Ford vs. Chevy from a Newbie
waysidefarm
Reg. Dec 2005
Posted 2005-12-27 10:01 PM (#34444)
Subject: Ford vs. Chevy from a Newbie


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Location: Pocono Mts PA

Hello! I'm so glad I found this forum and I thank any in advance for your input!

We are shopping for our first truck and have narrowed it down to a Ford F250 or Chevy 2500. We need crewcab, and 'short bed' since it will also be my "Mom around Town  truck". I will primarily haul 2 small horses or ponies plus a carriage, and it will be a gooseneck trailer (haven't bought that yet...more questions to come regarding that!)

I believe the V-8 will suffice for us, and so have moved away from a V-10. I've ruled out diesels, too. I hate to sound like a wimp, but I just can't handle the noise and I just don't think I need that much power.

Now, I know there are die hard fans of either Ford or Chevy, but I would appreciate any feedback any would offer for either. Or anything I should be researching further.

I'm leaning towards the Chevy, since it just drove a bit 'smaller'--I'm in a Tahoe now and love it, and really didn't notice much difference. But am I trading that convenience with less power from a Ford and will this affect my towing?

Thanks again!

melissa!

 

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MIfarmbabe
Reg. Oct 2003
Posted 2005-12-28 8:59 AM (#34453 - in reply to #34444)
Subject: RE: Ford vs. Chevy from a Newbie


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Hey not a wimp at all. Some people just don't like the diesel sound or their smell.

How far do you plan to travel with your trailer and horses? If you are going to be doing alot of hauling and long distance then you should double check into a diesel truck. This is what they are built for and while a V8 gasser can do the job, gas mileage will just make you cry. If you have mainly short distance hauls, then either the F250 or GM2500 will work.

Coming from a girl's standpoint here, I own a Duramax diesel and love it. The noise, the smell, gives me a testosterone rush. LOL!! I love my crew cab and have the LT package and with leather heated seats, Bose stereo system, Onstar, drives like a cadillac, it's a woman's dream! I also do alot of around town driving and have two kids and I'm not complaining.

Good luck with your truck hunt!! Come to Michigan to find one, thousands to pick from!

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cattledrive
Reg. Oct 2005
Posted 2005-12-28 9:32 AM (#34454 - in reply to #34444)
Subject: RE: Ford vs. Chevy from a Newbie


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I agree with you ruling out the V-10's, how ever if this truck is going to be used as a "grocery getter" I would not be so quick to rule out the diesel's. Your fuel milage will be better and more consistent than a gas engine, it will last longer and retain more value. While the noise is not as bad as it use to be there is that draw back, but you get use to it. As to Ford or Chevy I have drive both and both are good choices. I would test drive both, find a dealer that will let you drive the truck for half a day (with no strings) drive it around the area just like you will be. Make sure that the test truck is equipted similarly to what you will be buying. If they let you, I would hook up your trailer and see how it pulls (if you hook up to a diesel, the gasser's won't even compare. Please note that I am trying to stay out of the "Ford Guy or Chevy Guy" mode. Drive both, try Dodge too and go for which one you are most comforable with. The only item I have a passion for is diesel, I have driven everything from a Mack Truck to a diesel Volkswagen, the diesel's are just a more effeicient engine than the gasser's.
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Reg
Reg. Oct 2003
Posted 2005-12-28 1:59 PM (#34459 - in reply to #34444)
Subject: RE: Ford vs. Chevy from a Newbie


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I suggest you settle on the trailer first.
Then figure if you need a long bed and/or a dual rear wheel set-up.
Use trailer nose width and pin weight to figure that, i.e size the truck to the trailer.
Since you already have a Tahoe - and you LIKE it - you might find it simpler/easier to transition to another GM - consistent layout of knobs, switches, controls, etc.

WRT diesels: I used to ski with a woman who said (the smell of) my diesel suburban's exhaust made her feel quite sick. It turned out that HER childhood memories were of her father's boat idling at the dock while he cut up chum in the very early morning. On the other hand MY childhood memories of the diesel smell were from the diesel generators that came with the circus when it came to town. We agreed that childhood memories were at least a part of our differences on diesels.
Other differences ? Well, she certainly SKIED better than I did.

(-:

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iCE CRM
Reg. Jan 2005
Posted 2005-12-28 5:35 PM (#34467 - in reply to #34459)
Subject: RE: Ford vs. Chevy from a Newbie


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My hat is off to you. Trying to find a truck and a trailer at the same time with limited experience. I'm a FORD man been Ford deisels since 84. I agree with the other person about deisels. Since chevy came out with the duramax you can't go wrong with Ford, Chevy or Dodge.Good luck on your search. I wouldn't want some of my buddies to hear me say that and they probably wouldn't beleive I said that.
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krys
Reg. Oct 2003
Posted 2005-12-29 12:12 AM (#34480 - in reply to #34467)
Subject: RE: Ford vs. Chevy from a Newbie


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One thing to look at is their tow capacities. Last time I looked, there was a difference between Ford and Chevy (and Dodge was the same as Chevy). Personally, I would go with the one that has the most tow capacity as long as you like the way it handles. You never know when you may want to "upgrade". This will also give you more wriggle room.
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hosspuller
Reg. Oct 2003
Posted 2005-12-29 7:16 AM (#34487 - in reply to #34444)
Subject: RE: Ford vs. Chevy from a Newbie


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Originally written by waysidefarm on 2005-12-27 9:01 PM

We need crewcab, and 'short bed' since it will also be my "Mom around Town  truck". I will primarily haul 2 small horses or ponies plus a carriage, and it will be a gooseneck trailer (haven't bought that yet...more questions to come regarding that!)

Hello Melissa .. Welcome to our group.  I'll lean with Reg on advice.

Since you are looking for a GN WITH space for a CARRIAGE!  You are not looking at the typical 2H GN trailer.  Decide on the trailer First.  Trailer weights and nose shape will set the truck's specs.  Don't put any money into the deal until you understand what the trailer and the truck requires.  The truck bed height will require a certain neck over height on the trailer.  You want the trailer to travel level when hitched to the truck.   You'll have noticed horse trailers on the road with their nose high.  This is putting the rear axles/tires of the trailer at risk of failure.  As for diesel... My decision was made on value/cost.  The diesel purchase costs will buy a lot of gasoline, while the maintenance & fuel is more expensive.  One has to travel a lot of miles quickly to make it pay.

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hav2ride
Reg. Oct 2003
Posted 2005-12-29 8:59 AM (#34491 - in reply to #34487)
Subject: RE: Ford vs. Chevy from a Newbie


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"Since you are looking for a GN WITH space for a CARRIAGE!  You are not looking at the typical 2H GN trailer.  Decide on the trailer First.  Trailer weights and nose shape will set the truck's specs. "

Excellent point, Hoss.

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efaubert1
Reg. Feb 2004
Posted 2005-12-29 9:50 AM (#34495 - in reply to #34444)
Subject: RE: Ford vs. Chevy from a Newbie



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I had an 03 F250 with the 5.4 and it sucked mpg wise. Diesel much more efficient. The max towing capacity for a 2006 F250 with the 5.4 and a 3.73 in 4x4 is 9100 pounds, witht eh 4.10 rearend it is 11,100. A 2005 model is 9000 and 11000 respectivly. Good luck. Also, the bed height to the top of a stock F250 is 57" inches according to Ford.
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Champhorse
Reg. Nov 2004
Posted 2005-12-29 11:40 AM (#34498 - in reply to #34444)
Subject: RE: Ford vs. Chevy from a Newbie


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Get specs on both vehicles and see which one meets your needs better. I decided on a Chevy because it had better towing capacity with roughly the same size engine as the Ford, was more comfortable for me to sit in, better price on my trade in and better financing deals, and my Chevy gets great gas mileage. I have a 1/2 ton Silverado (1500 series) and I get about 22 miles / gal without a trailer. Haven't hauled for a long enough distance to figure out mileage with a trailer.
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MIfarmbabe
Reg. Oct 2003
Posted 2005-12-29 8:32 PM (#34523 - in reply to #34444)
Subject: RE: Ford vs. Chevy from a Newbie


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"The diesel purchase costs will buy a lot of gasoline, while the maintenance & fuel is more expensive.  One has to travel a lot of miles quickly to make it pay."

This is such wish-wash. I've heard this so many times and while it may be true,  I would rather spend the extra money on a diesel and  get a more efficient machine and have an engine and tranny that will keep going. How does one make a $30-40K living quarter trailer pay for itself? Do you have to use it so many times through out the year to make it worth the extra you paid for it vs. just pulling a plain ole' stock trailer?

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sundance's girl
Reg. Apr 2005
Posted 2005-12-29 10:08 PM (#34531 - in reply to #34523)
Subject: RE: Ford vs. Chevy from a Newbie


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[

How does one make a $30-40K living quarter trailer pay for itself? Do you have to use it so many times through out the year to make it worth the extra you paid for it vs. just pulling a plain ole' stock trailer?

Yes! I just bought a 2005 GMC 2500 and it's a gasser.  Yes the gas mileage isn't as good as my 1500 but I could not justify the diesel, short of living in my truck year round.  Diesel is higher and my frined who has a F350 diesel still only gets about 10 mpg pulling her trailer. Even as an option one buyer and peak discounts at the dealer I got just what I could afford and use.  Sure someday I'd like to have a nice dually diesel that doesn't do anything put pull a 4 star loaded out trailer! But until I marry rich or make my million I'll settle for my "gasser" with GN homemade LQ stock trailer.  Driving with my head up and enough money to at least feed the horses is worth it! 

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hosspuller
Reg. Oct 2003
Posted 2005-12-29 10:41 PM (#34537 - in reply to #34523)
Subject: RE: Ford vs. Chevy from a Newbie


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Originally written by MIfarmbabe on 2005-12-29 7:32 PM

"The diesel purchase costs will buy a lot of gasoline, while the maintenance & fuel is more expensive.  One has to travel a lot of miles quickly to make it pay."

This is such wish-wash. I've heard this so many times and while it may be true,  I would rather spend the extra money on a diesel and  get a more efficient machine and have an engine and tranny that will keep going.

MIFB... I'll say you bought what you wanted regardless of the economics.

It is not as you said, "wish-wash"   

The facts are: The transmission for the GM 3/4 & 1 ton diesel p/u's is the allison 1000  The same unit is used with the 8.1l gas engine. Here's the point: the diesel truck will not last any longer in the same service.  18 wheelers are not the same trucks so their longevity can't be applied to a 1 ton truck

Diesel fuel has about 15% more energy per gallon than gasoline.  If diesel cost more than 15% over gasoline, the diesel user is in the financial hole.  Regardless of the higher diesel mileage.  The last few months, diesel in my area has been more than 15% higher cost.



Edited by hosspuller 2005-12-29 10:46 PM
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bobtaildog
Reg. Mar 2004
Posted 2005-12-29 11:05 PM (#34540 - in reply to #34537)
Subject: RE: Ford vs. Chevy from a Newbie


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I do a fair amount of field trialing and see upwards of 100 truck and trailer combinations a year. I can count the number of gas trucks on one hand if that gives you any indication. I personally prefer Fords but don't like the 6.L diesels....the 7.3L Powerstrokes they used up till around 2002 are solid performers.

kp

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hosspuller
Reg. Oct 2003
Posted 2005-12-29 11:50 PM (#34541 - in reply to #34540)
Subject: RE: Ford vs. Chevy from a Newbie


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Originally written by bobtaildog on 2005-12-29 10:05 PM

I do a fair amount of field trialing and see upwards of 100 truck and trailer combinations a year. I can count the number of gas trucks on one hand if that gives you any indication. I personally prefer Fords but don't like the 6.L diesels....the 7.3L Powerstrokes they used up till around 2002 are solid performers.

kp

Hey KP ...I understand that in your area, diesels are very popular.  Besides their popularity, what is the indication? The auto companies have an effective advertising program? The dealers sell the fire out of the diesel option? 

 

I rarely buy anything, just because of their market share.

I'd like to know why people buy their diesel truck. 

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hav2ride
Reg. Oct 2003
Posted 2005-12-30 7:52 AM (#34547 - in reply to #34541)
Subject: RE: Ford vs. Chevy from a Newbie


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I started buying diesels because:

the fuel mileage is much better, they tow better, they are more reliable, and they last longer. 

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krys
Reg. Oct 2003
Posted 2005-12-30 1:02 PM (#34560 - in reply to #34547)
Subject: RE: Ford vs. Chevy from a Newbie


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When I bought my diesel,  diesel was $1.15 a gallon...about $.50 cents cheaper than gas.
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MIfarmbabe
Reg. Oct 2003
Posted 2005-12-30 1:16 PM (#34563 - in reply to #34444)
Subject: RE: Ford vs. Chevy from a Newbie


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When we bought our diesel, it was $1.74/gal and gas was going up to $2, but that was not the reason I bought a diesel and obviously now, with it being .25cents more in my area. I would still buy a diesel, even though fuel costs more than gas. From an economic standpoint, yes we can afford a diesel, but for economics sake, it was the better thing to do for our lifestyle.

Hav2ride stated his reasons for buying them, and I have to agree:

"I started buying diesels because:

the fuel mileage is much better, they tow better, they are more reliable, and they last longer. "

We currently own both, a Dmax and a Silverado 3/4 ton gasser. The gasser gets awful gas mileage pulling trailers, but it isn't just that, it's the transmission and overall power. The Allison transmission in the Dmax is so nice for pulling trailers, that is what I like best when I am towing my trailer. Without that transmission in our gasser, you can tell the big  difference. When you are pulling all that weight behind you, it sure is nice to be behind the wheel of a truck that can handle it.

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robdnorm
Reg. Jan 2005
Posted 2005-12-30 3:41 PM (#34569 - in reply to #34444)
Subject: RE: Ford vs. Chevy from a Newbie


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I owned a 2000 F-250 with the V-10 option and taking it to trade was a big issue.  It was hard to find a dealer to offer you a fair trade value because it did not have the diesel.  So, one reason you see more people buying the diesel engine in this part is simply resale or trade value.  The money you invest on the front end will certainly help you when it comes time to trade.
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RoperChick
Reg. Dec 2005
Posted 2005-12-30 9:08 PM (#34588 - in reply to #34541)
Subject: RE: Ford vs. Chevy from a Newbie



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I think what brand of truck you buy is really about personal preferences and the needs of the the person(s) driving and hauling with it.  I've always been a Ford person but recently drove a Duramax Dually (hauling our trailer). There were things about the Chevy I liked better than the Fords and things I liked better about the Fords than the Chevy.  I wish it were possible to combine the best parts of the big three trucks into one truck, that truck might be pretty close to perfect.

Originally written by hosspuller on 2005-12-29 9:50 PM
Hey KP ...I understand that in your area, diesels are very popular.  Besides their popularity, what is the indication? The auto companies have an effective advertising program? The dealers sell the fire out of the diesel option? 

I rarely buy anything, just because of their market share.

I'd like to know why people buy their diesel truck. 

Our Diesel truck purchase had nothing to do with market share.  We bought the diesels for their power, fuel mileage, longevity and resale.  In fact, we liked the first one so much, we bought the second one.

We had a Ford F250 with the 460 gas engine before our diesels.  It had a lot of power, but after pulling with the diesels, we'd never go back to a gas engine. 

Then there's the fuel mileage difference between gas & diesel.  Before the spike in fuel prices a couple of years ago, we could run both of our diesel trucks, each month, for barely more than what it cost in fuel for the 460 for a month.  The 460 got 10mpg around town and 6mpg hauling a two horse BP trailer.  Our SRW Diesel truck gets 17 in town and 12 mpg hauling our trailer.  The DRW Diesel truck is 12 mpg and 10 mpg respectively.

Even with regular gas prices in our area being .60 cents cheaper than diesel, our 1 ton SRW truck is cheaper to drive than my sister-in-law's chevy 2500 6.0 gas engine.  

Diesels can run between 200,000 and 400,00 miles before a rebuild, most gas engines don't last anywhere near that long.

While the intial cost to purchase a diesel is substantial, you also get a better warranty 5yr/100k on the engine and many of the parts attached to it.  And... depending on how old the truck is, when re-selling you can usually get all or most of the additional diesel cost back. 

 

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TrishLLC
Reg. Feb 2005
Posted 2005-12-31 3:35 PM (#34637 - in reply to #34444)
Subject: RE: Ford vs. Chevy from a Newbie


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Location: Los Angeles, CA

By now you've probably received more advice than you ever thought possible but I thought I would throw my 2 cents in because I recently went through the same thing. 

We were going to buy a 3 or 4 horse gooseneck (which is actually probably smaller than your two horse with room for a carraige would be!) and wanted a shiney new truck that would pull it well and also could be used for everyday driving.  Like you we wanted a crew cab and a short bed as the truck would be driven in Los Angeles, and that the 3/4 ton would do the job.  I'm an obsessive researcher and like to have all the info I can possibly get my hands on before making such a big decision.  I researched on the internet, asked on the forums, asked everyone I knew who hauled horses, and test drove the Ford, Chevy and Dodge each three times!  I also used Mr. Truck's paid advice service which was quite helpful since at the time I knew little about trucks.  Here's what I found and what we ended up with and why ( and BTW we're very, very happy with our choice).

1) If you are going with a shortbed, make sure the trailer you get has a tapered nose, or get one of those hitch extender thingies, or the nose of your trailer might take out your truck's back window on a sharp turn.

2) Pretty much everyone will recommend the truck they have.  i.e Dodge owners love Dodges, Chevy people love Chevys etc. 

3) The vast majority of new car/truck dealers don't know anything about their product, so don't believe anything they tell you, especially when it comes to towing.

4) Sorry, but diesel is the way to go.  Really.  You really, really will be happier with it in the long run.  a) There is no comparison in the power when towing a trailer, or even just driving around, and towing a trailer that big you are going to want the power to do the job, especially where you live with hills to climb  b) you will get waaay better gas mileage with a diesel, whether towing or not, but especially when towing, c) they are more reliable and d) there is no comparison when it comes time to trade in your truck - if you put any mileage on it at all, a gas truck's value will drop like a stone, whereas the diesel will hold it's value fairly well (just go on the used car sites like cars.com and autotrader.com to check it out for yourself)

5) Make sure you compare apples to apples when test driving. For example a regular cab long bed will not drive exactly the same as a crew cab short bed even if they are about the same length.  And a 4WD does not drive the same as a 2WD.  Even the tires can make a difference.  Even the interior can make a difference as it will affect your overall impression.  So if for example you are going to go with the higher end models, don't test drive the base model Chevy and compare it to the Ford Lariat.  If the dealer doesn't have the configuration you want (as far as cab size, drive, engine and bedlength) find one who does to make your test driving accurate.  Don't be shy about test driving several times, you are spending a lot of money.  Also if the dealer doesn't have the truck with the options you want, don't be afraid to order one - you will be living with it for a long time.

6a) Chevy:  My husband had a 2000 Yukon Denali (cousin to your Tahoe) and I found the Chevy 2500 truck felt a lot like the Yukon and it felt the most truck-like.  I hated my husbands Denali, so I hated the Chevy :-). The Chevy's back seat is midway in size between the Dodge and Ford.  (Stick the kids back there and see if it is big enough - now and for when they grow!). If I recall correctly the shortbed length is a little shorter than the Ford's but longer than Dodge.  So the truck's overall length will be longer than Dodge but shorter than Ford. Their higher end model's interior is not as nice as either Dodge or Ford.  My husband liked it at first because it drove like a truck and felt familiar to his Yukon Denali.  I hated it because it drove like a truck, the ride was rough, the brakes were vague and it drove like his Yukon Denali :-)

3b) Dodge 2500:  This is the quietest diesel.  We liked the way it handled, and the brakes and steering (the brakes were quite tight, which we liked but are a matter of personal preference).  It was far less truck-like in the way it felt than the Chevy.  It has the smallest back seat of the crew cabs and the shortest shortbed, so it has the shortest overall length.  (They do make a Mega Cab, with the biggest back seat of all, but I doubt you want that).  We thought it would be the easiest to park around town because of the shorter length, but we were concerned that the back seat was too small and that with the shortest shortbed we would need both a tapered nose on our trailer and a hitch extender thingy to avoid taking out the back window. Dodge has a reputation for a long lasting engine but shoddy "little things" like knobs and handles etc.  We heard from several people that the engine might last forever but the radio knobs, etc will be falling off in no time.  I have no idea if this is actually true or not.  Another thing that also concerned us was that they do not publish any towing capacity figures for gooseneck towing.  The 2500 diesel was rated to tow a little less than 13,000 lbs with a conventional hitch, and although trucks are usually rated to tow about 25% more with a gooseneck hitch, Dodge didn't actually say that anywhere.  Since ideally you want to be a couple thousand pounds below the maximum towing capacity, 13,000 lbs was cutting it close when you add up the weight of the trailer, horses, gear, hay, etc. (and in your case the carriage!).  The higher end interior, while nicer than the Chevy, was not as nice as the Ford's.

4) Ford F-250.  This is the one we ended up getting, (and I'll tell you what options below and why).  The back seat is the biggest of the three, and the shortbed is the longest, making it overall the longest shortbed crew cab of the three, which was a minus for us. It also has a louder diesel engine than the Dodge, though about the same as the Chevy, which really bothered my husband at first but now he doesn't notice it (and it's not that noticable once you are inside with the windows rolled up!).  The steering was a bit vague on the one we tested, though the options we added took care of that.  The brakes were midway between Chevy's vague ones and Dodge's tight ones.  The Lariat interior was the nicest of the three.  The main reasons we chose it were 1) highest towing capacity (15,500 lbs), 2) longest shortbed, so our rear window would be safer, c) the (optional) Tow Command integrated trailer brake controller and the tow/haul mode d) the relatively smooth ride and confident brakes.  So basically we found that of the three it was the best for towing, which after all was the reason we were buying a new truck and not an SUV, and was more pleasant to drive around in than the Chevy due to the smoother ride, more confident brakes and nicer interior with more options.  The options that we added that improved the steering and ride were 18" wheels and the camper package (basically beefed up suspension and stablizers bars, which help when towing but also generally improved the ride).  For towing we also got the Tow Command system (integrated trailer brake controller and towing mirrors) and limited slip diferential.  We of course got the diesel engine and automatic transmission.  And for comfort we got the Lariat package (leather seats, power everything) heated seats, power adjustable gas pedals, power sliding rear window (which is a trade off with a rear window defogger but a solid rear window), power moonroof, and for looks the chrome package (and it is one smokin looking truck if I do say so myself!).  My husband and I are both really happy with the truck and the decision we made.  He loves the power and I like the ride and comfort.  We recently bought a 4H Hart GN aluminum trailer and you can't even tell you are towing anything unless you look in your rearview mirror!  It even towed up big long hills like a dream.  And the combination of the integrated Tow Command system and tow/haul mode makes for no-hassle towing, sort of plug and play for towing! 

You will probably be happy with whichever truck you get as long as it's a diesel.  After all, you'll get used to the noise, you won't get used to struggling up hills and lousy gas mileage.  And if you don't get used to the noise you won't take a bath when you trade it in, whereas if you get a gas engine and trade it in because you hate towing with it, you will lose a lot of $$$.

Best of luck!

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muleskinner
Reg. Dec 2005
Posted 2005-12-31 4:10 PM (#34639 - in reply to #34637)
Subject: RE: Ford vs. Chevy from a Newbie


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Originally written by TrishLLC on 2005-12-31 3:35 PM

By now you've probably received more advice than you ever thought possible but I thought I would throw my 2 cents in because I recently went through the same thing.

We were going to buy a 3 or 4 horse gooseneck (which is actually probably smaller than your two horse with room for a carraige would be!) and wanted a shiney new truck that would pull it well and also could be used for everyday driving. Like you we wanted a crew cab and a short bed as the truck would be driven in Los Angeles, and that the 3/4 ton would do the job. I'm an obsessive researcher and like to have all the info I can possibly get my hands on before making such a big decision. I researched on the internet, asked on the forums, asked everyone I knew who hauled horses, and test drove the Ford, Chevy and Dodge each three times! I also used Mr. Truck's paid advice service which was quite helpful since at the time I knew littleabout trucks. Here's what I found and what we ended up with and why ( and BTW we're very, veryhappy with our choice).

1) If you are going with a shortbed, make sure the trailer you get has a tapered nose, or get one of those hitch extender thingies, or the nose of your trailer might take out your truck's back window on a sharp turn.

2) Pretty much everyone will recommend the truck they have. i.e Dodge owners love Dodges, Chevy people love Chevys etc.

3) The vast majority of new car/truck dealers don't know anything about their product, so don't believe anything they tell you, especially when it comes to towing.

4) Sorry, but diesel is the way to go. Really. You really, really will be happier with it in the long run. a) There is no comparison in the power when towing a trailer, or even just driving around, and towing a trailer that big you are going to want the power to do the job, especially where you live with hills to climb b) you will get waaay better gas mileage with a diesel, whether towing or not, but especially when towing, c) they are more reliable and d) there is no comparison when it comes time to trade in your truck - if you put any mileage on it at all, a gas truck's value will drop like a stone, whereas the diesel will hold it's value fairly well (just go on the used car sites like cars.com and autotrader.com to check it out for yourself)

5) Make sure you compare apples to apples when test driving. For example a regular cab long bed will not drive exactly the same as a crew cab short bed evenif they are about the same length. And a 4WD does not drive the same as a 2WD. Even the tires can make a difference. Even the interior can make a difference as it will affect your overall impression. So if for example you are going to go with the higher end models, don't test drive the base model Chevy and compare it to the Ford Lariat. If the dealer doesn't have the configuration you want (as far as cab size, drive, engine and bedlength) find one who does to make your test driving accurate. Don't be shy about test driving several times, you are spending a lot of money. Also if the dealer doesn't havethe truckwith the options you want, don't be afraid to order one - you will be living with it for a long time.

6a)Chevy: My husband had a 2000 Yukon Denali (cousin to your Tahoe) and I found the Chevy 2500 truck felt a lot like the Yukon and it felt the most truck-like. I hated my husbands Denali, so I hated the Chevy :-). The Chevy's back seat is midway in size between the Dodge and Ford. (Stick the kids back there and see if it is big enough - now and for when they grow!). If I recall correctly the shortbed length is a little shorter than the Ford's but longer than Dodge. So the truck's overall length will be longer than Dodge but shorter than Ford. Their higher end model's interioris not as nice as either Dodge or Ford. My husband liked it at first because it drove like a truck and felt familiar to his Yukon Denali. I hated it because it drove like a truck, the ride was rough, the brakes were vague and it drove like his Yukon Denali :-)

3b) Dodge 2500: This is the quietest diesel.We liked the way it handled, and the brakes and steering (the brakes were quite tight, which we liked but are a matter of personal preference). It was far less truck-like in the way it felt than the Chevy. It has the smallest back seat of the crew cabs and the shortest shortbed, so it has the shortest overall length. (They do make a Mega Cab, with the biggest back seat of all, but I doubt you want that). We thought it would be the easiest to park around town because of the shorter length, but we were concerned that the back seat was too small and that with the shortest shortbed we would need both a tapered nose on our trailer and a hitch extender thingy to avoid taking out the back window. Dodge has a reputation for a long lasting engine but shoddy "little things" like knobs and handles etc. We heard from several people that the engine might last foreverbut the radio knobs, etc will be falling off in no time. I haveno ideaif this is actually true or not. Another thing that also concerned us was that they do not publish any towing capacity figures for gooseneck towing. The 2500 diesel was rated to tow a little less than 13,000 lbs with a conventional hitch, and although trucks are usually rated to tow about 25% more with a gooseneck hitch, Dodge didn't actually say that anywhere. Since ideally you want to bea couple thousand pounds belowthe maximum towing capacity, 13,000 lbs was cutting it close when you add up the weight of the trailer, horses, gear, hay, etc. (and in your case the carriage!). The higher end interior, while nicer than the Chevy,was not as nice as the Ford's.

4) Ford F-250. This is the one we ended up getting, (and I'll tell you what options below and why). The back seat is the biggest of the three, and the shortbed is the longest, making it overall the longest shortbed crew cab of the three, which was a minus for us. It also has a louder diesel engine than the Dodge, though about the same as the Chevy, which really bothered my husband at first but now he doesn't notice it (and it's not that noticable once you are inside with the windows rolled up!). The steering was a bit vague on the one we tested, though the options we added took care of that. The brakes were midway between Chevy's vague ones and Dodge's tight ones. The Lariat interior was the nicest of the three. The main reasons wechose it were 1) highest towing capacity (15,500 lbs), 2) longest shortbed, soour rear window would be safer, c) the (optional) Tow Commandintegrated trailer brake controller and the tow/haul moded) the relatively smooth ride andconfident brakes. So basically we found that of the three it was the best for towing, which after all was the reason we were buyinga new truck and not an SUV,and was more pleasant to drive around in than the Chevy due to the smoother ride, more confident brakes and nicer interior with more options. The options that we added that improved the steering and ride were 18" wheels and the camper package (basically beefed up suspension and stablizers bars, which help when towing but also generally improved the ride). For towing we also got the Tow Command system (integratedtrailer brake controller and towing mirrors) and limited slip diferential. We of course got the diesel engine and automatic transmission. And for comfort we got the Lariat package (leather seats, power everything) heated seats, power adjustable gas pedals, power sliding rear window (which is a trade off with a rear window defogger but a solid rear window), power moonroof, and for looks the chrome package (and it is one smokin looking truck if I do say so myself!). My husband and I are both really happy with the truck and the decision we made. He loves the power and I like the ride and comfort. We recently bought a 4H Hart GN aluminum trailer and you can't even tell you are towing anything unless you look in your rearview mirror!It eventowed up big long hills like a dream. And the combination of theintegrated Tow Command system and tow/haul mode makes for no-hassle towing,sort of plug and play for towing!

You will probably be happy with whichever truck you get as long as it's a diesel. After all, you'll get used to the noise, you won't get used to struggling up hills and lousy gas mileage. And if you don't get used to the noise you won't take a bath when you trade it in, whereas if you get a gas engine and trade it in because you hate towing with it, you will lose a lot of $$$.

Best of luck!

You didn't mention engine reliability in your comparasions. The 6.0 psd has much higher failure rate than the duramax or Cummins.and higher fuel consumption.,which may not be an issue if you don't tow lots of miles. The Ford is a really nice truck,the 6.0 engine is another story..
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TrishLLC
Reg. Feb 2005
Posted 2005-12-31 4:47 PM (#34641 - in reply to #34639)
Subject: RE: Ford vs. Chevy from a Newbie


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Location: Los Angeles, CA

I have heard different things from different people regarding reliability (usually in favor of the one they own ) and don't have personal experience with it, so I really can't comment, except that I have heard that the the 2003 and 2004 models were the ones with the problems and that they have since been fixed. But again, that's just what I heard from people in the know.  One way I judged it was to look at the rates charged by Warranty Direct (an independant warranty company) for an extended warranty.  The extended warranty on the Ford was cheaper than the one for the Dodge (didn't check Chevy as we had already ruled it out). Thus I concluded that either the Ford had fewer problems overall, or they were cheaper to fix.  Either way we have an extended warranty, so if there is a problem, except for the inconvenience, it's Ford's and the warranty company's problem more than mine.  (also we've had both a ford and a gmc, non trucks, and had fewer problems with the ford - fewest with the Lexus and Acura, but they don't make diesel trucks - yet

As for fuel consumption, there are no EPA ratings for these trucks, and I couldn't find any objective scientific comparisons, so again it's hard to say.  Our Ford started out at 16.5 mpg when we got it last month, and has climbed to over 18 mpg in combined city/hwy driving (which includes a lot of Los Angeles traffic) and is still in its break-in period and still climbing.  Which is a whole lot better than the Yukon Denali that we traded in for the truck! 



Edited by TrishLLC 2005-12-31 4:53 PM
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Painted Horse
Reg. May 2005
Posted 2005-12-31 5:16 PM (#34642 - in reply to #34444)
Subject: RE: Ford vs. Chevy from a Newbie



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Muleskinner, That sounds like sour grapes.

I've got friends with durmaxes that have had way more problems than my ford 6.0.

I used to do a lot of CTR and endurance rides. I'd show up at distance rides and see 60 to 100 rigs in the parking area. I've seen problems with all 3 brands of trucks. There is always somebody limping into camp late because they had some sort of rig problem. Some were just lemons. All three brands have a lemon here and there in their production. Some where maintenance issues. Some were design flaws. All three brands have some flaws.

My friend with a Dodge claims he carries spare brake pads in his glove box because he has to change his brakes so often. Yes my early 2003 Ford 6.0 had its computer reflashed several times and Ford replaced the ICP, and VGT, but I've yet to replace my brakes. (Brakes fall under the 36,000 mile warranty, Engines fall under the 100,000 mile warranty). Yes the Dodges get a little bit better fuel mileage, (They are a 6 vs an V8 for the others). The Ford & GM's usually accelerate a little better. They each have some limitations as well as features.

GM jumped their horsepower in 2006 and added an extra gear to help with fuel mileage. Ford will probably bump it's horsepower next year in order to match GM. Remember the last one to announce always claims the most power. Do I want to gamble on new technology from Ford in 07 or buy revised technolgy from GM in 06.

Any of the trucks you can buy today are a tremendous leap better than anything I owned 10 years ago. Choose the brand you like and go with it. The bigger questions are: Dually vs SRW, Long vs Short bed, Crew cab vs extended cab.
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muleskinner
Reg. Dec 2005
Posted 2006-01-01 2:12 AM (#34655 - in reply to #34642)
Subject: RE: Ford vs. Chevy from a Newbie


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Originally written by Painted Horse on 2005-12-31 5:16 PM

Muleskinner, That sounds like sour grapes. I've got friends with durmaxes that have had way more problems than my ford 6.0.I used to do a lot of CTR and endurance rides. I'd show up at distance rides and see 60 to 100 rigs in the parking area. I've seen problems with all 3 brands of trucks. There is always somebody limping into camp late because they had some sort of rig problem. Some were just lemons. All three brands have a lemon here and there in their production. Some where maintenance issues. Some were design flaws. All three brands have some flaws. My friend with a Dodge claims he carries spare brake pads in his glove box because he has to change his brakes so often. Yes my early 2003 Ford 6.0 had its computer reflashed several times and Ford replaced the ICP, and VGT, but I've yet to replace my brakes. (Brakes fall under the 36,000 mile warranty, Engines fall under the 100,000 mile warranty). Yes the Dodges get a little bit better fuel mileage, (They are a 6 vs an V8 for the others). The Ford & GM's usually accelerate a little better. They each have some limitations as well as features. GM jumped their horsepower in 2006 and added an extra gear to help with fuel mileage. Ford will probably bump it's horsepower next year in order to match GM. Remember the last one to announce always claims the most power. Do I want to gamble on new technology from Ford in 07 or buy revised technolgy from GM in 06. Any of the trucks you can buy today are a tremendous leap better than anything I owned 10 years ago. Choose the brand you like and go with it. The bigger questions are: Dually vs SRW, Long vs Short bed, Crew cab vs extended cab.
Sorry about the sour grapes. I tow about 90k per year and reliability and fuel economy are my primary concerns. I get both from the dodge ctd,
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hounddog
Reg. Dec 2005
Posted 2006-01-01 2:23 AM (#34656 - in reply to #34444)
Subject: RE: Ford vs. Chevy from a Newbie


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Well I won't recomend a brand but I will say BEWARE ofthe Ford 6.0s. 540% HIGHER warranty claims then the Duramax or Dodge Diesel.Its been eating Fords lunch in buybacks and warranty.Granted the 05s have been better but still a headache.Trade in value  on the 03/04 Ford diesels is LOW even at the dealer where purchased.Do your HOMEWORK before purchase.LOTS of sites like this one  devoted to diesels.I'm sure some won't want to read or hear this but its the facts.Autoweek just did a article on the 6.0 and it wasn't nice. www.TheDieselStop.com

Edited by hounddog 2006-01-01 4:54 AM
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dwnsouth
Reg. Jan 2006
Posted 2006-01-01 10:03 AM (#34662 - in reply to #34444)
Subject: RE: Ford vs. Chevy from a Newbie


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Just went looking to trade and many friends have bought Ford and Chevy.  What I have heard:

1. Inside-Ford more room than NEW Chevys by a mile-crew and extended cab included

2.Ford 6.0 not near what Duramax is and problems noted with 6.0.  A buddy traded 2001 Ford in on 2004 model and he says he wishes he had the 2001.  BUT older Fords still have more power than the new Chevys, from what I am told

3.Older Fords much more power than Chevy(new and old) but very heavy- dont go into mud, but older Chevy better around town/riding truck(Ford seats are very hard but more support on long ride)

I have both a 2002 Ford with 7. diesal(15 miles to gallon) and 1996 Chevy with detroit diesal(19 miles to gallon) and like both.  But use Ford for pulling and use Chevy for riding, even though Chevy pulled my 24 foot horse trailer for years with NO PROBLEMS whatsoever. 

Just for note-I decided to keep my two older trucks for a while longer.  I want the Ford roominess inside with the Duramax engine.  Think I could get a conversion???? Ha, Ha, Ha!!!!!!! 

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hounddog
Reg. Dec 2005
Posted 2006-01-01 5:20 PM (#34682 - in reply to #34444)
Subject: RE: Ford vs. Chevy from a Newbie


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But there is older Fords With late model CUMMINS being installed on a regual basis!
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efaubert1
Reg. Feb 2004
Posted 2006-01-03 7:14 AM (#34774 - in reply to #34444)
Subject: RE: Ford vs. Chevy from a Newbie



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Ok, I'll take a stab here for fun. Both Ford and Chevy have their good and bad points. As far as engines in NEW trucks, the Duramax seems healthier than the Navistar 6.0 PSD. In older, pre-2004 7.3L PSD Fords there is no comparisson in my opinion, Ford Wins. On to suspension, and this is the fun one. Since 1997 Ford has used a solid front axle, versus Chevys twin I-beam front suspension. Makes the Chevy ride nicer like a car, but has it's drawbacks. First, there are more moving parts and bushings to be replaced in the Chevy. Second, you lose ground clearance when the Chevy front end compresses, whereas with a straight solid axle on the Ford you maintain the same ground clearance whether the shocks are bottomed out or at normal rest position. Neither Ford nor Chevy are perfect, and both are worth looking at. As a Ford guy I just can't bring myself to wear a bowtie, but if they pulled the Chevy emblems and put Isuzu on it I MIGHT drive one occasionally.
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hounddog
Reg. Dec 2005
Posted 2006-01-03 8:36 AM (#34785 - in reply to #34444)
Subject: RE: Ford vs. Chevy from a Newbie


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I think Ford has done away with the straight front axel a while back.You need to do some reading about the 6.0s.www.TheDieselStop.com and other places.540 percent more warranty claims then Dodge or Chevy!
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hosspuller
Reg. Oct 2003
Posted 2006-01-03 9:26 AM (#34793 - in reply to #34774)
Subject: RE: Ford vs. Chevy from a Newbie


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Originally written by efaubert1 on 2006-01-03 6:14 AM

 Both Ford and Chevy have their good and bad points.

Since 1997 Ford has used a solid front axle, versus Chevys twin I-beam front suspension. 

I agree with the first statement ...

But as a Chevy owner, For two wheel drive vehicles only... Twin I beam suspension was Ford's. trade marked name.  My 2001 Chevy has a front torsion bar suspension.  Each front wheel is held in place by "A" arms and supported by a torsion rod.  both of these designs allows for an independant front suspension.

 

 

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TrishLLC
Reg. Feb 2005
Posted 2006-01-03 2:31 PM (#34821 - in reply to #34656)
Subject: RE: Ford vs. Chevy from a Newbie


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Location: Los Angeles, CA

Originally written by hounddog on 2006-01-01 12:23 AM

Well I won't recomend a brand but I will say BEWARE ofthe Ford 6.0s. 540% HIGHER warranty claims then the Duramax or Dodge Diesel.Its been eating Fords lunch in buybacks and warranty.Granted the 05s have been better but still a headache.Trade in value  on the 03/04 Ford diesels is LOW even at the dealer where purchased.Do your HOMEWORK before purchase.LOTS of sites like this one  devoted to diesels.I'm sure some won't want to read or hear this but its the facts.Autoweek just did a article on the 6.0 and it wasn't nice. http://www.thedieselstop.com/

Houndog,

I've tried googling that 540% figure and can't find it anywhere.  Would you mind letting me know what the source is? 

Also, the original post was about a new truck, not an 03/04, which did have some problems as it was the first year of some big changes and which I wouldn't have purchased either.

Also, thedieselstop.com is a site dedicated to Ford diesels, so you are not going to find posts about the other brands and thier problems.  And as they say themselves, that's where to go to get answers if you are having a problem with your Ford diesel, therefore by definition the people who are posting there have problems.  The ones with no problems have nothing to post about :-)

So, is the 05/06 Ford a lemon compared to the Chevy or Dodge?  Could be, but I sure didn't find any actual objective evidence to support that.  All I know is that for our purposes it suited us better than the other two, and so far has been a dream to own. 

Would I have been just as happy with one of the other two, well probably with the Dodge but not the Chevy because of the rough ride, though I seem to be the only one here who thinks it was rougher, maybe it's an 06 thing, or maybe it was just bad test driving luck!

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hounddog
Reg. Dec 2005
Posted 2006-01-03 4:24 PM (#34827 - in reply to #34444)
Subject: RE: Ford vs. Chevy from a Newbie


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it wasnt SOME problems.It was a LOT of problems with 1 or 2 out 10 being bought back.There are owners posting that have had THREE buy backs of the 6.0s. Auto week just did a report on amount of warranty and warranty moneys spent on the 6.0s. the 05 and 06s have been better BUT still a HIGH amount of issues as well as some that have NOT been cured in the entire time its been produced.Read the THEDIESELSTOP.COM forums and some of the archives for the last few months.Do a SEARCH there for percentages.The AUTO WEEK article was fairly recent.the FORD forums have TRIED to be gentle on THEMSELVES with some diehard Ford owners FINALLY blowing up in anger etc.Its a PIG and and Poke since it came out with the CONSUMER taking the blount of the hurt.The 6.0 ALSO has NO LOW END GRUNT which has been a issue for the manual shift guys.the ENGINE screams at mid to higher RPM but won't pull down low like a 7.3 or a Cummin.Most of the trucks are automatics cause the Ford Torqueshift (5 speed)SPLITS first and 2nd gear to get the load moving.Not MY kind of diesel and apprently not for a lot of ranchers and farmers.Lots of compliants about this issue.Do some JD Powers searchs as well as auto week and read the Ford forums andarchives.The INFO is out there.

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Reg
Reg. Oct 2003
Posted 2006-01-03 4:44 PM (#34828 - in reply to #34793)
Subject: RE: Ford vs. Chevy from a Newbie


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Originally written by hosspuller on 2006-01-03 9:26 AM

Originally written by efaubert1 on 2006-01-03 6:14 AM

Both Ford and Chevy have their good and bad points.

Since 1997 Ford has used a solid front axle, versus Chevys twin I-beam front suspension.

I agree with the first statement ...

But as a Chevy owner, For two wheel drive vehicles only... Twin I beam suspension was Ford's. trade marked name. My 2001 Chevy has a front torsion bar suspension. Each front wheel is held in place by "A" arms and supported by a torsion rod. both of these designs allows for an independant front suspension.




IFS on 4WD GM since '87 model year.
Torsion bars on my 3500.
"Twin I-beam" has been Ford's catch-mumble since way back - before m-soft invented the color blue.
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efaubert1
Reg. Feb 2004
Posted 2006-01-04 6:40 AM (#34848 - in reply to #34444)
Subject: RE: Ford vs. Chevy from a Newbie



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Hounddog,

You are misinformed my friend, Ford has not done away witht the solid axle front end, they went to coil springs instead of leaf springs for the front suspension. As for the words, yes "twin I-beam" was Fords catch phrase. As for Chevy, twin A-arms is theirs I guess, and yes I know the difference in the way they work. Anyway you cut it, the ground clearance is lost in any independent suspension truck when the suspension is compressed, or bottomed out. And Hounddog, Fords 6.0 in the older 03/04's did have signifigant problems, but not the newer 05/06's. I will agree that the 6.0 lacks compared to the 7.3PSD. Which by the way, I own. And as for the "reading up" on the front axle, I don't need to, I was under an 05 last week changing oil for the wifes uncle, and his front axle looks just like mine, solid.

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hounddog
Reg. Dec 2005
Posted 2006-01-04 8:14 AM (#34854 - in reply to #34444)
Subject: RE: Ford vs. Chevy from a Newbie


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Keep reading about the 6.0.The 05/06 are better but still lots of issues.Some of the same still haunting it.Much more trouble some then   Dodge or DuraMax.Much more.TheAuto Week article addresed this.Just keep reading and searching,you'll see.

Also note that the 6.0 will be a NEW and IMPROVED 6.4.For 07 and that the DEBUT date of the NEW and improved has been changed and moved forward.LOTS of folkes are curious to why!

Edited by hounddog 2006-01-04 9:21 AM
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TrishLLC
Reg. Feb 2005
Posted 2006-01-04 1:10 PM (#34876 - in reply to #34444)
Subject: RE: Ford vs. Chevy from a Newbie


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Posts: 18

Location: Los Angeles, CA

Hounddog,

You keep telling us about how the Ford 05/06 diesels are plagued with problems and if we would just search for the objective articles and statistics, including a recent article in Autoweek, we will find them.  Well, I've searched and I can't find em.  I found one forum entry refering to an Autoweek article about 03/04's, which everyone admits had problems, but nothing about 05/06's being more problematical than Dodge or Chevy.  

You say you have personally seen  statistics and articles by respected sources that the Ford diesel 05/06's have more problems than the dodge and chevy.  If that's true, please don't just tell us to keep searching, tell us where these sources you are quoting are located, since you must know because you said you saw them. 

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hounddog
Reg. Dec 2005
Posted 2006-01-04 1:28 PM (#34879 - in reply to #34444)
Subject: RE: Ford vs. Chevy from a Newbie


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Just do some homework and READ.Ford forums and J.D.Powers.The 6.0 is NOT a Cummins or even a DMax engine in the ease of ownership area.I don't know wherethe AutoWeek article is at the moment.It hit all the Diesel truck forums (Fords also)3 or 4 weeks ago with NEW stats on warranty dollars,recalls and Tsb's issued by manufactures in the past year.The Ford 6.0 was hands down MORE of EVERYTHING issued by 3 and 4 fold.Dodge was the least,G.M.next with a few and Ford was in the high numbers.Just letting non informed consumers know what anyone that reads or messes with the late model diesel stuff already knows.
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TrishLLC
Reg. Feb 2005
Posted 2006-01-04 1:39 PM (#34882 - in reply to #34879)
Subject: RE: Ford vs. Chevy from a Newbie


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Posts: 18

Location: Los Angeles, CA

Ok Hounddog, after this post I give up. 

I have searched and all I can find is opinions and assertions, no cold hard facts. 

You say you have seen the facts about the 05/06's but won't tell us where they are. 

If you can't point us to the sources then your comments are just hearsay, which makes them just an opinion. 

Opinions are fine, passing them off as fact is not.

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xyzer
Reg. Apr 2004
Posted 2006-01-04 2:14 PM (#34883 - in reply to #34444)
Subject: RE: Ford vs. Chevy from a Newbie


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I just googled ford 6.0 liter problems! Just feedback but worth looking into

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/recalls04/2005/ford_trucks.html

http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.ef3093e!make=Ford&model=F350%20Pickup&ed_makeindex=.ef3093e

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8203875/

http://www.fordforums.com/archive/index.php/t-33164.html

http://autorepair.about.com/od/faqs/l/bl424i.htm

http://www.plowsite.com/showthread.php?t=20404

 

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TrishLLC
Reg. Feb 2005
Posted 2006-01-04 2:58 PM (#34887 - in reply to #34883)
Subject: RE: Ford vs. Chevy from a Newbie


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Posts: 18

Location: Los Angeles, CA

Thanks xyzer,

I looked those up and three of the five were from forum posts by individuals about problems with the 03/04's.  The other two were the same article about a recall for a fix of 04/05's that might have a stalling problem.

By the way, if you google "problems" with "duramax" or "cummins" you'll get a lot of hits too :-

Keep in mind too, when looking for problems, that there are twice as many Fords sold as Chevy/GMC or Dodge, so that reports of Ford problems are amplified.

I'm not saying that Ford is a wonder product, just that I haven't found any objective evidence that the current model has any more problems than those of the other two makers.  And if someone is going to insist that it does, citing statistics and articles they say exist, they should be able to back it up by telling us where to find those statistics and articles (that's directed at hounddog, not you!)

OK, now I'm really off this subject.  I have to get back to my life :-)

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xyzer
Reg. Apr 2004
Posted 2006-01-04 3:13 PM (#34889 - in reply to #34444)
Subject: RE: Ford vs. Chevy from a Newbie


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anytime wayside...I didn't take much time reading what they pertained to, and you are right about the search on the others....they all have issues! I have delt with Ford on a warrenty issue years ago and they arn't going to get me again....It is Dodge and GM's turn I guess.

Edited by xyzer 2006-01-04 3:15 PM
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RoperChick
Reg. Dec 2005
Posted 2006-01-04 3:32 PM (#34890 - in reply to #34889)
Subject: RE: Ford vs. Chevy from a Newbie



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They all have their problems, as my diesel mechanic says "If you trade one truck brand for another, you are just trading one set of issues for a whole new set of issues, and some are worse than others".  

For instance, the Duramax's have serious fuel injection problems.  A few years back (98 & 99 I believe) Dodge had a problem with cracked blocks in Dodge Rams with the cummins 53 block.  As for the Ford 6.0, from everything I've read, it has had a larger than usual number of warranty problems.  The Ford 7.3 has been a good truck, but it has a problem with the CPS.  The good new is that it's inexpensive and easy to fix.

 

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hounddog
Reg. Dec 2005
Posted 2006-01-04 5:21 PM (#34895 - in reply to #34444)
Subject: RE: Ford vs. Chevy from a Newbie


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Those listed were early on.It got worse.Much worse.Just read TheDieseStop.com and its archives.The autoweek thread has been locked due to copyright laws with links as well.I read Diesel Forums on many sites and have for about 5 years daily.Sure all manufactures have issues.Ford and the 6.0 supasses just issues.Get your head out of the sand. red the Dodge forums and Chevy.NO where NEAR the issues of the 6.0s.In fact MORE discussions on those about Mods and how many miles etc.then issues.

Edited by hounddog 2006-01-04 6:16 PM
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krys
Reg. Oct 2003
Posted 2006-01-04 6:26 PM (#34902 - in reply to #34895)
Subject: RE: Ford vs. Chevy from a Newbie


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IMO, the 06's haven't been out long enough to really say there are more problems. Give it a year or 2 before you decide that. And with the 05's, give it another year. I'm not just talking about Ford, but with any make. If the problem's with the 04's make you believe that they are not the truck for you, than that is your opinion. There is always be someone else down the road that will think it is the right truck for them. I personally don't really care about the make of my truck. It just has to be comfortable for ME and fit MY needs. Granted, seeing what your friends have had and the good and bad things that has happened to them may influence your decision. It all comes down to your decision and what you want, like and need. Im not saying that no one should not post their opinion of what they like or what has happened to them with a particular make, just some may be important and some may not. Some you would weigh heavier and others you would take with a grain of salt.
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Painted Horse
Reg. May 2005
Posted 2006-01-04 8:31 PM (#34912 - in reply to #34444)
Subject: RE: Ford vs. Chevy from a Newbie



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I had an 88 Chevy, had so many problems I traded it within a year for a 89 GMC. Mainly because I couldn't get the parts to fix the problems. Same problems persisted in the 89 GMC, So I started buying Fords.

I have a 2003 6.0L. Built the 1st week of production. Yes it had some warranty issues. ICP, VGT, EGB, EGR, none of these left me stranded. I schedule appointments and took them in at my leisure. Ford has stood behind it and replaced each. Usually while I had the truck in for an oil change. Which the dealer has done several for free as a perk for putting up with warranty problems.

What more can a person ask of any Manufacture than to step up and make things right.

Yes my 6.0L lacks a little on the low end when I'm starting out from a light with 10,000-12,000lb trailer behind me. Once I hit 1500-1600 rpm, there is no question it's a better engine than my 2000 7.3L. I've learned to feather the throttle a little and get along just fine. It has more low end power than my stock 7.3L had, but not as much as my chipped 7.3L That's the nice thing about my 6.0L, it is pure stock, I've seen no need to spend a lot of money adding chips, exhaust and guages to help it's performance.

To hounddogs defense, I did read the Autoweek article several weeks ago. Ford has admited that the 6.0L has had more warranty claims than Ford expected or would like to see. Most of the warranty claims were with 03-04 trucks. They are coming out with the 6.4L to meet the 2007 Emissions which require Ultra low sulfer fuel. At the same time Ford bumped the engine displacement in hopes of improving the low end grunt that owners of the 6.0L have complained about.


Bottom line, all manufactures have some problems, They have yet to build the perfect truck. My Infinite has seen the dealer more in it's first year than my F350 every did. My neighbors Audi is a black hole of expenses. It's how they treat you that really makes the difference.
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MR176
Reg. Oct 2003
Posted 2006-01-05 4:22 PM (#34977 - in reply to #34912)
Subject: RE: Ford vs. Chevy from a Newbie


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I read the AutoWeek article and did not think it was very well written. It focused mostly on one couple's problems with their 6.0 Powerstroke. There have been more problems with the 6.0 than with the 7.3's, mostly caused by emmissions required equipment. I do not know any of the exact numbers, but I certainly do not believe 1 out of 10 have been bought back. I know at of at least 30 6.0 owners and none of them have been bought back. I spoke the the service advisor at my dealer, which sells a lot of diesels, and they have only had two 6.0's that required the head gaskets replaced (no buy backs). Many of the owners on thedieselstop.com that are having problems are running heavily modded 6.0's. I do not recall seeing the 540% number, but I would expect a larger number since last I read Ford sold more diesels the last few years than both GMC and Dodge combined.
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hounddog
Reg. Dec 2005
Posted 2006-01-05 5:17 PM (#34979 - in reply to #34444)
Subject: RE: Ford vs. Chevy from a Newbie


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Hey guys the 6.0 not mooded has been do do for Ford.I belive easy 1 in 10 brought back.There are posts from owners that have had 2 and 3 brought back before saying NO and getting a refund.Do your homework.I have nothing againt Ford.I have issues with ANY product that is shoved down the comsumers throats with huge issues.I had a service manager at a Ford tell me in 04 that the 6.0 was costing ford 1 million bucks a day in warranty repairs and buybacks.He was told that by his DSM.These sitesw are also the ONLY folkes that know and use a computer.Lots don't.Now the discussions on USED  or trying to trade in ANY 6.0.The OTHER dealers don't want them and Ford stores are low balling them also.
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Painted Horse
Reg. May 2005
Posted 2006-01-05 6:10 PM (#34981 - in reply to #34444)
Subject: RE: Ford vs. Chevy from a Newbie



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Hound dog you are quoting facts you can't back up. 1 in 10 trucks being bought back. Come on you can't believe that. I know a lot of 2003-2004 F350 owners and not one has had a buyback. In fact other than people on The Deiselstop, I know nobody who has had a buyback.

As far as value, go check any of the used car values sites. i.e Kelly Blue Book, NADA, Edmunds etc. I checked all three and computed an average difference. A 2003 with a 6.0 sells for on average $3200 more than a 2002 with a 7.3L with the same mileage and options. The 2003 trucks didn't cost $3200 more than the 2002 models. In fact my 2003 truck cost me $3000 more than my 2000 truck, Both with exactly the same options. So the 2003 trucks with a 6.0L has actually RETAINED better resale as a percentage of original sales price than a 2002 truck with 7.3L engine. I suggest that the lower resale of trucks today is due to high diesel cost and not whether it has a 6.0L engine.

You've got a chip on your shoulder about Ford and just want to argue with people about it. I'm done with this thread.
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RoperChick
Reg. Dec 2005
Posted 2006-01-05 8:52 PM (#34990 - in reply to #34981)
Subject: RE: Ford vs. Chevy from a Newbie



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Originally written by Painted Horse on 2006-01-05 4:10 PM

Hound dog you are quoting facts you can't back up. 1 in 10 trucks being bought back. Come on you can't believe that. I know a lot of 2003-2004 F350 owners and not one has had a buyback. In fact other than people on The Deiselstop, I know nobody who has had a buyback. As far as value, go check any of the used car values sites. i.e Kelly Blue Book, NADA, Edmunds etc. I checked all three and computed an average difference. A 2003 with a 6.0 sells for on average $3200 more than a 2002 with a 7.3L with the same mileage and options. The 2003 trucks didn't cost $3200 more than the 2002 models. In fact my 2003 truck cost me $3000 more than my 2000 truck, Both with exactly the same options. So the 2003 trucks with a 6.0L has actually RETAINED better resale as a percentage of original sales price than a 2002 truck with 7.3L engine. I suggest that the lower resale of trucks today is due to high diesel cost and not whether it has a 6.0L engine. You've got a chip on your shoulder about Ford and just want to argue with people about it. I'm done with this thread.

Painted Horse well said, thank you!

I too know a lot of people with Ford 6.0 trucks and not one of them have had a buyback or even enough problems to warrant one. 

 

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hounddog
Reg. Dec 2005
Posted 2006-01-06 12:00 AM (#34993 - in reply to #34444)
Subject: RE: Ford vs. Chevy from a Newbie


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All I keep saying is read and search.It has NOTING to do with Edmunds or Kelly Blue book.It has to do with facts and whats being talked about in the auto/truck world.I've read THE facts.iIm not going to try hunting them up.The FORD web sites don't like knowing about their trucks but its where most of it has been posted.Talk to some sales managers in auto dealers etc.Talk to techs and service managers in Ford stores that do a decent truck business.The 6.0 been eating their lunch.Enough of this thread I just hope some of you don't find out the hard way.All the info is out there.Ford posted the warranty moneys spent and the buyback figures.It was posted on TheDieselStop.com a while back.I belive it with no problem.I'm retired with about 30 years in the auto repair industary with 25 years running auto dealer service depts.I've seen many pigs in a poke over the years.wattch the dealers used truck lots.You'll see more late model 6.0s turning up.Folkes baling out.Been seeing the trend grow over the last year.More so as the warranty expires on them.

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TrishLLC
Reg. Feb 2005
Posted 2006-01-06 12:31 AM (#34994 - in reply to #34993)
Subject: RE: Ford vs. Chevy from a Newbie


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Posts: 18

Location: Los Angeles, CA

What do you guys say we all just ignore hounddog on this subject from now on?  The more we respond to him, the more his nonsense gets all over the internet, which I think just might be his agenda after all.

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hounddog
Reg. Dec 2005
Posted 2006-01-06 12:55 AM (#34996 - in reply to #34444)
Subject: RE: Ford vs. Chevy from a Newbie


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Its not bull.Its your money.Go buy one then. Its been ALL OVER the internet for several years.Chezz.

Edited by hounddog 2006-01-06 12:57 AM
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Reg
Reg. Oct 2003
Posted 2006-01-06 7:29 AM (#35000 - in reply to #34902)
Subject: RE: Ford vs. Chevy from a Newbie


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Originally written by krys on 2006-01-04 6:26 PM

IMO, the 06's haven't been out long enough to really say there are more problems. Give it a year or 2 before you decide that. And with the 05's, give it another year. I'm not just talking about Ford, but with any make. If the problem's with the 04's make you believe that they are not the truck for you, than that is your opinion. There is always be someone else down the road that will think it is the right truck for them. I personally don't really care about the make of my truck. It just has to be comfortable for ME and fit MY needs. Granted, seeing what your friends have had and the good and bad things that has happened to them may influence your decision. It all comes down to your decision and what you want, like and need. Im not saying that no one should not post their opinion of what they like or what has happened to them with a particular make, just some may be important and some may not. Some you would weigh heavier and others you would take with a grain of salt.


Right, they havn't been out long enough to say that they are LESS troublesome either - track records take track time, etc.

Nothing like a Ford vs GM vs Dodge topic to bring out brand name loyalties, buyers' remorse and just plain old ordinary

I might buy a Dodge Durango soon, I don't yet know how I'll defend THAT decision, but I'll probably find SOME rationale (-:

Oh Yeah - I saw on the idjit box last night that GM outsold Ford last year for the first time in many years. Sound byte news flashes being what they are. I think the Trailblazer outsold the Exploder. Whether or not that means it is a "better" vehicle, has better mahh_ketting, deeper discounts ("buyer incentives", excuse ME), etc. is debatable. I think KIAs outsell Mercedes - whatever THAT means.
(-:

WRT 6.0 specifically: Read ALL the diesel forums, they have ALL had problems with HPCR designs, which DO need cleaner fuel, better water separation, etc. These are NOT engines that can be run on lamp oil, kerosene, any old fuel a bit less volatile than gasoline. It seemed TO ME that GM was the first to encounter this, with the 6.6 duramax - and the first to really SOLVE it.
(subjective) Ford seemed to have treated it as a simple QC problem for too long, Dodge (Cummins) seemed to have had better filtration and water separation from day one.

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hounddog
Reg. Dec 2005
Posted 2006-01-06 12:25 PM (#35016 - in reply to #34444)
Subject: RE: Ford vs. Chevy from a Newbie


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Its not so much a fuel problem with the Ford has with the G.M.or Dodge.The Ford is been hit hard with oil leaks,headgaskets,cracked manifold y pipes,turbo failure etc.First threads this A.M. on The dieselstop was about buy back trucks and 05s with headgastet issues.
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Reg
Reg. Oct 2003
Posted 2006-01-06 12:40 PM (#35018 - in reply to #35016)
Subject: RE: Ford vs. Chevy from a Newbie


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Originally written by hounddog on 2006-01-06 12:25 PM

Its not so much a fuel problem with the Ford has with the G.M.or Dodge.The Ford is been hit hard with oil leaks,headgaskets,cracked manifold y pipes,turbo failure etc.First threads this A.M. on The dieselstop was about buy back trucks and 05s with headgastet issues.


Oh, I thought Ford owners just accepted that (little stuff) as "par".
What's a cracked y-pipe or turbo to a loyal customer ?
The whiners/gripers must be new Ford owners who aren't (yet) used to it, they will be.
(-:
Anyway, I'm just SO pleased that I didn't volunteer any of MY money to do an extended field test for them. If they'd GIVE me a truck - maybe, but I'd be SURE to sign up with USRider.

Seriously, the HPCR issues have been common and I really DO believe that GM, Bosch, Isuzu, et al were the first to hit them and the first to solve them.
General QC, lack of design verification testing, .... whatEVER - unacceptable.
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krys
Reg. Oct 2003
Posted 2006-01-09 10:13 AM (#35167 - in reply to #35018)
Subject: RE: Ford vs. Chevy from a Newbie


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Sounds like my Dodge. It's been down for over a month and after $4000 in parts, the stealership has no idea what is wrong with it. Of course this has to happen 10K niles after the warrenty ran out. We are waiting on Diamler Chrysler in Detroit to answer the "help" call they sent out last Thursday.

Maybe you guys can help me. I hooked up my truck to my friends computer reader and it gave me 3 codes, all ECM/PCM communication error. Dodge told me to bring it in, After spending $180 for their diagnosis, they told me that my ECM went out. I spent $200 on one from a wrecked truck like mine. Took it in to be programmed and Dodge told me they couldn't so I was at their mercy to spend $1200 for them to fix it. Was fixed and brought it home and within 24 hours, it was back to not starting. Towed it back to Dodge and they told me that my fuel injection pump was bad. It was $2500, but they said they would pay for it. Got it in and they said it is starting, but they are still getting those communication error codes. They are at a loss of what to do now and have asked help from the "tech support". Five days later, Detroit still hasn't gotten back to them.

In the past 3 months, my truck has completely died when driving down the road. Hubby gotted started by unplugging all the fuses. Whether this really fixed it, I don't know. Twice it has tried to die when idling. I gave it more gas and everything was fine. Going down the road it sputtered a bit and again, I gave it more gas and it was fine. Numerous times it will turn over but it won't start. My check engine light is sometimes on. And for some reason, sometimes my air bag light is on and the ckeck gages light. All my gages look right. Any ideas??

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TrishLLC
Reg. Feb 2005
Posted 2006-01-09 11:41 AM (#35174 - in reply to #35167)
Subject: RE: Ford vs. Chevy from a Newbie


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Posts: 18

Location: Los Angeles, CA

Hey krys,

Try these forums related to Dodge's, they all have specific forums for your truck and/or type of problem and if you post there you should find some help. 

http://www.dodgetrucks.org/forums/index.php

http://www.dodgetalk.com/forums/

http://dodgetruckworld.tenmagazines.com/forums/

Good luck!

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hounddog
Reg. Dec 2005
Posted 2006-01-09 12:17 PM (#35179 - in reply to #34444)
Subject: RE: Ford vs. Chevy from a Newbie


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www.dieseltruckresource.com
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Reg
Reg. Oct 2003
Posted 2006-01-09 2:32 PM (#35187 - in reply to #35167)
Subject: RE: Ford vs. Chevy from a Newbie


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Krys,
From the symptoms - and WITHOUT anything else - If it was mine I would be trying to understand what it is with the "communication errors".
Basically, if the various Exx and Pxx micro-computers can't understand each other they're likely to (paraphrased) "give up and default into a limp home mode".

From some of my background I have a very strong belief that electrical contacts are less reliable than the electronics that they interconnect, i.e. the plugs and sockets will usually fail before the circuit boards and the failures are most likely to be intermittent - at least initially. So although throwing in expensive circuit boards is simple and profitable to the shop, the problem is MUCH more likely to be in the connectors.

So, I'd get me a big ole can of contact cleaner, the biggest/best_est version of the schematics I could find (Mitchell's perhaps, but something better than Hayes or Chilton), particularly all the plug/socket connectors, then disconnect the battery and start unplugging sensors and xx_control modules and hose 'em off with contact cleaner. Along the way I'd be looking for corrosion in the connectors, frayed or abraded wires, etc.

I'd expect it to take a day, then I'd have the codes re-set and see which ones come back vs which ones have been scared off (-:

PS If the parts they've already put in there didn't fix it they shouldn't have charged you for their mis-diagnosis. Their learning curve shouldn't be a direct charge on your bill. Tell 'em to put the old ones back.
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hounddog
Reg. Dec 2005
Posted 2006-01-09 3:55 PM (#35191 - in reply to #34444)
Subject: RE: Ford vs. Chevy from a Newbie


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The ecms/pcms(brain)and most radios CANNOT be swapped from one vehicle to the next.There was a HUGE blackmarket(stolen)business on these items and ther manufactures(along with insurance companys) got involved to put a stop to the blackmarket sale of these items.A high mileage or older vehicle CAN have more then one thing fail in a short period.The 1998.5 through 2002 Cmmins with the VP44 fuel system has a pusher fuel pump(brings fuel from the fuel tank)to a injection pump(times and puts high pressure fuel through the injectors) If the pusher pump goes bad it starves the fuel cooled injection pump and lots of times hours/days/weeks later the damaged injection pump fails.Both give a similar sputter,die,won't run etc.Its a common repair.I have NO clue to the ECM problem other then battery voltage(cables etc)has to be 100% correct.No hidden corrosion etc.Join a few of the FREE Dodge diesel sites and post there.
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krys
Reg. Oct 2003
Posted 2006-01-09 8:59 PM (#35222 - in reply to #35187)
Subject: RE: Ford vs. Chevy from a Newbie


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Reg, you may have something there. DC tech support finally called back. They think is seems to be a short in my wiring harness. Which is what the stealership first told me. But they said they went thru it all and didn't find anything. That is why they went with their second diagnosis of my ECM being bad. I told them that if it was a short, then I shouldn't had put a new ECM in. Their response "the short or other problem in my truck is what made the ECM go bad". I will try and get my $1200 back for the ECM. According to 2 diesel mechanics and another local Dodge dealership ECM's and PCM's are reprogramable as long as you have the expensive equipment to do it. One shop told me they could do it if my truck was older, but he didn't have the newer equipment to do the newer trucks.

Anyways, we shall see what they tell me tomorrow. I am about ready to trade this in on a new Dodge anyway. All I have to do is sell my 'vette (wrong time of year) so I won't have the payments on it.  Anyone want to buy it??

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