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Location: Dickinson, TX | Well, Lowe's told me they sell Tyvek, but in reality they sell their own house brand equivalent to Tyvek. I've gone ahead and purchased a roll of the stuff, now am wondering how to install it. If you look at any house under construction that uses the stuff, the logo faces outward. When installing in a horse trailer, the way the stuff is rolled at the factory would cause the logo to face into the interior of the trailer. My thought is that this DOES matter, since the stuff is different on one side than the other. Can anyone verify this? Seems the stuff should be unrolled, then rolled back up so that it faces the correct direction... The project is taking shape... Mike |
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Expert
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Location: North Carolina | The printed surface in or out inside a horse trailer should not make a difference. Permeability is a two way process. On a house, the manufacturer, wants everybody to see their product being used. |
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Location: Dickinson, TX | Agreed that permeability works both ways... but the B side of the stuff is noticeably different texturewise (smooth) than the A side (rough.) Mike |
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Location: louisville ky | Hey Mike, Lowe's brand and the Tyveck brand is the same product. The lettering should face use as you unstall the product. It is designed that way for airflow, and let out any moisture. I installed mine with a slap stapler. |
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Location: Dickinson, TX | Ryano, You have piqued my interest now... I'm the kind of guy who has to do things a certain way that makes sense... In a home installation, the lettering would face toward the OUTSIDE, away from the interior of the home. Why should the lettering face toward the INSIDE on a horse trailer? While it may seem to some that it doesn't matter, the Tyvek is designed a certain way and I don't see why it should be installed differently in a horse trailer than it is in practice at construction sites... Splitting hairs, maybe, but... Only thing I can think of is that the backside (non-lettered side) of the Tyvek must face the insulation, regardless of whether that means the Tyvek lettered side faces inside or outside. ???
Edited by racesarabhorses 2007-01-10 7:31 PM
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Location: North Carolina | RAH ... You might look at Dupont's web site. They are the makers of Tyvek. The material is NOT a vapor barrier and as I said before, facing side is not an issue. "...DuPont™ Tyvek® HomeWrap®, DuPont™ Tyvek® StuccoWrap®, DuPont™ Tyvek® DrainWrap™ and DuPont™ Tyvek® CommercialWrap® are equally effective in both directions..." Here's the web address http://www2.dupont.com/Tyvek_Construction/en_US/uses_apps/installers/FAQ_installers.html
Edited by hosspuller 2007-01-11 7:19 AM
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Location: Dickinson, TX | Thanks for the link. Looks like DuPont does not suggest a vapor barrier for my particular (predominant) climate. I suspect such a barrier would trap moisture behind the walls of the trailer and cause a mold/mildew problem. So a couple of questions... 1. Will Tyvek really serve any purpose? 2. Should I go with NOTHING between the new interior walls and insulation behind them? Gotta luv learning how to do a DIY LQ... Thanks again for the link, Mike |
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Location: North Carolina | Originally written by racesarabhorses on 2007-01-11 3:15 PM Looks like DuPont does not suggest a vapor barrier for my particular (predominant) climate. I suspect such a barrier would trap moisture behind the walls of the trailer and cause a mold/mildew problem. So a couple of questions... 1. Will Tyvek really serve any purpose? 2. Should I go with NOTHING between the new interior walls and insulation behind them? Doesn't look like Tyvek will serve your purpose. Let's try a little logic. Consider: A vapor barrier is needed to stop water vapor from moving from a warm moist area to a cold area. When it gets to the cold area, it will condense and wet what ever is in the area. In houses in your area (Tx), air conditioning will cause the inside wall to be cold. A vapor barrier on the inside will cause the vapor to wet the inside walls. Outside walls of all buildings must breath. Even Tx gets some rain. Otherwise they rot from the inside. In a trailer, You're going to have the hot moist air inside, with the outside skin cold. That metal skin doesn't breath like brick or wood. So, when you're running the air conditioner instead of a heater, the skin is a vapor barrier to warm wet air. Conclusion: If you don't have an inside vapor barrier, the trailer skin will be wet inside. Anyone else want to chime in ?? |
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| What he said
(hosspuller)
Metal box around occupied space .ne. wood or brick around occupied space.
Adoption of "regular" building practices is not logical, etc.
Thought is needed before proceeding.
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Location: Dickinson, TX | I understand what you're saying... but if we want a vapor barrier then we're looking at plastic sheeting. Definitely a vapor barrier... so good in fact that now I'm trapping moisture between it and the insulation between the trailer supports. In my mind, that was something to avoid doing because I'd virtually guarantee growth of mold/mildew. I know I'm not the first person to build LQ into a horse trailer. I had second thoughts about roofer's felt from the get go, and I'm not sure plastic is the best option. Surely someone knows the answer... maybe plastic is indeed what should be used...? I have a layer of insulation between the trailer bracing right now. I want to cover that before putting in furring strips and another layer of insulation. Just my thought on how to proceed, but need to answer this issue first. Mike |
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Location: Chillicothe, Ohio | A vapor barrier really is only needed for the inside of a lq under the conditions of a cold outside, where the warm moist air inside wants to condense on the cold trailer walls. If you spend a lot of time in your trailer in these conditions, suggest you go ahead with a vapor barrier (plastic sheeting). My understanding of tyvec or any of the housewraps are that these are not vapor barriers, they are to prevent wind (airflow) and wind driven rain from penetrating through the house sheathing (plywood/osb) under your siding. They are made to stop water droplets but pass water molecules to allow moisture that is inside the walls to evaporate to the outside. On typical residental construction, the vapor barrier is usually the asphalt coated paper facing on the fiberglass insulation..in cold climates the paper is facing the inside of the house..in hot climates, the outside.. Since a trailer outside skin is pretty much a moisture barrier otherwise your trailer would be leaking, the only condensation you should see when your are runnng the air conditioning in your hot/humid Texas weather should be on the outside of the windows or trailer skin, depending on how well you insulate the trailer. If you line the entire inside of you trailer with plastic, tape up all the seams and around the window openings so your really make it air tight. The only downside to this is if you get moisture from a leak between the plastic and your trailer outside walls, there is no easy way for the moisture to evaporate and you could get some mold. On my trailer, I used the blue foamboard between the trailer supports then another layer between the wood furring I attached to the supports. I did not use a vapor barrier since this insulation is pretty much a vapor barrier, I did tape up the seams etc. If you are using fiberglass batts, I would use a plastic barrier.
When you are inside on a hot humid day, the air conditioning keeps the air inside very dry, so there is not much moisture in the air anyway. If you camp in winter, the moisture is much more of a problem, because you are not running the air conditioning and pulling the moisture out of the air. Your body produces several pints of water a night just from breating, if you use a propane heater, that puts even more moisture into the air..its important to keep a couple windows or roof vents cracked when winter camping for this reason..otherwise the humidity inside hits the roof (so to speak) and causes everything to feel damp. This is long winded, hope it helps. PS, under no condition should you use tar or building paper inside your trailer...the asphalt coating is a known carcinigen (sp???) |
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| See Vapor pressure 101.
Tyvek and similar products are supposedly permeable membranes - or am I thinking of Goretex ? Maybe.
No matter, my guess is that I would not want water vapor to migrate through whatever I lined the inside of a horse trailer's camper section with.
I don't see the point of air exchange either, so I'd probably use plastic sheeting. It is unlikely that it would be airtight, so there is little/no risk of the walls blowing in as the sun warms the outside of the trailer's wall. I would expect damp or wet walls inside the trailer, especially if it is slept in, so mildew is likely to become an issue.
Sail boat people (rag baggers) have most of these problems/questions/answers and they DO sleep on their boats - there being nothing much else to do.
You might find interesting articles about fitting out on their boards.
Edited by Reg 2007-01-12 7:49 PM
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Location: Dickinson, TX | Now we're getting somewhere! I mainly camp on cold nights from September through March. Not much camping in the summer time... so it would seem plastic is the way to go along with a 2nd layer of foam insulation. Lowe's has 4 mil thickness plastic sheeting for this purpose... I'll take the Tyvek back to them tomorrow and pick up some plastic sheeting. Time to start thinking about furring strips. Any advice here would be appreciated. Lowe's doesn't seem to stock 1x2 pine strips... they have Spruce, which looks like it tends to split. I'll have to stop by Home Depot next time I'm in the big city. Mike Thanks, y'all. Mike
Edited by racesarabhorses 2007-01-12 8:50 PM
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Location: Chillicothe, Ohio | Mike, if you search this site you should find about a million (or at least enough to read all night) posts, some with pics of how to finish out a lq. Lots of them discuss how to attach the furring strips...depends on how the trailer is metal framed...my sooner has vertical alumimun rectangular tubing on the walls about every 14 inches and across the roof about the same..I attached my furring strips directly to these supports in the same orientation using self drilling hex head screws with a drill using a hex driver...you will need to push a little bit when the screw head gets to the wood so it sinks into the wood far enough so the head is flush...it can be done. Otherwise you could use selfdrilling flat head screws with phillips heads. My experience is that the hex heads are easier to start...you can drill these through the wood and they have a self drilling end that will go easily into aluminum framing...steel may be another matter, but a company like Fastenal sells higher grade fasteners that will. Lowes sells the hex heads, for 3/4 furring use 1-1/2..just make sure whatever you use does not go through the thickness of your metal framing into to the outside skin(ouch). Plus, watch out for any factory trailer wiring hidden along the ceiling line. Marty. |
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Location: Colorado | Mike, most of our camping happens in the Rockies where it can get pretty cold at night, even during high summer. We haven't started our LQ conversion yet, but we built a slide-in truck camper and used the thick (don't remember the mil measurement) semi-transparent roll plastic for the vapor barrier. Working from the bottom upward, we sealed the edge overlaps with a thin bead of clear rubber silicone, before taping the seams with good old duct tape, just to be sure we had a good seal.
Home Depot sells mostly hem fir framing lumber here in Colorado. Don't know if the materials vary from region to region though. If you have a table saw you might be able to get the type of softwood you're looking for and rip it to size.
Discovered that Camping World will no longer be selling the Utopia (cowboy) outdoor shower, however I located a few other RV places online that stock them. So I purchased one to put aside so we have it when it is time for the install. The parts desk person I called at CW told me they were being discontinued, but that might just be an ugly rumor on the part of CW. So if you're planning on putting one in you can find one still at an RV supplier in Las Vegas or also Nolans RV online in Denver.
lisa. |
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Lowe's Tyvek equivalent
