Just want to let everyone who owns a Sundowner know about my current situation. In October of 2002, I purchased a 2001 leftover Sundowner Trail Blazer III 4H living quarters because Sundowner was offering a "voucher" back on the trailer. The deal was, you keep the trailer for three years and you send in some paperwork in a 7 day timeframe and this trust company in New York sends you X amount of dollars depending on the trailer you buy. In our case, we were to receive back $20,000.00 on our trailer since we have had it three years. We sent in all of the needed paperwork to this address in New York, and after a few weeks we received a letter from them complimenting us on our sending in the papers and that they were processing our voucher. On December 28, we received an envelope in the mail saying the Consumer Trust Corporation in New York had filed bankruptcy. We are in total shock. Today we contacted our Sundowner dealer (Sundowner of OKC) and they said they had also found this out and that the Missouri Attorney General has filed a suit against them and "froze" $10 Million of their money so far. They also informed us that we might, if we were lucky, receive around $3,000-$4,000. If anybody had bought a Sundowner using the voucher, please contact your dealer and find out as much as you can! This could cause serious problems for Sundowner if this really catches on and people find out....

If anyone else knows anything, please post and let me as well as others know what is going on! Mr. Truck and Mr. Trailer??? I think alot of us are needing some answers!

Sounds like one of those "too good to be true" situations. I had never heard of this voucher deal thing until now. Sounds absurd.

This is not Sundowner's fault and I really don't think it will cause "serious problems" for Sundowner.

I too looked at this "Voucher" deal.  It sounds like the same one.  As I figured it out, the Dealer paid "X" money to this trust company.  The dealer would then sell an inflated price trailer.  The buyer of the trailer would then get a trailer and this "Voucher" to claim a large refund amount in exactly 3 years.  The buyer though he was getting a $ 20 K trailer for $ 5 K after the voucher was paid.

 The sucker alarm sounded for me as I read the fine print. The actual trustee was "offshore", the  "testimonials" were foreign, (used words like "solicitor" ) and there were loop-holes if more people made claims than there was money available.

I sorry that you got taken.

Sundowner of Oklahoma is owned by Sundowner Corporate (John Shipman) They were involved with this store while this voucher scam was being sold.  I agree they bear some responsibility for letting it happen and knowing less than 2% ever collect. 

I was looking at a trailer several years ago and the dealer had a simialr scheme- buy it now, send in all paperwork in a few years to get your rebate. When I added it up, I saved nothing ( since I was financing the trailer I would be paying the interest cost on the whole purchase price.).It was a pretty silly idea so we passed. While I would agree Sundowner bears some responisblity,don't bet your life on any kind of settlement. I would seek some legal advice.

The program, I recall, was a 90 day program which Sundowner used to promote sales.  I don't know the details, but I have heard that corporate offices are aware of the situation and we should hear more details soon. 

I sit by and watch the people in these post jump at a chance to bash a certain brand the minute there is a problem, especially about Sundowners.

If people would shoulder some of the blame and responsibility and take the initiative to really explore the situations you get yourselves into maybe we wouldn't have these issues.

All trailers are going to have problems. All schemes are going to have an unhappy ending. You need to deeply investigate all areas before jumping in head first.

We finance with a company that has been very helpful and successful in getting customers financed with no schemes or strings attached. You have to admit that if it sounds too good to be true it probably is folks. The lure of money is an evil thing and we all have been sucked in at one time or another.

Has anyone received an e-mail from someone who had their 3 year old mare get a foot ripped off by what they called a design flaw in a gate of a lower end steel trailer? They are taking no responsibility in that maybe they shouldn't have put a horse in that kind of trailer to begin with. Maybe they tried to slam the gate on her.

Who knows, it is always easier to blame the other guy.

We are sorry for all misfortunes but we need to be accountable and realize that coffee is hot!

I think it is sad when any company, not just Sundowner relies on schemes like this to boost their sales. I know maybe that is the way big business works but not everyone reads the fine print like they should, and does get taken advantage of.

Very important reminder to read the fine print, don't believe everything the salesman says, do you homework, ask questions, if in doubt don't do it regardless of how good it seems.

We all live and learn, unfortunatly at a cost. Sometimes a very high cost. DK

I wish the world were filled with happy peaceful people who gave us everything when we need it. Every thing would be decided for us by wonderful men that had our best interests at heart.

Then we wouldn't have to think or be responsible for our decisions.

And everything would be perfect . . .

MI farmbabe ... You've put the whole discussion in a basket with the wish that the LIONS win a game.  If that were to happen, then some other team has LOST. 

My point is for the world to balance, everybody has to work at doing their best for their own interest.  (Including reading the fine print)   We all have competing interests.  The only thing that keeps us from killing each other is the rules or law we agree to live by. 

In the case of the voucher offer, I didn't see anything that was against the law, just not very favorable to me.

Deleted double post...

 I'm curious to hear there response!

No bash here...but if the shoe fits!... I'm just waiting for the facts! I'm sure all of us have read the fine print on our credit cards, auto insurance, and, warrentys. You really need to get a lawyer to read it to make sure!

Hard to believe that Sundowner of OK was involved with such a silly and obvious scheme, it's obvious what was happening, they were jacking up prices and profit margin even more than normal for Sundowner while leading the customer to believe they would end up better off so the mark up was no big deal.  While I agree something would have screamed illegal, scheme and fraud I can see why people want to believe in this things and fall victim to it.

 But.. to those who say Sundowner has no liability in this, Ahh come on half of the things Sundowner does is a scheme, why do you think those 30k trailers cost you 60k, advertising and schemes.  Like this year at the Riechert Celebration they paid a large sum of money to be the only barnd there, that's driving prices up.  This is still the most outrageous thing I've heard of though, I can't believe dealers were even stupid and greedy enough to push a scam like this, they are as fault as much as anyone, right up the chain.

I'll say this whole sorry epic was driven on both the trailer seller AND the buyer by GREED. 

The infamous Nigerian scam is still going strong because the scammers still find someone greedy enough to shut-down their common sense.  The buyers of these trailers had to know, in the back recess of their brain, this was a scam.  At best, a pyramid scheme, the first person gets paid from the later suckers. Eventually the whole thing collapses on the last poor suckers.

This whole thing is out of line unless Synco had a whole lot of hard facts or anyone for that matter who has pointed a finger right at Sundowner and placed blame.

This happened around three years ago for a limited time as Dave said. Sundowner was apparently approached by this finance company to promote the deal.

It would be no different than if your local bank offered you a great deal and then went bankrupt.

We all should explore the “to good to be true deals”. Yes, Even Manufacturers.

1. Banks that go bankrupt are insured buy FDIC...(maybe). And they are regulated up the yang for just this reason.

2. I suppose when the hanchos at Enron told there employes to BUY BUY!!!!! It is the deal of the lifetime....I suppose it was the employees fault they wanted to make money! There was greed all over the place! But one was a stinking stealing liar! Oh but thats OK! Stupid people! To good to be true!

I have no issues with the Mfg in question. They just don't build my type of trailer. But I have no room for any type of misleading shell game type DEALS! Yea buyer beware!...I agree but if you get stung by one it is kinda nice for the rest of us to hear about it. Buy looking at the view count 1760...!!! there are alot of people watching this exchange! I'm gonna wait for an explanation. Not critisize someone for accepting an apparent good deal in there eyes! But if they were hoodwinked I'd like to know!

CRK:
 This voucher concept was discussed at length by ALL the Sundowner mangers of the "Super Stores" which included: OKC, Tulsa, Ohio abd Florida, along with the vocher promoters, over 3 yrs ago . Everyone knew the "Deal" and the odd's, customer risks, rewards, etc. The rest of the local competing dealers tried to tell everyone the risks, but now you know the rest of the story(some didn't listen). I blame Sundowner dealership for launching this and using the "shell game" to take trusting customers for some extra money. Even though this was through a "dealership" not the Factory, they(Sundowner Corp.) knew of all the details and could have stopped this dealership from using this scam. CRK, I doubt your trailer dealership in Wyoming would be around very long if you did this, so backoff let the public speak. This is not bashing,this is fact!!

" Hard to believe that Sundowner of OK was involved with such a silly and obvious scheme, it's obvious what was happening . . ."

Yes, it is obvious and should have been obvious to the customer as well. It doesn't take much to see that the only reason to participate in such a deal is the hope of getting something for nothing.  Oh well, the state lotterys do very brisk business based on similar hopes.

Of course, nothing will be resolved on this board by all the commentary; nor should it be. It will provide fodder for those that feel the public should be protected from themselves (their own gullibility and/or stupidity) for weeks or months to come.

We have seen no "FACT" Duckman. Unless you are an ex-executive with Sundowner or the financial institution and have an insight to the story about something that happened apparently over three years ago you are blowin’ smoke too.

Sundowner has no control over a company going bankrupt.

If you ask me this post should be removed because it is bashing and borderline slander.

I'm surprised Dave hasn't stepped in.

I am interested in knowing more about this.  There was a voucher plan whereunder the purchaser was supposed to get money back - like a rebate? - after three years. 
When the voucher/rebated is not honored, how is Sundowner not a part of the problem?  How are the dealers not a part of this?  If someone is buying an expensive horsetrailer of a well-know brand, from a dealer for that brand, why would he expect that there would be a default on that rebate?  Explain to me please, how this would not negatively impact both the manufacturer (Sundowner) and the dealer.  Without some further explanation, it does impact my opinion of both. 

I'm interested in understanding how this plan was supposed to work if anyone cares to explain - especially the people who think that Sundowner bears no responsibility, the dealer bears no responsiblity or that the customer was wrong in participating in the deal.

Thanks for any answers.

I am wondering why Sundowner or one of their representatives has not commented on this.

Regardless of what trailer company it was, i still think they are partly responsible. I own a Featherlite and think very highly of the company but if it had been them or any other company that had done this,  it would definetley change my opion of them. DK

Well it appears there are all kinds of dealers making posts! I figured the posts were Sundowner owners,lovers or just had major issues with them! Dummy Me! Looks about the same as the Nigerian internet sceme! It seems the only dealer that really lets us know his company affiliation is Mr Trailer. Thanks I appriciate that! The next time a poster ask us dumb consumer/users about a certain brand trailer I will kinda wonder about the responses! Is it a dealer telling them how great it is or one pointing them at there trailer? WTF?

The site is mainly for the benefit of the buyer, not the seller.  That's why people advertise here.  I have dealers making over half their gross from this site . . . that's from selling trailers.  They are not selling trailers to other dealers.

Your math assumptions leave out many important factors.  Those 450 people are IP addresses from the last 30 minutes.  After that, if there is no more action from that IP it is dropped from the count. 

Out of over 300 online dealers, less than half go into their database more than once a month for updates.  Of the remaining 150, about 30 or so are updating their inventories on a weekly basis.  Let's assume all 30 are updating daily . . . which they are not.    And let's assume they are averaging 30 minutes of time a day.  (dealer average entry time is 11 minutes per session).

Even if all 30 were on every day . . . and the others accounted for an additional 60 visits - they would all be in and out of the system before being dropped by the counter.  Remember, that's 450 from just the last 30 minutes!  Right now we're recording over 17,000 individual visits a day and over 4,000 unique visitors daily on average.

I just wanted to clarify your assumptions.

I guess this is a good time for all of us realize we should call the main offices of the trailers when we see promotions like this going on.  I remember when there were all those superstores and I even looked at some trailers when I was considering a new trailer (I ended up buying a used one from a local horseperson).

Thanks to this website, I am learning slowly over time that not everything is what it seems.

The scams are still rampant over the internet for sure.  When I cashed a bank check I had gotten from a relative, the teller asked me if I got it off the internet.  Someone had gotten one from Canada just the last week and was getting ready to send money back.  She saved him a lot of money.

Jbsny

(I'm sorry about the font size, but everytime I change it, it automatically changes back.)

I appreciate the information from Sundowner.  Did the representative say whether the company had any knowledge that this promotion was being offered by these dealerships at the time the vouchers were being issued? Did he say what, if anything, the Sundowner company was going to do to assist the people who participated in the voucher program in the purchase of a Sundowner trailer?  Will Sundowner be involved in any legal action against the dealership, the voucher company, or take a legal position on behalf of the purchasers in the pending bankruptcy?  Thanks for the information

Sounds like Dave finally came up with some facts. Humm' Facts, now there is a concept.

Sounds similar to what I head when I checked with Sundowner.

See what happens when you ask for "Facts" instead of jump in with out knowing squat.

As I said. I feel for those who were taken or when anyone comes out on the short end but for land sakes get the facts before you take a chance to jump on the wagon and run something down when you aren't sure of the facts.

Remember, Coffee is hot!

"THE TRUTH" are you a dealer?

Personaly I smell a bunch of Rats! I don't know what to believe... I just know I hate rats. We have people posting how people jumped the gun on who is at fault....people trying to get the facts,and people waiting to hear them. One thing that seems odd is Sundowner allowing someone to use there name for a "superstore". Starbucks sues stores if their name even sounds like theirs. Well I think consumers have a right to get answers! If you are a dealer or have an alternate motive go fish I say unless you got the real FACTS and can really explain this!.... Oh yeh....2585 veiws! It pays to advertise!

Kay I appreciate knowing!

My warning is this, don't think the person selling you a truck knows anything about trucks. Yesterday they may have been selling washing machines. "By Mr. Truck"

My whole point, I am a salesman and I am going to try and sell you the brands of equipment that I offer. I have a great freind who is a trailer dealer, quess what? He is going to tell you how great his brands are. That's how he and I make a living. So if you want to hear what is great about a Sundowner trailer ask someone who sells them. They may also tell you some bad things about the "Other Brands" does that make it true? NO refer back to line one. I don't dislike trailer dealers, I ride horses with one of them often.

Thanks for posting that... interesting concept. 

I'd also like to say that all this dealer bashing is unnecessary.  I have come to this site and gotten plenty good information about brakes, axles, tires, and fabrication.  I have saved a lot of money by learning there are options to what I think should be done..  There are a few posts that are not appropriate, but then, in a forum this large, that is bound to happen.  I take the good, leave the bad.

Thanks to all who post.

Jbsny

Kesta ... My compliments on taking the time & effort to read the small print of this "voucher" thing.  (It's small because they really don't want you to read it)  But they print the "get $$" very large to get your attention.

I'm posting to confirm your memory for the details.  The proportional payback was the loop-hole that kept me out of this disaster.

While Sundowner and or the dealers may not be resonsible for this fiasco, it does underline the cardinal rule of customer relations- first do no harm. The fellas responsible for this scheme are long gone. The only target of consumer wrath is the dealer. Sundowner is probably not legally liable for the losses- it was a outside party and it was a voluntary program. ( I recall a simple back-end rebate from another dealer and it wasn't a sundowner trailer I was looking at) I don't think the customers were greedy wanting to take advantage of what appeared to be a good deal. Too bad it didn't work out.

Well I am not surprised in the least that was sundowner’s response to Dave….. Of course it wasn’t them, of course that was their answer… of course they love their customers… who else would they have to sucker then? Did we expect for them to come clean and say they had a hand in the scheme? NO! Of course they would blame the guy that is no longer there so they can say; it was the guy that’s no longer here…. SO every knows that sundowner corp. owns the superstores. What they didnt tell you is that they DID NOT just acquire the superstores… they have had a hand in owning them for sometime….  Sure they want to Blame Bryant Jones because he is no longer there. What Sundowner hasn’t told you is that they  were partnered up in owning them with Bryant Jones- officially known as- BJE- Bryant Jones Enterprises- long before and during the scheme.

Dear TRUTH:  I don't think anyone here is afraid of the truth.  But if that is all you're doing then we would expect to hear more on where this truth is coming from.  Would you identify yourself?

Your comments are unedited except for specific names and alleged actions ascertained from your personal observations.  See section of rules below:

You may agree and disagree - and complain all day about injustices. We love opinions. But we are NOT a forum for publicly bringing down groups or individuals, or their property based upon your personal judgments or experiences. Use private messaging if you have an ax to grind with someone.

Please note that Horse Trailer World is not "protecting" anyone . . . we do attempt to protect EVERYONE.  Without a bit in it's mouth, this board would quickly run wild - and turn into a rumor center.  Anonymous posts like yours are frequently how they start.  Everyone has an agenda.  The fact that Sundowner posted their direct phone number to address those most affected seems reasonable. 

But the fact that you post your private allegations publicly and anonymously doesn't seem right.