springs vs air bags
brlrcer7
Reg. Sep 2007
Posted 2007-10-01 8:27 PM (#68700)
Subject: springs vs air bags


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Need to get something to help my Nissan out, what do you think?
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Maximizer
Reg. May 2007
Posted 2007-10-01 9:21 PM (#68702 - in reply to #68700)
Subject: RE: springs vs air bags


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There is no help for a Nissan! 

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chadsalt
Reg. Nov 2004
Posted 2007-10-01 9:22 PM (#68703 - in reply to #68700)
Subject: RE: springs vs air bags


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timbrens?
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brlrcer7
Reg. Sep 2007
Posted 2007-10-01 9:33 PM (#68704 - in reply to #68700)
Subject: RE: springs vs air bags


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awww I love my nissan!

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reinergirl
Reg. Feb 2007
Posted 2007-10-02 8:22 AM (#68721 - in reply to #68700)
Subject: RE: springs vs air bags



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I added a leaf to the standard springs & an additional helper spring to my Ford F-350 to haul my 3 horse/15' shortwall Elite LQ. I chose springs over the airbags because I live in NE OH and I had been told the salt/road chemicals will tear up the airbags. It's worked out great and I haven't had a problem.
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headhunter
Reg. Oct 2004
Posted 2007-10-02 6:36 PM (#68750 - in reply to #68721)
Subject: RE: springs vs air bags



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If it wasn't for the salt issue, which would you recommend and why?

Originally written by reinergirl on 2007-10-02 6:22 AM

I added a leaf to the standard springs & an additional helper spring to my Ford F-350 to haul my 3 horse/15' shortwall Elite LQ. I chose springs over the airbags because I live in NE OH and I had been told the salt/road chemicals will tear up the airbags. It's worked out great and I haven't had a problem.

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cowboyscash
Reg. Mar 2006
Posted 2007-10-02 11:33 PM (#68760 - in reply to #68700)
Subject: RE: springs vs air bags


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What model Nissan?
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PaulChristenson
Reg. Jan 2007
Posted 2007-10-03 2:09 AM (#68762 - in reply to #68700)
Subject: RE: springs vs air bags


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Originally written by brlrcer7 on 2007-10-01 9:27 PM

Need to get something to help my Nissan out, what do you think?

 What kind of trailer and which Nissan?

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ntcowgirl
Reg. Aug 2007
Posted 2007-10-03 9:07 AM (#68766 - in reply to #68700)
Subject: RE: springs vs air bags



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Did you notice a change in your ride with the springs? We're going to be adding either springs or air bags but hubby says he thinks the springs will make the ride too rough????
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reinergirl
Reg. Feb 2007
Posted 2007-10-03 9:09 AM (#68768 - in reply to #68750)
Subject: RE: springs vs air bags



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If it wasn't for the salt issue, which would you recommend and why?

Since I don't drive my truck, except to haul a trailer, I would probably stick with the springs because I don't have to worry about a leak in a airbag or the compressor not working correctly. And when I unhook the trailer, there really is no difference in the ride. Just is a simpler solution for a very unmechanical girl!

 

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brlrcer7
Reg. Sep 2007
Posted 2007-10-04 9:11 PM (#68850 - in reply to #68700)
Subject: RE: springs vs air bags


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sorry ya'll, its a titan shortbed (uggh) but its what i have for now and a 18ft hart 3 horse gn. Weighs a little too much, looking for new truck but keep this as possible back up for me to drive.(so if I want to take the trailer ... I can!) S whats the best bang for the buck will springs even me up to where its not weighing down so much, or will the air bags be dificult ? Just need some imput need to choose soon! Thanks!
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PaulChristenson
Reg. Jan 2007
Posted 2007-10-04 9:21 PM (#68852 - in reply to #68850)
Subject: RE: springs vs air bags


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Originally written by brlrcer7 on 2007-10-04 10:11 PM

sorry ya'll, its a titan shortbed (uggh) but its what i have for now and a 18ft hart 3 horse gn. Weighs a little too much, looking for new truck but keep this as possible back up for me to drive.(so if I want to take the trailer ... I can!) S whats the best bang for the buck will springs even me up to where its not weighing down so much, or will the air bags be dificult ? Just need some imput need to choose soon! Thanks!

A quick stopgap...  http://www.mrtruck.net/springs.htm

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trailridngal
Reg. Feb 2004
Posted 2007-10-05 11:42 AM (#68865 - in reply to #68700)
Subject: RE: springs vs air bags


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I don't have a Nissan.. I just added Air Lift Air Bags to my 99 F350 and boy do I love the way it rides now! I have owned the truck for two years..and it pretty much rode like a lumber wagon. I have yet to pull my trailer since I had the air bags installed... but am sure it will be a smoother ride as well. I have an 05 3H Featherlite with an LQ.. the leaf springs on the truck needed more support with this trailer hooked up. I wish I would have thought to add the air bags 2 yrs ago. I really like them.
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galsgottaride
Reg. May 2007
Posted 2007-10-07 2:09 PM (#68942 - in reply to #68865)
Subject: RE: springs vs air bags


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Mega dittos to trailridingal! I too have a '99 F-350 DRW and pull a '07 Bison, 10' LQ, 3-H and L0000VE my air bags! Made a major difference, rides great and I simply push my little button to raise or lower...sweet. I went back and forth between adding a spring leaf or bags and am really happy with my choice...cost is more, but I feel it is worth it. However, friends did add the leaf and are fine with that. The air bags are about double in price, so that could make the decision for you.
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headhunter
Reg. Oct 2004
Posted 2008-03-21 3:19 PM (#80062 - in reply to #68700)
Subject: RE: springs vs air bags



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Re-activating this thread because I am thinking about adding either an additional spring or Timbrens.  My truck does not sit level with the trailer hooked up.  So, opinions on either choice or other suggestions would be appreciated.

Super Springs http://www.mrtruck.net/springs.htm

or

Timbrens http://www.timbren.com/

My truck's only job is to pull the trailer so I care far more about optimal towing performance than about ride quality when the truck is empty.

 



Edited by headhunter 2008-03-21 3:23 PM
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dawnb
Reg. Aug 2007
Posted 2008-03-21 3:36 PM (#80066 - in reply to #68700)
Subject: RE: springs vs air bags


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Ok someone tell me why airbags and salt on the roads don't mix?
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st_pinetree
Reg. Dec 2005
Posted 2008-03-21 3:41 PM (#80068 - in reply to #68700)
Subject: RE: springs vs air bags



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A lot of folks knock the Timbrens, but I am using them on my Chevy 2500 HD, and I don't have any complaints. Air bags are probably smoother when under load but the Timbrens are simple, cheap, and effective. I've hauled many thousands of miles with them and would buy them again.
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CurlyRidingcowboy
Reg. Aug 2007
Posted 2008-03-21 3:42 PM (#80069 - in reply to #68700)
Subject: RE: springs vs air bags


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I work for a company that manufacturers adjustable leveling kits/ Alignment products and we have installed the timbren kit on a few vehciles and have had really good luck even in Minnesota. My wifes cousin had a timbren on his F350 till he switched trucks last week and it really helped his truck with hauling his gooseneck shoeing trailer and his Featherlight 4 horse big horses yet did not affect his ride. (His Shoeing trailer was squating the truck before first farrier I knew that needed living quarters in his trailer) He went with that kit cause he did not have to ad air ever. I know I have heard from our sister company who sells the Airbag kits is the airlines get corrided and tend to leak. This is just my opinion and why I am not putting any of the companies I work for's names on here.
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gard
Reg. Aug 2007
Posted 2008-03-21 4:02 PM (#80071 - in reply to #68700)
Subject: RE: springs vs air bags


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Definitely like the Timbrens. No maintenance, no mechanical parts, no leaking air systems. Original ride is unchanged, almost 6k pounds additional lift. Many years of usage, no problems at all. Would not change.

Gard

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rcctac
Reg. Mar 2008
Posted 2008-03-21 7:14 PM (#80084 - in reply to #68700)
Subject: RE: springs vs air bags


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you should check out supersprings they are an overload spring that does not affect your ride when you are not loaded

http://www.supersprings.com/

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headhunter
Reg. Oct 2004
Posted 2008-03-21 7:22 PM (#80087 - in reply to #68700)
Subject: RE: springs vs air bags



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Anybody familiar with both springs and Timbrens and can discuss pros and cons of each?
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genebob
Reg. Nov 2007
Posted 2008-03-21 8:10 PM (#80088 - in reply to #68700)
Subject: RE: springs vs air bags


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I still don't understand the problem with salt and air bags. Could someone please explain?
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retento
Reg. Aug 2004
Posted 2008-03-22 5:04 AM (#80103 - in reply to #68700)
Subject: RE: springs vs air bags


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genebob... I think someone's talking about the salt corroding the airlines and the fittings to the point that they start seeping and leaking air. If nylon lines and brass fitting were used, I don't see where you would ever have any problems with "salt".
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Painted Horse
Reg. May 2005
Posted 2008-03-22 6:20 AM (#80104 - in reply to #68700)
Subject: RE: springs vs air bags



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I've had the Firestone air bags on my truck for the last 2 years. I've not had any problems with them. I don't put much air in them. I keep them at 16-18 psi.
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Towfoo
Reg. Jan 2008
Posted 2008-03-22 6:29 AM (#80105 - in reply to #80087)
Subject: RE: springs vs air bags


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Originally written by headhunter on 2008-03-21 7:22 PM

Anybody familiar with both springs and Timbrens and can discuss pros and cons of each?


The main advantage of Timbrens over springs is that they do nothing until your truck sees a load, whereas the springs alter the ride loaded or unloaded. The Timbrens are like heavy duty rubber bumpers. Of course, if your truck already rides like a chuck wagon, the extra stiffness of springs really isn't going to matter that much.

The main advantage of airbags over both Timbrens and springs is that airbags are infinitely variable and can be adjusted to the load. With airbags, you can literally level the load, which you can't do with springs or Timbrens. On the down side, they cost more than springs/TImbrens, installation is more complicated and they can leak or even pop. Springs and Timbrens are basically maintenance free. Install em and forget em.

Different towing needs will require different solutions. If you tow the same load all the time and have just a little sag, springs or Timbrens might be all you need. If you tow different trailers or a wide variety of loads, airbags would be more useful. That's why commercial truckers use airbags.

If you're after ride quality for you and your horses, consider something like this:

http://www.airsafehitch.com/goosenecks/index.cfm

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horsey1
Reg. Dec 2004
Posted 2008-03-22 9:22 AM (#80111 - in reply to #68700)
Subject: RE: springs vs air bags


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Super Springs don't affect the unloaded ride. The end shackles are loose until a load is applied. Easy to install, no maintenance, they work. What more to say? The Timbrens work, but are basically a rubber bump stop. Load truck- truck sits on rubber column with no more suspension give.
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gard
Reg. Aug 2007
Posted 2008-03-22 9:44 AM (#80113 - in reply to #68700)
Subject: RE: springs vs air bags


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There are different ways to alter the load capacity of your truck. They have all been mentioned in these threads, How they are used and installed will greatly affect the over all performance of your truck.


Your truck's suspension is the culmination of countless hours of engineering, computer wizardry and practical on the road experience. Manufacturers have spent millions of dollars in research, to provide a vehicle that offers the best compromise in ride and load capabilities. And it is just that, a compromise. One conclusion is not the best for everyone's needs.


A suspension has many functions, it has to carry the weight if the vehicle and occupants, provide a pliable platform of varying loads, and allow the tires to remain in contact with the road, regardless of irregularities of the surface.


Trucks typically have a set of springs that provide a variable rate depending on the load. An initial stack supports the truck under an empty or lightly loaded rate. Auxiliary or a secondary stack springs offer additional support as heavy loads are applied.


If additional springs are added to the primary stack, the handling of the vehicle can be adversely affected. This is usually not attempted unless these springs are worn or broken. If additional leaves are added here to increase the load capacity of the truck, they will stiffen the rear suspension. In an unloaded state, the resulting rear suspension can be stiff enough to be effectively without a suspension. With little or no suspension travel, any bump, or rut could literally bounce the rear tires off the pavement. The active suspension and abs would be rendered useless, braking would be severely compromised, and you would have a dangerous, uncomfortable truck to drive.


The overload springs are what should be modified. These are only involved when heavy loads are applied to the suspension. The point where they are activated vary by the weight capacity of your truck. Usually a deflection of four or five inches will be involved. This is the distance your initial suspension travel has to work in day to day driving. By adding varying amount of springs to this secondary stack, your load carrying capacity will increase. There are many companies that offer varying amounts of springs for this purpose.


Air bags and Timbrens are not added to the springs. They are added between the axle and frame. The air bags supplement the original suspension, adding to its capacity as increasing amounts of air pressure are added to the bags. This is accomplished by manual applications using a supplementary air hose, or more complex systems that offer stand alone load leveling systems, with on board compressors, limit switches and all the necessary plumbing.


Timbrens are basically a supplement to the truck's original axle bumper, that prevents the axle from slamming into the frame when it is severely deflected. A Timbren is a hard rubber cylindrical structure that keeps the axle and frame at a predetermined distance. With my truck's secondary springs, the "helpers" just start to aid when enough of a load is applied to make the truck"squat" four or five inches. The Timbrens are installed so that they also touch the suspension components at the same time.


The result is that the initial factory suspension is unchanged, and a normal unweighted ride is effected. When additional weights are added, the suspension will no longer deflect, unlike air bags or overload springs. This result will continue regardless of any additional loading. The only exceptions are two: a structural failure of the suspension components caused by a gross overloading; the failure of the tires caused by the same overloading.


All of these components, the springs, air bags and Timbrens are time tested components. If installed correctly, they will all aid in increasing the load capacity of your truck, greatly increasing its capabilities and handling while loaded.


BOL  Gard



Edited by gard 2008-03-22 9:45 AM
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genebob
Reg. Nov 2007
Posted 2008-03-22 10:28 AM (#80118 - in reply to #68700)
Subject: RE: springs vs air bags


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Thanks retento. I just wanted clarification from the earlier post. Gard- well written and very informative. Kind of "all I ever wanted to know" type of post. I put airbags on my 01 F350 last fall and have yet to pull my trailer more than a few miles beforestoring it for the winter. Am anxious to get it out and really try it. Haven't even been able to ride around the yard yet this year because of the snow, ice and cold.
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st_pinetree
Reg. Dec 2005
Posted 2008-03-22 10:35 AM (#80121 - in reply to #80111)
Subject: RE: springs vs air bags



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Timbrens aren't exactly a rubber bump stop.  They are actually a rubber spring of sort, they do have give and "spring" in them even under load.  Granted not as much as overload springs would.  I put them on because of cost and simplicity a year ago.  I was half expecting to have to send them back.  But even with a large amount of pin weight on my truck, I am satisfied with the ride.  Would an adjustable air ride be better?  Yes.  But in my opinion, not enough to justify the extra expense, maintenance, etc that comes with them.  I know of several folks that have the air springs, and every one of them says if you go that way, get the on board compressor so you can adjust on the fly.  My BIL has the airbags w/o the compressor, and his truck is virtually inotolerable to ride in empty unless you let the air down in the bags when done towing.  The on board compressor would make this a simple task, but its an expensive add on.  FWIW
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genebob
Reg. Nov 2007
Posted 2008-03-22 10:48 AM (#80124 - in reply to #68700)
Subject: RE: springs vs air bags


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pinetree- my eyes aren't so good. What kind of trailer is that? Almost looks like mine.
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CurlyRidingcowboy
Reg. Aug 2007
Posted 2008-03-22 11:41 AM (#80128 - in reply to #68700)
Subject: RE: springs vs air bags


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Springs, airbags, and Timbren kits can all help a suspension but you still need to make sure you have enough truck to do the job. Many people on this forum are talking about F350's or other heavy duty trucks. Trucks that have 10ply high load rated tires, larger brakes, Heavy duty transmissions.

No matter what you do with the suspension you must still make sure all the other compenents of your truck can handle what you are pulling both by acceleration and stopping to get your horses there safely.
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st_pinetree
Reg. Dec 2005
Posted 2008-03-22 1:43 PM (#80137 - in reply to #80124)
Subject: RE: springs vs air bags



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Originally written by genebob on 2008-03-22 9:48 AM

pinetree- my eyes aren't so good. What kind of trailer is that? Almost looks like mine.

It's a Logan Aluminum XT with an 8' LQ.  Four horse.

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genebob
Reg. Nov 2007
Posted 2008-03-22 3:11 PM (#80141 - in reply to #68700)
Subject: RE: springs vs air bags


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Mine is a Featherlite 4H with 6' shortwall LQ. Black skin.
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