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Expert
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Location: Danielsville Georgia | Just curious if the horse trailer business has gone poop side up like the suv and truck sales? |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 474
Location: White Mills, Ky. | Don't know about the trailer sales, but if you have your vehicle serviced at the dealership...beware. My MIL took her Buick Park Avenue into the dealer because it was "riding rough". She was told it needed new brakes, an alignment and a host of other things. Suspicious, she took it to a neighbor who is a mechanic. He found that the tread was separated on one of the front tires. Two new tires and *voila* the problem is fixed. He also said that the brakes were good for another 1,000 miles! We were told by an "insider" that since the sales of the larger/luxury cars (which have the highest profit margin) are down, the dealerships are trying to make up for the losses by boosting the business in the maintanance department. Of course, I'm sure there are honest dealership mechanics out there. Just be careful to know what and who you're dealing with. RIDE ON! |
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Member
Posts: 24
Location: Idaho | I believe horse prices are much worse. But those with heart will always ride and need a way to haul their horse! |
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Posts: 1205
Location: Danielsville Georgia | For the most part Dwight thats bunk.Was in the repair end 30 years.Lots of autos needing L:OTS of work out there on the road.I survived the big car gas crunch of the 70s.They would have found that separated doing the alignment and I bet it needs the HOST of other things.Now back to my question on trailer sales.Amy one have any inside knowledge if trailers sales have taken a belly up? |
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Location: KY | Hey Houndog Don't know about dealers but I have been unable (so far) to sell an 05 Merhow Equilite.... |
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Expert
Posts: 5870
Location: western PA | Originally written by hounddog on 2008-06-28 9:56 PM
For the most part Dwight thats bunk. Bunk? I think not! Just because you were honest, that doesn't make the dealerships in my part of the country so. Unnecessary work and misdiagnoses are the norm. All of my vehicles see only private business owners and avoid the dealers like the plague. Gard |
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Location: KY | Hey Houndog I just checked the inventory at Diamond J (on this site, my favorite dealer) and they have a bunch of trailers listed from a closed dealer. I don't know any details but it sounds kinda rough. |
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Expert
Posts: 1205
Location: Danielsville Georgia | Every dealer is different.Every independent is different.Can't compare or lump all into a category.You may be a butt and your neighbor a really nice person.Can't say the whole neighbor hood is rotten. Now back to trailers.Anyone notice if prices are falling or any pushing super deals? |
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Location: Central Arkansas | I have been seriously shopping for a single or double slide since last fall. I am seeing mostly the same big trailers advertised. And, a lot of times, the same trailers by multiple dealers. I had an offer to have one big trailer delivered to my door just to see if it would fit down my driveway since the size of it was an issue! But, my driveway isn't the only driveway I would need to go down with it! IMO, Dealers don't seem to be ordering big LQ's to speculate on. Almost all of the trailers I have had an interest in are left over Congress, World or NFR trailers. I hate to order since they never seem to come in exactly as I had wanted. I would rather see, touch and feel the finished product and decide what I can live with and without. I have not seem any super great deals (on anything I have liked) by dealers. There are a few on personally owned trailers out there. But those folks just want out and no trades. I have been with two LQ trailers at the same time and don't want to do that again! But, I don't want to sell too soon and be without a LQ for some places I need to go this summer. One dealer told me that he sold 17 trailers at a function last summer and the same place this year netted him one sale. |
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Posts: 2453
Location: Northern Utah | I know that my cost for materials for a home have shot up. Steel rebar jumped 40% in the last 90 days. Steel Garage doors have had two price increases (totally 20%) in that same 90 days and they have warned us to expect another increase in July. So ANYTHING made from metal is going up in price. Add to that the price increases of any material that comes from Crude Oil ( carpet fibers, plastics for plumbing, tar paper, ashphalt shingles etc) and we have seen some pretty steep price increases in the cost to build a home. The appraisals have all dropped by 30% because of the housing slump. So we have a real difference between what I can sell a house for and what it cost to build a house. I am sure the rapid price increases in metals will have to affect those who build trailers. They may not be selling well this year. But the cost to build them in the future is not going down. They will have to increase their prices or go out of business. And just like the housing market, We no longer will build a spec home. Dealers won't stock large LQs on speculation. Everything has a buyer before we start, we have to run a much leaner more efficient operation, we are seeing people go back to smaller homes. Wages have not kept up with the increase in home cost. Trailer owners will probably go back to simpler trailers. Because of the cost to buy them and the cost to tow them. Because of the downturn in the economy, I have thought of selling my trailer. And like Rose, Nobody has called to inquire about it |
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Member
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Location: Tennessee FINALLY! | I think so, since my trailer has yet to sell. I've never had this hard a time selling a trailer. I am willing to trade for something smaller and still cant get it gone! |
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Expert
Posts: 1205
Location: Danielsville Georgia | I think and its not a educated guess that horse trailers must have a HUGE markup.I look at the new one I bought.Lots of straight panels,lots of rivets,not as many welds as a steel trailer,cheap import tires and wheels.Yet MSRP on the one I bought and a NEW Mercury Gran Marquis,new Harley Road King and almost TWO PT Cruisers with ac was about the same!! Something sure fishy about that.They have nothing difficult to warranty compared to the other items,no where near the EPA/FED stuff to deal with and for sure engineers that are not as sharp that work with boats,cars,motorcycles etc.I had a wheel on my trailer discoloring and sent them a photo.I got no phone call or any info back from them but two weeks went by and UPS showed up with a NEW TIRE AND WHEEL.Then no return anything information.So I got a Chinese 16 radial tire for free and also got to keep the other never been used tire and wheel.What a way to maintain profits(lol) and customer good will.(lol) Still have yet to ever hear from anyone with the trailer manufacture. |
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Regular
Posts: 65
Location: Kansas | The mark up on trailers really depends on the brand, if the LQ is farmed out to someone else to do, and the dealer. I know of one trailer for instance that the dealer had $64,000 into the trailer, took it to congress and priced it at $164,000 but offered to sell it to a friend for $74,000 when it did not sell at congress. We are hoping that once the NATDA gets their Blue book finished it will help with these kind of markups. If you are a dealer and you offer the same quality of trailer at a lower price, people tend to think that the trailer you are selling for 75000 may not be as good quality as the one for 140000. Even though it is. This just my opinion though. |
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Expert
Posts: 5870
Location: western PA | Originally written by HTWOK on 2008-06-30 7:43 PM If you are a dealer and you offer the same quality of trailer at a lower price, people tend to think that the trailer you are selling for 75000 may not be as good quality as the one for 140000. Even though it is. This just my opinion though. This is very true. There is a perceived perception that a more expensive product is a better product. I worked as a portrait photographer in a studio. My boss would take the same series of photos, mount them in slightly different frames, and place them in another part of his studio priced at 2 1/2 times the rate for the photos nearest the door. He always received comments on how much better those photos were than the others. People often paid the premium, because they wanted the "better" portrait. When I built boats, I under priced my competitor, model for model. One magazine article reviewed both our products, stating the my competitor's were better, even though they were more expensive. I raised all my prices above his and later in another review, mine were better. I've seen people argue whose item they purchased is better, even though they were the same. The final rational of one owner's claim that his was better, was, "it had to be. I paid more for mine". This is frequently the case in custom woodworking, where prices are often based on the ability of the customer to write a large check. The same materials and skills are shared by the same craftsman, who determines his pricing by whose ownership his products will grace. If you directly compare the construction of trailers, side by side, often times the more expensive unit is not the best built one. Again, many people will think that the more expensive unit has to be the better one. This is true in automotive sales, where different brands built by the same company using the same components, will have different prices. A modest interior upgrade cost to the manufacturer can result in larger profits with the resulting inflated prices. Gard
Edited by gard 2008-06-30 8:37 PM
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 Expert
Posts: 1871
Location: NY | price is everything , I did this to a guy at are stable, I bought two bell boot the same thing and told him that one was one price and the other was more he took the higher price boot because and this is a quote( it is better because it cost more) I told him that both boot are the same and the same price he did not belive me people thing if it cost more it is better |
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Posts: 1205
Location: Danielsville Georgia | I wasn't so much referring to trailers with LQs. |
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Posts: 1283
Location: Home of Wild Turkey Whiskey | I'm with you hound, I look at these trailers and often wonder how they cost so much. I sell equipment for a living. I can sell a piece of equipment that weighs 9,000lbs. has an lp engine, a full hydraulic system, drive axle, and mast that will lift to 16ft. for under 20K. An aluminum trailer that weighs 5000lb, and two trailer axles, can cost mid 20's. |
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Expert
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Location: Danielsville Georgia | Thats what I mean.Theres not much to these trailers when compared with other machinery out there.Theres got to be a HUGE markup.Maybe this new economy will bring down some items to their real value.Nothing against making money but its the amount thats made.I'd love to know cost in a moderate size aluminum trailer.Not a LQ. |
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Location: Where the wind comes sweepin' down the plain... | Just figure raw aluminum weight on a three horse right now that weighs 4500 pounds. http://www.lme.co.uk/aluminium.asp There is a chunk of dollars just in the raw. I have a feeling they are feeling the same pinch that we are right now. |
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| Being very familar with the retail horse trailer industry, I can tell you that the average GP on a trailer, industry wide, is less than 12%. Deduct all other costs of operating from that, and a dealer is most fortunate to show a 1% to possibly 3% NP, depending on how efficient his operation is. Do not worry about a dealer making "too much money", as the free market always takes care of that! I applaud anyone, dealer or individual, that can make a large profit though, as that is what fuels our economy! We each, whether in business or working for someone else, must be profitable, lest our families go hungry! I certainly want all the folks I purchase anything from to be profitable. I want them around to service what I buy, when I need it. I truly wish everyone all the profit and success they can achieve! In a free market like ours, you simply pass on buying any product you deem too expensive. If enough folks do this, the price will adjust accordingly. It is as simple as supply and demand. As to the "state of the retail horse trailer business" in the current economy, I can tell you that industry wide, year to date, as compared to same time period in 07, total dollars of horse trailer sales are down some. For that same time frame, I most humbly tell you that DHMCO sales are up considerably. We are most fortunate in this, and I credit the folks that work with me, the great value in the brands we sell, the great financing programs we have, and the great service after the sale that we provide. A large inventory, which we always have, surely helps too! I hope these comments will help address some of the questions posed here. I am very proud of our capitalistic system, proud to live in this great country, and proud to be in a profitable business that fills a need for our customers. I consider it an honor to be a part of our system. DON SMITH, OWNER, DHMCO |
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Expert
Posts: 1205
Location: Danielsville Georgia | The word DEALER was has not been mentioned by me in this thread.MANUFACTURE is whom this was referring to.If thats all the profit the DEALER is making I feel for you.A kinda plain 3 horse aluminum trailer with a 3 foot short wall dressing room,4 16 inch radial tires(Chinese)One small battery.Very little wiring and pretty much straight panels,mild curves cannot be hard to manufacture and yet MSRP same as a Harley touring bike or a small domestic truck.Something doesn't sit quite right with that scenario.Manufacturing tolerances aren't even in par with the other two products I mentioned.No where near the effort or quality of materials to produce.
Edited by hounddog 2008-07-01 10:17 AM
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| hounddog, I can only speak for the dealer base, re my knowlege of profits etc. As to the value you received vs the amount you paid, when you bought your trailer, you were free to buy any product from any dealer, that you perceived to be a better deal. The true value of any product is always the amount the purchaser is willing to pay, when the seller is ready to sell. I assume your actions were voluntary. My goal, in making this post, is certainly not to argue with you. I think, based on your signature, you likely raise horses. I hope you all the very best in that venture, and I truly hope you make lots money at it. DON SMITH, OWNER, DHMCO |
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Expert
Posts: 1283
Location: Home of Wild Turkey Whiskey | I also am a proponent of the free market and a capitalistic society. I am also a believer that if there was an incredible profit margin in the trailers from a manufacturers point of view, there would be more manufacturers jumping on the band wagon. We live in a country where you are free to spend your money and investors money to start any business that you feel can be profitable. I wouldn't want it any other way. |
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Expert
Posts: 1205
Location: Danielsville Georgia | HWBAR.The trailer manufactures for the most part were all purchased and now run by one company.It was worth it for someone and certain groups to do such.Go back and they out the products I mentioned all torn apart and side by side.Now really compare and ask to be shown cost and MSRP.Which do you think would be less expensive to build,design.Look at the equipment needed to build all three,to transport.Look at what type and skill level employee needed. |
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Expert
Posts: 3802
Location: Rocky Mount N.C. | Originally written by hounddog on 2008-07-01 12:43 PM
HWBAR.The trailer manufactures for the most part were all purchased and now run by one company.It was worth it for someone and certain groups to do such.Go back and they out the products I mentioned all torn apart and side by side.Now really compare and ask to be shown cost and MSRP.Which do you think would be less expensive to build,design.Look at the equipment needed to build all three,to transport.Look at what type and skill level employee needed. ? You talkin bout Universal Trailer? Sooner, Exiss, Featherlite, Miley and Haulmark? What about all the rest?.... Or are you saying, there isn't anyone else?..... "For the most part"!. |
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Expert
Posts: 1205
Location: Danielsville Georgia | Lot of the OTHERS were also ought by a group.CM,S&h and a few others are now all under one group. |
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Location: Where the wind comes sweepin' down the plain... | CM, S&H, & Big Tex Trailers. http://trailer-bodybuilders.com/trailer-oem/cm_trailers_big_tex/ |
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Expert
Posts: 3802
Location: Rocky Mount N.C. | OK... That covers about nine different trailers under two manufactorers....... There's at least 160 more, who owns those ?? (Quote: The trailer manufactures for the most part were all purchased and now run by one company.) (Quote: Lot of the OTHERS were also bought by a group.CM,S&h and a few others are now all under one group.) (Quote:CM, S&H, & Big Tex Trailers.) (Quote: http://trailer-bodybuilders.com/trailer-oem/cm_trailers_big_tex/ ) Lot of the OTHERS!!!...That three...Name some more, because to me it only looks like just a few.
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Posts: 1205
Location: Danielsville Georgia | I'm not going to get into this one and that one for 160 brands if there are that many.Seems like several/numerous of the popular ones are owned under two names and there might be a LOT more.Why don't you research it so we can discuss it? The point is its not by any means rocket science to make one.Lots and then again I don't have figures are and have been made at home and by numerous wana be manufactures.They seem very over priced for what the product is.Maybe this economy will bring some products in line with reality. |
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Posts: 3802
Location: Rocky Mount N.C. | Ain't got time to research it. We're going to stimulate this country's economy this week...heading out to a show... Pay some entries, pay for stalls, buy some bedding,....... Buy some fuel!! AND on top of all of that, our HVAC here in the house bit the dust right after noon..... Another $3600.00+  Happy Fourth of July!!! |
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Posts: 1871
Location: NY | retento at leas it was something that could wait until after the 4 th happy holidays |
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Posts: 3853
Location: Vermont | Originally written by retento on 2008-07-01 8:08 PM AND on top of all of that, our HVAC here in the house bit the dust right after noon..... Another $3600.00+ Happy Fourth of July!!! REAL MEN DON'T HAVE A/C... |
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Expert
Posts: 1283
Location: Home of Wild Turkey Whiskey | Originally written by PaulChristenson on 2008-07-02 1:56 AM Originally written by retento on 2008-07-01 8:08 PM AND on top of all of that, our HVAC here in the house bit the dust right after noon..... Another $3600.00+ Happy Fourth of July!!! REAL MEN DON'T HAVE A/C... Real men in Vermont may not have A/C............... Real men in North Carolina will............................ |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 824
Location: Kansas | And their real women will appreciate it! 
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Expert
Posts: 2453
Location: Northern Utah | My sister works for a company that makes airbags that go into most makes of cars. Last week and this coming week, they sent all their emplopyees home. Told them they could take vacation, sick or personal leave if they wanted to get paid, or simply stay home with no pay. The reason was there is no demand. The production of cars in the US has dropped so low that they have over supplied the system and have to wait several weeks for the auto makers to consume whats in the supply line. |
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Economy
