3800 Views, 50+ posts, Shut down?
HWBar
Reg. Nov 2005
Posted 2006-01-11 5:42 AM (#35287)
Subject: 3800 Views, 50+ posts, Shut down?



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All because a major advertiser is getting beat up a little! Not quite an open forum HuH?
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deranger
Reg. Jan 2004
Posted 2006-01-11 5:49 AM (#35288 - in reply to #35287)
Subject: RE: 3800 Views, 50+ posts, Shut down?


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HWBar, please explain your comment, I'm confused as to what you meant.
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HWBar
Reg. Nov 2005
Posted 2006-01-11 6:30 AM (#35291 - in reply to #35287)
Subject: RE: 3800 Views, 50+ posts, Shut down?



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What part is it you're haveing the problem with, That the forum(thread) got shut down about the Sundowner Vouchers? Sundowner being a major advertiser to the site? Or that the moderator(owner) stopped taking post to that thread(open forum)?
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hosspuller
Reg. Oct 2003
Posted 2006-01-11 7:37 AM (#35295 - in reply to #35287)
Subject: RE: 3800 Views, 50+ posts, Shut down?


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The last series of posts on that thread was from an anonymous poster swinging innuendo like Sundowner was a piñata. 

Threads that devolve into a bash fest from anonymous posters should be locked. The thread is still there to be read for good information, but the riot is over.  

Internet info is only as good as the posters reputation.  Anonymous posters have no reputation to uphold so they will spew junk.   (E-bay's rating system was a master stroke to its success. )

Moderation is what keeps the forum worth reading.  Otherwise it's like the stall walls of a public restroom.

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Texas Butch
Reg. Oct 2003
Posted 2006-01-11 7:54 AM (#35299 - in reply to #35287)
Subject: RE: 3800 Views, 50+ posts, Shut down?


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Hosspuller:  Well said - I always enjoy your comments.  You seem to always say what I am thinking.
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bd1
Reg. Dec 2005
Posted 2006-01-11 8:24 AM (#35302 - in reply to #35287)
Subject: RE: 3800 Views, 50+ posts, Shut down?


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Location: ok

hoss, what about all the other people bashing sundowner BEFORE the anonymous user joined in? (cant wait to hear this answer) i agree... open forum? dont think so...

p.s. hwbar...get used to that sort of thing around here...they rate you on how many posts you have, not what you actually know



Edited by bd1 2006-01-11 8:28 AM
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HWBar
Reg. Nov 2005
Posted 2006-01-11 8:24 AM (#35303 - in reply to #35287)
Subject: RE: 3800 Views, 50+ posts, Shut down?



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I agree about the last post from "truth" guy were a bit harsh, but there were alot of folks getting good information on the voucher program. At least three people in the thread were directly affected by the program. Plus there was one in the thread that knew someone that was holding a voucher thinking they were going to get the money back. I just hate it that when it seems like something is helping folks we have to be looking out for some big company that should have known better to ever let this scam happen on their property. And yes the dealers mentioned in the thread were at the time and continue to be owned in some fashion by the parent company.
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Flooper
Reg. Aug 2004
Posted 2006-01-11 8:49 AM (#35307 - in reply to #35287)
Subject: RE: 3800 Views, 50+ posts, Shut down?


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I think that thread had run its course. It was spiraling out of control pretty fast, and going from informative and educational to just plain nasty. I agree with Hosspuller...the mods let the thread continue until it got to the point where it was no longer giving people useful information. And, as was pointed out, the thread was just closed, not deleted. I consider that responsible forum administration, not censorship or protection of an advertiser. If they really wanted to protect Sundowner, the thread would have been deleted after the very first post. Ever been on an unmoderated forum...it ain't fun, and it can make the forum useless.
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hosspuller
Reg. Oct 2003
Posted 2006-01-11 9:06 AM (#35309 - in reply to #35302)
Subject: RE: 3800 Views, 50+ posts, Shut down?


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Originally written by bd1 on 2006-01-11 7:24 AM

hoss, what about all the other people bashing sundowner BEFORE the anonymous user joined in? (cant wait to hear this answer) i agree... open forum? dont think so...

p.s. hwbar...get used to that sort of thing around here...they rate you on how many posts you have, not what you actually know

bd1:  I'll assume you were addressing my last post ... and number of posts.  Here's your much anticipated reply...

The fact you cited, other people bashing Sundowner before the thread was locked proves the open-ness of the forum discussion.  It wasn't all sweetness to Sundowner.  A Sundowner contact was published for all concerned with the vouchers.  I consider that a piece of valuable information.

In all things, balance is key. 

As to the number of my posts, I happen to like participating in discussions on a subject I've spent much time and money.  I get valuble information.  I hope the info I share in return is valuable to someone.  The ratings as you called them, aren't ratings, just labels. Maybe, to encourage participation by the forum owners.  You would see this if you would spend some time here reading as opposed to spewing about how someone keeps THEIR house clean.  We are all guests on this site.  A respectful guest never complains about their host. 

I wouldn't tolerate a whinney guest in my house.  Dave does,  He is much nicer than I.

 

 

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barry
Reg. May 2005
Posted 2006-01-11 10:36 AM (#35320 - in reply to #35287)
Subject: RE: 3800 Views, 50+ posts, Shut down?



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Post is closed. Post is still there for all to read.  Those are indeed "facts" for those who want facts.  Another "fact."  It's Dave's sandbox.  I can either play in his yard or pickup my toys and go home.  Life's tough - wear a helmet!

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bits
Reg. Jun 2005
Posted 2006-01-11 11:41 AM (#35327 - in reply to #35287)
Subject: RE: 3800 Views, 50+ posts, Shut down?


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Posts: 16

Location: SC
Barry  Well Said! I think that the useful info was tapped out and all that was left from anonymous posts was. I hope things work out well for these folks with vouchers and the rest of us should get back to horses and such. Springs a comin
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Flush
Reg. Jan 2005
Posted 2006-01-11 2:21 PM (#35335 - in reply to #35287)
Subject: RE: 3800 Views, 50+ posts, Shut down?


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Well, I learned a LOT from that thread.

I learned that the the horse trailer business IMHO is a very shady industry at best. Apparently there are some real good dealers and some real bad ones!

I learned in the horse trailer business that some of the trailer manufactures believe they are no way tied to any of the dealings of their dealers regardless of what they do. I'm the last person to advocate suing, but I think this voucher case is a prime candidate for a class action suit. Let the legal folks determine if the dealer/manufacturer truly bears no responsibility. The simple fact those dealers are no longer affiliated with the manufacturer, in no way means the manufacturer bears no liability. It may pan out that way, but I don't think anything has been proven with the facts presented here.

And most importantly I learned this board is crawling with dealers. I have no problem with dealers participating, as I am sure they have a lot to add to discussions, but it sure would be nice if dealers were identified as such. I really appreciate the dealer who openly did identify themselves, it shows class and it also shows they have nothing to hide. What does that say about the "secret" dealers?

I also learned I will never be buying a trailer from a Sundowner dealer in Cheyenne WY!

-Flush (A joe-nobody with nothing to sell you)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Jbsny
Reg. Apr 2004
Posted 2006-01-11 2:38 PM (#35337 - in reply to #35287)
Subject: RE: 3800 Views, 50+ posts, Shut down?


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What a shame that slamming still goes on.

It doesn't matter who is on the boards, I think most people have an idea who gives good advice and who doesn't.

This board exists from income from somewhere. If it didn't have ads/sell ads/ or have dealers, we'd be on a yahoo email list.

And this board's format is way preferable to that.

Jbsny

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KCW
Reg. Nov 2003
Posted 2006-01-11 3:43 PM (#35341 - in reply to #35287)
Subject: RE: 3800 Views, 50+ posts, Shut down?



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The Great Voucher Fraud..........

Think the whole deal was a screw up on the
part of a Sundowner Dealer, not the factory!

This should be a lesson learned by both dealers and manfacturers
(Keep an eye on your dealers - all programs must be factory approved).

That´s what I think. KCW US Flag 
 =|:-)=



Edited by KCW 2006-01-12 5:52 PM
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THE TRUTH ON SD
Reg. Jan 2006
Posted 2006-01-11 10:09 PM (#35360 - in reply to #35287)
Subject: RE: 3800 Views, 50+ posts, Shut down?


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Posts: 4

The "factory" WAS/IS the "DEALER". There are public records of that. I do not understand why some are freaked out over this knowledge. Its known among the Sundowner dealer body, just ask any Sundowner dealer, they will tell you. Its already public knowledge. I blew no whistles here folks!
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deranger
Reg. Jan 2004
Posted 2006-01-12 6:01 AM (#35364 - in reply to #35360)
Subject: RE: 3800 Views, 50+ posts, Shut down?


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to The Truth on SD,in my humble opinion you are out of line, out of time and not helping anyone with your posts. Stop now please.
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horsey1
Reg. Dec 2004
Posted 2006-01-12 8:11 AM (#35371 - in reply to #35287)
Subject: RE: 3800 Views, 50+ posts, Shut down?


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DeRanger,
I hate to say it, but Truth is right. Its never been a big secret that Sundowner owned the Superstores. Have for a long time. And they were the only ones that participated in the voucher program.

Edited by horsey1 2006-01-12 8:20 AM
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THE TRUTH ON SD
Reg. Jan 2006
Posted 2006-01-12 9:19 AM (#35374 - in reply to #35287)
Subject: RE: 3800 Views, 50+ posts, Shut down?


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Posts: 4

"DeRanger,
I hate to say it, but Truth is right. It’s never been a big secret that Sundowner owned the Superstores. Have for a long time. And they were the only ones that participated in the voucher program."

 

Horsey1, THANK YOU! By restating that information is in no way bashing Sundowner whatsoever. And on the contrary to DeRangers' “humble opinion” I feel that information will be a tremendous help for those suffering the repercussions of the voucher program. Here is why; if those affected by the voucher program feel they are at a total loss due to the fact Bryant Jones is no longer there, as Sundowner Corp informed, then they might be under the assumption they stand to gain nothing AT ALL. Now, knowing that the MFG. Had and still has ownership in that particular dealership, the consumer will have some leverage to try and get Corp. to accept partial responsibility or allow Sundowner to “make it right” with them. I think that is what readers would assume when they read my post. I should have stated the obvious so everyone could keep up with the conversation. So I believe that I am being helpful to those that are directly affected by this tragic situation.



Edited by THE TRUTH ON SD 2006-01-12 9:23 AM
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Reg
Reg. Oct 2003
Posted 2006-01-12 10:28 AM (#35376 - in reply to #35287)
Subject: RE: 3800 Views, 50+ posts, Shut down?


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Edited by Reg 2006-01-12 11:18 AM
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KCW
Reg. Nov 2003
Posted 2006-01-12 11:52 AM (#35378 - in reply to #35376)
Subject: RE: 3800 Views, 50+ posts, Shut down?



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Reg, what no post? It ain't like you to leave blanks!

KCW   Email: karl1952@email.com


Edited by KCW 2006-01-12 11:53 AM
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maccwall
Reg. May 2004
Posted 2006-01-12 12:31 PM (#35385 - in reply to #35378)
Subject: RE: 3800 Views, 50+ posts, Shut down?



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I soon see this getting shut down also.

I think Reg bit his tounge...LOL

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huntseat
Reg. Oct 2003
Posted 2006-01-12 1:12 PM (#35388 - in reply to #35287)
Subject: RE: 3800 Views, 50+ posts, Shut down?


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It's been a long time since I graced the boards but I'm back now.

I almost had a client purchase during the voucher program.  I made her read all the tiny print and she found out it was full of things that made her hair stand-up.  She wasn't having any part of it and now I'm so glad.

The sad part is that the name Sundowner has taken a huge hit in the public eye.  With the market being so close I don't know how they'll keep pushing trailers the way they do.  This black mark may never come off the brand.

The really sad part is the small local dealers that sell the brand may be hit the hardest.  Once bitten twice shy, may put some of them out of business.  The larger company owned stores will survive.

When you have a name that the public trusts and looks up to, you are obligated to protect them.  Like Ford did with the Firestone tires, Ford didn't say well take it up with Firestone, did they?  Instead they took care of their customers and replaced the tires because customer service IS job #1!

*exiting soap box*



Edited by huntseat 2006-01-12 1:14 PM
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KCW
Reg. Nov 2003
Posted 2006-01-12 2:55 PM (#35393 - in reply to #35388)
Subject: RE: 3800 Views, 50+ posts, Shut down?



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huntseat, @ --->--->--
You've always come through with some top notch
stuff in your posts. Another great example 35388.
We're gonna to make you set next to Reg.....LOL

I don't beleive the impact of this will harm Sundowner
or it's dealers in the long run. It'll blow over........
We all make mistakes!

All of this voucher crap has nothing to do with the 
QUALITY of Sundowner's Product. Dealer mistake.
The whole voucher deal was to good to be true and
eveyone should have known that. There is something
to be said about common sense. 

Screw up and get smart!

KCW   Email: karl1952@email.com

(_)3
 Miller Time
  \%/Tequila



Edited by KCW 2006-01-12 6:39 PM
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laxpatrick
Reg. Aug 2004
Posted 2006-01-12 3:36 PM (#35395 - in reply to #35287)
Subject: RE: 3800 Views, 50+ posts, Shut down?


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This is NOT an open forum - just like pretty much anywhere on the web, its got rules which are what they are at the moment and can and will be changed at any time to suit the needs of the forum owner and its sponsors/advertisers. 

That's the right of the individuals who run this corner of the web!

As participants we have the privilege of participating in this forum.

LAXPatrick

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Reg
Reg. Oct 2003
Posted 2006-01-12 4:56 PM (#35397 - in reply to #35385)
Subject: RE: 3800 Views, 50+ posts, Shut down?


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Actually I posted something about this being commercial space.
NOT UUCP, not .edu, not alt.opinions.horse_trailer_manufacturers.bashing.

Dave's "sandbox", Dave's rules, etc.
Commercial advertisers (sponsors) pay the rent, keep the lights on for us, etc.
Stay only if you like it enough to stay within the rules (well, almost within).

There are PLENTY of open, I mean TOTALLY OPEN forums, go play there too if you want, but when you come back here the rules is the rules.
Oh, rec.equestrian if you want to REALLY stir up things - and people.

.com is the clue about THIS place (-:

Then I edited it all to blank.

Reg the transgressor.
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deranger
Reg. Jan 2004
Posted 2006-01-12 6:12 PM (#35398 - in reply to #35371)
Subject: RE: 3800 Views, 50+ posts, Shut down?


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horsey1, I don't care who is right about the big secret! I don't like secrets. I don't care who owns what super store. I could care less about some stupid voucher program and I'd like to move on to talking about trailers, trucks, horses and other fun things on this forum.
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deranger
Reg. Jan 2004
Posted 2006-01-12 6:23 PM (#35399 - in reply to #35374)
Subject: RE: 3800 Views, 50+ posts, Shut down?


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What tragic situation? I thought all consumers knew that "buyer beware" was not just for real estate! Please go read what huntseat had to say about all this super secret super store stuff. Huntseat just proved that all anyone had to do was read some fine print and I call that "taking care of business." The tragedy in all this is that somebody is getting a bashing because some consumers can't read. What a pity.
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jeffghs
Reg. Jan 2004
Posted 2006-01-12 6:46 PM (#35401 - in reply to #35287)
Subject: RE: 3800 Views, 50+ posts, Shut down?



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I also think this topic has reached its limit. By continuing this you put many things in jeopardy including this site both through possible legal liability and through the loss of advertising dollars. The Truth on SD: Why don't you go build your own website and spill the beans on Sundowner if that's how you feel, I am certain you could post a link in a thread and you could put whatever you want out there. That way you can absorb whatever liability may come from it rather than try to keep putting it off on this site.I really appreciate this site and the forums here. I can't even count the many things I have learned here, and I would hate to see anything cause it to go away, either through legal action or loss of funding. Looking at it objectively, why would any manufacturer pay money to have their brand or business bashed.
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hosspuller
Reg. Oct 2003
Posted 2006-01-12 7:58 PM (#35403 - in reply to #35401)
Subject: RE: 3800 Views, 50+ posts, Shut down?


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There's still some distance in this thread...

I wish I had kept the literature from the voucher program.  I'd like to share it with the forum.  In my recollection of the terms and conditions, I don't think there was anything illegal about the program.  It wasn't a lottery.  The T&C spelled out how the money IF there was any, was to be distributed among the voucher holders.  The program was clearly spelled out how the money was to be generated.

Some of the tragic aspects are:

 Huntseat having to insist someone read the fine print.  (Why wouldn't someone spending a ton of money investigate everything themselves.)  

Some people not getting some money they thought they were getting. 

Sundowner getting a bunch of bananas from unhappy people. 

Sundowner dealers without any connection to the voucher program getting tarred. 

Watching unhappy people looking to blame someone, anyone to avoid taking the consequences of their greed.  (I call this greed since they were trying to profit from someone else's misfortune.  The whole program was predicated on people missing the voucher deadline.  Hopefully, someone other than yourself)

Then, there are the positives...  People reading this forum are learning to critically examine statements and offers from all sources...

I used to believe alot of information and statements from TV, magazines, newspapers.  There wasn't anything else besides being there.  The internet has opened my mind to so many more sources and the limitations of each. 

I'm talking not just trailers, but world events, politics, the whole breadth of human knowlege

This forum has contributed to that for me. 

Thanks to each of you.

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huntseat
Reg. Oct 2003
Posted 2006-01-12 10:19 PM (#35407 - in reply to #35287)
Subject: RE: 3800 Views, 50+ posts, Shut down?


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I have a major problem with people that DO NOT read the fine print.  Not just because I am a teacher but because I am intelligent!

I have never bought a car or truck that I didn't know more than my salesperson did about HIS product.  (Then I go purchase it from my buddy that owns the dealership because retail is a joke.)

The worst part about society is the lack of accountability today (I'm not going to talk about parents and the kids behavior either):

Hot coffee is hot...stupid

Drugs have side effects...do you know yours?

There was a lawsuit a few years back from a lady that had taken some medication that made her pee purple colored.  Unknowingly, she attends a pool party and you guessed it...she sued and won MILLIONS because she didn't read her fine print.  How dumb is this?

How many frivolous lawsuits have you heard about lately, be honest.  Hasn't it gotten out of hand?

I don't think Sundowner has a LEGAL obligation to right the wrong done by the voucher company.  I won't voice my views on their MORAL obligations to customers that knowingly paid more for a trailer betting on the come.

In today's world MORAL does not mean LEGAL.  I thank all of my legal buddies for reminding me of this nearly daily.



Edited by huntseat 2006-01-12 10:33 PM
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deranger
Reg. Jan 2004
Posted 2006-01-13 6:27 AM (#35416 - in reply to #35407)
Subject: RE: 3800 Views, 50+ posts, Shut down?


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Many kudos to jeffghs, hosspuller and huntseat for saying waht needed to be said. I'm always envious of your "wordsmith" abilities. Happy trails.
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horsey1
Reg. Dec 2004
Posted 2006-01-13 9:07 AM (#35428 - in reply to #35287)
Subject: RE: 3800 Views, 50+ posts, Shut down?


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Huntseat,
Glad to see you back! And a great set of words & thoughts from both you and Reg.
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hosspuller
Reg. Oct 2003
Posted 2006-01-13 9:57 AM (#35431 - in reply to #35287)
Subject: RE: 3800 Views, 50+ posts, Shut down?


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Here's an interesting comment on this whole voucher thing !



Edited by hosspuller 2006-01-13 9:59 AM
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Mr. Trailer
Reg. Oct 2003
Posted 2006-01-13 10:01 AM (#35432 - in reply to #35287)
Subject: RE: 3800 Views, 50+ posts, Shut down?




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Location: Tuttle, OK

A few years back, this was a forum with absolutely no rules. During that time, it was a complete joke. I lurked here only for the pure comedy of reading all of the childlike drama and pure lies that were being posted. There were a few that were here to share actual trailer information, but they were buried deep in a quagmire of BS.

 

Thankfully, that time has passed. People are asked to register and act like they are adults.

 

To those that do so, thank you for your participation and comments – both good and bad comments.

 

To those that would rather not, thanks for stopping by. Perhaps we’ll see you sometime on a politics and controversy forum…

 

This thread has run its course. PM me if you have a legitimate reason to re-open it.

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