Please Assist me in Understanding Power for my Trailer
Mandi/Abby
Reg. Sep 2003
Posted 2008-01-17 8:51 AM (#74610)
Subject: Please Assist me in Understanding Power for my Trailer



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I had a friend come over last night who does conversion work on the side.

By the time he left, I was pretty confused about powering my trailer.

He said that basically I have to be plugged in to right anything aside from just lights. The only thing he can make work off the truck OR battery power is lights.

Is this correct?




He also mentioned wiring my LQ directly into my generator. What is this? Is there any advantage to this over just running a power cord between the two when I need it??
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Towfoo
Reg. Jan 2008
Posted 2008-01-17 9:27 AM (#74615 - in reply to #74610)
Subject: RE: Please Assist me in Understanding Power for my Trailer


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Depends on what accessories you want to use. You can run small electric coolers, fans, and most electronics like TV, computers etc off a 12 volt system, although a battery may run down pretty quick if you use a lot of these all at once. Air conditioners, refrigerators, high-watt blow dryers, electric heaters, etc will require AC. You can get RV refrigerators that run on propane and AC, then switch to which ever is available. Stoves of course can also run on propane.
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gard
Reg. Aug 2007
Posted 2008-01-17 9:46 AM (#74617 - in reply to #74610)
Subject: RE: Please Assist me in Understanding Power for my Trailer


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Most trailers with or without LQs use a battery as a power source for its lighting. Since it is not advisable to use your truck as a power source, your trailer usually has its own battery(s). Batteries have a limited amount of storage capacity. If used as a 12v power source, they can power small lights for a decent amount of time; several hours. If you were to add an inverter and try to power an ac appliance, its capacity would only be a few minutes of operating time. Some of your gas appliances are dc (battery) powered and once they are running do no use a large amount of electricity.

The second source of electricity is an outside ac furnished by a power cord. This powers air conditioners, microwaves etc. This source is also commonly used to charge the battery and when converted, sometimes also runs the 12 v lighting and accessories.

The trailer doesn't care what the source of ac power is, as long as it's a regulated voltage. Some needs such as computers require a more filtered voltage, but most appliances work well on a standard sine wave. Some generators get their voltages and frequencies through different methods, basically the more expensive units give a better result.

I don't know why your friend requires a direct generator connection other than to lessen line losses. I've been to many different venues where generators are commonly used remotely. They've been in truck beds, on hay racks, sitting beside the trailer or even mounted inside tack areas. They are used when there is no power available or when the show grounds charge an unreasonable amount to hook up. I see no reason why your power cord can't be plugged into your generator as long as you don't exceed its rated output. Many others do it on a daily basis.

BOL  Gard



Edited by gard 2008-01-17 9:49 AM
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Mandi/Abby
Reg. Sep 2003
Posted 2008-01-17 10:23 AM (#74620 - in reply to #74610)
Subject: RE: Please Assist me in Understanding Power for my Trailer



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He doesn't require direct connection to the generator. He just mentioned it. I told him I just wanted a plug and I would plug in with whatever source I choose (generator or electric plug).

So...I basically WILL need to be plugged in to run all the major stuff. The lights can run off the battery and they need to be the 12v type lights. If I am understanding correctly, the alternative is 110 lights and then I HAVE to be plugged in to use those as well?
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Mandi/Abby
Reg. Sep 2003
Posted 2008-01-17 10:24 AM (#74621 - in reply to #74610)
Subject: RE: Please Assist me in Understanding Power for my Trailer



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and this trailer is smaller so we are not using propane at all.
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CanadaRoper
Reg. Apr 2007
Posted 2008-01-17 10:25 AM (#74622 - in reply to #74610)
Subject: RE: Please Assist me in Understanding Power for my Trailer


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The nice thing about direct wiring your genset into your trailer is you have the option then of wiring a remote start in as well.

Nothing better on a cold morning than to be able to remote start the genset from inside the LQ and turning on the coffee pot. (According to the better half !!! I still have to go outside and feed and water)
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Hank
Reg. Sep 2007
Posted 2008-01-17 10:36 AM (#74623 - in reply to #74620)
Subject: RE: Please Assist me in Understanding Power for my Trailer


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Originally written by Mandi/Abby on 2008-01-17 10:23 AM

So...I basically WILL need to be plugged in to run all the major stuff.

Correct. 

Originally written by Mandi/Abby on 2008-01-17 10:23 AM

The lights can run off the battery and they need to be the 12v type lights. If I am understanding correctly, the alternative is 110 lights and then I HAVE to be plugged in to use those as well?

Correct.  Put in 12v lighting and a deep cycle battery.  Use the battery for the lights and the AC source for all else.

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flyinghfarm
Reg. Mar 2004
Posted 2008-01-17 12:17 PM (#74634 - in reply to #74610)
Subject: RE: Please Assist me in Understanding Power for my Trailer


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I agree, having the genset hardwired with interior remote start is the way to go.  Ours is set up with a female plug inside the door for the main power cord.  I leave my main power cord plugged into that receptacle, unless I need to plug into shore power, whereupon I unplug the cord inside the access trailer door, and pull the cord out and plub into the exterior post power etc.  Works easy and simple. 
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longearsrule
Reg. Apr 2006
Posted 2008-01-17 1:18 PM (#74637 - in reply to #74610)
Subject: RE: Please Assist me in Understanding Power for my Trailer



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I have my generator mounted in the back of my truck, so I just run the cord from the trailer to a plug on the inside of the bed. There is another plug that I plug another cord into for my remote start. It sure is nice not to have to go outside to crank it up. Didn't mount the generator in the trailer because it just took up to much storage space.
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Mandi/Abby
Reg. Sep 2003
Posted 2008-01-17 4:41 PM (#74644 - in reply to #74610)
Subject: RE: Please Assist me in Understanding Power for my Trailer



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I am planning on getting a generator with electric start. It's going to be mounted in my hayrack and I know that if I go with the "yank" start, I will eventually end up tumbling off the top of the trailer. I am HORRIBLE at starting those things.

Of course, I'm not seeing the real benefit (though I am sure there is one) with the comment made about "not having to go outside on a cold morning to start the generator". If it's that cold, wouldn't it already be running to operate whatever your heat source is???

 

I think I am going to go with 110 lights and then leave the one current light & switch that came with the trailer in place somehow. It operates off the truck battery. If I am somewhere and not plugged in, that light will be sufficient for me to do whatever it is that I need to do. Otherwise, I'll be plugged in and all the other lights and stuff will be working. Does this sound okay???

 

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gard
Reg. Aug 2007
Posted 2008-01-17 5:02 PM (#74647 - in reply to #74610)
Subject: RE: Please Assist me in Understanding Power for my Trailer


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It would be best that no lights in your trailer draw power from your truck battery. If you forget and leave them on, there is a possibility that your truck may not start.

Most generators have a limited gas supply and are not run continuously all night long to keep you warm. There is nothing more aggravating than trying to sleep at night with a neighbor who is running a generator. Buy and install an automotive type of muffler and you will have more friends.

BOL  Gard

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Longrider
Reg. Oct 2004
Posted 2008-01-18 7:10 AM (#74684 - in reply to #74647)
Subject: RE: Please Assist me in Understanding Power for my Trailer


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A lot of rides and campgrounds we go to have a quiet time 10:00 PM to 6:00 AM- NO GENERATORS ALLOWED TO BE RUNNING -
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Mandi/Abby
Reg. Sep 2003
Posted 2008-01-18 9:18 AM (#74691 - in reply to #74684)
Subject: RE: Please Assist me in Understanding Power for my Trailer



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Originally written by Longrider on 2008-01-18 7:10 AM

A lot of rides and campgrounds we go to have a quiet time 10:00 PM to 6:00 AM- NO GENERATORS ALLOWED TO BE RUNNING -

I have yet to go to a rodeo or barrel race with a quiet time.

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crowleysridgegirl
Reg. Apr 2005
Posted 2008-01-18 9:35 AM (#74692 - in reply to #74691)
Subject: RE: Please Assist me in Understanding Power for my Trailer


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A barrel race or show probably won't,but if you are in a STATE park or some such,the rules are usually that the generators go off about 10PM until 6AM.
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Hank
Reg. Sep 2007
Posted 2008-01-18 10:02 AM (#74694 - in reply to #74691)
Subject: RE: Please Assist me in Understanding Power for my Trailer


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Originally written by Mandi/Abby on 2008-01-18 9:18 AM

I have yet to go to a rodeo or barrel race with a quiet time.

This is true, but with a roof-mounted genset, you'll WANT to turn it off when you hit the rack.  Not to mention being a good neighbor to your fellow campers is always appreciated.

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Mandi/Abby
Reg. Sep 2003
Posted 2008-01-18 11:05 AM (#74706 - in reply to #74610)
Subject: RE: Please Assist me in Understanding Power for my Trailer



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Okay...more questions.

 

Can my water pump (and maybe water heater) run off 12v?? Just enough to at least wash my hands/face without needing the generator? Even better would be if I could take a shower without needing the gen.

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gard
Reg. Aug 2007
Posted 2008-01-18 11:07 AM (#74709 - in reply to #74610)
Subject: RE: Please Assist me in Understanding Power for my Trailer


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 Yes. Any 12v appliance can run off a 12v battery.
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Mandi/Abby
Reg. Sep 2003
Posted 2008-01-18 11:08 AM (#74711 - in reply to #74709)
Subject: RE: Please Assist me in Understanding Power for my Trailer



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Originally written by gard on 2008-01-18 11:07 AM

 Yes. Any 12v appliance can run off a 12v battery.

BUT will the batteries really have enough power to run a whole shower (5-7 minutes -  I'm quick).

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gard
Reg. Aug 2007
Posted 2008-01-18 11:10 AM (#74712 - in reply to #74610)
Subject: RE: Please Assist me in Understanding Power for my Trailer


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Yes. The water pump will cycle on and off. A charged battery could probably power just the pump for over an hour or so.
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greyhorse
Reg. Nov 2005
Posted 2008-01-18 11:15 AM (#74713 - in reply to #74610)
Subject: RE: Please Assist me in Understanding Power for my Trailer



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Your water heater is going to need propane, or you need to get one that runs off AC 120v so you would need to run the generator before and during any warm showers you will be taking.
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Mandi/Abby
Reg. Sep 2003
Posted 2008-01-18 11:17 AM (#74714 - in reply to #74713)
Subject: RE: Please Assist me in Understanding Power for my Trailer



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Originally written by greyhorse on 2008-01-18 11:15 AM

Your water heater is going to need propane, or you need to get one that runs off AC 120v so you would need to run the generator before and during any warm showers you will be taking.

We aren't doing propane so I guess it will be no showers without running the gen. I don't tolerate COLD showers too well (except in the middle of summer).

 

So to go with battery power, please add anything I have left off:

batteries

battery box

power converter thingy

 

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retento
Reg. Aug 2004
Posted 2008-01-18 11:27 AM (#74716 - in reply to #74610)
Subject: RE: Please Assist me in Understanding Power for my Trailer


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If you are not "doing" propane, then how are you going to heat your water? If you install an electric hot water heater, you'll need a hoss of a generator to run it. You'll burn more fuel in the generator than it would take to heat the water with propane. Gas hot water, gas stove, gas/120 volt refridgerator, gas grill..........12 volt lights, 120 volt microwave, 120 volt blender, 120 volt "IRON" and board, LOL!!
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Hank
Reg. Sep 2007
Posted 2008-01-18 11:32 AM (#74717 - in reply to #74714)
Subject: RE: Please Assist me in Understanding Power for my Trailer


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Originally written by Mandi/Abby on 2008-01-18 11:17 AM

We aren't doing propane so I guess it will be no showers without running the gen. I don't tolerate COLD showers too well (except in the middle of summer).

No propane means no hot shower.  What Retento says - serious amperage is needed to heat water with electricity. 

Shower in a can will be your friend.

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gard
Reg. Aug 2007
Posted 2008-01-18 11:39 AM (#74720 - in reply to #74610)
Subject: RE: Please Assist me in Understanding Power for my Trailer


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To install an electrical system in your trailer, will involve many components and a knowledge of ac/dc electricity is necessary. After that is completed, you will then have to know about and have the necessary components to install a water system. If you want hot water you will need a 110 V power source or propane. It can't be done on 12 v alone.

It would take many pages and hours of typing to describe all that is involved. I would recommend that you go to your LQ  installer, tell him what you want/need and have him build a system for you. What you want and need to do is not a matter of simply connecting a terminal to a wire. You will want a finished product that is both functional and reliable.

Gard

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Towfoo
Reg. Jan 2008
Posted 2008-01-18 11:41 AM (#74722 - in reply to #74610)
Subject: RE: Please Assist me in Understanding Power for my Trailer


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This might help. There's even a used one for fifty cents plus shipping.

http://www.amazon.com/RVing-Basics-Bill-Moeller/dp/0070427798/ref=p...
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Hank
Reg. Sep 2007
Posted 2008-01-18 11:50 AM (#74724 - in reply to #74610)
Subject: RE: Please Assist me in Understanding Power for my Trailer


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Wait a sec...I just had an

How's about this:

http://www.amazon.com/Coleman-Water-Demand-Portable-Heater/dp/B0009PURE0



Edited by Hank 2008-01-18 11:52 AM
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Mandi/Abby
Reg. Sep 2003
Posted 2008-01-19 8:15 AM (#74783 - in reply to #74720)
Subject: RE: Please Assist me in Understanding Power for my Trailer



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I do not believe I have to have propane to operate a water heater.

As of now,my plans are for the fridge, microwave, TV and water heater to be 110. My lights and water pump will be 12v.

http://www.pplmotorhomes.com/parts/rv-water-heaters/rheem-water-heaters.htm

This one doesn't appear to use any more power than my hair dryer. Not too big of a deal to turn AC off when I want a HOT shower...usually only worry about the water being hot when I'm FREEZING and therefore the AC won't be on anyhow:  http://www.globaltownewarehouse.com/cgi-bin/shopper?preadd=action&key=ARISGL6&reference=/cgi-bin/shopper%3Fsearch%3Daction%26keywords%3Dariston+%26searchstart%3D0%26template%3DTemplates/SearchResult.html

 

 

I have a friend who is an electrician who is familiar with the 12v system and if we decide to do things on our own, he will do that part of the work for us. Otherwise, whatever other individual I choose to do the conversion will be educated on it, I'm sure.

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HWBar
Reg. Nov 2005
Posted 2008-01-19 8:49 AM (#74785 - in reply to #74610)
Subject: RE: Please Assist me in Understanding Power for my Trailer



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First off let me say, I'm assuming you know everything. But you sure are making a 4' shortwall complicated. Look at the size difference in the water heater you are considering vs. a propane one. Might want to consider the recovery time with the AC model also. You may think 30-45 minutes with no air is not a problem, but I have been to Texas and 30 minutes with the air off will equate to 2 hours cooling the trailer back down.

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retento
Reg. Aug 2004
Posted 2008-01-19 9:04 AM (#74790 - in reply to #74610)
Subject: RE: Please Assist me in Understanding Power for my Trailer


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 I have a 8 gallon 120 volt, 1500 watt, water heater and it takes about 2 hours to bring 56 degree water up to 145 degrees. How long would it take propane to recover? 20 minutes?.. Maybe?
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HWBar
Reg. Nov 2005
Posted 2008-01-19 9:17 AM (#74794 - in reply to #74790)
Subject: RE: Please Assist me in Understanding Power for my Trailer



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Originally written by retento on 2008-01-19 9:04 AM

 I have a 8 gallon 120 volt, 1500 watt, water heater and it takes about 2 hours to bring 56 degree water up to 145 degrees. How long would it take propane to recover? 20 minutes?.. Maybe?

 

 

 

It's really less than 20 minutes.
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Towfoo
Reg. Jan 2008
Posted 2008-01-19 9:39 AM (#74800 - in reply to #74610)
Subject: RE: Please Assist me in Understanding Power for my Trailer


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Those tankless propane water heaters look interesting. Wonder if they really work.
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gard
Reg. Aug 2007
Posted 2008-01-19 2:11 PM (#74825 - in reply to #74783)
Subject: RE: Please Assist me in Understanding Power for my Trailer


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Originally written by Mandi/Abby on 2008-01-19 9:15 AM

I do not believe I have to have propane to operate a water heater.

As of now,my plans are for the fridge, microwave, TV and water heater to be 110. My lights and water pump will be 12v.

If you plan on adding an electric hot water heater and hair dryer to your 110 v list, you have far exceeded the capacity of any 30 amp plug and service.

You should read the book previously suggested to get a better idea of how things work in a camper, and what is needed to run them.

BOL  Gard

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Mandi/Abby
Reg. Sep 2003
Posted 2008-01-20 7:53 PM (#74901 - in reply to #74825)
Subject: RE: Please Assist me in Understanding Power for my Trailer



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Originally written by gard on 2008-01-19 2:11 PM

 

If you plan on adding an electric hot water heater and hair dryer to your 110 v list, you have far exceeded the capacity of any 30 amp plug and service.

You should read the book previously suggested to get a better idea of how things work in a camper, and what is needed to run them.

BOL  Gard

No plans to add hair dryer. I don't use one in my home except on RARE occasions so I really don't think I'll need one elsewhere.

If an electric water heater is such a PIA or bad idea, why have all the conversion companies I have rec'd quotes from for this particular trailer, planned on using one???

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Mandi/Abby
Reg. Sep 2003
Posted 2008-01-20 7:55 PM (#74902 - in reply to #74785)
Subject: RE: Please Assist me in Understanding Power for my Trailer



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Originally written by HWBar on 2008-01-19 8:49 AM

You may think 30-45 minutes with no air is not a problem, but I have been to Texas and 30 minutes with the air off will equate to 2 hours cooling the trailer back down.

As I believe I stated elsewhere on this thread, in the summer, TO ME, hot water is not much of an issue. Cold showers are better for your body physiologically (internally and externally) and even at home, I take them VERY cold in the summer months (and often take 2-3/day). The only time I am worried about HOT water is during the winter and I will not have my AC running at that time (no heat strip).

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classygirl98
Reg. Jan 2005
Posted 2008-01-20 10:57 PM (#74916 - in reply to #74610)
Subject: RE: Please Assist me in Understanding Power for my Trailer


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Towfoo, our friend put one of those tankless water heaters in his trailer this past year. He loves it. When he builds his new lq, he is going to put one them in it too.
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Terri
Reg. Jan 2004
Posted 2008-01-21 1:50 PM (#74962 - in reply to #74901)
Subject: RE: Please Assist me in Understanding Power for my Trailer



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If an electric water heater is such a PIA or bad idea, why have all the conversion companies I have rec'd quotes from for this particular trailer, planned on using one???

Maybe because it's what easiest for them. 

 In our camper we have the dual water heater.  Gas or electric.  We rarely use the electric setting because it is so slow to heat up.  We turn on the gas 10 minutes before we want to take a shower and need just a couple of minutes between showers to keep it hot.  When we used it on electric it took almost an hour to get hot and then we had to wait a good 30 minutes between showers for the next person to have a hot shower.


 

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Duckman
Reg. Oct 2004
Posted 2008-01-21 5:29 PM (#74995 - in reply to #74610)
Subject: RE: Please Assist me in Understanding Power for my Trailer


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Mandy, I've been reading your ongoing questions about doing an LQ/wiring, etc. I strongly suggest you find a reputable LQ company/individual to do your conversion. I believe you'll be a lot safer and resale will be alot stronger if done by qualified people.
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Mandi/Abby
Reg. Sep 2003
Posted 2008-01-21 5:59 PM (#74999 - in reply to #74610)
Subject: RE: Please Assist me in Understanding Power for my Trailer



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I'm sure everyone who has built their own LQ had to start somewhere.

Have I asked anything that makes me look obviously stupid?

 

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