|
|
Veteran
Posts: 243
 
Location: Maine | Sorry, but everyone here seems to know a lot about a lot of stuff. I am considering buying a compact Kioti tractor and have some questions. Does anyone here know anything about tractors or can you direct me to a friendly forum where I can ask my questions?thanks |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 5870
 
Location: western PA | Wrong forum, wrong tractor. Try Kubota @ TractorByNet.com
Edited by gard 2008-04-12 9:20 AM
|
|
| |
|
Veteran
Posts: 235
Location: Keymar,Maryland | try tractorpoint.com . |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 2953
Location: North Carolina | Since you're a horse person, I would say consider a small AG tractor instead. A compact tractor will cost almost the same as an AG tractor and be less capable. The horsepower is very similar, but the AG tractor is bigger. The best argument for a larger machine is safety. A more capable machine is less likely to hurt you or bystanders when faced with typical "horse keeping" tasks Don't buy on the basis of horsepower, compare lift capacities instead. |
|
| |
|
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 309
Location: MO | Hosspuller makes a good point. Lift capacity is very important. I have a John Deere diesel 960 compact utility tractor. Has a bucket but only lifts 10 feet. 90% of the time that's plenty. But, there are times, ...
It handles a 5' mower which is what I need most of the time. The bucket (front end loader) comes in handy for moving dirt, manure. rocks, etc. It has AG tires so I can get thru the mud. Power Steering and 4-wheel drive, don't leave home without it. |
|
| |
|
Regular
Posts: 83
Location: Cheshire England | Im very happy with my Kubota  |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 2614
| We have a John Deere utility tractor 32 horse,and it came with a blade,bushhog and front end loader,and trailer.I know JD is a high dollar tractor compared to others,but,I'd rather have a used JD that's been well cared for than a new cheaper tractor. |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 2953
Location: North Carolina | Not to start a brand bash ... What ever brand of tractor one purchases, you WILL need parts and service eventually. Let that factor into your decision. Tractors should last a long time. There are tractors built before there were TV's still in daily use. Check history to see how your tractor has been supported over the years. While history is not a warrenty, it's the best indicator we have. |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 5870
Location: western PA | Originally written by hosspuller on 2008-04-12 3:02 PM The best argument for a larger machine is safety. A more capable machine is less likely to hurt you or bystanders when faced with typical "horse keeping" tasks How will you or bystanders, be hurt by a machine that won't lift the same amount as another? Gard
Edited by gard 2008-04-12 6:16 PM
|
|
| |
|
Veteran
Posts: 116
Location: desert hills, az | I have a 24 hp Kubota and a 28 hp Kioti. The Kioti is not near as user friendly (cab space, controls, maint., etc) and is way harder to maintain and find parts for. I love the Kubota and the old man (80 years old) that works on tractors in this area swears by Kubota, Case, and John Deere. My 2 cents...don't buy a cheap tractor...buy one that will last. |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 2953
Location: North Carolina | Originally written by gard on 2008-04-12 5:12 PM Originally written by hosspuller on 2008-04-12 3:02 PM The best argument for a larger machine is safety. A more capable machine is less likely to hurt you or bystanders when faced with typical "horse keeping" tasks How will you or bystanders, be hurt by a machine that won't lift the same amount as another? Gard Gard ... From my own (in)experience. The gravest danger in tractors is overturning. Operator and bystanders are at risk in that case. These two examples are pure physics... bigger is more stable. (Bigger is less stressed too. It takes a practiced eye to estimate weights.) Consider a smaller machine lifting a large 800 pound bale 10 feet high while moving to stack it. Then consider that same bale being handled by a larger machine with double the lift capacity and reach. In-experience in using the rear hitch is also a problem. any attachment above the rear wheel center will cause a somersault. Again, a smaller machine is more likely to flip than a bigger machine for the same load. |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 5870
Location: western PA | In my experiences, most smaller machines will handle proportionately smaller loads than a larger machine. If both machines are used to their maximum capabilities, theoretically, they would be equally at risk. You are probably correct in saying that most deaths and injuries are caused by roll overs. I would think that any danger, caused by a machine to an operator or spectator, would be the fault of the operator. An operator of a large tractor, trying to perform a task that overloads his machine, will be at the same risk as the operator of the smaller tractor, doing the same thing. There are hundreds of thousands of compact tractors, that daily perform a remarkable amount of work, safety and efficiently. The purchaser of any piece of equipment, should buy the machine that best suits his needs, whether it is large or small. As you say, if the smaller tractor is consistanly overloaded, the operator is at risk. However, if he is aware of its capabilities and operates it safety within its design limits, his machine should be just as safe as any other, regardless of size. Gard
Edited by gard 2008-04-12 7:28 PM
|
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 2614
| I grew up on a grain farm,all of my life I was around big tractors.I was never allowed to operate one until I was grown and married and my husband and I had to do some convincing for my dad to allow me to drive a grain buggy rig then.I have known of several deaths due to operator inexperience and error.farming itself is one of the most dangerous occupations because of the potential of serious injuries and death from machinery.I say all of this as a prelude to :safety precautions must be observed to the utmost at all times.Anytime there is a safety warning,or a safety mechanism on a tractor,it is usually because there was a serious injury or death that led to it being put on there. WHen those warnings appear,follow them.If there's a seat belt on the tractor,wear it.Don't disable safety devices,and,be sure the tractor can handle what you intend,or,only use it for what it was designed to do to begin with.Lots of people don't realize that it does not take much to offbalance a tractor and roll it over,just a little bit of an incline and/or a little too much speed will do it.I know I'm probably coming off here as "Ms.Safety" or something,but,having been around it,plus,as a nurse having seen some very bad injuries as results of tractor accidents,in this I feel I'm not talking out of turn. |
|
| |
|
Veteran
Posts: 243
Location: Maine | These are all good points and great advice and suggestions. I appreciate that we've been allowed to pursue this OT thread. I've been using the resources here for over a year, and feel like I know a lot of you! I really trust your advice.
I have never operated a tractor before, but my husband has some experience. We just sold a 68 International 50HP and are now going to buy something smaller for me to do things like push manure & mud around, bush hog 5 or so acres, maybe move some gravel or sand for the riding arena, things like that.
I am trying to avoid getting into a payment. I have about $7K cash to spend.
I considered a JD 790 (2003) being offered at 11850 - I really don't want to borrow $5000, but will if that's the way to go.
I looked at this tiny little Kioti - an older 1714 - just 17HP, with 3 pt hitch and a PTO (not live) - comes with a bucket, forks, a weight and a plow blade (nice extra for Maine). It's rather powerful for it's size - the original owner bush hogged, moved fill around when he built his house, and even twitched some smaller logs.
This thing is like a lawn tractor on steroids. It would even fit in my horse trailer if I thought the trailer could handle it (I have no idea how much this tractor weighs)
He's asking $6500 but I was going to offer him $4000 and see what happens. But after this thread, I am reconsidering.
What I would really like is a 25HP JD or Kubota, or even a Ford - with a bucket, without a zillion hours. I really don't want to get into a big tractor since I am not all experienced. I certainly don't want to dump this thing over. But finding an older JD or Kubota (I figured something in the late 1990's) is next to impossible around here. There are plenty in the $8K range around the country, but shipping would bring the price up to nearly $10K, I would imagine.
A |
|
| |
|
Elite Veteran
Posts: 824
Location: Kansas | I have an old Ford Jubilee, rated at (I believe) about 22 HP. I can brushhog my 17 acres, although it takes forever. It is up to some arena dragging and I have bladed my drive, but that is about all it has the "oomph" for. I understand compression is better in newer tractors, but there is no way this could handle a front end loader. I'd go with something a little bigger. |
|
| |
|
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 544
Location: Claxton, Ga. | Whatever you do get one with a front end loader. I have used that the most since I have gotten my tractor. It is a 20HP 4wd Mahindra. If you get a compact tractor make sure you get 4Wd because they are light and tend to get stuck easier when pushing dirt and such. No round bale lifting also if using a compact tractor. You must get a bigger one. I could lift a 600lb with my 3 point but don't because I use square. Would of loved to of gotten a Kubota, New Holland, or Deere. They were just to much money. Only used tractors around me are exactly that, used. Ton of mainentance work needed to be done. Parts for the high dollar tractors (Deere) aren't cheap either. |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 3802
Location: Rocky Mount N.C. | Here's a few shopping tools... http://www.tractorhouse.com/ http://www.fastline.com/ And this site, will give you some brief specifications on that special tractor!! http://www.tractordata.com/ |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 5870
Location: western PA | We have found a 25 hp diesel tractor to be the minimum size for our needs. We have moved countless tons of manure, many hundreds of tons of fill, gravel, sawdust and dirt, brush hogged, dug post holes and landscaped. We even dug the footer area for a house addition and cleared roads through the woods. It has moved furniture, firewood, transplanted trees, pulled engines out of cars, moved large landscaping rocks too big to lift, and generally been the best, four wheel drive wheel barrow a person could want. The loader is the main reason we bought our first compact tractor, and continues to be about 90% of its usage. We kept our first Kubota for 29 years, and upgraded to a 30 hp hydrostatic machine two years ago. We currently own three various Kubota diesel products, and found them to be the best combination of features, performance and value. I would rate JD next above all of the rest of the compact tractors. We didn't shop for price, we wanted performance, reliability, features, versatility and dealer support if necessary. Buying on price alone can be expensive in the long run. Purchasing the right machine first and owning it a long time, is much less expensive than constant changes and upgrades. If your are going to brush hog five acres, a 17 hp machine won't easily power a 5 ft brush hog mower. If you are planning on moving a lot of mud and dirt, a 4' bucket will not carry much material at a time, nor be able to lift it very high while loaded. Four wheel drive is mandatory with loader work and greatly increases the capabilities of the tractor. The payments for a good machine, verses a barely acceptable machine, amortized over the payment period, is relatively small when you consider the amount of additional chores it will do, and the labours it will save. You should purchase a machine based on what you anticipate you will need. Add about 25% to that for the size to buy. Once you own your new tractor, you will be amazed at what it can do for you, and will constantly want it to do more. Gard |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 3802
Location: Rocky Mount N.C. | If you buy a tractor with a loader, you may want to invest in a 4-in-1 bucket. I did and will never regret doing so!! I purchaced from this man W.R. Long in Tarboro N.C. They will custom build about any bucket you can imagine. They custom built mine to fit my Ford/NH 3930 with a 7310 loader....I believe the model number is "HJ 72" http://www.wrlonginc.com/ Here's another one that builds 4-in-1 buckets, etc. http://www.calmfg.com/index.html AND, a used tractor, loader with 4-in-1 bucket ready to go!! http://cgi.ebay.com/2004-TC55-4X4-WITH-LOADER-4N1-BUCKET_W0QQitemZ140223819879QQihZ004QQcategoryZ91953QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Edited by retento 2008-04-13 2:57 PM
|
|
| |
|
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 500
Location: West TN | I can see your apprehension with not wanting a larger tractor. The school I teach at has a farm with two JD tractors. One is a 2355 which is roughly a 55hp tractor and the other is the smaller compact 4300. I train students in each class to operate the tractor. I always use the larger one for this purpose. Once you get a feel for the larger tractor, it is in most cases the one you will feel the most comfortable with. This tractor is an open cab model. We are able to cut, rake and bale hay with it. We push it to its limits at times with the baler though. I would rather spend money on a larger used tractor than one that is smaller yet newer. I agree with the others in that if you get a quality product, it will hold up over time. I think the Deere and Kubota will certainly fall into that category of quality. Our 2355 does not have the 4wd option on it and it makes putting out 1600lb rolls in the winter a challenge. In most cases, we have to have something attached on the rear to give us the added weight for traction. The one thing that I would also take into consideration is the type transmission that the unit has. Personally I would stay away from the hydrostats. I feel that you tend to lose some of the power with it. Best of luck in your search. |
|
| |
|
Veteran
Posts: 148
Location: columbia tn | i was just like you 3 years ago.. female never drove tractor horse person (of course) with 15 acres...so i started researching i ended up with a john deere 4310 32hp hydrostatic (no shifting gears easy to operate) 4wheel drive with a front end loader and a 5' bush hog..it was used had 200 hours on it so i ended up with a good deal for me anyway..;i dont use round bales i use square so im not picking up heavy things alot.. i do move manure scoop sand,sawdust spread gravel load the trailer hay rack with hay etc. before camping a tractor is wonderful its like having your own personal worker at your despense all the time..i dont think i would want one any smaller than mine now because i would personally not have a tractor without a front end loader now..they are just wonderful for so many things...i looked at kubota they are great tractors for sure probably a little better then jd but did not have any used and were quite a bit more...on the john deere website they have used equipment finder from dealers everywhere that might help you research some...now having my tractor 3 yrs,being female i personally would say by as big as you feel comfortable with if you want front end loader try to go with at least 30hp-40hp and with a tractor buy the best name brand you can afford...they are all going to be expensive when they break down regardless... happy shopping |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 2614
| I don't believe that Kubota is a better tractor than Deere,necessarily,I believe among the utility tractors that it is a comparable tractor but that is just my opinion,based on in this part of the country Deere reigns supreme as the tractors of choice.I know we never see any large field tractors other than Deere,Case ect.around here.we priced Kubota and found for the features we could buy a JD for less,and we knew what we were getting with it.It is a hydrostatic and operates just like our lawn mower.It was hard to get used to for me,because I kept trying to "clutch" it like I was on a big field tractor,and it was stalling out all time! |
|
| |
|
Elite Veteran
Posts: 714
Location: Minnesota | I farm so I use all sizes of tractors from the big 4-wheel drive 320 hp to an old International M that my wifes' grandfather bought before WWII. From experience, yes buy a bigger tractor than you think you need now, because after having it you will find more and more uses for it. Newer doesn't always mean better either. In January I traded my 1967 JD 3020 (67 hp) with a loader and Powershift. for a 1991 JD 2755 (90 hp) with the same size loader. The powershift was great because you could shift gears without the clutch. I needed mor hp because I use an 11 foot disc bine to cut hay and I was grossly underpowered with the 3020. I shopped for almost nine months with no brand loyalty but went with the JD for multiple reasons; 1) resale. I owned the 3020 for 14 years and got back exactly what I paid for it. 2) parts and service. You can get parts and service virtually anywhere, and actually JD parts aren't that expensive. 3) longevity. There are a lot more old John Deeres out there than anything else. Like horse trailers, you usually get what you pay for. |
|
| |
|
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 406
Location: Minneapolis, MN | If anybody here thinks that JD, Case, New Holland or any of the other US tractors manufacturers build their own compact utility tractors, they need to research more.Buy JD and you will get good support. I like my Kubota L2550 GST |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 2953
Location: North Carolina | Everyone should buy whatever equipment meets their needs. I will only relate my experience. I didn't set out to become a Deere Fleet. The first tractor was a 45 hp (smallest ag tractor made) I spoke to a lot of people with tractor experience in the area before I bought. I was a city boy turned suburbanite... suddenly with horse acreage. I WAS thinking compact tractor....With good advice, I came to the conclusion that a new AG tractor with FEL was the better decision for me in 1996. Then the chance to buy an 1985 model year commercial JD mower for the lawn. Last year a Full sized 1989 JD backhoe. Everything needs replacement parts... And it's not just the major items. Knobs... minor hardware too. These last purchases have been fully supported today! by JD with manuals, parts catalogs (even current parts on-line too), Dealer parts stock inventory, and SEVERAL dealers in the area. The various specialty (L&G, AG, Construction) dealers have not only been able to provide parts. But have been able to cross reference parts in their stock. (I got a lawn mower filter from the construction dealer. Saved me a trip across town for the same part price) I have been able to get parts overnite (at addition cost) or wait for regular weekly delivery. So ... My experience with Deere product support have been excellent. I say ...Consider product support in your purchase decision besides the initial price. An orphan machine is soon scrap metal. |
|
| |
|
Veteran
Posts: 243
Location: Maine | Reviewing the comments here, I would lean toward buying a JD or Kubota. However, finding one in this area that I can afford is becoming a challenge. I really need something soon, but can only realistically spend about $12K - The only JD or Kubotas around here are brand new, no one wants to part with their used ones. New, of course, is out of reach for me. Now, here's another question (and again, I apologize for hijacking this forum to discuss tractors, but you people really do know your stuff...and I trust and appreciate the advice given on this board...) - I have seen JD tractors advertised with Yanmar engines... so what's up with that? I can get a 30HP Yanmar with a bucket loader DELIVERED from TX for $12K - this would be a factory reconditioned one.... am I out of my mind to even consider this? |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 5870
Location: western PA | Barstow, Either JD or Kubota would do the job for you. I'm surprised that you are unable to find a good used unit in your area for 12k. Around here I would have my choice of many. JD compacts diesels and their large lawn tractors do not use JD motors. Their gas units commonly use Kawasaki motors and as you say, the diesels are made by Yanmar. Yanmar is a quality powerplant, long been sought after for marine propulsion, where reliability can literally mean life or death. Three decades ago when I bought my first compact tractor, there were Yanmar tractor dealers. Right now I would be hard pressed to name anyone still selling them. Having said that, I would not purchase a tractor of any brand from Texas, particularly sight unseen. Even if it is perfect, where would you get service and readily available parts? Any warranty would be almost worthless. Is there a Yanmar dealer near you? Have you looked in VT, Ct, MA or NH for tractors? They are all farming states, and I would think sources of used equipment. I did read that some New Englanders were going to NY dealerships to buy new Kubotas because of better deals. Kubota has a whole series of BX series. They are a subcompact series of tractors that are quite strong and versatile for their size. Landscapers, horse owners and large property owners have used them successfully for years. Their durability is proven by the many rental places that feature the Kubota brand. JD does not have a comparable product line. Used tractors of this type should also be within your budget. I was sorry to see the way your thread was hijacked. You started out wanting a 17hp machine and ended up being told, that only a tractor that could pull an eleven bottom plow or carry a 1600# bale of hay would suffice. One filled rear tire of those tractors, would weigh almost as much as your whole tractor. JD and Kubotas are good compacts; by far the most popular. But if they are not available, the other brands do the job as evidenced by their sales. tractorbynet.com has forums in which every brand is discussed by owners. You can quickly learn which are problematic and which are revered by their owners. Don't be quick to jump into a purchase. Keep looking and do your homework. The wrong tractor can be an expensive mistake. The right one can bring a lifetime of enjoyment. Gard |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 2953
Location: North Carolina | Originally written by barstow on 2008-04-15 4:47 AM can only realistically spend about $12K - The only JD or Kubotas around here are brand new, no one wants to part with their used ones. Means people are satisfied with these machines. As long as they're needed, they're held on to. Now, here's another question (and again, I apologize for hijacking this forum to discuss tractors, No need to apologize... tractors are horse trailer related. I've used a tractor to service the trailer. Besides, it's an interesting discussion. have seen JD tractors advertised with Yanmar engines... so what's up with that? Just like Dodge uses Cummins engines, Ford uses Navistar engines, GM uses an Isuzu design, JD uses small diesel engines from Yanmar. I can get a 30HP Yanmar with a bucket loader DELIVERED from TX for $12K - this would be a factory reconditioned one.... am I out of my mind to even consider this? Consider carefully on this one, These machines might be grey market. Imported without Yanmar authorization. I've read that Japanese tax laws encourage the rapid turn over of farm tractors. The Japanese farm culture is small acreage so these small tractors are very plentiful. Even with Yanmar authorization, you have to have a Yanmar dealer nearby for support. It is very hard to figure out which part you need without proper documentation. Parts that look alike may not be interchangeable. So if you are actually using the machine on a regular basis, be prepared to be without it for weeks while waiting for parts.
Edited by hosspuller 2008-04-15 10:52 AM
|
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 2953
Location: North Carolina | To follow up on something Gard said: (...and Retento too) There are lots of AG equipment resources. Check a publication called "Fastlines" It's devoted to farm machinery sales. That's how I found my first tractor at a great price. They have a web site >>> http://www.fastline.com/
Edited by hosspuller 2008-04-15 12:06 PM
|
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 3802
Location: Rocky Mount N.C. | Keep on looking! All the little "Deere" tractors are Yanmar, the entire tractor not just the engines. They have been since 1981 when the 650-1050 series came out. The newer "Deere" compact tractors are also Yanmar built machines. The 3120, 3320, 3520 and the 44hp 3720 are all Yanmar. |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 5870
Location: western PA |
Just found this at tractorhouse |
|
| |
O/T - Compact Tractor Question
