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Location: Southern IN | Hey all !! I'm new to the forum but have visited as a "guest" for a while. I have a question for ya. I'm new to diesels and hauling with them.
I have a '98 Dodge Ram 3500 24 valve turbo diesel and pull an '04 3h/sl/gn Featherlite ( 4 ft short wall but unfinished dr/lq), usually only 2 horses in the trailer. I've been warned against hauling with OD on, but when I turn it off, it tacs really high, esp on a long grade. The tranny was replaced by Dodge and a larger torque converter put in (by the previous owner), all still under warantee..dont want to hurt the tranny, but concerned about the high tac reading when off. Do I use OD or not??
Also,have been told that "as maintenance" I should be using about 3 qts of auto trans oil in the fuel tank about every other fill up to lube the injectors. Is this good advice? She has 171,000 miles on her. Oil changes at every 2500-3000 miles with Rotella.
I'm leaving for MO for a trail ride next week, so any advice is apprecitated..... |
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Location: Malta, Il | I have never heard of anyone suggesting putting oil in fuel tank. the diesel fuel that we buy today has additives already in it and it will provide all the lubrication needed for the injectors. The high rpm's you reach climbing a long grade is caused by the higher rear end ratio in your truck. Most of the problems with the overdrives are not caused by climbing steep grades because the tranny shifts down out of o-drive. the problem is when it repeatedly shifts in and out of od, which causes them to slip and creates heat. I personally wouldn't worry about manually shifting tranny let it work on its own. Make sure you check oil in the trans and change the fluid and filter on scedhule. |
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Extreme Veteran
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Location: Albany, Oregon | Backin, I've got the same trailer on my third Dodge. I only lock out the overdrive when it doesn't want to stay there. You will learn when it can't pull the load and wants to kick out. The "hunting" is what kills the autos..I drive mine like a manual. I have learned when it will "automaticly" shift down and I do it manually I keep it in a gear that fits the grade and leave it there. I don't religiosly use any additives myself, and I use Delo 400 every 5000mi. |
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Expert
Posts: 2689
 
| Originally written by Backin3 on 2006-05-18 8:20 AM
Hey all !! I'm new to the forum but have visited as a "guest" for a while. I have a question for ya. I'm new to diesels and hauling with them.
I have a '98 Dodge Ram 3500 24 valve turbo diesel and pull an '04 3h/sl/gn Featherlite ( 4 ft short wall but unfinished dr/lq), usually only 2 horses in the trailer. I've been warned against hauling with OD on, but when I turn it off, it tacs really high, esp on a long grade. The tranny was replaced by Dodge and a larger torque converter put in (by the previous owner), all still under warantee..dont want to hurt the tranny, but concerned about the high tac reading when off. Do I use OD or not??
Also,have been told that "as maintenance" I should be using about 3 qts of auto trans oil in the fuel tank about every other fill up to lube the injectors. Is this good advice? She has 171,000 miles on her. Oil changes at every 2500-3000 miles with Rotella.
I'm leaving for MO for a trail ride next week, so any advice is apprecitated.....
Hi and Welcome.
O/D lockout and tow/haul mode are things that can be be followed to the letter of the owners manual or with some discretion borne of experience. If it is "hunting" on particular sections of where YOU drive with YOUR load, then it is probably a good idea to lock it out - at least on the climbs. If you don't like the higher revs then it can ALSO be a good idea to back off the pressure on the right foot and just let it take it's time on the climbs.
Since it is a 3500 you MIGHT have 4.+ rear axle, in which case it WILL rev high in all but the O/D if you try to keep the speed up.
WRT trannie oil in the fuel tank:
I have been told that by truckers, though not in recent years, a quart per 90 gallons IIRC. I've done it, I've also tried 2 stroke oil after reading too much paranoia about the lack of lubricity in low sulphur fuels.
To some extent I think this follows the STP pattern; GREAT marketing that generated a lot of fear in people that bad things would happen if they didn't use it, never any proven benefit, a flood of substitutes which were equally ineffective at doing anything very much, etc. Probably the biggest problem with diesel fuel is (lack of) cleanliness, additives won't help with that, better filtration MIGHT, although a filter that isn't clogging up very often probably isn't stopping very much from going through (-:
FWIW, GM specifically does not recommend use of diesel fuel additives and has some weasle words (that I don't recall exactly) that are more or less against their use.
Edited by Reg 2006-05-18 10:44 AM
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 366
Location: Albany, Oregon | Backin, Your axle ratio is listed on a tag pasted to the hood. It will tell you if you have limited slip also. 98 had a choice of 3:50 or 4:10. 70mph=about 2000rpm with the 3:50's
Edited by xyzer 2006-05-18 10:34 AM
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Member
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Location: Southern IN | Thanks, guys, I appreciate your input !!
Re: the trans oil in the fuel, was also told (by same friend) to add STP at every oil change which didnt seem as questionable as the other "tip". I've had ALL other fluids changed in last 5,000 miles ( oil, brake, transmission, differential) including flush and refill on radiator.
Also, will check for that tag you mentioned when I get off work this pm. I dont have any probs with it "searching" for gears/shifting in and out of OD since I replaced the muffler ( which had been cut out) and added a larger tailpipe. (Was told this had something to do with "back pressure" thru the muffler??? Oh well, it worked, so I dont care why......) I was just asking about OD since I was told NOT to haul in OD yet it seems to just go right along REALLY well in OD.
I LOVE my truck AND trailer and can't wait to "hit the trails"! Thanks, again!
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Expert
Posts: 2689
| STP does NOTHING for your engine or you, except help lighten your pockets - even that is a maybe.
Unfortunately it (the Mahh_ketting of oil additives) has become so embedded in the sub-culture of driveway mechanics that it is hard to get rid of the belief that STP is a small price to pay for some extra "insurance".
"Its a lot cheaper than a new engine" is something you will probably hear a lot, but they blithely ignore the FACT that you won't need a new engine as a direct result of not pouring that stuff in.
SUMMARY: FERGET_IT !!!
We pour enough money into our tanks and sumps as it is.
You will not find ONE credible report that STP has a positive benefit to anyone other than those involved in it's production, distribution, sale and "promotion".
Similarly the trannie oil in the fuel, you don't NEED it, it is a waste of money, though I can't say for sure that it is in any way harmful. There may be negative reports about the practice, but truck forums are a better place to discuss it.
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Posts: 225
Location: Kansas City | Okay, I would not add transmission fluid to diesel fuel. Several reasons. One being is the computers of today are super sophisticated and detect all sorts of performance data that we can't even comprehend. It's why some tuneups consist of downloading patches instead of turning wrenches. Adding ATF may have worked in the old days and may work today but the risk outweighs any potential gain. There are additives that are especially made for diesel fuel - many may argue their value - but at least those products are performance specific. I included two links on products I sell (though don't take this as a sales pitch - I'm sure you can buy similar products where you wish). In general I believe recent year model vehicles need very little in the way of added "expertise" from their owners.
http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/adm.aspx
http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/acb.aspx
Barry
www.mosynthetics.com |
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Expert
Posts: 1205
Location: Danielsville Georgia | ATF has propertys in it(zinc etc) that on electronic injection can score injector bodys and injection pump.It was used YEARS ago on big rigs as a cleaner with mech.injection and MUCH larger injector bores etc.Use of Howes and ANY number of other DIESEL additives(made to be added to fuel) PER the label won't hurt a thing. To tow at anything over 40 mphs per hour O.D.has to be left on.Only lock out at moderate speed on BIG inclines or in a searching situation. Try www.turbodieselregister.com and www.Dieseltruckresource.com for more reading on Dodge diesels
Edited by hounddog 2006-05-18 1:21 PM
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New User
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Location: shelbyville,ky | I read your question and believe me I am not an expert. However, I have 2002 dodge single wheel and I pull a 3 horse 10' LQ w/ 2to3 horses (when I am completely loaded approx. 14K lbs +/-, and I use my OD. When I am on back road, hill country, city etc, I turn OD off, on flat highway it stays on and I run 70-80. I have been pulling this trailer with this truck for 4 years and have yet to have any tranny problems. |
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.jpg) Expert
Posts: 2828
Location: Southern New Mexico | We just got a 02 dodge turbodiesel and my husband used it to take our 31ft 5th wheel to NM last week. He said the only time he turned the OD off was when it was going up some of the "hills" (and from here everything is uphill) and kept shifting. Other than that he left it on. It ran great, used lots of gas (about $400 round trip!!) but that is another thread. Hopefully since my horse trailer isnt as high profile it won't cost quite so much when I take it up to NM. OH, it also tacks really high with the OD off.
Edited by Terri 2006-05-18 5:22 PM
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Expert
Posts: 1205
Location: Danielsville Georgia | Did it really use gas Terri? Thats worse then trans fliud in it! LOL |
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Posts: 2828
Location: Southern New Mexico | Sorry, I've only had it a month. I haven't gotten used to typing fuel or diesel yet. As long as I remember to grab the right nozzel......... |
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Expert
Posts: 1205
Location: Danielsville Georgia | Watch out when fueling.GREEN means DIESEL and some fueling stops put a green cover on the WRONG nozzels.Neighbor was in a hurry one day and filled up and after topping it off it dawned on him! Darn GAS.Had a green cover on the nozzel.He gave the fuel stop a EARFUL.Had to have it towed,drained etc. |
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Expert
Posts: 2689
| Originally written by hounddog on 2006-05-18 9:08 PM
Watch out when fueling.GREEN means DIESEL and some fueling stops put a green cover on the WRONG nozzels.Neighbor was in a hurry one day and filled up and after topping it off it dawned on him! Darn GAS.Had a green cover on the nozzel.He gave the fuel stop a EARFUL.Had to have it towed,drained etc.
I've commented on this before. I don't know of any required standard for the color coding of fuel fill nozzles, but...
Green (and some yellow) is the BP corporate color and part of their branding.
I'm FAIRLY sure that at their stations BLACK is the color of the sleeve on the diesel fuel nozzles and GREEN is the color of the sleeves on the gasoline nozzles.
Since it's BP that should probably be "COLOUR" and "petrol" ?
{never mind}
So yes, stay awake, READ the signage, don't rely ONLY on colour clues, at least know the difference in smell, don't blame anyone else if you screw up.
BTW, a small percentage is OK. If you've only put a few gallons in before you wake up and there is space in your tank just fill it up with the right stuff and go. Personally I wouldn't worry below about 20%, maybe a bit higher in the winter.
Otto 4-cycle;
suck, squeeze, bang, blow...
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Posts: 2689
| Originally written by Terri on 2006-05-18 8:01 PM
Sorry, I've only had it a month. I haven't gotten used to typing fuel or diesel yet. As long as I remember to grab the right nozzel.........
Remember also that the "Ignition key" - isn't.
(-:
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Location: Northern IN. | Reg, Yer killin' me, that's too funny, BP and the whole Brit. thing....I got it. Anyhow I just wanted to add that back a few yrs. ago it was possible to "burn up" a tranny, even without it shifting back and fourth between drive and OD (just staying in O.D.). It could happen due to what is called torque converter lock-up. When the tourque converter would slip between lock up and not, that created a lot of heat and would burn and glaze pieces-parts. This can happen when a trans. is staying in a single "gear". HOWEVER, fear not truck drivers.... the auto wizards have realized this little issue and have since made the transmissions so that anytime the rig is in OD it makes the torque converter STAY in lock-up, soooo..... in some cases it is actually "safer"(for your equipment) and cooler (on the equipment) to run with your rig IN overdrive. Cool, huh!?! |
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Location: PA | Take the OD off until you hit 55mph, then put it on and keep it on as long as you can easily maintain a speed of 55 and up. If you get on a hill and the rig starts to lug down and the RPMs drop to 1800, take off the OD and let the truck down shift. Then use you gas pedal to keep the RPMs at around 2500 (below where the truck wants to shift) so that the engine works for you and doesn't try to find gears. |
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Posts: 2828
Location: Southern New Mexico | Remember also that the "Ignition key" - isn't. What? Is this something the sales man forgot to tell me? |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 366
Location: Albany, Oregon | Originally written by Terri on 2006-05-19 9:49 AM Remember also that the "Ignition key" - isn't. What? Is this something the sales man forgot to tell me? |
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Posts: 2689
| Originally written by Terri on 2006-05-19 12:49 PM
Remember also that the "Ignition key" - isn't. What? Is this something the sales man forgot to tell me?
"Ignition" and "Ignition System parts" relate to them thangs like spark plugs, ignition coils, spark plug wires and (formerly) distributors.
Klattermotors have glow plugs and/or intake air heaters, but rely on compression for "Ignition". The key doesn't turn on an electrical system to make any sparks to light up the fuel.
Compression Ignition, aka Diesel or Otto cycle;
suck, squeeze, bang, blow...
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| re the O/D lock-out "feature".
I had thought about starting a thread on tow/haul modes and O/D lock-out.
My basic thought was to spell out that; "Not all tow/haul modes are created equal."
As an example, the Allison 5 speed (now 6) automatic in the GM and Chevvy trucks also has a grade braking feature that causes the transmission to shift down if you apply and release the brakes on a down grade but the vehicle subsequently speeds up. Kinda smart, but kinda annoying until you get used to it and/or learn to use it to do what you want the way you want it. This transmission also gets into it's top gear at about 55/58 on a light pedal and as long as you don't kick it down it will behave the same in tow/haul as it does out of tow/haul.
The Dodge Durango is DIFFERENT ! Tow/haul moves the shift points, but you NEVER get into 5th and there is no grade braking feature. OK, arguably it isn't a truck, just a SUV/truckette wannabe, my point is that it behaves differently. Not "wrong", it just has a different set of rules programmed into it.
It also has an annoying habit of shifting down on downgrades when cruise control is engaged, this wouldn't be too bad if there was any engine braking to be had, but it just revs the heck out of that big hemi and the thing still gains speed.
I'd guess the Fords are different again. Dodge full sized trucks are different to the Durango - which is probably the same as the Dakota, though I'm only guessing at that.
Part of what I'm saying is that our experiences of O/D lockout and Tow/haul are a function of WHICH truck or suv we drive and our answers might not always fit the question asked if the o/p has a different make/model.
FWIW, etc.
PS
Maybe I'll go out and test drive a few other trucks next week... purely for "research" purposes - to help me answer questions here, etc.
(-:
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Location: PA | The 6.0 Fords don't have an overdrive any more. The 7.3 ones do. The new FOrds have the tow/haul mode that you just keep on while hauling. It works very nicely. |
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Location: sc | Originally written by Reg on 2006-05-19 7:39 PM
re the O/D lock-out "feature". I had thought about starting a thread on tow/haul modes and O/D lock-out. My basic thought was to spell out that; "Not all tow/haul modes are created equal." As an example, the Allison 5 speed (now 6) automatic in the GM and Chevvy trucks also has a grade braking feature that causes the transmission to shift down if you apply and release the brakes on a down grade but the vehicle subsequently speeds up. Kinda smart, but kinda annoying until you get used to it and/or learn to use it to do what you want the way you want it. This transmission also gets into it's top gear at about 55/58 on a light pedal and as long as you don't kick it down it will behave the same in tow/haul as it does out of tow/haul. The Dodge Durango is DIFFERENT ! Tow/haul moves the shift points, but you NEVER get into 5th and there is no grade braking feature. OK, arguably it isn't a truck, just a SUV/truckette wannabe, my point is that it behaves differently. Not "wrong", it just has a different set of rules programmed into it. It also has an annoying habit of shifting down on downgrades when cruise control is engaged, this wouldn't be too bad if there was any engine braking to be had, but it just revs the heck out of that big hemi and the thing still gains speed. I'd guess the Fords are different again. Dodge full sized trucks are different to the Durango - which is probably the same as the Dakota, though I'm only guessing at that. Part of what I'm saying is that our experiences of O/D lockout and Tow/haul are a function of WHICH truck or suv we drive and our answers might not always fit the question asked if the o/p has a different make/model. FWIW, etc. PS Maybe I'll go out and test drive a few other trucks next week... purely for "research" purposes - to help me answer questions here, etc. (-: well that would be an interesting thread. |
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Posts: 1416
Location: sc | Originally written by hav2ride on 2006-05-20 10:34 AM
The 6.0 Fords don't have an overdrive any more. The 7.3 ones do. The new FOrds have the tow/haul mode that you just keep on while hauling. It works very nicely. sure they do. depending on what you consider overdrive, technically in a modern vehicle it is top gear, 4th, 5th and becoming more common 6th. or typically any gear in the tranny less than 1 to 1 (i.e. in the ford torqshift 5th is .71 to 1) would be overdrive. the new ally is basically a "double over" as the 5th is .71 and 6th is .61............looking for the mpg. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 366
Location: Albany, Oregon | The "06" Dodge Rams now have 3 transmision operating configurations. Standard, Tow Haul, and OD off. The Tow haul alters the shift points , it also has a larger pump that allows for more downhill Whow. It is also approved for a Exhaust brake, finally! |
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Diesels????
