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Regular
Posts: 54
Location: IL. | Has any one been following the story about charmayne james cloning scamper to use in her breeding program?I personaly do not know anything about cloning animals but is this safe to the horse industry as a whole.Sounds again like someone using fame and money for thier own personal profit,If this has been going on for a long time i'm sorry for my ignorance. |
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Expert
Posts: 1871
Location: NY | this is the first i heared about it ? how would you regerster the fold? the cloned horse would be the same as the first??? |
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Regular
Posts: 54
Location: IL. | We seen it in the barrel horse news,i can't believe more people have not shown a little more interest in this subject.I myself have a great deal of interst , mostly because i do not know much about it. |
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Member
Posts: 14
Location: hartford city, in | My understanding is that you will not be able to register the foals.
But in rodeo's who cares if the horse is reg's . Papers dont win money. |
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Regular
Posts: 54
Location: IL. | Papers and money to me is not the question,to my understanding there is a grand total of less than 20 equine clones in the WORLD, with the first one born in 2003. I was looking more for the facts rather than opinions on an issue that is has less than 4 years of research and could have a great impact on the entire horse industry be it good or bad. |
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Veteran
Posts: 282
Location: southcentral pennsylvania | I do not know about the health of cloned horses. However, a local dairy farmer made national news with cloned dairy cows. The milk co-op will not accept his milk, although they deny it is because of the cloned cows. However, the non-acceptance of his milk began immediately after a national news show about his cloned cows. Both have had health problems which the vet is unable to diagnose. The farmer stated he paid $60,000 to have a champion cow cloned, and his nightmare began. He does not want to sell the ill cows because he is fearful they will get in the food chain, with unknown health issues. The first one was fine as a calf, and developed health problems later. The other became ill early on. Brenda |
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Expert
Posts: 1871
Location: NY | I was reading about cloned animal and it seems that the age faster and get sick soomer just the same way the animal did that was cloned but in shorter time .I do not see the beifaces to cloneing |
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Member
Posts: 12
Location: IL | I thought thiw was pretty interesting, showing Smart Little Lena clones & how they don't all look the same. http://www.nature.com/nbt/journal/v24/n6/fig_tab/nbt0606-605_F1.html |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 301
Location: Catoctin Mtn, Maryland | In my opinion this cloning is a load of crap. Ms James should have used the big bucks for psycho-therapy instead of cloning Scamper, or maybe buying another horse. But I guess it's easier to "clone" what you have instead of taking the time to find another talented steed. Hey, I've got a great horse that I've had to retire due to arthritis. I miss our riding time together and she always took care of me out on the trails. When she passes on I will remember her as the "best" darn horse I ever had. If I had the "dollars" to clone her, it wouldn't happen. She will always be in my heart as the best, and yep, I'll compare her to another horse that I ride in the future..............and will ALWAYS say, Damn I miss riding Cheyenne............ |
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Expert
Posts: 1989
Location: South Central OK | Sorry but I can't honestly believe that cloned animals age more rapidly...they are exactly the same genetically, with all the good and bad! I have followed the Smart Little Lena clones and the differing facial markings seem to be well documented and explained. |
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Expert
Posts: 1723
Location: michigan | Sounds again like someone using fame and money for thier own personal profit if Charmayne want to use her own money to clone a horse thats her business. Its her money and her fame whcih BTW she has earned. This crap is the sameload of BS or HS that was shoveled about when AI and ET technology was introduced. Any now we know it has tremendous benefits for everyone. Its is wrong for me to spend 5000K for stud fee to get the best possible foal? You bet I want to make a profit! and so does Charmayne. |
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Regular
Posts: 54
Location: IL. | All I am asking is there enough research to start using cloned horses in breeding,if she wants to clone her horse more power to her! Who knows the effects this could have 10,15,20 years down the road by then the genes of that horse could be in hundreds of thousands of horses,nobody wants to look at the big picture anymore.I say clone it and cut it at least until they know the long term affects,if any.And I think think cloning is just a little different than AI or ET. |
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Member
Posts: 12
Location: IL | I don't think we have enough info yet. 2 of the 5 SLL clones apparantly have confimationally defective legs, what will they do with those 2? I don't think we are quite there yet. Personally I am not sure if we should ever be, but that is another story. |
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Expert
Posts: 1989
Location: South Central OK |
Edited by huntseat 2007-01-17 5:36 PM
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Expert
Posts: 1989
Location: South Central OK | They cloned that cutting mare Bless My Blue Boon, or something like that for breeding... |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 479
Location: central sierra nevada foothills | Just some info I read..... There was a rule by the AQHA mentioned in the America's Horse magazine in the article regarding James's cloned foal, that the foals will not be eligible for registration. That goes for all cloned horses from AQHA animals. |
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Expert
Posts: 1989
Location: South Central OK | Thank God NCHA does not have that rule, really big cutting horses only go to the AQHA shows and play...they don't need those worthless points when they are out for cold hard cash. I love the AQHA but they are a little full of themselves most of the time...remember the cremella ruling? |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 479
Location: central sierra nevada foothills | yes, they are very political, but I can see what they are trying to do, kinda like the HYPP, when they finally said no registration to horses with it, they are trying to keep a good genetic standing, if I said that right. Too bad it took them so long with the HYPP, but then again, good breeding and breeders wouldn't keep a horse or breed to a horse with a genetic problem...... |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 560
Location: Mena, AR | Only time will tell with the clones. I think they will find out there are no more problems with a cloned horse than any other horse. My guess in 10 to 15 years you will be able to register a cloned horse. I'm not against having more of the very best: AI, embyro transfer, cloned or natural.-Betty |
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Member
Posts: 46
Location: Corvallis, OR | From the scientific side of things.... Cloning an animal only means that the "clone" will posess the same DNA as the "parent". Think about it like identical twins.. While they may share the same DNA, there personalities and body types may be MUCH different. Personality is determined AFTER conseption. It has to do with the way the neurons and pathways develop during gestation (a totally random process). THats why a lot of times you will see identical twins with opposing personalities. Coloration and markings has to do with the way the cromesomes seperate after conception. The best example of this is calico cats.... There may be a litter of 6 kittens, but none of them will have the same markings. IN my opinion, cloning of Champion horses is a waste of money, cause you are never going to get the same animal. The same DNA, yes; but personality, ability, markings, conformation.... there are more factors here than DNA alone.... You will never get the same horse twice. even with the same DNA. If this makes no sense to anyone, sorry.... Try to think of it as twins..... sharing the same DNA, but may not have the same body type, or personality. This may be a good time to make the point that: When breeding, just because a horse's sire is a champion, doesn't mean that horse is gonna be one either. You can get champions from 'no name" stallions/mares... Just like you can get 'duds' from champs... Just makes Me appreciate the mericle that life turly is.... cause you never know what you are gonna get!! |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 479
Location: central sierra nevada foothills | with cats though. a litter of 6, 4 8, etc, can have different fathers, sires, or whatever you want to call the male cat. One litter what I'm trying to say may not have the same father. Nothing to do with cloning, just explaining something from the previous post...... |
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Member
Posts: 46
Location: Corvallis, OR | I totally forgot that point (cat litter w/ different fathers)... I guess my litter was a hypathetical one... That was the only example I could think of.
But I saw the link w/ the clones w/ different facial markings. I was trying to explain how that happens... Not sure if anyone cares, but here goes anyway (I'm kinda a nerd when it comes to this science and genetics stuff)..
But, markings and coloration aren't determined solely by DNA. Yes, they are all sorrel with white facial markings... but the exact shape/size of those markings has to do with the way the cromesome attaches to the cell wall...
Think of it like having 5 excersize balls (the big rubber ones that are 2-3 foot in diameter and hollow). Put a baseball inside each one that has been covered in glue... Shake all 5 balls for the same amount of time, until the baseball gets stuck/fused to the inside of the excersize ball. All 5 excersize balls will have the baseball fused to it in a different place.... thats how markings get their unique shape... Chromesomes, or "heavy bodies" fuse to the cell in different spots, so no two will ever be exactly the same...
Does that help/clarify? Or do I just sound like a nerd? Or did anyone even care?
Anywho...
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Location: KY | I thought it was interesting.....and there is nature vs. nurture..... |
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Expert
Posts: 1989
Location: South Central OK | Reproductive male cats are Toms and females are Queens. Funny how dogs are bitches and cats are queens...the dog people must have been off playing fetch when names were passed out. Nabsolute, many folks here do have scientific knowledge of this topic...they aren't the ones making crazy comments, like clones age more rapidly(someone slept during Biology.) You won't change ignorance about this topic, several have tried scientific approaches in the past, it's like lecturing to my students while they sleep...but a good try none the less. |
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Member
Posts: 46
Location: Corvallis, OR | All I can do is try!!!
I just like it when everyone has enough knowledge to make educated theories/comments.
I try to make it a life philosophy/motto that I will not have an opinion unless I have the education/knowledge to back it up. i.e. I try not to have opinions about things that I'm not fully educated on.
It usually works... Usually |
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Regular
Posts: 88
Location: Youngstown, OH | The mare was Bet Yer Blue Boons |
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Expert
Posts: 1989
Location: South Central OK | Yep, that was it! |
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