use and how heavily loaded you want to be. More than likely one day you will bend a spindle and start chewing a tire up and will have plenty of notice before it blows. That is what happened to me. For about the same money as replacing axles you could upgrade to an STI airride, if you ever bend a spindle again you can just change the spindle not the whole axle. Saves you a little. They will make your axles and set your ride height for anything, and your horses should love it. How old is your trailer? |
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Location: Decatur, Texas | I can not read what the tire actualy read, but was told "poly belt" and that is the main reason I am having troubles. We between the cheap tires and know I find out they are mounted on wrong rated wheels. I got to talk to a manager at Super Tire and he told me that these tires was not rated for the weight of this trailer and told the trailer manurfacture last September to remove them from this size trailers and replace all of them with another brand of tire. |
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Location: Decatur, Texas | I will call them on Tuesday, they are only about 30 miles from me. This trailer is just over 1 year old! I bought it to haul 4 horses with every weekend, but since the tire and wheels issue we either haul just 2 or 3 horse and beg someone to pick up the other horse if the family goes. Now we have bought a 3 horse S&H gooseneck and parked the LQ until we can figure out something on the tires. My better half and daughter are the ones that use the LQ trailer most of the time, they are into these competitive trail challenge deals around Texas and my job is to make sure they have something to use that is safe and dependable to use in case I do not get to go with them to fix any problems that may happen. The blow out that happened, I was not with them and they said that it felt like the trailer actually came off the ground. They was heading out 281 through Stephenville going to Blanco for a trail challenge, lucky for me some folks stop to help them and saved me a 2 hour trip to change a tire.
Edited by c.will_09 2008-08-04 11:26 PM
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Location: Decatur, Texas | Also sounds like you need to join US RIDER. |
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Posts: 317
Location: Barnesville, Ga. | I had similar problems with a blow out on my new trailer. I skipped the dealer and went straight to the manufacturer and they were very helpful. Sent 5 new goodyears mounted on new wheels. They also paid for a goodyear spare I had mounted on the blow out while I was waiting on the new tires so that I would have a spare. |
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Location: Decatur, Texas | We are checking into US RIDER right now, but I don't think that is going to help the tire and wheel probelm at hand. That is what I am needing help with 1st. Thanks for all the help. If anyone has any other ideas, PLEASE let me know. c.will
Edited by c.will_09 2008-08-05 12:14 PM
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Location: North of Detroit, MI | Is there a way to reduce the load on the trailer? At a minimum you need new tires - then it's a matter of staying under the 14,000 pounds the axles, wheels and tires are rated for. I am curious as to the trailer manufacturer and if you bought this used because I'm wondering if a previous owner put the chinese tires on, or if they were original equipment. I would not be surprized at a mfgr using small axles, per se... but I would like to know which one it is. thanks. This thread made me go check my data plate for my trailer - I've got 6k axles on a 3H steel GN with GVWR of 10,180. Trailer was 5300 empty when new, I've added about 500# in insulation, paneling, etc. I only haul 1 or 2, 1000 pound horses. Even if I did 3 horses - it would be without camping gear (water tank & hay) so I'd still be okay. |
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Location: oxford, ny | Have had a similar problem on my 06 sundowner...we have blown three tires in a matter of three weeks. The tire manufacturer will not warranty the tires as they say sundowner put the wrong tire on. Sundowner will not replace the tires, they told me to buy a higher speed rated tire. Just what I need to do, spend 1500.00 for new tires when they put the wrong tire on to begin with. |
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Location: Vermont | Originally written by c.will_09 on 2008-08-03 3:31 PM I have 7000lbs axles on this trailer, that is what came on the trailer. I missed one of your questions, I pull this trailer at 65 or just under on the interstate and in town and back road usually 5 miles under the posted limit because of the weight and the amount of time it takes to stop this thing you never know what retard maybe coming out of a driveway or around the corner. Thanks, c.will It sounds like you need to contact an attorney...because if they actually sold you a trailer with the understanding that the weight was going to be OVER 14K...An implied warranty of fitness for a particular purpose is a warranty implied by law that if a seller knows or has reason to know of a particular purpose for which some item is being purchased by the buyer, the seller is guaranteeing that the item is fit for that particular purpose. |
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Location: Decatur, Texas | Yeah, I can do what the manurfacutre told me to do, "get smaller horse" or carry less cargo! We have Quater horses and Paints that we use in team roping, barrel racing, and any type of ranch work you can think of in these trail hose compititons we do. So, yes these are all well built "RANCH TYPE HORSES" that weigh anywhere from my daughters barrel horse (1140lbs) to our ranch geldings that avg. (low one of 1300lbs and the high one of 1420lbs)! No they are not fat, just well built for the job they do! I bought this trailer new! |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 720
| What brand of trailer is this anyway?? |
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Location: Southern New Mexico | The empty or (dry) gross weight is 12,740lbs The empty weight is 12,000 lbs and you only have 7000lb axels? That just doesn't sound right. It sounds like the manufacturer screwed up. My trailer has a GVWR of 12,000lbs and I have 7000lb axels on it and a empty weight of 6200lbs. |
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Location: Decatur, Texas | Yes, this trailer has been scaled per the manurfactures specs. and the dry gross weight is 12740lbs. with 2 7-k lbs axles! Every other trailer dealer I have talked to told me that 2 7-k axles means their trailer will have a gross weight of 14-k lbs TOTAL! That way when a customer buys that trailer they can load it up and go get a gross weight and it should be at or under that number! Just like what you mentioned in your post "The empty weight is 12,000 lbs and you only have 7000lb axels? That just doesn't sound right. It sounds like the manufacturer screwed up. My trailer has a GVWR of 12,000lbs and I have 7000lb axels on it and a empty weight of 6200lbs." that menas you can carry 5800lbs of cargo and still have 2-k extra!
Edited by c.will_09 2008-08-10 2:17 AM
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Location: Where the wind comes sweepin' down the plain... | Different manufacturers will use one of two methods. One will be based solely on the axles....which would mean you need 10,000# axles to meet your requirements with 1000# overallowance. Two is to take into account tongue weight of the trailer and that the tow vehicle carries 20 to 30% of the total weight of the trailer, 14,000 + 30% = 18,200. A google search for trailer gvwr brought this up: http://www.trailermanufacturersassociation.org/currentissues/currentissues1.html |
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Location: Decatur, Texas | 
well said! and that would work out great if the weight of the trailer was "as describe" or "as stated", but this trailer is actually 2100lbs over the "dry gross" weight so that puts a whole new out look on things! |
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Location: Decatur, Texas | Just got back from trying to buy tires and tire dealer pointed out something out on my old tires that I did not see before. one part of the tire shows 14PR and another part of the tire that shows the weight rating shows "load range F" which is a 12 ply tire. So what do I actually have? a 13ply or pure junk?
Edited by c.will_09 2008-08-11 2:14 PM
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Location: Decatur, Texas | Just got a quote on 17.5 tires on steel wheels with a rating around 4800 each on the tires and wheels for $1680. for a set of 4. Is that about right? If I do that then I would need to find a set of wheel covers, cause them 17.5 solid wheel look CHEAP! |
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Expert
Posts: 3802
Location: Rocky Mount N.C. | Those steel 17.5's are solid... Here's some "BLING" for ya!. http://www.jaeeagle.com/product_info.php?cPath=28_168_68_136&products_id=441 Be sure those 17.5 wheels are drilled for 9/16" studs.... Not the 5/8" like most of them are. Don't forget these wheels... http://www.trailertiresandwheels.com/site/1284278/product/0377865
Edited by retento 2008-08-15 6:19 PM
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 317
Location: Barnesville, Ga. | Is that a chinese made tire with a slow speed rating? I paid over $300 for a 14 ply goodyear just a couple of months ago mounted on my wheel. |
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Location: Decatur, Texas | I'm not sure yet, I am going to see them Monday. He is going to get me a prcie on Michelins also. All I know right now is the set he priced me is going to cost 1680.... He wants me to check out some 16" that are Alcoa alum. wheels with Michelin Tires that are rated just under 4000lbs each. But they are around the same price. He thinks I would just as well off with this set unless I am going to get larger axles. But also reminded me that 17.5" might not fit my trailer because of the wheel opening space. Did not realize that there was so much involved in changing tires and wheel. |
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Expert
Posts: 3802
Location: Rocky Mount N.C. | The 215/75R17.5's are 30.7" in diameter... They may be an inch or so shorter that what's on your trailer now... http://www.michelintruck.com/michelintruck/tires-retreads/tireInfo.do?tread=XTA |
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Location: Decatur, Texas | The tire dealer I am talking with is telling me the problem with the 17'5" is they maybe too wide or the back spacing of the wheels and could rub the inner fender/body! Now he is telling me something about stud size could be a issue as well and he would need to check it out Monday. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 544
Location: Claxton, Ga. | Get the ALCOA wheels and new load range G tires(Michelin/Goodyear). You will be good to go. My trailer came with load range G tires. |
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Expert
Posts: 3802
Location: Rocky Mount N.C. | Then get these 16"x6", "bling bling" wheels... http://www.trailertiresandwheels.com/site/1284278/product/AW1607 And this tire and you're set to go... http://www.trailertiresandwheels.com/site/1284278/product/RG614 $105.00 wheel and $218.00 tire plus tax, some freight, mounting and balancing. You'll still have $1500.00 in the set of four.
Edited by retento 2008-08-16 2:31 PM
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Location: Decatur, Texas | Thanks, I will call them Monday morning. |
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Extreme Veteran
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Location: Claxton, Ga. | When you weighed your rig what was the weight on the rear axles? You should of had 4 weights. Front axle, rear axle for truck, trailer axle, and gross weight, as long as you hit the scales correctly. What was the weight over the trailer axles? That is the weight you need to be concerned about. Your tires and axles ratings will be what the DOT goes by if an issue arises. I read you have 2- 7,000lb axles which you already know gives you a gross of 14k lbs max. I just checked my empty weight ticket and my rear axle weight on the trailer empty(but full of water) was 6980 and my axles are 7,000 axles also. Got another 7,000 lbs to go before trouble arises. My tire ratings put me at 14,700 lbs max weight also. So the lower number is 14,000 lbs. and my hard limit. Anything over that and DOT/state boys will have a fit if you are in an accident. Would like to see your weight slip. My trailer is a 4 horse with 12 foot shortwall LQ. Exiss Event 412xt.
Edited by Spooler 2008-08-17 12:47 AM
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Location: Decatur, Texas | It was a solid scale! And I scaled it how the manufacture told me to check it. Trailer only! Pulled the truck right off the scale weighed trailer still hook to the truck, then unhooked trailer on the scale and got my gross weight. To make sure I done it right I took it to a trailer repair shop and had to weigh it as well and come up with the same figures. My axle weight tickets show 14,660 with 2 large horses, 2 avg. horses, loaded with everything but waste tanks full. Yes, I have 2-7-klbs axles, the tires show 3500lbs each @94psi and the wheels show 3750 each @80psi! So I am ove on the tires and axles for sure. If I load the 4 large horses we use most of the time I have a axle weight of almost 15,500lbs! Mine is a 4 horse 8' short wall, 5 foot mid tack with a 6' slide out overall floor is around 32' |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 544
Location: Claxton, Ga. | Yeah, I am 32' on the floor also. Something dosen't seem right. My suggestion to you would be to find a scale that is split so you can weigh hooked up all at once. I have a certified scale 10 miles from my house that gave me weights on each axle and gross weight( it was a Sisson scale). Depending on where you load your horse (which stall they are in) will change the trailer axle weight. Not all of there weight is on the trailer axle depending on where you load them. You can load the heavier ones in the forward stalls to take some weight off the trailer axles but it increases your trucks rear axle weight or Pin weight. Find a split scale and go weigh there just to double check. You can try different configurations on where to put what horse to get a handle on your trailer axle weight. I believe you can get your horses and gear loaded in such a way to be under your trailer axles max weight. Give it a try, plus it is free.......
Edited by Spooler 2008-08-17 11:21 PM
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Location: Decatur, Texas | Ok, lets start over here. My trailer has a full 5' midtack and that is where all of my tack and suppies are kept. I use the 2 center stalls for my larger horses and smaller horse on front and rear, I have put the 2 large horses in the front 2 stalls over the axles, even put the 2 large horses in the rear. The way this trialer is built, only the fornt horse is on the front edge of the axle, the 2nd and 3rd are on top and the 4th head is on the back edge of the rear axle.
Either way I still have a 14,600lbs axles weight so what am I trying to find out by weighing on a split scale? |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 544
Location: Claxton, Ga. | Well, you have done everything possible. Wish i could help. Just like everyone else I learned of all this stuff after I bought my trailer. Thank goodness it was a OH %^$%^^ moment as you have had. That trailer dry is 2000lbs more than mine and we both have the same footage on the floor. |
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Regular
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Location: Decatur, Texas | Originally written by Spooler on 2008-08-18 6:26 PM
Well, you have done everything possible. Wish i could help. Just like everyone else I learned of all this stuff after I bought my trailer. Thank goodness it was a OH %^$%^^ moment as you have had. That trailer dry is 2000lbs more than mine and we both have the same footage on the floor. I guess that is the main problem with mine. The actual dry weight is 2100lbs more than the website shows and more than I was told. The equals about 1 1/2 horses. So if this was a 3 horse trailer I would be fine. Thanks for the input! c.will |
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Posts: 73
Location: Decatur, Texas | Have meeting with Lawyer on Friday at 2pm! I have 2 or 3 statements from tire dealers that deal with heavy type tires only and all of them has said "they will not install a higher psi tire on the 80psi wheels I have because of the liability issues involed and they should have never been mountd like this to start with"! |
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Location: So. Calif | What was the final outcome on this? Thanks, Richard |
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HELP tires / wheels 911!
