Go to this site ...    http://www.capitalford.com/used-inventory/used-inventory-iframe.htm?reset=InventoryListing     and type in stock #P25913   The area is near the top right.  The truck is a 2005 F450, 4x4 with less than 10,000 miles. Good looking body with air suspension on the rear. Tell me what ya'll think.

There's another, a 2006 F450 2x4, with a pickup bed. It's stock #P25392

I tried to find a way to just list the trucks, but my stupid is running a little deep today...

  I'm a little shy of the 6.0 also. A friend of mine bought a 2004 used F250 out of Texas with 120,000 miles on it. First trip up Black Mountain N.C., it started spewing anti-freeze and oil out of the radiator overflow..... That's right.. Anti-freeze and oil.  It was in the process of spitting out a head gasket, the oil cooler had let go and was filling the cooling system with oil and there's something to do with the EGR cooler down in the intake manifold that had cracked and also had to be replaced at the same time... So much for the good deal he found in Texas!!

  Everyone else around here have been pleased with their 6.0's. I think the early 2003's were the engines with the injector problems. My man that feeds for me when we're out of town has a 2005 F250 6.0 automatic with 160,000 mile on it and it's never had a wrench on it.

 I've never seen a truck bed like the one on the 2005 truck. I think that's what I like about it so much. Ya got plenty of storage area!! It looks like maybe there's a third fuel tank in the bed under the front compartment. It hard to tell from the picture.

 Still alot of money for a 4 year old truck. I guess "I NEED", to go take a look at it, it's only about 55 miles away.

Snickers was right on the money!! It's a Utility Bodywerks, Elite bed.  Here's some specs.

http://www.utilitybodywerks.com/Elite.htm

http://www.utilitybodywerks.com/FordOptions.htm

Lots of bad press about the 6.0, some with no problems, some with many. The new 6.4 is very complex and unproven. I'm glad I have the old 7.3 with lots of power and no problems.

Gard

You do not know me from adam.  You can here ALOT of stuff out here on the web, some good, some not, and some just plain bs.  I have lurked and read this forum for a good while.  I sell alot of trucks on this website.  I registered tonight to be able to add my two cents worth.  I have been customizing trucks for close to twenty years.  You can verify my resume at www.2Lcustomtrucks.com.  I am not adding to this thread to try to sell you ANYTHING.  I post on a couple of different RV sites and my opinions are popular (I think).  I build alot of trucks for high-end horse applications and am a contracted supplier for International and (made public as of April 1st, 2008) Freightliner.  My work has won awards at SEMA, Mid-America Truck Show, and the Great American Trucking Show.  With that said, if we can get somebody to loan us 10 bucks we can go to Whataburger to eat. 

DO NOT BUY A TRUCK WITH A 6.0L MOTOR.  The folks on this thread are telling you the honest truth.  You can not lower cubic displacement, raise RPMs and expect a motor to live.  Ford would have never quit this motor but were forced to change based on EPA requirements.  We will NOT accept a 6.0 Ford OF ANY KIND on trade without having it presold.  It has been rumored that Ford has experienced an 18% rate of buy-backs.  The truck in question is probably a factory buy-back.  You can never find out because it does not have to be disclosed to a retail purchaser.  You would have to get to the original owner and "most of the time" they are bound by the agreement they sign.  I do not care if the truck is 20,000.00.  They do not work.

Now, everyone will crawl out of the woodwork and flame me for my comments.  All of the Ford guys will come running to the rescue.  This mentality is simple because they have money sunk in one.  Period.  There are very clean low mileage, verifiable 450s out there with 7.3 motors that would be a perfect truck.  My personal email is wlong@wccs.net  ....I am listing my email ot prove that I am not hiding from ANY comments, good or bad....

Wayland Long, president

2L Custom Trucks...... Poolville, Texas..817 594 4333

The bed on ths truck is a lifesaver for short people like me.  I bought one because I was sick and tired of having to climb into the bed of my truck to retrieve everything.  With this bed I can reach what I want, I have plenty of storage, plenty of gas for those long trips, and can haul my four-wheeler without having to hook up a trailer.  What a god-send!

Marla

The Ford 6.0 has had it's share of problems. Especially the 2003 and 2004 trucks. I've had two 6.0L  A early 2003, The 1st month they were built and a 2006.  I put almost a 100,000 miles on the 2003 and I'm at 50,000 on the 2006.

The tranny went out on the 2003 within  30 days of when I bought it. They replaced it and I never had any more tranny problems. The 2003 had some small engine problems, the dealer replaced the ICP, the VGT reflashed the engine several time. Some of the reflashes caused more problems than they solved. Once I got the final reflash done, the truck ran fine. I never had any problems with the injectors or turbo.

My 2006 had two glow plug go out at 40,000. Other than that it's only seen the dealer for oil and tranny fluid changes.

My two 6.0L trucks have been good trucks. Just my 2 cents worth.

I think if people are Hot Roddin  the trucks, adding chips etc, they probably had more problems than others.  A kid who works for me and my neighbor both have Duramaxs. The neighbor took his in last year for injector problems, Sold it and bought a Dodge, swearing he'd never own another Duramax. The kid who works for me is using my Ford truck to tow his Chevy in tomorrow morning for injector problems. Both of these guys had chips and like to put their foot in them. Does that make the Duramax a bad engine, or just that people who screw with the  engines cause their own problems.

All makes have some flaws. Nobody has built the perfect truck yet. Go look, test drive, check the Oasis to see what problem if any are on record and take your chances. If you are still unsure, Buy a Freightliner Sport Truck.

Good friend of mines 05' F350 has been on the rollback 3 times with only 46,000 miles on it.  The latest thing is the alternator just dumped. His wife hates the truck and he is scared to tow with it too far away. Stuck egr valve, Blown headgasket= new longblock, EGR cooler and turbo, bad alternator. Make your own decision but you were cautioned on the 6.0. If i wouldn't have been caravaning with him when the motor let loose he would of been in big trouble. Hence, he kisses my truck everytime he see's it. LOL :)

Had a 99 7.3 powerstroke was a awesome truck sold it to my trainer he hauls horses all over europe with it , ive got a ranger diesel now and very pleased with it would still like a full size truck  but put off by all the bad press on the 6.0 are they realy that bad Oh and why havent Caterpillar come up with a suitable engine for one of the big three they would sell and sell surely  

To give you an example of reliablility between the 6.0 and 7.3L, I have 1997 with a 7.3L engine and got my first recall notice of any kind this week for a $15 part. In 11 years, my truck has never been to a Ford dealership for anything....stay away from the 6.0L...no matter how good a deal. A good deal doesn't help soothe the nerves when you have animals stranded on the side of the road in the middle of the night or on a 100 degree day.

2Lcustom,

 could not have said it any better!  The 6.0 is pure JUNK!  Major head casket problems, turbo trouble, but everything else is fine.....If you buy one make sure you pay the high bucks for the extended warranty and before you sign, READ EVERY WORD on the warranty papers!

Just buy a Dodge and be DONE with it!

2007 DODGE QUAD CAB cab-n-chassis 12-5k gvw with a CM hauler bed, firestone bags, 6.7 Cummins, 6 speed auto, exhaust brake!  Note much on fuel mileage, but pull my 07 Trails West 4 horse LQ (that is almost 17-k lbs. loaded) with NO PROBLEMS AT ALL!

The 7.3L Diesel was produced by Navistar for Ford.  The engine was also used in some of the baby International delivery trucks.  The motor that was produced for Ford was warranted by International, for Ford, for 100k miles.  Engine warranty on the 7.3 never cost ford a dime. 

Along comes the EPA and Ford is forced to swap.  They extended the time period for 1.5 years and ford just kept paying the fine, before the EPA forced them to switch.  Ford took over the assembly of that motor.  If you have a 7.3 it was produced in Indy or Tuscaloosa AL.  International builds the 6.0 for Ford also, but all they supply are the block, crank, and rods.  Heads, turbo, injection, etc is pure Ford subcontract and it is rumored the engine is produced in Pakistan and South America.  International does NOT warrant the 6.0 for ford, like they did the 7.3..The 7.3 was the second most successful powerplant in US history behind the small block Chevy.  International uses the 6.0 in the baby delivery trucks, produced in Indy and Tuscaloosa and they have less than 1% warranty claim.  The engine is called the VT 365.

A 7.3 does not have CAT injectors.  It has Bosch injectors, same as CAT.  CAT does not make injectors.  They may have some private labeled, but they do not produce an injector for a Navistar motor.

The answer is there is no answer.  With the newly established position that the DOT is taking across this country concerning weights, ALOT of things are going to change.  With the insurance companies pushing the states to let them out from under their obligations, in the event a truck has been loaded to exceed GVWR ALOT of things are going to change.  I have driven the new 2011 emission prototypes and it is a joke. 

Ratings are given on engines in laboratory settings.  Same as capacities.  The new low sulphur diesel does not even let a truck burn like a diesel is designed to.  It is not really even diesel anymore.  Diesel trucks today are nothing more than SUVs with dual wheels.  And anybody who has anything newer than a 2003 FOrd or a 2003 Dodge does not have one.  The most proven diesel on the market today is the GM/Isuzu.  Least amount of failure, most power, and that is not an opinion, that is an industry fact.  Unfortunately the public can not look internally at the manufacturers.  But what the American public doesn't know, is what makes them the American public.  And it is proven everyday by comments on the internet.     

2Lcustomtrucks...wow 2 posts and no flames......see when you give the straight skinny...everyone will back you...

Our Fire Department sent two back to FORD...and are now looking at Internationals...

The fact that Ford is dumping the 6.4L after 2 short years appears to be more than "gossip" and if it holds true, it will amount to more than a "hill of beans" to those who bought them. IMO, their customer's trucks will suffer from severe depreciation compared to comparable models.

There's a couple articles floating around about Ford's upcoming partnership with Peugot to build diesel engines. A "commercial" diesel is mentioned in the articles.

The 6.4L is not 2010 emmissions compliant. With Ford & IH's demise, one need only connect the dots to see that Ford is dropping the 6.4L after a whopping 2 year run, abandoning yet another red haired stepchild diesel, and moving to another new one in 2010.

Only thing that could save the 6.4L is if Ford & IH kiss & make up and do something to the 6.4 to make it pass 2010 regs. 

 

http://blogs.dieselpowermag.com/6201073/editorials/navistar-international-ford-64-liter-turbo-diesel-engine/index.html

http://blogs.dieselpowermag.com/6209903/diesel-news/navistar-claiming-ford-is-stealing-design-for-new-engine/index.html

http://www.dieselpowermag.com/news/0510dp_ford_peugeot_diesel_partnership/index.html

You want me to do all of your legwork on this financial transaction??

The biggest advantage that Ford has right now is mileage.  Because the odometer spins when you drag them behind a wrecker, helps increase percieved economy.  Gotta be careful no fuel leaks out while being towed.  Need all of the help that they can get. 

The engines are marked where they pass emmissions. 

Recieved our first Freightliner M2-112 this afternoon with the 450 HP Mercedes.  Built in North Carolina, with a Mercedes, er, Detroit diesel series 60, I meant a Mercedes built in Brasil, oh yeah I meant, North Carolina.  Who knows, who cares?  I'll bet it will outpull the 450 in question.

Bottom line is Peugot, Cummins, I dont care if it is a Briggs and Stratton.  When you are trying to operate on a 17.00 net profit per vehicle, you are already in trouble.  And you don't have to surf the chatrooms or be the head checker at WalMart to figure that one out....  

No one has said what will happen to Ford Superduty trucks in 2010.  It is all speculation. No one will know for at least another year and a little bit. Just my .02cts

Oh and whoever said the GM/Isuzu was the only proven diesel is hilarious. Far from the truth. If Ford would put a Navistar I-6 in the truck they would have a huge improvement. Same deal with the GM/Isuzu.

Spooler

It may be hilarious, but it is the truth.  As far as total reported percentage return to dealer for motor warranty.  It doesn't matter what motor ford goes to, it still is not going to work, as long as it has to pass current emmissions AND fit under the hood AND run on the low sulphur fuel. None of them are.  Have you folks noticed a drop in your economy since the switch to the new fuel? 

I sure appreciate the comment about the inline 6.  I have customized and handled a little over 2000 of them.  But "IF" is a pretty good sized word.

I mean we ought to all be driving Fords, they can stop a cargo plane with a half ton.

Wayland Long

www.2Lcustomtrucks.com 

2L, you are right again about the mileage mess!  My older 7.3's and even the older 5.9 CUMMINS get lower mileage when using the ULS... 

But put 20 gal. of the good stuff and the mileage and power really jumps up.  Too bad you can't by that at the pump....

2Lcustomtrucks

 I don't drive a Ford that's for sure. I sure don't think that GM/Isuzu is the best package.  Have they came a long way since first introduced, YES. Do they have more work to do, Yes. Is it the best truck, No. Reading stats off to me doesn't mean much. I can take any data you give me and make it look any way I want using my own formulas. Fact!! It's just like opinions. Everybody has one and I don't like getting into truck brand issues on a forum. It helps no one. The best advice I can give someone about buying a diesel truck is study the problems that are unique to everyone of them. Deciede how you are going to use it and what problems you think are acceptable to deal with.  Then buy what you want. All the big 3 are lacking in one way or another.

The only problem I am having with my Dodge is not having a mega cab in the cab-n-chassis model!  I wanted the better 6 speed auto and Dodge only has it in the C&C model.

GM 3500 would not hold the weight, does great with no load, but add almost 17-k lbs. and thats all she wrote.  Ford is not bad, I just WILL NOT BUY ANOTHER ONE unless they put the 7.3 back in them.

The trucks that 2L sells is what I need, but funds do not justify buying one yet!

Rockin TK - I have to disagree with you on the DMax. On my third since 2002. Loved all three. And each one has been better than the last. Had one that GM replaced the injectors under warranty. Other than that, no issues. And I am pulling 17-18,000 every time I am loaded up.

I am going to get beat on for the rest of what I say, but oh well...

As far as Dodge...great engine but in my opinion the rest of the truck will fall apart around it.

And Ford since the 7.3...

I wonder what Ford does to the 6.4 liter that it doesn't comply with the 2010 regs. International announced last fall that all their engines will be 2010 compliant, and without using the SCR technology, which looks like a real can of worms. SCR has to do with urea injection to reduce NOX- I believe I read that CAT and Cummins will use this in order to meet the 2010 requirements. 

I have heard the rumors about Ford and "their own" diesel engine in the near future, but so far, that's it- just rumors.

Wayland, good to see you posting here! 

Bill  

Glad to be here...Guys ya'll will NOT believe this but there is an inline Cat approx 7.8 litre that passes 2010 emissions without urea.  375 gross hp/720 gross ft,lbs...They were built for Ford exclusively to replace the 7.3.  I drove some unbranded test mules with this engine.  Ford paid a huge penalty to pass on this motor in mid 03, because the "average joe" thinks GM owns CAT.  Ford's sole reason for passing was the "perception" that they had to buy power from GM.  CAT diesel has long been associated with GM ownership.  Cost of "backout" was close to 120 million.

The reason Ford's 6.4 will not pass is because it is a Ford.  I told ya'll a page and a half ago that Ford buys the block crank and rods form Navistar.  Navistar wants out of the deal with Ford so bad they can't see straight.  Now, lets do some quick math.  Navistar builds power, Ford does not.  Ford needs to buy what International sells, and International wants to dump them.  How does that sound?  When a federal court judge has to ORDER you to sell something, you know there is trouble.  Mark Smith (head engineer), Donny Miller (purchsaing/procurement), Keith Snow (service parts marketing), Frank Raney (sales/marketing), John Wadden (vp) are all very close friends of mine who look good when 2L does good.  All are at least level 16 management with Navistar.  2L was instrumental in the XT line (CXT, RXT,MXT) and we do prototype work for Navistar on show trucks...  Ford is trying to pick up all of the gross they can, and that is why they are trying to do it themselves.  As I said in previous post, International warranted the 7.3 for Ford for 100k miles and do not warrant the 6.0 or 6.4 for one foot.  They sold Ford the 7.3 as a complete crated engine, water pump, turbo, and ALL.  Ford does not want to buy that way because the can outsource out of the US and make more money.  Has it ever dawned on ya'll that Ford has never done a recall on the 6.0?  Cheaper to try to hide it....

In my opinion, the reason we all see alot of Dodges are they happen to be around 10k cheaper than everybody else, pound for pound, option for option....Dodge credit has been looser the last 5 years and the Cummins motor holds up. Truck is built in Escabado, Mexico in the same plant as the M2.  Look at the line set sheet located behind the glove box.  (It is in Spanish)  Anybody who works or travels I35 in Texas sees them all the time coming out of Laredo....Class dismissed.

WaylandLong

www.2Lcustomtrucks.com                                                                                                                      

Retire? You obviously haven't seen my wife's closet

Tresvolt,  I never said the engine would not do the job!!!  The problem I had witht the 3500 or 1-ton is the ass end is too light to handle my load.  That is why I stated "LOADED"!  When unloaded or with small bumper pull trailer is was great, but with a 40' loaded Trails West 4 horse trailer (around 17-k or so loaded) was hook in the bed, it put the springs FLAT to start with, then installed firestone bags that help raise the rear, then it was like hauling a HUGE BARN DOOR!  Not just one GM, I have tried with 2 or 3 diff. 1-ton just to see if I have a sorry one.  Same story diff. truck! 

You are correct about the body trouble with "some" Dodge truck, but I have had a 03' with 50-k, 05 with 35-k (was a turd, major injector mess), and my new 07 and also loved all three, even the turd truck!  Most of the body issues was from people being HARD on there truck and NOT keeping the maintance up!  I am in the car buisness and buy older diesel truck everyday and have had some Dodge's with 3 and 400-k that would pass for a 50-k mile truck.  But also have some with right at 100-k miles that looked like 500-k!  So it is all in how someone takes care of it!  Same thing with Ford and GM! 

Ford accounted for 68% of Navistars U.S. sales, not sales.  They produce engines AND trucks in Western Europe, Eastern Europe, Australia, South Africa, etc.. Navistar has private labeled trucks and buses you and I have never heard of.  Did you not hear of how Navistar and CAT have been attempting to consolidate over the last year?  Why would you want to sell something to someone who is paying you slower and slower.  Does it not seem odd to you that Navistar just unveiled the big engines?  The DT570 that we have used in our medium duty for the last several years only missed clearing the 07/08 emmissions standards by 8%.  The 2009 Internationals (Maxxforce9) that I am building at my shop right now are barely different than the DT570, other than regeneration.  International is moving 92% of the buses in the WORLD right now.  They will survive without Ford.  The feds were not sure Ford would survive without them, case in point, they ordered them to sell to them. 

I did not read your link but it is probably some automotive site or something.  International is sueing Ford over the new 4.4 motor that Ford is attempting to put in a half-ton.  You don't reckon International might have their finger in the new GM suv/half-ton motor?  Wink, wink...It is all a chess match with these guys.

When International does not HAVE to "buy" the big bore power any longer from CAT or Cummins, do you reckon that will offset the loss of Ford?  International builds alot of trucks, globally.

As far as recall, I have not checked on internal engine recall, I wasn't really counting things like wiring harness'.  I'm talking about motors grenading at an idle, with 0 miles on them, coming off of the transport, and blowing up while being pulled into my shop.  Dang near cut 3 employees legs off.  I'm talking about trucks running down the road on a test drive and fire start coming out from under the dash, due to such a high pressure fuel system failing.  I'm talking about ford dealers who know how hard my wife and I haul to cuttings every weekend, and how hard we push product at those horse shows telling us NOT to sell these trucks to our friends.  I'm talking about trucks who "suck valves" at an idle and start running off of their own engine oil supply, and the piece of s#*t running off with itself at 4000 rpm .  There is nothing quite like rods coming thru the side of a block, inside your shop full of hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of product.

Wayland Long

www.2Lcustomtrucks.com      

RTK - My mistake. That is how I took what you wrote. I load mine heavy. Always. The 02 GM would flatten more than the 05 or 07. The 07 doesn't hardly move.

I won't disagree with you on the Dodges. Some of them hold up great. Most of them may hold up great. But same standard of care on mine...and the GMs have held up better. That is all I am saying. I didn't buy a truck with the intentions of having a rattle trap at 50K. If I didn't care about that...I would buy the Dodges.

I haven't had a 3rd gen Dodge. And I won't as long as my GMs keep performing as they should. It would have been the same with the Dodge. Dang thing was so noisy you almost had to put in ear plugs just to drive it. I wasn't going to take a chance on another one. UGLY? That is kind of funny. I guess what they say is true...beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

I got an 2001 Chevrolet 3500 dually. The most weight I've ever had in the bed was 4000# of fertilizer and the truck squatted to the point of being about level. It should be able to carry about 5000# with no problems. If your trailer was weighing 17000#, then how much of that was on the pin/ball? 5, 6, 7000#? A friend of mine has a F-350 dually, the first thing he did after hooking to his LQ trailer was add a pair of Firestone ride-rites. The trailer just mashed his truck. Backed my 2001 Chevrolet under it and the truck sat level. His GVW is 13000#, mine is 11400#. I guess his truck weighs 8000#, mine about 6400#. It just seemed like the F-350's rear springs were alot softer. Haven't had any dealings with the newer Dodges. I know my 1998 was on the "soft side".

 Now for the "UGLY". My 2001 Chevrolet ain't nothing to look at, the 2002's were pretty much the same truck. In 2003 they cross bred the GM-HD trucks with the Avalanche and got this cat eyed looking front end that I never did like until....... they came out with the 2008's!!! That front end looks like somethings A$$!! GM must have hired someone from Nissan to design that critter. The 2008's look bad enough for me, to now to take a liking to the 2003-2007.5 trucks. I must admit the GMC looks 1000% better that the Chevrolet, but that ain't saying much.

 NOW! The chassis and springs on all of the Chevrolet and GMC's are and have been the same since the 2001's came out. Even the new 2008's on the lot are on the same chassis as the 2001. SO! If you feel like the 03 will carry more than the 05 and the 07 rides better that the 04..... Then, it's all in your head and or your butt cause they're all the same chassis....No matter how ugly they are!!

 So far as the F450's I asked about when I started this thread.... Well, as heat cycles go, I'm no longer in heat for a new truck. I "crunched" the numbers and it didn't look good. Unless I held up a bank or a Wells Fargo truck, then that F450 won't going to happen. It did seem like a pretty good deal specially compaired to a new one. But my old 2001, 3500 8.1 BIG BLOCK gas, Allison equiped dually did just fine down to Jacksonville, Fl. and back. We'll have to see who become's president..... that may have alot to do with whether we get a new truck....Or food on the table!! A country of 300,000,000 people and this is all we got to pick from..... That's sad

Towfoo- my understanding is Navistar sued Ford to get them to pay for the 6.0 L engine- there was a disagreement between Ford and Navistar- Ford wanted Navistar to continue shipping engines- however as 2L said, Ford was not paying or slow paying or only partially paying Navistar.  As far as the smaller engine, Navistar developed and started building a smaller (V-4) diesel based in part on an agreement from Ford- Ford had plans to use that in the Explorer and F-150. Ford backed out on the agreement after the engines were in production.

Dang it!!! How am I supposed defend my trucks when I am laughing so hard???

I didn't say they were beautiful, I just don't think that they are ugly. I am with you on the cat eyed front, but then 08's? Come on now. My last one is a GMC. The other two were Chevrolets.

My old 02, which a buddy now owns, was squashed with 4800#'s of fertilizer. The 03 & 07 sit level with the same fertilizer.

I am with you on waiting to see who our next president is.

Not sure about how much weight is actually on the ball.  But the reason I went with the Dodge cab-n-chassie is the gvrw is 12,500lbs. instead of 10-k or 11-k, then the better 6 speed auto trans. and the factory exhaust brake is worth is weight in gold!  When I bought my truck the company that installed the bed forgot to hook up the brake control and the 1st time to hook up to my heavy trailer and hit the brakes (oh' hell no trailer brakes) but the exhaust brake did the job!  Yes, I agree I really need the M2 or International, but funds aren't there right now so I had to go with what I thought would work out best for me now!  Later I will be going to the heavy truck, because the mileage is going to stay about the same, but the cost of running the heavy truck will actually be cheaper in the long run.

2L can confirm that!

  LOL!! I was wondering when that was coming!! The IH dealer here at home keeps a full yard all the time.... Mostly with JB Hunt, Freightliners having Cummins warranty work done!!

  I worked at this same dealership when I got out of high school, from 1976-1982. Night shift truck shop foreman. Quit pulling wrenches there to go to work for the City of Rocky mount Fire Dept..... Wrenching on fire trucks. I'm still partial to IH trucks and farm equipment. I was raised on them here on the farm.