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Elite Veteran
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Location: Hagerstown, MD | Have a few questions about oats and feeding them to my horses. I have fed crimped/rolled oats for a while to my horses for a lot of reasons. Biggest reason is habit, then because they are easy to get and thirdly the horses seem to really like them. I feed a combination of 12% sweet feed, some beet pulp with a lot of water and some vegetable oil mixed in and a little bit of rice bran. I put the oats on the bottom, then some sweet feed, a little bit of rice bran and then slop the soaked beet pulp/oil in on top. I top dress with a little more sweet feed and then feed. Every single time, the horses will dig down through all the other stuff to get to the oats. I would have thought they would go for the sweet feed before anything else? Comments and opinions are welcome. Happy trails.
Edited by deranger 2007-01-04 7:04 PM
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 671
Location: THE GREAT NORTHWET, OREGON(THE REAL GODS COUNTRY) | Because oats are yummy! I feed oat hay and orchard grass/alfalfa mix,they eat all the oat hay first. |
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Location: KY | Oats are yummy and so are the oat pellets.....we feed the alfa-oat pellets which is an extruded feed made from oats, oat by products, alfalfa with a mineral pak added, then extruded. The horses love this stuff. At $9 per 100# beats the heck out of oats at $17+ per 100, and with no loss of nutrients or feed value. Our young stallion and a 2 yo gelding (working hard) are getting Omolene 200 in addition to the oat pellets. (And hay and pasture) Jack, for what you are doing, you might be better off time and money wise going to the Omolene products. We did some figuring with the cost of the stuff we were adding, and the Omolene 200 came out to be slightly better value and we know that the animal is getting the same nutrition from day to day (so long as it eats everything which all of ours seem to do, I think they are all part Beagle). |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 500
Location: West TN | Rose, have you ever tried feed from Co-Op. I was wondering how it compared to the Omolene you are using. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 954
Location: Hagerstown, MD | Habits are hard to break. I buy feed from 2 different sources right now. I buy Blue Seal products from a more upscale dealer that carries a lot of horsey supplies; shoes, nails, wormers, ointments and fly spray. The other source is an "old" family owned feed mill that I like to buy from for price, convenience, some advice, some opinions, current neighborhood news, weather forecasts and so on. I'll have to look over some recent receipts and see what I'm paying for a 50# bag of oats and do some comparing. I'll check into the Omolene and see where it is offered here locally. I'm always in favor of cutting costs and saving time as long as it's a bargain all the way across the board. Happy trails. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 954
Location: Hagerstown, MD | I checked the receipts for oats and I was sort of surprised to see that was only paying $11.50/#100 for rolled/crimped oats. I'll admit I have to pour them out of the bag into a large trashcan so that I can check to make sure it's just oats. Once in a while I find some stuff that wouldn't really hurt the horse, but I don't want them eating it; stalks, blooms and buds. I guess that's the advantage of dealing with a family owned business and having things done the same way for the last 80 years or so. haha Happy trails. |
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Veteran
Posts: 225
Location: Urbana,MD | Oats are nice for easy keepers but they really are only a source of protien.They will not help with hard keepers much.They do not have much fat at all.For all the mixing you are doing.....why not just buy a really good feed with higher fat?Then you wouldn't have to mix all this different stuff.I have not found corn oil to keep weight much.It does a good job on the coat.When you look at those feed bags....concentrate on the protien level and fat content.If your horses are not in moderate to heavy work they only need 10% protien...and for those easy keepers they would not need much grain at all ,and for the hard keepers get a 10% fat content.I have worked at many different barns with top notch horses and have found this to be the best way to keep hard keepers.I pay about $8 a bag and a bag right now in the winter last my 3 gals a week or so.That is feeding 2 times a day. |
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Location: KY | Derrick...I haven't had a real good relationship with the Madison Co coop; and the Omolene is always fresh and consistent and I can always get it no matter where we are; not so with coop. Jack...What a deal on oats! Good for you! Right now we are very happy with the alfa-oat pellets and Omolene 200; however, I really like feeding oats, the horses love them, what comes thru in the poop turns into green oat grass. Happy trails. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 954
Location: Hagerstown, MD | Casey, if you watched me feed one evening, it would probably surprise you how little time it takes to feed all the stuff I'm feeding the way I have everything set up in the barn. Denise looks at me and just shakes her head trying to figure out how I figured it out.  I'm not feeding any corn oil, just the cheapest veggie oil I can find at Sam's Club. I'll start concentrating on finding some 10% fat content feed. Is your barn locked? Just kidding! Happy trails. |
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Veteran
Posts: 225
Location: Urbana,MD | real funny....my barn is not locked but I do have about 10 bags in the other shed.HA....I know blue seal makes a 10%fat feed.I have gotten a pamphlet at river city last time I went.I have been getting my bedding there.Can't remember what it was called though. |
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Expert
Posts: 1205
Location: Danielsville Georgia | Not to sound mean or know it all but I could never imagine fixing,mixing,adding all these things to feed a horse.I feed common grass hay a mill feed that is 15% fiber,6%fat(I think is too much) 12% protein/rather it be 10.No sweet added.Its oats,corn and alfapha(darn spelling)pellets.I add a 2 ounce scoop of Mormans Sure Grow minerals to a scoop of feed.Brood mares,mares fixing to foal,weanies,studs.Only horses that that get anything differant is the very old(20 something plus and ONLY if teeth missing or weight is a issue.Which I've not had much of a issue with that.I have horses out in training(4 right now) that trainers only feed common grass hay and a middle of the road sweet feed twice a day.The ones in training their weight is ok,their fit,muscled and worked daily 5 days a week.Three differant trainers in two states and they both feed the same way.No nothing else added. I have used a little oil in the past but what a mess it makes of feed tubs and I run out and just seem to never replace it.WE have owned Arabs,Saddlebreds,Qtrs,Walkers over 25 years and NEVER did anything special to feed like I read some folks do.Never used many supplements of any sort really.I've never bought beet bulp or Alphafa hay or straight oats etc.Some of these horses have been ridden/used a lot on a daily/weekly basis.I'm NOT a real fan of being too heavy on the grain eaither.I go into training barns with 20 to 35 head and seem to feed very similar to me and some of these horses get intense workouts daily and stay in good flesh and very fit,muscled etc. |
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Veteran
Posts: 225
Location: Urbana,MD | your horses stay in good weight probally becuase of the 6% fat content in the grain.I feed my gals very simalar.No specail stuff just 10% protein feed ,but 10% fat.They get one scoop am and pm.I do mix with a little beet pulp,but that is it.Also grass hay. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 954
Location: Hagerstown, MD | hounddog, maybe I'm being a little too viligent with my care and feeding. Could be the influence of my wife who has a phobia of being accused of having skinny horses.  Of the 4 horses we have right now, they are quite a mix; 21 yr. old arab gelding, 16 yr. old arab/quarterhorse mare, 5 yr. old 3/4 arab 1/4 quarterhorse and a 5 yr. old percheron/quarterhorse gelding. They all seem to have different nutrional needs (in my opinion). I have always been intent on having all of them a little heavy going into winter, but I wasn't able to do that this year, so I'm playing a little catch up with all 4 right now. When I walk in the barn, I like to see really well rounded rumps and smooth shoulders. I'm not seeing that right now and I have to admit that I'm more than bothered by it. In years past, I could throw a bale of decent hay, some decent quality bulk mill feed, clean water and sleep good at night. I'm not at that point right now and working really hard to get there again. My 21 yr. old gelding, 5 yr. old mare and 5 yr. old cross bred gelding are not carrying enough weight right now and I'm feeding more than I ever have in any past winter. Someone has suggesting treating for tape worms and since I've done everything else I can think of, that will be the next thing I do. Thanks for the comments, suggestions and opinions. Happy trails. |
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Location: pensacola, fl | deranger I have had the same problem with my 2 horses this year. I have been at my wits end trying to figure out what more I could do. I went to the feed/tack store and was browsing around at some vitamins and such when the lady asked if I needed help. I told her my problem, though it wasn't a huge weight loss I wanted my horses to look a little better, she suggested a 5 day worming with safeguard. I though "Oh my goodness-give my horse a safeguard paste wormer for 5 days in a row" Well I did it and WOW what a difference it made in both of them. I had previously had a fecal done on both of them and it came back negative, the lady at the feed store showed me an article saying something about a certain stage of worms not showing up on a fecal. In my case she was right. If you decide to try this please remember the it is only safe the the wormer called SAFEGUARD!! I'll try and get a copy of the article and post it here later. Oh yeah I also put my guys on a new feed called Lite Balance from nutrena and some beet pulp. I went with the Lite Balance feed because my horses are normally easy keepers and you can feed 1/2 the feed and still get the same amount of vitamins as a whole scoop of normal feed. I think the harder to keep version is called Safe Choice.
Edited by Monsterhorse 2007-01-06 8:24 AM
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Expert
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Location: Danielsville Georgia | I fed the same feed but a 3% fat until this past year.Never a issue with weight.Mill changed NOT me.Said he changed and went UP on price due to a couple of big QTR breeders wanting HIGH fat.Other trainers I've talked to said same as me that they were happy with the way it was.Mill owners out look was that fat pigs,fat horses and fat people(really he said women) were unhealthy and it was sure a bad thing if pregant and due to give birth.He also said "what do I know"as I only have a degree in animal nutrition. I have about 28 head ranging in age from weanies to a 26 y.o. Arab.No weight issues with any.If I want to put weight on one(resque type situation or very old) I've always fed a TOTAL ration.One that can be fed with out hay if needed and Alphafa was the number one ingrident.Such as Mania Pro Roundup or such and fee them all the can hold with liminted hay.If very old or ill I add water(warm to it). I've seen a gal aquire some real bone racks and keep them dry lotted(to keep from burning calories off) and keep a big bucket of Mania Pro Roundup in front of them 24/7 and withen a few weeks a HUGE change in them.She also owns a feed store and sells all of the other MANY things to customers for weight gains and under her breath snickers about ALL the going ons to feed a horse.She says (and I've read this)that it fills the entire gut from front to back with good nutrition and every mouthfull is the same formula hour after hour and so on.It works.I've done this on very old and the very ill and in drought when NO hay or grass was ANYWHERE to be had. No hint of colic,founder etc.Nothing else,no top dressing etc.Even old toothless bone racks have a big body change in 6 weeks or less.They died in good flesh with her. As far as wormers I use Ivermictrin mostly and the formula with the tape remover once a year.I have too many to use a 5 day wormer on so I use QUEST at least once a year,some times twice.If I use Quest I use a Ivermictrin followed by Quest in two weeks to prevent any issues with a large kill off of worms at once.I've never had a issue with Quest.
Edited by hounddog 2007-01-06 9:00 AM
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 954
Location: Hagerstown, MD | monsterhorse, thank you for the info on worming. I have heard that some where in the past, can't remember when/where. I'm going to do the tape worm treatment on my 5 yr. old mare first to see if I get any positive results. After that, I'm going to try the extended wormer and see if I can get the same results you did. I KNOW there is something going on with my guys and I haven't been able to put my finger on it yet. With all the help I'm getting from you and everyone else, I know I'll get to the bottom of this and have to start worrying about them being too fat. I know when my guys are doing really good and I know when something is wrong and my barn is not in order right now. Thanks again and happy trails. |
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Veteran
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Location: PA | The worms you are refering to are called "encysted Strongyle Vulgaris" . In the 3rd and 4th stages of the larvae's migration they may burrow into the walls of the intestine and remain dormant until conditions are favorable for them to mature and continue their life cycle. When they become "encysted" they do not show up on a fecal count and are not effected by any regular worming rotation or the daily pelleted wormer. The only way to kill them while in this stage is to use a "power pack" dewormer. Both Safeguard and Panacur have their wormer package this way just for this purpose. The Safeguard actually has 10 reg. size tubes of wormer (2 per day) at around $56.00 and the Panacur has 5 larger tubes (one per day) for the same price. The Panacur is easier I think because you only have to shoot them up once a day. One tube of Safeguard a day for this purpose only treats a 550 lb horse....that is right on the box. This mega dose of wormer will not harm a horse as long as you follow the directions on the package and it will wipe out these nasty, nasty buggers from your horse.....pasture rotation is important too and they migrate through the manure as other larvae do. Do not use regular wormers for this purpose !! Panacur and Safeguard power packs are both sold in most catalogs. I get mine at American Livestock Supply Inc.......they are the cheapest. If you use a "daily wormer" check with your vet before doing this. |
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Expert
Posts: 1205
Location: Danielsville Georgia | Don't feel good this A.M.and did not get dictionary for spelling or look up proper terms for strongyles.I fully understand that there are MANY differant ways to manage horses but for ages I've read so much about all these additives,feeds,wheat,bran,beet pulp etc. I and a few close horseman I know just never have had to go that route ever.I also have not used a PowerPack or Strongid/Panacur wormer way of worming in a decade and never ever thought of the daily other then to discuss it with a few vets.In fact the vets I've talked to about the daily wormers are not enthused with that method for several differant reasons. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 954
Location: Hagerstown, MD | Beth, thanks so much for taking the time to post all this information! I really appreicate all the research you did and the way you have presented it as well. I'm headed out to the feed store this afternoon and will get the wormers for my guys. I'll make sure not to get things crossed up with heavy dosing all of them and tape worming my 5 yr. old mare. It sounds to me like you are right on track with helping me get my barn back in order. thanks again and happy trails. |
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Veteran
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Location: Urbana,MD | Please remember that safegaurd , and panacur do not kill tapes nor do they kill the encisted stongles.The new wormers out moxidection(spelling?)Quest or combo care do.But there are a few mixes that have the tapeworm included.I use the daily wormer strongid.If your horses look good after using the power pack for a week why wouldn't you continue them on the daily wormer?It is strongid too.The same ingredents as panacur and safeguard.My guys look healthy all the time.They constantly rid of worms.I do use the tapeworm /moxidection spring and fall also to rid of bots and tapes and anything that may of got encysted.Horses on daily wormer look healthier.Mine have been on it for years.If you add up the costs of old fashioned worming (every 2 months) the cost wold probally be the same. |
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Location: KY | I use "combocare" when I suspect tapeworms, its moxidectin and praziquantel. The box says it will also get encysted cyathostomes. Have never used the powerpak thing. Sometimes I will get on a kick of adding stuff, part of that is due to my enjoyment of mixing things together...think I am a thwarted mad chemist. who knows........... |
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Veteran
Posts: 225
Location: Urbana,MD | ok.....just got back from the feed store.Looked at the wormers.I was wrong the power pack does kill the ensysted worms. |
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Expert
Posts: 1205
Location: Danielsville Georgia | Reason some don't like a daily wormer is that they lose their natural resistance to worms.Your introducing a posion everday into their system and if you take a horse off a daily such as you sold it etc.the worn infestation can hit them bad as their natural resistance has been hindered.Lots of horses and how their kept, a worming every two months is to much.I worm a average of every 90 days.A friend of mine in the midwest its twice a year.I have studs that have gone yearly and then mainly to remove bots.Ones in training with no grass turnout don't have a chance to pick up larva.I do have fecals checked from time to time.Weanlings I do more often as they don't have natural resistance built up but you have to watch how often so they will get some natural resistance.This is what vets have brought up in discussions about daily wormers.I have also read such in noted magizine articles.Differant types of horse keeping requires differant avenues.Some products and posted time lines to use them are great and some are just to make money off you because your a caring horse owner.Weather makes a differance.Times of drought egg counts in fields drop etc.You have to figure out what works in your own situation and that might change because of locations or weather etc. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 954
Location: Hagerstown, MD | I just got back from the feed store and was told that a power pack wormer will sometimes take care of tape worms too. Not everytime, but sometimes. I'm going to do the power pack wormer on the 21 yr. old gelding and the 5 yr. old mare. If I get good results on both, then problem solved. If the gelding gets better and mare doesn't, then the mare might still have a tape worm. We'll see what happens and I'll keep everyone updated on what's going on. Happy trails. |
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Veteran
Posts: 209
Location: pensacola, fl |
I used a Huge tube of Safeguard that was made to treat a 1000lb horse for 4 days and then I bought a regular tube of it for the 5th day and it was for up to a 1200lb horse, so I only had to do it once a day, I didn't see any of them for a 550lb horse and instead of fighting the horses to worm them, I just mixed it with water in thier beet pulp and they ate it right down. |
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Elite Veteran
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Location: Hagerstown, MD | A friend of mine use to work at a TB track as an excercise rider and told me that they would often mix the wormer in the feed. TB's in a stall and trying to stick something in their mouth is not something I would want to do everyday either. I went to work with her a few times and those horses are down right scary! Saw a hot walker get a horrible bite from a TB while she was walking by the stall. That experience sort of finished me off with TB's. Well most of them anyway. There are 3 that live across the street from me that are pretty good. ;-) |
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Expert
Posts: 1205
Location: Danielsville Georgia | Tapes are easy to remove according to vets.The ivermectin with tape remover should be used once a year.Hey I'll go out on a limb.If anyone cares to see fairly recent photos of some of my stock and a few I'm running ads on that are for sale.Plus a few in training e/mail me.Signalfire@alltel.net |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 954
Location: Hagerstown, MD | hounddog, I don't think you are going out on a limb and I don't think you are doing anything wrong. I don't have a problem with it anyway. Good luck on moving some of your stock. Happy trails. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 378
Location: Nebraska |
Edited by hconley 2007-01-06 11:41 PM
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Expert
Posts: 1205
Location: Danielsville Georgia | I didn't mean out on a limb in the way of trying to sell anything.I would like to compare and see examples of horses in the flesh.Would be nice to see some of the ones that have been discused as being to thin or in poor flesh.Also about these animals needng more weight(if they really do)what are they being fed now and in what amount.How much are they used.What kind of weather and temps are they exposed to.A lot is lost in the keyboard is all. |
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Member
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Location: macon, ga. | I have been feeding scandanavian oats for 5 yrs. my horses stay fat on a minimum amt. each day along with quality hay. they may get a handful of sweetfeed (all grain) daily to mix with oats just to give oats a little more flavor.
Edited by bluecat 2007-01-18 4:02 PM
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 954
Location: Hagerstown, MD | What is the difference in regular oats and scandanavian oats. Where do you find them and please don't say, "scandinavia". How expensive are they per pound and what makes them so special? thanks. |
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Member
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Location: macon, ga. |
Edited by bluecat 2007-01-18 4:00 PM
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Member
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Location: macon, ga. |
Edited by bluecat 2007-01-18 4:01 PM
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Member
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Location: macon, ga. | scandinavian oats weigh 42lbs. to the bushel compared to reg. oats 32lbs. bushel. they are bright, long grain, heavy, cold weather oats. reg. oats are brown in color. my supplier is midga feed in montezuma, ga. they get their oats from canada. the last bulk oats i bought cost about .13 lb.
Edited by bluecat 2007-01-18 4:02 PM
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 954
Location: Hagerstown, MD | bluecat, that's a pretty good value considering I'm paying not much less than that for regular oats here locally. Thanks again for the info. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 644
Location: Odenville, Alabama | I like to feed oats. Our local equine vet clinic Coosa Valley Equine Center, only feeds oats to convalescing horses. The problem I see, is when you feed supplements, they don't stick to the oats like they do on a sweet feed, so some of my horses don't eat the supplements. Oats are a good feed for horses. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 954
Location: Hagerstown, MD | I suppose they would feed the oats since they are pretty easy to digest? Since they have a lot of protein, I would also guess they aid in the healing process? Plus the fact that the horses will eat oats when they won't eat other stuff you put in front of them. Recently I switched my guys from added oats to added cracked corn to add a little fat on them. My youngest mare refused to eat for a couple of days. I was really surprised at that one. I gave in and mixed in less and less oats and more and more corn until she was o.k. and cleaning her tub. Thanks for the input on what your vet uses. |
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feeding oats?
