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Location: Gig Harbor, Washington | I've just purchased a 200l GMC w/duramax and allison tranny 3:73 rear end...it pulls my '06 all -aluminum 3 horse like theres no tomorrow..question is we're looking to get into a gooseneck with living quarters..I noticed that most seem to be pulled with duallys..is this because its so tough to find heavily enough rated tires for those of us without duallys? How much weight can I realistically handle without going to a dually.... |
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Veteran
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Location: columbia tn | not really sure about the weight issue,all i know is i had a 02 4x4 dodge 2500 diesel bought a 05 cimmeron norstar 3h 10'shortwall lq..before we bought it we hooked this trailer up from the dealer and took it out 30 min or so.. the 2500 pulled it ok you really knew it was back there and it did lower the rear end alotttt to the point i felt it needed some help back there of some sorts and this 2500 had extra springs heavy duty towing pkg..on it..so i traded the 2500 and got a new 3500 a wk later and it made a huge difference (which i knew it would) it feels alotttt more stable and sets right on the truck. (downside... having to drive the truck (dually) sometime around when not towing i have another truck i bought new in 93 but its a dodge dually also so that does not help the sitiation..also there is two more tires to have to replace from time to time which is not a huge issue for me i tow with this mostly only put about 15000 a yr on it.. so there is good with the bad... the only other thing with the 2500 it did not have the towing mirrors on it was going to have to do something about that could not see anything behind me at all..hope this helps you some happy trails.... |
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Member
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Location: waverly, tn 37185 | IMO, a dually will give you more stability when towing a larger load. I had a Ford F250, 4X4, single rear axle. I used to pull 2 horse bumper-pulls and then graduated to a 2 horse straight load, 4Ft short wall finished LQ GN. The Ford was fantastic. However, I have since gone to a 4HR, 8ft Short Wall LQ Sundowner, and it didn't feel stable at all. In fact, going down-hill, I felt the trailer pushing me. I now have a Dodge 3500 4x4 dually and I feel so much at ease. I guess it depends on your own peace of mind. Yeah, my Ford did pull this current trailer, but I was white-knuckled, and nervous pulling with it. Now I can just go along, and be excited about the next trail ride/camping trip I am head for! Good luck! 
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Regular
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| A DRW truck is good for two different reasons...
1) Stability. The two extra wheels provide for greater sway control. You won't be all over the road (unless of course your trailer is way too big for your truck anyway).
2) Tongue weight. A DRW truck can handle a greater tongue weight than a SRW truck, period. |
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Expert
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| Stability, capacity, buoyancy.
OK, if you needed to ask the question you probably need an explanation of "buoyancy".
Assuming you trailer to SOMEWHERE to actually RIDE, you will often find your truck "off road", i.e. not on a paved parking lot.
The duallie has a better ability to "float" that heavily loaded rear axle over muck and wet spots (vs cutting ruts while stationary).
It also has narrower front tires, which reduces the probability of hydroplaning at any given speed.
If you deduce from this that I am not a phat tire enthusiast - You Gottit ! |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 544
Location: Claxton, Ga. | The main reason you see people pulling LQ trailers with dually's is because of the pin weight, ability to carry the load, and stability. The pin weight is the weight the rear axle and tires have to support and LQ trailers are heavy. |
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Elite Veteran
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Location: Odenville, Alabama | It's all about STABILITY! I pulled a Bison 3 horse 12'shortwall Lq 8'wide with a GMC 2500HD Allison. I had to put Super Springs on the back of the truck to make it sit level with the trailer. The truck pulled o.k. although you ALWAYS knew you had that big trailer behind you. We always felt as if we were being "pushed" down some of the mountains around here. That trailer was so much wider than the truck. Although I LOVED that truck (I won't have an ugly truck), I traded for a GMC 3500 Dually. My husband was skeptical. But what a BIG difference! I now feel like my truck/trailer is one unit instead of truck & trailer. If you can understand what I mean by that statement. I think if my trailer was only 7' wide, I'd have felt o.k. about the 2500. That extra width makes a difference without those "big hips" on a dually |
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Location: West Coast | Originally written by N2ridin on 2007-04-03 10:03 AM It's all about STABILITY! I pulled a Bison 3 horse 12'shortwall Lq 8'wide with a GMC 2500HD Allison. I had to put Super Springs on the back of the truck to make it sit level with the trailer. The truck pulled o.k. although you ALWAYS knew you had that big trailer behind you. We always felt as if we were being "pushed" down some of the mountains around here. That trailer was so much wider than the truck. Although I LOVED that truck (I won't have an ugly truck), I traded for a GMC 3500 Dually. My husband was skeptical. But what a BIG difference! I now feel like my truck/trailer is one unit instead of truck & trailer. If you can understand what I mean by that statement. I think if my trailer was only 7' wide, I'd have felt o.k. about the 2500. That extra width makes a difference without those "big hips" on a dually The Dually will be very much more stable, especially in high winds. I think N2Ridin described it best, the truck and trailer will feel like one unit. Our SRW truck pulls the trailer fine, but suspension wise, the dually doesn't even know the trailer is there.
Edited by RoperChick 2007-04-03 4:59 PM
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Member
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Location: Gobles, MI | Stability is the word of the day. But it is true. My father used to lecture me on moving up to a dually and now I cannot agree more. Not only does it help while driving, it helps in stopping. I came over a hill last summer on a country road with a load of horses and there was an accident blocking the road. I had about 50 ft to stop a load of 3 horses in a 3 horse steel trailer with midtack, and 10ft LQ.W Driving a 1 ton older Ford dually. Trailer brakes burning and truck brake mashed to floor I stopped WITHOUT JACK KNIFING my rig. I won't haul these big trailers without a dually anymore. Even after graduating to an aluminum trailer. |
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Expert
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Location: Vermont | 50ft??? Total Braking Distance = Perception Distance + Reaction Distance + Brake Lag Distance + Braking Distance... Since the best reaction is 3/4 of a second reaction time...at 40 mph you would be traveling at 58.66ft/sec...the distance you would travel before applying your brakes would be 44 ft Then your braking distance would be depending on your truck and trailer total weight... |
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Location: Vermont | Originally written by CurlyGuy on 2007-04-03 1:18 AM
I've just purchased a 200l GMC w/duramax and allison tranny 3:73 rear end...it pulls my '06 all -aluminum 3 horse like theres no tomorrow..question is we're looking to get into a gooseneck with living quarters..I noticed that most seem to be pulled with duallys..is this because its so tough to find heavily enough rated tires for those of us without duallys? How much weight can I realistically handle without going to a dually.... http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FullTests/articleId=46349 Lifted from above review... Of course, the main point of all this heavy-duty hardware is to facilitate towing. And best-in-class trailer-tow ratings were the goal for GM engineers. They accomplished that goal as, depending on configuration, the Silverado equipped with the base 6.0-liter engine will tow from 9,200 up to 10,500 pounds with its standard 4.10 rearend gear ratio.
Stepping up to the Vortec 8100 motor with either 3.73 or 4.10 gears (our tester had 4.10s) nets an impressive 12,000-pound towing capacity for all configurations, regardless of cab style or bed length. The diesel is rated to tow the same amount in all configurations with its standard 3.73 rear axle ratio.
With a Fifth Wheel trailer, the numbers go even higher; our truck would be able to tow a 15,500-pound trailer of this type. That rating goes down 2,000 pounds with the taller 3.73 ratio. The truck with the highest Fifth-Wheel towing-capacity honors goes to a regular-cab long-bed Silverado 2500 HD with the Vortec 8100 engine and 4.10 gears. It'll tow a whopping 15,900 pounds — more than any of the one-ton trucks or even any of the diesels. |
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Location: North Carolina | Originally written by PaulChristenson on 2007-04-03 8:13 PM ... The truck with the highest Fifth-Wheel towing-capacity honors goes to a regular-cab long-bed Silverado 2500 HD with the Vortec 8100 engine and 4.10 gears. It'll tow a whopping 15,900 pounds — more than any of the one-ton trucks or even any of the diesels... The above quote is very misleading. Unless one knew from whence that rating was derived, It seems to say the 3/4 truck can handle more trailer than a dually. When we're speaking of Horse trailers... that is a "crock-o-that which promotes plant growth" For those that are saying Hosspuller has finally hit the crock: look at the Gross Combined Vehicle Weight Rating as published by GM. Then look at the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating of each model of truck. . . . The overlooked facter is the weight of the truck. The 3/4 ton truck is the lightest while the GCVWR is the same. So while the most weight can be towed by the 2500 truck, it can't handle the hitch weight of the 14' short wall LQ 4H trailer with the ceramic tile floor. And the 2500 shimmies like a hula dancer... Dually is the better choice. |
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| Originally written by PaulChristenson on 2007-04-03 9:08 PM
50ft??? Total Braking Distance = Perception Distance + Reaction Distance + Brake Lag Distance + Braking Distance... Since the best reaction is 3/4 of a second reaction time...at 40 mph you would be traveling at 58.66ft/sec...the distance you would travel before applying your brakes would be 44 ft Then your braking distance would be depending on your truck and trailer total weight...
Mayhap he meant that he had 50ft left by the time he actually got down to DOIN' IT ! ?
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| As Reg and Hosspuller know,I had this same discussion with them a couple of years ago on here. Didn't realize the difference either,until we tried it.Oh,yeah,our f250 powerstroke could pull the trailer without any problem.Pulling it wasn't the issue.It was: the way it felt when you were pulling it! There wasn't much stability.The trailer was wider,and too much for the rearend.It squatted it bad,especially the shorter wheelbase.We had not had the Ford very long,either,and knew we would be "upside down" pretty much if we traded.But one trip through some hills ( I'd hate to have been in some real mountains,these were the Ozarks in North Arkansas) had me convinced.The trailer fishtailed once or twice,we were not speeding,ect.But it gave me a sick feeling.Luckily we caught Chevy at their "family and employee" sale or whatever that promotion was called,and traded off our beautiful Arizona Beige f250 for a BIG WHITE DUALLY. Well,it can be a pain for me to try to drive,I am only 5'2 and can't see over too many steering wheels to begin with except my Honda.But the difference is worth it.There is a lot more stable "feel" to the trailer and truck. You might know somebody that has a dually set up to tow that would let you test it out with them to see for yourself.I dug my heels in at buying a dually,argued that our truck could pull it,ect.I don't get into the stats on weights,ect.even tho those are important considerations which we also looked into. I just know how it feels! Hey,that's women for you.Not to say we don't know the particulars,but,my female intuition tells me we did the right thing.Not to mention that I like having something as wide as my trailer pulling my trailer.I just know they are set up for heavy kingpin weights because the rearend is more stout. Is that simple,or what???Hosspuller,Reg,I know you will laugh,but understand what I mean! |
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Location: North Carolina | Originally written by crowleysridgegirl on 2007-04-04 12:47 AM Didn't realize the difference either,until we tried it.Oh,yeah,our f250 powerstroke could pull the trailer without any problem.Pulling it wasn't the issue.It was: the way it felt when you were pulling it! There wasn't much stability.The trailer was wider,and too much for the rearend.It squatted it bad,especially the shorter wheelbase.We had not had the Ford very long,either,and knew we would be "upside down" pretty much if we traded.But one trip through some hills ( I'd hate to have been in some real mountains,these were the Ozarks in North Arkansas) had me convinced.The trailer fishtailed once or twice,we were not speeding,ect.But it gave me a sick feeling.Luckily we caught Chevy at their "family and employee" sale or whatever that promotion was called,and traded off our beautiful Arizona Beige f250 for a BIG WHITE DUALLY. Well,it can be a pain for me to try to drive,I am only 5'2 and can't see over too many steering wheels to begin with except my Honda.But the difference is worth it.There is a lot more stable "feel" to the trailer and truck. You might know somebody that has a dually set up to tow that would let you test it out with them to see for yourself.I dug my heels in at buying a dually,argued that our truck could pull it,ect.I don't get into the stats on weights,ect.even tho those are important considerations which we also looked into. I just know how it feels! Hey,that's women for you.Not to say we don't know the particulars,but,my female intuition tells me we did the right thing.Not to mention that I like having something as wide as my trailer pulling my trailer.I just know they are set up for heavy kingpin weights because the rearend is more stout. Is that simple,or what???Hosspuller,Reg,I know you will laugh,but understand what I mean! CRgirl... Your post is not "simple" at all. I'm glad you choose to post. It bears the strength of experience. All the data tables on the Internet aren't worth the "simple" fact that you've tried the single rear wheel and can compare the difference a dually makes with a heavy trailer. |
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Location: sc | Originally written by CurlyGuy on 2007-04-03 12:18 AMI've just purchased a 200l GMC w/duramax and allison tranny 3:73 rear end...it pulls my '06 all -aluminum 3 horse like theres no tomorrow..question is we're looking to get into a gooseneck with living quarters..I noticed that most seem to be pulled with duallys..is this because its so tough to find heavily enough rated tires for those of us without duallys? How much weight can I realistically handle without going to a dually.... short answer, axle capacity. long answer, people are more comfortable with a stiffer suspension.....hence all the "i feel" responses. how much weight can a srw "realistically handle"? my 2500hd will handle just under 3000 pounds without going over the axle limit according to the cat scale. those are the facts. now how do i "feel"? well all these new 3/4 and 1 ton trucks have pretty soft suspensions, i suspect due to the fact the average consumer uses them as a daily ride. i hauled my little 6000# bp with my shiny new to me dmax TWO TIMES and found it ABSOLUTELY unaccepatable in the suspension department.....bouncing, wiggling, etc. when i hooked to any larger trailer i found the ride/handling to be ridiculous. i added timbrens and rancho shocks, then it "felt" much better to me. if i spent much time hooked to heavier trailers i would look into air bags. the facts are if within specs the truck will perform fine(and be safe)........may just not suit personal preference. |
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Elite Veteran
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Location: Odenville, Alabama | So all these other posts just solidifies my statement that the truck/trailer now feels like a "unit" with the dually |
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Location: Vermont | Originally written by hosspuller on 2007-04-03 10:47 PM The above quote is very misleading. Unless one knew from whence that rating was derived, It seems to say the 3/4 truck can handle more trailer than a dually. When we're speaking of Horse trailers... that is a "crock-o-that which promotes plant growth" Hosspuller...send your complaints to Edmunds... I'm just the messenger... |
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Location: sc | Originally written by N2ridin on 2007-04-04 12:05 PMSo all these other posts just solidifies my statement that the truck/trailer now feels like a "unit" with the dually not sure where youre going with that. whats your pin weight? personally i would likely have the same "lack of suspension issue" with a dually if i were rountienly hauling trailers that actually REQUIRED an ~8600# rear axle, i.e. 3000 pounds and up. |
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Elite Veteran
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Location: Odenville, Alabama | I'm not going anywhere with it. I feel better, safer, and happier pulling my big trailer with my big truck PERIOD!! I don't give a rats butt what my pin weight is, or axles, or anything else as far as that goes. I've pulled this trailer with both a SRW 2500 GMC Allison, and my Dually. Dually wins hands down |
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Location: sc | Originally written by N2ridin on 2007-04-04 6:41 PM I'm not going anywhere with it. I feel better, safer, and happier pulling my big trailer with my big truck PERIOD!! I don't give a rats butt what my pin weight is, or axles, or anything else as far as that goes. I've pulled this trailer with both a SRW 2500 GMC Allison, and my Dually. Dually wins hands down thats certainly an interesting attitude towards safety. seems like if you felt youre pushing the limits a trip to the scale is in order, so you would at least know. if youre not going to bother weighing anything then i whole heartedly agree you need the biggest truck. seems like most people take the easy way, just recommending the big truck. that way you dont have to know what youre talking about. i just get a chuckle out of some peoples logic. |
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Location: Odenville, Alabama | Well, you know what they say . . . Bigger is Better!! Touche' |
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| Originally written by N2ridin on 2007-04-04 11:28 PM
Well, you know what they say . . . Bigger is Better!! Touche'
Without knowing specifically who "they" are that you are quoting I find no reason to agree with "them". {their "cred" is is doubt}
I might argue that if you don't know what you are doing with what you have, then going to the next size up is unlikely to solve (and may exacerbate) whatever problems you have, whether they are real or imagined.
OTOH, I might not argue either way (-:
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Location: Rocky Mount N.C. | Dually's "rule", because dually's are "cool"! How's that for a Red Neck answer? When I bought my dually, I really didn't need that much truck. About two years later we bought a bigger trailer, a single wheel 3/4 or 1 ton would have been at or under the pin weight. So we went ahead with the new trailer without having to trade for a new dually and take a beating on the trade of the single wheel truck. |
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Elite Veteran
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Location: Odenville, Alabama | You people are WAY TO SERIOUS about all of this. Just having some fun with WHY I PREFER MY DUALLY! "Bigger is Better" is a JOKE Reg! YOu know . .. bigger house, bigger bank account, bigger body parts ... Just a joke, just a funny since the initial question seemed to be pretty simple, my initial answer was pretty simple. I like the feel of the bigger truck with my big trailer! Simple enough. I don't need nor do I care, about all the engineering aspects about the difference between a 2500 srw and a 3500 drw. I've owned them both, and pulled the same big trailer with both and I prefer the big truck. Chill people, chill! To coin the phrase of the wise old rabbit . . . That's all folks! |
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Location: Vermont | Originally written by N2ridin on 2007-04-05 12:10 PM To coin the phrase of the wise old rabbit . . . That's all folks! Actually that was Porky Pig... |
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Location: Odenville, Alabama | OH MY GOSH!! You're right!! AHHH Whats Up Doc?? |
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Location: THE GREAT NORTHWET, OREGON(THE REAL GODS COUNTRY) | Gotta have a dually, with redneck sparkerlers on the roof and mirrors!! I love my dually! chain all 6 tires and you got a tank! If you like single wheels go for it but how many big trucls and buses have only single rear wheels .....huh....huh....I rest my case. |
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Location: Brighton, Colorado | I am amused with all of the banter regarding dually's and singles. IMO, they all will haul the same amount of weight and givin' the fact that most all trucks have the exact same brake systems irregardless if it is dual or not, to me means that they are exactly the same. Like others have stated, I'm sure that to some they handle somewhat better (live weight vs. dead weight) than single rear wheels, but from my own personal experience driving 25,000 lbs trailer behind both, I perfered not having the training wheels. Especially in the snow and rain. I have found that the traction in inclement weather is way better with single than dual's. One of the draw backs with the singles I do admit is that the tires, due to the larger weight, do wear out 10k to 15k sooner, but when it's a difference of 40k miles on 4 tires vs 50k miles on 6 tires, to me is not too much of an issue. |
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Location: sc | Originally written by SLICKRNSNOT on 2007-04-08 8:22 PM If you like single wheels go for it but how many big trucls and buses have only single rear wheels .....huh....huh....I rest my case. do a little research on why big trucks use duals, then come on back with your "case". |
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| Originally written by chadsalt on 2007-04-08 9:42 PM
Originally written by SLICKRNSNOT on 2007-04-08 8:22 PM If you like single wheels go for it but how many big trucls and buses have only single rear wheels .....huh....huh....I rest my case. do a little research on why big trucks use duals, then come on back with your "case".
Not all of them do, there are now some BIG and PHAT tractor tires that are essentially "double wide".
Almost 500mm IIRC, maybe more.
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Extreme Veteran
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Location: Claxton, Ga. | If you are driving your single rear wheel truck with trailer please don't be anywhere near me. The ability to carry the load is why they have dual rear wheels. The pin weight on some LQ trailers can be very high. A single E load rating tire can't handle that much weight or you will be a max weight. Another thing is safety. If a single rear wheel truck has a blowout with a heavy LQ trialer it is not going to be good at all. They also make 3500 SRW and DRW. It still comes to the abiltiy of the tire to carry the load. 18 wheelers have dual's or a super single these days. That super single can carry the same load as dual setup. Oh yeah, you can upgrade your single wheels to a 19.5 rim and tire that have more load rating. Just another point.
Edited by Spooler 2007-04-08 10:40 PM
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Location: sc | Originally written by Reg on 2007-04-08 10:32 PM
Originally written by chadsalt on 2007-04-08 9:42 PM
Originally written by SLICKRNSNOT on 2007-04-08 8:22 PM If you like single wheels go for it but how many big trucls and buses have only single rear wheels .....huh....huh....I rest my case. do a little research on why big trucks use duals, then come on back with your "case".
Not all of them do, there are now some BIG and PHAT tractor tires that are essentially "double wide".
Almost 500mm IIRC, maybe more.
that was basically my point (remember my chosen profession). people are often under the impression big trucks use duals for "stability" or "capacity" or "safety"..........wrong. supersingles are avaliable, just havent been real popular. |
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| Originally written by chadsalt on 2007-04-09 6:48 AM
Originally written by Reg on 2007-04-08 10:32 PM
Originally written by chadsalt on 2007-04-08 9:42 PM
Originally written by SLICKRNSNOT on 2007-04-08 8:22 PM If you like single wheels go for it but how many big trucls and buses have only single rear wheels .....huh....huh....I rest my case. do a little research on why big trucks use duals, then come on back with your "case".
Not all of them do, there are now some BIG and PHAT tractor tires that are essentially "double wide".
Almost 500mm IIRC, maybe more.
that was basically my point (remember my chosen profession ). people are often under the impression big trucks use duals for "stability" or "capacity" or "safety"..........wrong. supersingles are avaliable, just havent been real popular.
I suspect that there is still some inertial resistance to supersingles, though I don't know what the costs come out to with rim replacements and whatever else logistical problems there might be in a switchover.
Then there is the issue of getting a flat and HOPEFULLY being able to limp along on the "other" tire on that spindle - if there is one.
Yeah, likely to catch fire if it is FULLY loaded, but I think most tires exceed the axle ratings, so perhaps it just overheats ?
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Location: THE GREAT NORTHWET, OREGON(THE REAL GODS COUNTRY) | Originally written by chadsalt on 2007-04-08 7:42 PM Originally written by SLICKRNSNOT on 2007-04-08 8:22 PM If you like single wheels go for it but how many big trucls and buses have only single rear wheels .....huh....huh....I rest my case. do a little research on why big trucks use duals, then come on back with your "case". Case of what? At any rate did the original question get Answered? Heck just go down and get what you want and pull it with whatever you got and enjoy the heck out of it.You can get all kind of opinions here forget what your owners manual says,forget the load rating on the tires,single vs duall,they only put dualls on to get rid of all those extra tires anyway. Case of beer? case of diarrea? or just in case it is all the same.Metric case ? And then hwy tred or off road tred,White walls or black? paper or plastic? Oh my I need a case. |
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Location: sc | Originally written by SLICKRNSNOT on 2007-04-11 6:35 PM Originally written by chadsalt on 2007-04-08 7:42 PM Originally written by SLICKRNSNOT on 2007-04-08 8:22 PM If you like single wheels go for it but how many big trucls and buses have only single rear wheels .....huh....huh....I rest my case. do a little research on why big trucks use duals, then come on back with your "case". Case of what? At any rate did the original question get Answered? Heck just go down and get what you want and pull it with whatever you got and enjoy the heck out of it.You can get all kind of opinions here forget what your owners manual says,forget the load rating on the tires,single vs duall,they only put dualls on to get rid of all those extra tires anyway. Case of beer? case of diarrea? or just in case it is all the same.Metric case ? And then hwy tred or off road tred,White walls or black? paper or plastic? Oh my I need a case. the "case" you rested...... |
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Location: THE GREAT NORTHWET, OREGON(THE REAL GODS COUNTRY) | And it needed restin! |
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Why dually's
