natural horse trim
stablemom
Reg. Jun 2007
Posted 2007-08-30 8:38 PM (#66878)
Subject: natural horse trim


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Are any of you out there having your horses trimmed this way? I have been doing some research on this and it is looking very favorable, especially for my navicular horse. I have tried everything else, herbs, supplements, different farriors, etc... and altho there have been times when the horse was more comfortable, she is not doing very well at the present. I hear that the mustang roll is very helpful for the navicular horse. Any info. or opinions on this subject would be appreciated.
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Rich M.
Reg. Sep 2005
Posted 2007-08-30 8:51 PM (#66880 - in reply to #66878)
Subject: RE: natural horse trim


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Think he's off now ?. Just wait till some " natural " trimmer gets ahold of those hooves. Anything / anybody that touts " natural" is full of crap. www.horseshoes.com
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hounddog
Reg. Dec 2005
Posted 2007-08-31 1:02 AM (#66890 - in reply to #66878)
Subject: RE: natural horse trim


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Heard the same thing from several differant sources.Mentioned it to farrier I use and got one of those strange quiet smiles.His idea of a natural trim is to do it only IF needed and if conditions are good leave them alone.

Edited by hounddog 2007-08-31 1:04 AM
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Dunoir
Reg. Sep 2005
Posted 2007-08-31 7:21 AM (#66893 - in reply to #66878)
Subject: RE: natural horse trim


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I have used a barefoot trimmer for the past two years and am a firm believer in it.  I have ridden my horse on 10 day camping trips over all kinds of terrain (though we don't have the kind of rocks in Fla that are in other areas) and never a problem.  Quite a few people in the trail riding club I'm in have switched and all approve of it.

     I do NOT advocate the Strasser method - that is way too harsh - but Pete Ramey's barefoot trim allows the foot to be natural, more like a mustang wears theirs down.

   One 17 year olds mare in the club developed navicular in 3 feet - she pulled the shoes, switched to the natural trim, does use boots on the front feet when she rides - the mare has been sound for the past couple of years and is ridden steadily.  she firmly believes the natural trim has allowed her to have a much better life. 

   anolder horse at the barn had foundered a couple years ago - had shoes, pads, etc and his feet still looked horrible - she switched to my farrier and the first trim made a dramatic difference - by the second trim all signs of the founder were gone. His stride has improved and he walks faster out on rides.

   Its competition for traditional farriers so of course they don't approve.  If you compare the frogs of a horse that is trimmed with a barefoot trim verses shoes - you will see an incrediable difference. 

Read more about the subject, be informed and make your own choice. 

 

 

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Rich M.
Reg. Sep 2005
Posted 2007-08-31 10:04 AM (#66906 - in reply to #66878)
Subject: RE: natural horse trim


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"Traditional" farriers are more than happy to have a book full of barefoot horses. There is nothing " natural" about any human interaction with horses. The decision to have an unshod horse rests solely with the comfort and ability of the horse to perform his duty, nothing to do with what humans " like" or " want" or see fit. Horses are individuals and shod be trimmed and / or shod accordingingly. NOT sculpted into what someone envisions should be it's " natural" model. Rich
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Ike
Reg. Jun 2005
Posted 2007-08-31 11:51 AM (#66913 - in reply to #66906)
Subject: RE: natural horse trim



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Originally written by Rich M. on 2007-08-31 1:04 AM

"Traditional" farriers are more than happy to have a book full of barefoot horses. There is nothing " natural" about any human interaction with horses. The decision to have an unshod horse rests solely with the comfort and ability of the horse to perform his duty, nothing to do with what humans " like" or " want" or see fit. Horses are individuals and shod be trimmed and / or shod accordingingly. NOT sculpted into what someone envisions should be it's " natural" model. Rich

 

Exactly!  We tried the "Natural Trim"....works ok, but found out what my original farrier said to be true, there is only one way to trim a horse and that is to balance that individual horse....might be a bit different for each horse....one of mine does better with shoes....the others are barefoot.
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rose
Reg. Feb 2004
Posted 2007-08-31 12:53 PM (#66919 - in reply to #66878)
Subject: RE: natural horse trim




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Dare anyone to take a "natural trim" horse to South Dakota or Wyoming
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Dunoir
Reg. Sep 2005
Posted 2007-08-31 1:15 PM (#66923 - in reply to #66878)
Subject: RE: natural horse trim


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Actually there was a thread on here of an indivdual that rides on really heavy duty rocks and all his horse's were barefoot. 

I have seen great results and will continue to have my horse's feet trimmed this way. I did use a "traditional farrier" at first and before I was even riding my horse, just on turnout in the pasture, his feet chipped, peeled, etc within a week of the trimming.  Now after 5 weeks of riding, his feet are smooth, no chips, cracks, etc. 

If I take my horse north to ride, I would bring boots, but I won't put shoes on. The barefoot trim is gaining popularity, it won't appeal to everyone, and that's fine.  There are a thousand opinions out there and in the end, we all have the right to choose what we feel works best for our horse and us.  I for one try to be open minded....

 

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hounddog
Reg. Dec 2005
Posted 2007-08-31 1:51 PM (#66928 - in reply to #66878)
Subject: RE: natural horse trim


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Heck lots of us have been doing the BAREFOOT trim for years.We just never paid extra for it or called it that.I've got some mares that haven't needed a BAREFOOT trim in a few years and their hooves and angles are great.I try to keep a open mind but its hard sometimes.We have a Farrier school near Rome Georgia that uses the term Brotherhood of Working Farriers.He spends LOTS of time going over how to get as much $ from each and every animal with your OWN charts/graphs and scores for front,back,corner of each hoof etc.His students leave their and don't know squat about forge work,angles,hoof issues etc.But this SCHOOL has a big following,endorsed by the state of Georgia unemployment job training and some other programs.He EVEN has a TV show.His students stink when it comes to working under a horse.Another words GIMMICKS.Had a neighbor go to that school three months.Beged me to try him.I used him to trim 6 head once and shoe 1 on the Front(shoes were on crooked after).Took ALL day.Wore ME out and wanted like $50.00 bucks a horse,did their very own charts etc.I said NEVER again.Went back to my 60 odd year old farrier that years ago went to a school in Texas and is a semi pro roper.He trims 6 and shoes one on the front from 8 to 12 and the trims are $25 each and the front only is $65.PLUS he does my WEANLINGS free(hits them with a file and is good with little ones.)But NO charts?No graphs,no issues eaither. His rope horses are usually barefoot all year and that includes working and catching hard to catch cattle several afternoons a week on them.

Edited by hounddog 2007-08-31 1:53 PM
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Dunoir
Reg. Sep 2005
Posted 2007-08-31 3:03 PM (#66932 - in reply to #66878)
Subject: RE: natural horse trim


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Hey Houndog - guess I'm hijacking the thread, but I noticed you breed SSH horses.  I just bought a 5 year old gelding to trail ride and camp and found out he's pretty nicely bred to boot. 

grandson of Alen's Lethal Weapon on the dam's side and Paint's Handshaker on the sire's side. 

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hounddog
Reg. Dec 2005
Posted 2007-08-31 3:15 PM (#66934 - in reply to #66878)
Subject: RE: natural horse trim


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Yep sure do.Mine are also TWHBEA. I did not breed anything to anything this year.I came down with Leukemia in March and have spent  a total of 8 weeks at Emory University.Have another 4 weeks and a stem cell transplant in front of me.Sold one Tobi Twh stallion,two mares,two qtr 2 year olds etc.One going Sunday to Va.Can't leave the wife with these animals if anything happens to me.Its been hard enough already.
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Dunoir
Reg. Sep 2005
Posted 2007-08-31 3:47 PM (#66938 - in reply to #66878)
Subject: RE: natural horse trim


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sorry to hear about your illness and I sincerly hope the stem cell transplant goes well. 

Edited by Dunoir 2007-08-31 3:48 PM
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stablemom
Reg. Jun 2007
Posted 2007-08-31 4:13 PM (#66940 - in reply to #66878)
Subject: RE: natural horse trim


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May God bless you hounddog! I am the one who started this post and I have to agree with Dunoir. Sometimes we need an open mind. All I know is that I have tried 3 different farriors and no one has helped this horse out.I have also done everything that the vet has suggested and this horse is too young to be dealing with all this pain. I am definitely going to give it a try because the next step is to have her nerved and that is a last resort!! I have the name of a guy that used to be a regular farrior for years and he has gone to this type of trimming and seen amazing results. I have 7 horses total and I will continue to put shoes on some of those. They have no trouble with having shoes, however this mare's conformation is such, that the regular farrior trim and shoeing are not working for her. Thanks for all the input. Everyone has to decide on their own what they feel is best for their own animals, but I will keep you posted!
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SLICKRNSNOT
Reg. May 2006
Posted 2007-08-31 6:42 PM (#66953 - in reply to #66878)
Subject: RE: natural horse trim



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I trim My own horses,barefoot.All I do is let nature take its course and I trim off any excess and a little rasp.My horses walk on rocks and ruff terrain and do just fine.If things get too baad I put Old Macs on and away we go.

photo

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hounddog
Reg. Dec 2005
Posted 2007-08-31 6:54 PM (#66955 - in reply to #66878)
Subject: RE: natural horse trim


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With folks he knows real well farrier I use suggests the same thing.He's not a big fan of shoes if not needed or cutting the foot every so many weeks if not needed.P.S.THANKS for the kind words!
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NorCal
Reg. Aug 2007
Posted 2007-08-31 6:59 PM (#66957 - in reply to #66878)
Subject: RE: natural horse trim


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I think you will find people at the far side of each case here.  The Strasser method is too extreme.  We had some folks up here coming around with seminars on barefoot horses and all that happened were horror stories of haveing lame horses from trimming too slose and no sole.  Reading Pete Ramey (Mustang Roll) I see potential, but it is something that takes a long time to achieve and still may not work.  I believe a lot of the method of barefoot depends on the horse and what kind of feet they have to begin with.  In the Pacific Northwest, if you have crumbly feet or tender soles, you almost have to be shod to do the mountains.  The fellow from Oregon said it best - if you go barefoot, take a set of Ol' Mac's just in case.  My friend rides his mare barefoot, using the mustang Roll, and swears by it.  At the same time, it took several years to get her feet in condition to do it though.  Me, I shoe the horses and go from there.
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albert
Reg. Jul 2004
Posted 2007-08-31 8:10 PM (#66964 - in reply to #66878)
Subject: RE: natural horse trim


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we just got into horse's about 4 years ago. Our first horse was diagnosed with Navicular about a year and a half ago. we first tried the corrective shoe's, 3 different types and no lasting results. then we heard about the natural hoof trim and had a natural hoof farrier trim him. I then took a course on it and now do all 3 horse's myself. The horse with Navicular is coming around slowly. I think this is in part because I was leaving the heal to high. I now am being more aggresive with the heal and he seems to be improving. He no longer points his toe and keeps both legs straight under him. I have been doing some light riding on him and he doesn't show any sign of lameness when we are finished. Not for everyone but I think it is becoming more popular, I would give it a try but you have to be patient, it will take sometime to see any results. And if you mean by a Mustang roll to really roll the front toe I have been doing that on all my horse's with no ill effects. Never had any problems with the health guys and the Navicular horse doesn't show any sign of pain. Since I am pretty new to keeping horse's I alway try and use the common sense approach, horse weren't born with shoes so I can't image they need them. It's just the way we keep them that give them problems.Hope this helps but on this subject there are two deverse schools of thought so you just have to see for yourself and see what works for you. As for nerveing I coundn't bring myself to do that to a horse, but that's just me of course. good luck

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rose
Reg. Feb 2004
Posted 2007-08-31 8:14 PM (#66967 - in reply to #66878)
Subject: RE: natural horse trim




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Hounddog:  So very sorry to hear of your illness.  I too hope for success with the stem cells.  Will keep you in my prayers.

Edited by rose 2007-08-31 8:16 PM
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huntseat
Reg. Oct 2003
Posted 2007-08-31 8:41 PM (#66968 - in reply to #66878)
Subject: RE: natural horse trim


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Hounddog, Two people in my family beat cancer...so can you!

I remember back when we just called it shod or barefoot.  I think "natural/corrective trimming" is a pile of crap.  You trim a to return balance to the hoof, then either slap a shoe on it or drop it back in the dirt to run barefoot.  A good trim job is a good trim job shoes or not!

I've got a natural way to trim the hoof.  Tie all your horses to the bumper of your truck and drive out to a nice flat surface road.  Speed-up to around 15 MPH then throw a plastic bag out of the window and pull your foot off the accelerator.  Allowing the horses to slam on the brakes and wear their hooves down exactly level with how they use them sounds pretty natural to me...

*If you angrily respond to this scenario you should know it's a sign you need a margarita and a vacation*

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Yvette
Reg. Jul 2006
Posted 2007-08-31 11:49 PM (#66974 - in reply to #66953)
Subject: RE: natural horse trim



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Originally written by SLICKRNSNOT on 2007-08-31 6:42 PM

I trim My own horses,barefoot.All I do is let nature take its course and I trim off any excess and a little rasp.My horses walk on rocks and ruff terrain and do just fine.If things get too baad I put Old Macs on and away we go.

photo





Really, if you go with the horses natural angles your horse will be sound. Imagine that. I'm with you there, I think people think too much about how they can improve on something that doesn't need to be improved on.

Much as I prefer a shoer to sweat under my horses, I've been reduced to doing my own (for better or worst) for several reasons:

1: finding a reliable shoer that actually answers their phone or responds to messages to be damn near impossible.

2: finding a reliable shoer that doesn't want to make $100 an hour to do trims. Ya know if they were full time, would be one thing, but most are doing this as a part time gig on their way home. Sigh, I do miss the $12 trim.

3: finding a reliable shoer that shows up when and on what day they were supposed to in the first place, seems to be as abundant as the Mammoth.

I've never ever stiffed a shoer and make sure my horses are sprayed with fly spray when necessary and turn them out for a bit, if they haven't already been out before the shoer gets there.

In looking for a shoer, since my last one started having back problems, not related to my horses, I talked to one shoer he was like, great we'll get your horses on he other horses schedule (I had no problem with that). I introduced them to my horses, was upfront with their quirks, picked up their feet in front of him. He was like, they look good to me. He gave me his card. I called him. I called him again. I called him again. Never, ever called me back. I'm pretty well fed up with shoers right now. Hopefully, I won't do too much damage to my ponees, but better than not doing them at all.

Oh and actually the shock value from the I've been to a couple of clinics so I'm now an expert on everything person nearly freaked when she asked me if I'd found a shoer and I said yeah. She said who? I said ME! LOL Priceless.
BTW, I've done my research and I'm very attentive to wear patterns and the horses natural angles. They are barefoot. I wouldn't dare put a shoe on a horse, but barefoot... Even my Vet during my quest for someone else to sweat under my horse, kept saying, why don't you do it yourself, I know you can? I love him, he sometimes has more confidence in me, than I do.
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Yvette
Reg. Jul 2006
Posted 2007-08-31 11:51 PM (#66975 - in reply to #66968)
Subject: RE: natural horse trim



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Originally written by huntseat on 2007-08-31 8:41 PM

Hounddog, Two people in my family beat cancer...so can you!

I remember back when we just called it shod or barefoot.  I think "natural/corrective trimming" is a pile of crap.  You trim a to return balance to the hoof, then either slap a shoe on it or drop it back in the dirt to run barefoot.  A good trim job is a good trim job shoes or not!

I've got a natural way to trim the hoof.  Tie all your horses to the bumper of your truck and drive out to a nice flat surface road.  Speed-up to around 15 MPH then throw a plastic bag out of the window and pull your foot off the accelerator.  Allowing the horses to slam on the brakes and wear their hooves down exactly level with how they use them sounds pretty natural to me...

*If you angrily respond to this scenario you should know it's a sign you need a margarita and a vacation*

 

Cool!

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RoperChick
Reg. Dec 2005
Posted 2007-09-02 1:08 AM (#67013 - in reply to #66878)
Subject: RE: natural horse trim



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Houndog,

Very sorry to hear about your illness, you'll be in my prayers.

Beth

 

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hounddog
Reg. Dec 2005
Posted 2007-09-02 6:17 AM (#67014 - in reply to #66878)
Subject: RE: natural horse trim


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Thanks for the kind words and prayers.David. 
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Amos
Reg. Feb 2006
Posted 2007-09-04 12:05 AM (#67112 - in reply to #66878)
Subject: RE: natural horse trim


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Hounddog,
You will be in my prayers, and I hope all goes well for you. Please keep us all posted on your progress.

Amos
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Painted Horse
Reg. May 2005
Posted 2007-09-04 5:07 AM (#67114 - in reply to #66878)
Subject: RE: natural horse trim



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I;m in Utah and I ride a lot in Wyoming. I took my horses barefoot last year. So they have not had shoes since November of 2005.  My farrier (who's been shoeing for 25 years) suggested I give it a try.  My horses back feet are all doing great.  I still need to "Boot" front feet on serious trail rides in rocks.

None of my horses had any hoof problems prior to to going barefoot. So I'm not doing this because I'm trying to correct navicular or founder.Just trying to see if it offers the horse a healthier way.

It will depend a lot on the type of rocks/terrain you ride. Arena horses should be fine riding in sand. Unless you are trying to do some sliding stops that need a sliding shoe.

Hard rock, granite, slate with lots of cobble and you will need boots.

Sandstone I seem to do just fine with out the boots.

Last may I rode this black colt 13 miles on Friday and 22 miles on Saturday with out any boots in the above sandstone and his hooves looked great. He kept up with all the rest of the horses and showed no sign of being sore.

Rode for two days last March putting ribbons up for a CTR ride. Took 4 horses  with my daughters.  The lady we were helping put the ribbons up for, said no way your horses will make through one day let alone two days of riding barefoot.  She trains foxtrotters and was amazed that mine didn't miss a beat.

But their are trails where my horses slow right down and spend so much time watching where they put their feet, if I don't boot them, that it's no fun to ride. It just depends on the type of rock, how sharp the edges are and the size of the cobble laying in the trail.

I can go anywhere if I put boots on the front hooves.  So why do it?  It has not saved me any money. I trim every 4 weeks instead of shoe every 8 weeks. I pay $25 for a trim vs $60 for a shoe job.  Any savings on farrier visits and a lot more gets spent on Easy Boots. I have to spend an extra 5 minutes putting boots on prior to hard trail rides. My horses feet look better now than they ever have. My farrier just raves about how good looking they are.

I may or may not stay barefoot next summer.  We see how the horses do on the first few hard trail rides next year when they have been barefoot the magically two years.

I spent this past weekend Big Horn Sheep hunting in Southern Utah. I saw lots of wild mustangs running across some awful rough stuff. And they are all barefoot.

 

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Gone
Reg. May 2005
Posted 2007-09-04 7:18 AM (#67119 - in reply to #66878)
Subject: RE: natural horse trim


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Beautiful pictures!
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hounddog
Reg. Dec 2005
Posted 2007-09-04 4:16 PM (#67160 - in reply to #66878)
Subject: RE: natural horse trim


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I'll second that.I've never been in country like that.Want to badly!!!
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Painted Horse
Reg. May 2005
Posted 2007-09-04 4:34 PM (#67162 - in reply to #67160)
Subject: RE: natural horse trim



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Well buyyourself a bargin plane ticket and come ride one of my horses. I got a couple foxtrotters that need a good lesson in gaiting.

I'll gladly take you for several rides as trade for a lesson or two.

 

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hounddog
Reg. Dec 2005
Posted 2007-09-04 4:53 PM (#67163 - in reply to #66878)
Subject: RE: natural horse trim


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I'm heading back to the hospital on the 11th.Will be getting a 6 day round of chemo that will be 8 to 10 times stronger then anything so far.Then I'm getting my frozen stems cells back that were collected last month.They say I will be hospital bound 25 to 35 days! Yep days! Then maybe I'll see about plane fair to somewhere far removedLOL.

Edited by hounddog 2007-09-04 5:50 PM
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stablemom
Reg. Jun 2007
Posted 2007-09-04 5:47 PM (#67164 - in reply to #66878)
Subject: RE: natural horse trim


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I will be praying for you hounddog!! Keep the FAITH!!!
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Terri
Reg. Jan 2004
Posted 2007-09-04 11:29 PM (#67197 - in reply to #67114)
Subject: RE: natural horse trim



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Wonderful pictures.  I've kept my horses barefoot for years and only put shoes on when we are planning on riding over rough ground.  I just bought boots for my horses and since we don't usually plan our rides(we just get out and go) we put them on before every ride.  I think over the long haul it will be cheaper than shoes.  $20 to trim compared to $70 for shoes will even out well before the boots are worn out and need to be replaced. 
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Terri
Reg. Jan 2004
Posted 2007-09-04 11:32 PM (#67198 - in reply to #67163)
Subject: RE: natural horse trim



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Sorry to hear your ill.  My cousin had lukemia and did well on the treatments. 

Were pulling for ya.

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