I am posting this, hoping to get comments regarding colic in one of my horses. He had to be euthanaized. He was a gelding who would have been 19 in 2 months. I owned him for 2 years...super horse! As background, all my horses are wormed on a schedule worked out in consultation with my vet. The horses receive very little grain, half steamed crimped oats, half sweet feed, less than a quart total per feeding, which is only twice a week or so. There are out on pasture, with various shelters 24/7, and receive high quality brome/orchard grass. Roany developed colic Monday afternoon. He was shivering (it was raining). He had shelter that day, and I had never seen him shiver before, even on the coldest, wet days. His temp was 100, respiration 35. He passed cow pie consistency manure, and would not eat or drink.The vet gave him banimine, rompin, and pepto bismol. I gave him more pepto 2 hours later, per vet. There were gut sounds. I watch him during the night, and he was O.K. At 5 in the morning he started with the classic colic signs again. Gave Rompin injection per vet orders, and no better. Second vet  out, tubed him with mineral oil, pulse, temp still O.K. Gut sounds not as good as before, gums just O.K. Vet gave bantimine, and said  he would have to be referred to surgery center if this did not work. Even with sedation, my beloved horse would not tolerate rectal exam.  I  would not consider surgery, and he did not improve. I am at a loss as to what I could have done differently to prevent this. Comments appreciated.

Thank You!

Brenda 

Colic is still the a major killer in horses today. There are many types and causes of colic pain, from mild belly aches to fatal damage. Recognizing the signs early and relaying the condition and history of your horse to your vet has a very important role. A horse's pain and mental condition can be checked by the owner, but also check the vital signs. Temperature. Respiratory rate and character. Heart rate, pulse rate and pulse strength. Color and capillary refill time (refill time and color can indicate shock). Mucous membranes and skin elasticity (signs of dehydration). Quality and frequency of intestinal sounds. You never said if the vet did gastric reflux but from what you said about his stools I would say he had a blockage, from sand ,twisted gut, or other and without surgery, you did all you could do. I'm sorry for your loss.

First and most importantly, I am very sorry for your loss. No matter how hard we try to save them, when they pass, it hurts.

As for anything you could have done. I think you did everything you could under the circumstances. Whatever it was that took your horse from you was not an easy fix. That was proven by all your hard work and two vet visits.  Happy trails will come your way again.

I'm so sorry for your loss. Two suggestions: stay away from the crimped oats and sweet feed mix. I used to do that with my horse and she continually coliced. I now have her on SafeChoic(by Nuetrena. It's made for horses who colic) with a scoop of Triple Crown w/ rice bran, 1/4 c. veg oil, and well soaked beet pulp two times a day. I use Fastrack (once a day) in the am. I also turn this all into a mash by adding lukewarm water.

They need to be on a regular feed schedule. If a 1000 lb horse needs .50 lbs a day, for example. thats 5 pounds (right? Check my math). Feed half in the am and half at night. Irregular feedings can be a problem.

The other thing I suspect is sand colic. Do you live in a sandy area and did the vet check for sand? That sounds to me like it could the factor. Do a sand test at least once a month, it really lets you know what's going on.

Again, I am so sorry for your loss. Colic is my worst nightmare. The steamed crimped oats I used to feed my horse, thinking this was the best thing in the world, I'm afraid might have been a trigger for her impactions.

Also, it could just be weather changes. Drastic changes in weather are often blamed for these tragedies.

A few years ago at a boarding stable we were using a horse coliced on a plastic grocery bag.  The horse ate the bag and it blocked up his intestines. 

If you don't mind me asking, why did you not consider the surgery?

I am only guessing at this one, because I'm not the horse owner.

1. the expense is extremely high for some horse owners.

2. the success rate of opening up a horse under surgery.

3. post op. complications, infections and the time you have to invest as the owner.

I'm absolutely sure that both of the vets offered surgery as an alternative. Any competent vet would. Happy trails.

I was going to same the same thing.I know of several this year that decided no surgery.I have also in the past did the same.5k plus is what it runs.I have also decided not too and had the horse get over colic after 2 weeks worth of on again off again colic with never finding a answer.Most of the vet schools are a somewhat quick to jump the gun on surgery IMHO.

"We had a horse that we opt for the surgery after 2 trips to the vet within a 4 hour period.  It was during a really hot day in August.  Finally took him to Los Colinas where they waited approx 5 hours and with no improvement (horse was sweating and shivering with a high heart rate) before doing the surgery as a last resort.  This was about 4 years ago and horse has not coliced since (still keeping our fingers crossed).  After having colic problems with other horses during hot weather, we have started giving them electrolytes to get them drink plenty of water during the summer.  As I remember cost for surgery was about $3,500 and even if it had been $10,000 my wife would still have insisted on it even if we had to take out a second mortgage.  Her horses are like her family. "

What did the veterinarians find while doing your horse's surgery and his reasons for colicking?

While a morbid thought after having your horse euthanized, an autopsy could have been done by your veterinarian to find what had caused your horse's colic and death.

Good care of horses to prevent most colics include accessible water and in winter weather especially, since horses that are out on pasture, frozen water troughs, waterers are common and some horses just won't drink really cold water. Running a pysillium product such as Sandclear or SandEx through your horse whether he is on a sandy paddock or not(dirt can still cause problems) every couple months helps with potential sand colics/blockages. Keeping your horses on a rotational deworming program throughout the year and more than twice a year is important too. Good quality feed is important too. Dusty, moldy hay is obviously a red flag for many problems in a horse.

Tumors, blockages, twists, sand are all potential problems in an elderly horse. While reevaluting your horse's environment, his feed and your overall horse keeping with your veterinarian might be a good idea, the loss of your horse is very unfortuneate and you and your vets did what was best for your horse.

The vet school near me will usually do the post morten at no charge.It takes a while,sometimes a long while sometimes not.Their used for classes.

"What did the veterinarians find while doing your horse's surgery and his reasons for colicking?"

Mifarmbabe:  That was the frustrating part - they never found what caused it.  They figured it was an impaction and maybe cleared while the horse was being lifted and placed on the table for the surgery. 

Our horse was only 12 at the time so not sure what we would have done if he had been around 20.

Texas, thank you for the info. You really think that works to prevent colic? I usually put about a tsp of sea salt in their feed and then once a week I give them more, also soak their hay and make their feed into a mash (pour lukewarm water.)

I've heard Gatorade is good for electrolytes (for horses) but I'm not crazy about the sugar. :)

I'm a little concerned about Farnam as a company after their Equitrol problem. I used to use one of their loose mineral/fly feed through products but you say this is a good product?

Anne

hounddog, I cant find any info on Moormans SureGro minerals. I just keep getting fertilizers. :) Can you get me a link?

Thanks all for your input. Did not mean to hijack the colic thread. Just trying to always be vigilant in preventing it.

I just buy the packets from the feed store and add about 1/4 tsp to my old mares feed every morning. 

You sure make feeding difficult, my horses won't eat their food it it was wet.  I have to make sure there is no water in the feed pans after a rain or heavy dew or they will leave what ever is wet and let it turn to mush.

Thank you for your support and comments. They were greatly appreciated! In replying to some questions - Surgery - While my horses are my pride and joy, I will not spend $5-10K on surgery, especially with an older horse.

 Barnsmanship - I have discussed this with my vet, who owns horses. We worked out a worming schedule a long time ago, and he has no other suggestions. I have heated Nelson Automatic waterers in the pasture and corral, buy top quality hay, regular feeding routine, etc., etc. It is always hard losing an equine companion.

Thanks again!

Brenda

houndog, $3.00 for a worm sample? Wow! I pay $20.00 What are you using this time of  year. I'm in GA also. I just took my horse off the Strongid Cx2 daily w/ Ivermectrin 2x per year for bots, so now I'm on rotation. What do you recommend giving in mid-January? The rotation guide recommends Panacur Power pac or Safeguard power dose. Mega $$, too harsh for my comfort level (5 days in a row of double doses!) and they just came up clean after an intractable strongyle problem that I treated with Quest Plus. This was about 2 months ago.

Any suggestions?

Not all worms will show up in a fecal test.  My mare was having trouble gaining weight and the fecal test were neg.  So my vet drew blood and she was full of tapeworms. 
Yikes. Which wormer did you end up using?

I know that not all do show up that's why the Panacur Pac is recommended once a year, that supposedly gets everthing. I dont like the idea of double dosing my horses for 5 days (or the cost) but one of my mares has a colic problem and try my best to be diligent about worming. I'm just new to the south, everyone has a different opinion down here and I'm not sure which way to go!

By the way, it's worth noting that they show no symptoms other than this colic thing  in one horse which I am just praying we  have gotten under control since discovering she has a resistance to Strongid. There was never any weight loss, dull coat, nothing that would make me think they had a problem or have one now. That's what makes it so exasperating but  I'm determined to get this thing  totally under control. I just really dont want to pay for both another fecal test ($40.00) as well as the Panacur Packs $60.00 each. But the little darlings are worth it of course . It would just be nice to be sure. ;) I mean I may only need to give them a shot of Equimax and be done with it for a while. I could do the PowerPacs when I can better afford it.

ONCE a YEAR I use ivemec with the tape worm remover.Been told by NUMEROUS vets any more is a waste.That tapes are EASILY killed removed.The panacur power pack is for HEAVY strongles investation .I have 30 head or so.I NEVER rotate to Strongid or Panacur.I mainly use Ivermic 1.87%and rotate with Quest.I use Quest twice a year or so. I use NAME brand ivermectin wormers.The OTHERS the powered drugs are bought and they mix it and label and sell it.Its been discussed that the MIX may not ALWAYS be correct.BUY a microscope on the web or at a

pawn shop etc.and do your your own fecals.Its NOT rocket science.But yes I pay $3.00 for fecals and Im trying to save from spending THAT(It adds up with 30!)haven't used the POWER PACK in over a decade but WOULD if it showed VERY HIGH levels of strongyles egg count instead of Quest.But SO far haven't needed to.

I'm not sure what my vet treated her with in office, but he told me to worm for tape worms every 6 months in this area.  Most of the people I have talked to around here don't worm unless there is a problem.    I have been rotating between Zimecterin Gold and EquiMax.   This mare has GI problems from years of being wormy and malnurished and any worm load causes her to stop eating.  She gets wormed every 6 weeks.  Any longer and she goes off her feed.  The rest get wormed quarterly, with the twice a year for tapeworms. 

hounddog, I just used the Quest Plus when I got back a moderate load of strongyles. It really did the job. After that I got back a totally clean sample. No wormes. Vet checked twice. I gave them a shot of Equimax (ivermectin 1.87%) since it was time for the fall worming. It's now mid-January and they say to worm for bots. What would be good for stongyles and bots?  Or what would you recommend? I really like Quest but there is so much controversy around it, especially down here (I'm sure you've heard) that I'm not sure I want to take the risk.)

I hear what you're saying about the Panacur......dont use it unless you get back a really loaded sample. MUST I pay for a sample each time I go to worm or should I just give them a shot of X [fill in the blank]? I havent had great luck with just plain Ivermectrin as that's what I was using (Zimectrin Gold) when I got back a sample that was HIGH for strongyles. My (former) vet really failed to alert me to what that meant and what I should have done at that point, which should have been Panacur pac!

 I can't tell whether I've coming or going down here with the worms. They recommend every 8 weeks! And it's always for something new. I dont know who to listen to. Even the vets have different opinions. What do you think  I should give them in January?

Thanks much for any advice.

Terri, I know what you mean about having a horse with problems from worms. I'm pretty sure that;s what I have which I why I know so much about colic.  The equimax and Zimectrin Gold are good choices for tape (especially Equimax.) You probably could have used a Panacur Power pac after the tapeworm incident. (It's double dose per horse for 5 days in a row at $65.00/pack, thank you very much. Ugh. But it kills all, safely. I think the active ingredient is fenelzine or something like that.Very safe for the horses, unlike the minoxodil that's in Quest. I'm spelling the active ingredients totally wrong but I'm too lazy right now to look it up. lol. You'll know what I mean.)  Anyway, I've heard it's the magic bullet--- and I wish I had learned that a long time ago. But whatever your vet perscribed it sounds like it did the job.

So with your mare you are now rotating between ZG and Equimax. Maybe the next hit should be with Zimectrin for me. But  I feel more comfortable with the Equimx (it has more ivemectrin.) What  I am really doing here is let's face it trying to avoid paying yet another $40.00 for a fecal exam!!!! I shouldnt have to do this EVERY time! Should I?

Hounddog, one more question. What are you raising up there with 30 horses? Do you specialize in any particular breed, discipline, etc? Do you sell, breed, train or just own?

I put it in my sig. Breed and sell.I have always had Walkers and got into them a little deeper.Have two Tobiano Walker studs and 5 good broodmares as well as their offspring whom I sell as weanliongs to two year olds etc.Then I had a Uncle whom was involved in Qtrs from the 50s through late 80s.I got the last of his brood mares(Wimpy Chico x El Greco Tom)mainly out of a stud he had 29 years.Wimpy Chico.A line bred Old Sorrel stud from King Ranch.I've crossed them on Driftwood,Hancock,Hollywood dun it lines.Then I had a friend I met through AQHA(while getting these mares)that is a Nebraska cattle rancher(Sandhills)he gave us a colt on a trip to him with a hint it might be somebody one day(Red Rim Rock x Freckles Fancy)(Drift x Freckles) First foals(other proples mares,LOL)out of him last year.He's a blood bay roan now 15.2 with a "head" and BODY.Almost gelding user friendly.Has thrown 5 roans last year on gray,yellow,bay,sorrel with body,heads and easy going temperments.So I spend a lot of money,sell about 5 to 7 a year(so far)bred about 15 last two years(outside)and hope to maybe? ease out of the walkers(except our own trail horses)May try breeding a lot more outside mares by shipped seman etc.I have a buddy whom collects,freezes and we ultrasound our own etc.I bought one outside breeding last year to a old San Peppy stud for a 19 y.o.Wimpy mare.Did NOT catch(3 trys)I grew up BIG city(Atlanta)(Hippys x Vietnam war era)and the smell of a horse drove me nuts.One day had to have one.Got to fooling with them 25 years ago or so.Last 6 years a LOT more then fooling.I'm outside of Athens Ga.(UGA). I do NOT promote UGA vet clinic.

I had truck failure in Knoxville Tn.Middle of the night.Anyhow the vet school took me and my horse in.My gelding was a 16.3 Twh.I got to weigh him for 3 days(fun and curious)on a digital scale.His weight fluctuated from a boarderline 1299/1300 to a low 1400.Just from water and poop!

I STILL miss fast cars and FAST women! SIGH.Wish we had horse racing in this state.I could enjoy playing with fast Quarters or Pacers and maybe mature fast women LOL