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Location: Cheshire, Oregon | I have a horse that got impacted yesterday. After a trip to the vet, she was given an oral laxative solution by tube and we were sent home to watch and wait. No results so far. My question is the vet told me to feed her only warm water and bran mash, but she won't touch the mash or water and I am wondering if anyone has any tricks to get a fussy eater to take it in. I thought of adding apple juice or apple sauce?? Any suggestions before I haul her back to the vet? Except for a few scrapes over the years, I have had no trouble with my horses so this is new to me. Thanks in advance. |
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| http://www.barrelhorseworld.com/forum/thread-view.asp?threadid=55242&posts=3 Click the above for some help.
Edited by SG. 2005-11-12 12:52 PM
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New User
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Location: Western performance horse Hades | Does she not want anything at all? For example, if you offered her favorite would she still try to eat it? If yes, than she's just being finiky and try pasting or the apple sauce.
However, if she's turning her nose up at everything, just get to the clinic. Sometimes when they get impacted, it backs up in their stomach that's what reflux is. She might not want to eat because of all the pressure on the stomach and small colon caused by the impaction. |
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 Lucious Chocoholic Maniac
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Location: Ontario,Canada | Ditto to zipper!! If shes not touching anything at all get her back asap. I knew my guy was sick when he wouldnt even take a pop tart. What should have been a mild case of impaction turned into a full blown university study on colitis x. We had a newbie, fresh from university work on him (for 3 days!!!) before she realized she couldnt handle this case and called in the head honcho. One more day and he would have been dead |
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 Regular
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Location: MasonDixon | Why would he tell you to feed and water her if she's still impacted? Is she dehydrated? Did the vet do an IV? Has the oral laxative worked yet? If it's been over 24 hour's, I'd sure be hauling her to a good vet, one that is set up to do surgery. NOW!! When our mare impacted, the vet sucked everything off of her stomach...cause it sure wasn't going any where. I don't know how impacted your mare is, but our's required surgery. The vet reported the impaction was huge. They were able to work the impaction through without doing a re-section. |
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| Originally written by zipper on 2005-11-12 12:20 PM
Does she not want anything at all? For example, if you offered her favorite would she still try to eat it? If yes, than she's just being finiky and try pasting or the apple sauce. However, if she's turning her nose up at everything, just get to the clinic. Sometimes when they get impacted, it backs up in their stomach that's what reflux is. She might not want to eat because of all the pressure on the stomach and small colon caused by the impaction. DITTO PLEASE take this mare to the clinic and get some fluids in her |
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Location: Cheshire, Oregon | Thanks to all that have responded. Here is the latest...I called the vet back...of course it is a different one because I had to get the one on call this weekend. He told me to give her another dose of Banamine and wait a couple hours as it has not yet been 24 hours since the gastric tube of laxative was given, and he says it is usually very close to 24 hours before it works. I am taking her out several times a day to graze for 10-15 minutes at a time and she willingly eats grass. He says that if no results in a couple more hours to bring her back in and he will redo the oil treatment. He was not surprised about the not eating bran mash. A fecal yesterday showed some strongids which he says could contribute to the problem. Have had two opinions as to whether or not I should give wormer ASAP or wait until this episode is over. I love it when I get different opinions all from the same hospital. This one has a very good reputation, tho. I am just keeping a close eye on her and hoping we get a good outcome. |
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| THis post has some great articles that talk about the worms and worming and how it affects colic http://www.barrelhorseworld.com/forum/thread-view.asp?threadid=54792 Hope it helps.... I am afraid if I were you I would be loaded up and headed to the vet... at least maybe take her for a ride in the trailer around the block and see if that doesn't help get things moving...
GOOD LUCK and keep us posted
Edited by SG. 2005-11-12 3:42 PM
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Extreme Veteran
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Location: Nebraska | At this piont the vet may not be sure of the severity and is taking a conservative approach because of the mild signs, which is appropriate. It all depends on the condition and extent of intestinal necrosis. but it should be mandatory your horse management program improve to reduce future colic episodes. |
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Location: MasonDixon | Originally written by 3 Horse Mama on 2005-11-12 2:30 PM
Thanks to all that have responded. Here is the latest...I called the vet back...of course it is a different one because I had to get the one on call this weekend. He told me to give her another dose of Banamine and wait a couple hours as it has not yet been 24 hours since the gastric tube of laxative was given, and he says it is usually very close to 24 hours before it works. I am taking her out several times a day to graze for 10-15 minutes at a time and she willingly eats grass. He says that if no results in a couple more hours to bring her back in and he will redo the oil treatment. He was not surprised about the not eating bran mash. A fecal yesterday showed some strongids which he says could contribute to the problem. Have had two opinions as to whether or not I should give wormer ASAP or wait until this episode is over. I love it when I get different opinions all from the same hospital. This one has a very good reputation, tho. I am just keeping a close eye on her and hoping we get a good outcome. Let us know how your horse is doing. I hope by this time your up to your knee's is poop! |
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Location: MasonDixon | We have had one mare impact colic twice. The first time, it was December. After 24 hours, she was at the vet clinic for surgery. She was very sick and stayed for 10 days. This very good vet told us to make sure we fed her a flake of alfalfa daily. Two and half year's later, she did it again. The time of the year was summer. Within 12 hour's of showing sign's of colic, she was again in surgery. This time the vet told us to never ever feed her bermuda hay. While this mare was on pasture, she also had a 8 week old colt by her side and was getting bermuda hay along with her alfalfa. Research has determined, in some horses, it is the major cause of impact colic because there is not very much moisture in bermuda hay. This mare's forage is now grass and Chaffhaye. http://www.chaffhaye.com/index.htm |
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Location: Cheshire, Oregon | Latestest update is that while waiting for the vet to return our call Saturday, we loaded the mare up into the trailer and she proceeded to poop twice in half an hour. Both were covered in oil. The vet then advised us to keep up the 3x daily walks in pasture and allow grazing for 15 minutes, and eventually add small amounts of german timothy back into her diet. I watched her off and on all night and she pooped twice more and is acting alert and much more normal, definitely wanting to eat. I am still concerned about the small quantity of water she is ingesting. I have it at room temp to slightly warm. The weather is crummy most of the time here this month so there is a lot of water on the grass, maybe that keeps her from being very thirsty?? In the 7 years we have had her, her diet of german timothy, cup of whole oats, Horse Guard and several acre pasture grazing hasn't changed much and we have had no problems. I did give her Strongid to get rid of her worms as per the vet yesterday. I had not done the big purge this fall to try and save on expenses, but ovbviously that was dumb. Live and learn. I feel as if we have dodged a bullet this time but I am concerned about the future with her. Thanks to all for the input. |
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Location: MasonDixon | I'm so glad your mare is doing better. I doubt if sane people would understand how excited horse people get when a colicky horse poops!!  We point to it with as much pride as when potty training our first child. Can you monitor how much your horse is drinking? Try flavoring it. We have one that we bought out of Montana who didn't like our Arkansas water. We tried everything from a filter to Vanilla Coke. |
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| That is awesome news!!!!
gotta love those Trailer poops!!!! We have crummy weather here too... I add one eating spoon full of sea salt twice daily to their grain in the winter. Keeps them DRINKING. |
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Location: Perry, Georgia | I'm so sorry to hear of your colic episode. I have an Arab mare who has been a chronic colic problem. It's left me a bit of an expert. (I am also an around-the-clock poop watcher! People who havent been through this think I am nuts.)
It sounds like the crisis has passed (I hope so.) My guess is parasite damage or worms. Have you tried the Panacur power pac and also (very important) gotten a fecal test taken? That is a must as a starting point.
She probably has worms. In my case, my horse had a resistance to the normal wormers for strongyles (including Strongind C2x) all of the "p's". So the diligent worming I was doing was useless. I finally went to Quest Plus Gel, it cleaned her right out. I tested 10 days later, no worms. None. It took me to ask for the parasite tests and pose the issue of resistance to pyrantel tartrate. Sometimes you need to take matters into your own hands.
Every feeding she and my gelding (who has, praise God, never coliced) get 1/4 cup of vegetable oil (sunflower or safflower), I've had them on Safechoice by Nuetrena (recemmended as excellent for starch-related colic) but am looking at Triple Crown w/ rice bran (14%) since I'm not crazy about pellets.
I now add soaked beet pulp (soaked for at least 3 hours) and ALL food gets turned into a mash by pouring lukewarm water into the bucket. They also get Fastrack probiotics. Also, I now soak their hay. Down here in Georgia we have a big problem with sand colic, another thing you might want to look into.
Keep up the rotational worming and keep their diet high in fiber. I hope some of this advice helps. It's my guess if I got to the bottom of her parasite problem much earlier, I would not have had to learn so much the hard way. |
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Location: Cheshire, Oregon | I don't think we are out of the woods yet, with this horse. Vet says she should have passed a "huge" amount of soft stool by now. She is regularly passing smaller amounts of stool, but no large bulk, which would indicate that the impaction has passed. She is eating grass well, small amounts of timothy and small amounts of water. I have tried all the suggestions from this site on getting her to drink more, not much change. She perks up some with Banamine but just not her usual self. I have an appointment to take her back in today. I will redo the fecal test and be sure we addressed that sufficiently, otherwise I not sure what else to do. I appreciate all the suggestions. |
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Extreme Veteran
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Location: Nebraska | Can you hear gut sounds in all quadrants of the stomach, what do you hear and how often, push in on the gut in the high locations and does you hand get pushed out from the gut movements. This will tell you how the gut is responsding. |
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Location: Cheshire, Oregon | Gut sounds are still reduced, acording to vet visit today. He tubed her again, gave her more mineral oil and electrolytes and did a rectal. He says she is clear as far as he can reach now which is better than Friday, when she was definitly blocked. He also took a blood sample just to make sure no underlying problem. She is passing more normal looking stools but still less than normal amount. He thinks she is clear but not eating enough to get gut really going again. Plan is to try half feed tonight and full tomorrow and see if she gets achy again. We'll see. |
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Location: MasonDixon | It seem's like I read somewhere that heavy tape worm infestation would cause a blockage. Most wormer's don't get tape worm's. You have to use Zimecterin Gold by Merial. Another thing, since she's been oiled twice, you might ask your vet about giving her some Fastrack or Probios. These are feed additives to put the good bacteria back in and helps digestion. Get's their gust to working like it should again. The Fastrack we have used is a powder (sold in 5# bag) and Probios is a paste. To get more water in her, I'd turn her feed to slush and even wet the hay. If she grazes, spray that with water. We did that with that Montana mare. I know your probably at your wit's end. Shame you can't give her chicken soup...that cure's most everything!
Edited by Lobo 2005-11-15 11:29 PM
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Location: Perry, Georgia | Horse mama, I'm so sorry to hear about your colic. They are such a nightmare. It does sound like she's doing better though. How old is she? How much does she weigh and how much grain do you feed a day. You say this is the first time she's coliced so I really hope its an isolated problem. I found there are 5 main causes: 1) worms 2) change in weather 3) wrong grain or grass 4) overfeeding- of course, the old round bale problem or they get into something or they are getting too much food to pass. 5) not enough water. 6) oh yeah, one more thing: sand. Do you live in the Southeast or a sandy area? I hope you'll tell us what the results of her fecal tests are. If you suspect tapeworm, might I recommend Equimax. It has more of the needed ingredient than Ivamectrim plus. Also, if you do find it is worms I suggest just using a Panacur Power pac, that will get rid of everything. Some worms are so microscopic they cant be picked up in a test. In the meanwhile, try soaking her hay in water for at least 3 hours before feeding, put a little sea salt (not iodized!) in her grain, about 1-2 teaspoons- it will make her drink more water and if you want to share what you are feeding her she may need a new feed given the change in temperature or her particular age. I hate colic so much. It is one of the worst things us horsey moms have to endure. I hope this helps. If we keep the dialogue going, we should find a solution. I find vets are not terribly helpful in treating the cause, just quick to recommend surgery after the fact. Unless she has twisted a gut I see no reason for surgery. She may have a small ileal opening which means she gets impacted easier, that's why making a mash out of her feed is a good idea or feeding small portions 3 times a day. Good luck! |
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Location: Nebraska | Has your vet suggested a ultrasound yet? I don't think I would use digestive aids? Imo used in equine they are more for placebo. |
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Location: Perry, Georgia | Horsemom, I wanted to add one more point but when I hit reply it disappeared . Your vet should have put the mineral oil through the first time. I don't mean to be down on your vet but it doesnt sound like he/she is handling this situation well. Did he/she intubate, give her banamine and flush with at least one gallon of mineral oil? If not, imo, she wasn't treated properly. Also, telling you to feed her was the wrong advice. They need to not eat until you are sure everything passes. At that point you gradually start feeding them their normal rations in a mash (start with a handful, then increase to a scoop for their next feeding, next feeding increase a bit more and so on) until you are sure they are passing everything normally. It's usually about a 3 day process before they are allowed to be eating normally. Also still curious as to the answers to my last post: how old, how much does she weigh and what/how much does she eat? |
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Location: Cheshire, Oregon | In answer to your questions, yes she was tubed twice with mineral oil, given banamine, we waited to feed her, tried the bran mash which she won't eat. She is 1000 lbs., 7 1/2 years old and is fed a fleck of German Timothy hay twice a day along with 1/2 cup whole oats in with her Horse Guard. Plus she is on pasture most of the year except in the middle of winter. My first reply also disappeared...into the unknown.  |
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Location: KY | I use the Combo Care moxidectin/praziquantel when I suspect tapeworms or on a new to us horse. Since your horse is used to whole oats, maybe she would eat some nice warm wet oatmeal? That might be more appetizing to her than the bran. Hope things are going better for both of you. This is such a troubling ailment. |
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Location: Perry, Georgia | rose, I like the combo cares, too. I just used Quest Plus Gel and got a completely negative reading for any worms. There is however a lot of controversy surrounding the moxidectin (undeserved in my opinion but worth noting.) I wouldnt want an owner to use it without hearing both sides. Also, given that Horse Mom's mare hasnt been fully diagnosed yet it's probably better not to use it on any horse that might be ill. |
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Location: KY | i've been told by vets that you have to be more careful about the weight of the horse when using moxidectin. |
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 Extreme Veteran
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Location: Ontario - east of TO | yes you have to at least weigh tape before giving the drug.... but then you should be doing that for any wormer - it's just that this one is much stronger. So the thing that make it more effective also makes it easier to overdose the horse. |
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Location: Cheshire, Oregon | Just when things began to calm down and I slept through the whole night without getting up to check on my mare, our second horse (of 3), got impacted. This time I did not wait 2 minutes...took her in Saturday and had her tubed with mineral oil and today she passed a large amount of really foul smelling soft stool and is feeling just fine. Vet still thinks it is combination of cold weather, poorer hay than normal, possibly tape worms, and taking them off most of the pasture in order to save it from getting trampled over the winter (which we do every year). How can I keep track of number/amount of stools, water consumption, etc. and let them have free access to barn and pasture 24/7 which everyone says is the best for them? Never had any trouble before this and am really baffled by it? |
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Location: Perry, Georgia | Horse mama, I'm sorry this is so long but as I suspected you have a bigger problem then one colic. I dont get it. Does your vet know this is tapeworms or is he/she guessing? If it is tape worm, he should have told you to treat them with Equimax, at the very least, and right away. But enough about that for a moment. I'm going to write what I originally wrote and I'm sorry that it is so long. Here goes: I’m really sorry you’re going through this. The foul smelling stool means the food is laying in their gut way too long, it’s a bad sign. It just means you need to handle the situation, right away. First of all, taking them off pasture means you have probably taken away their best form of forage. That needs to be made up for. I strongly suggest you rethink feeding them oats. There are some really good feeds on the market. You need something higher in fiber and nutrients. Oats are empty calories and really easy to impact. It also sounds as if they do have worms. (Do you worm them regularly or have them on a daily wormer?) It sounds as if you vet did not take a fecal parasite count. That is too bad. You really need to know what you are treating. Is it strongyles or is it tapeworms? Since you don’t know you should use Panacur Power pack. More on that in a minute. I would gradually change over their feed. You might want to try Nuetrena’s SafeChoice, for example, it’s a really good feed for horses who colic. Gradually transition them over from the oats. Cut out the supplement for now and make their feed into a mash. Also, I’d put in a big scoop of Beet pulp (make sure you have soaked it for at least 15 minutes before you feed it to them. I soak mine for at least a few hours.) Also, I don’t know much about the Timothy hay (are you feeding this from bales or from bags?) but I do know I soak all my hay. Soak it for hours, until it becomes like pasta! Your horses need to get more hydration, All of this will push fiber through their body, keep digestion going and clean out their systems. Also make sure they have free choice salts and minerals. In the next day or two put all of your horses on Panacur Power Pack (it’s expensive but worth it.) It’s a 5 day program of deworming. I would not suggest Quest Plus at this point, because I’m not sure how healthy their systems are. Quest (Moxidectin) is toxic at 5 times its dose, Panacur and Safeguard (Fenbendazole) aren’t toxic until about 100-200 times their dose. I really wish however that I knew how bad the infestation is and what you are dealing with. If you are dealing with a really heavy load of worms the danger can be in worming them when the parasites start to die off. I really think you need a new vet. You should have a fecal count before and after you do this. If you want to really play it safe try a dose of Equimax (Ivermectin)- treats both stngyles and tapeworms- wait 10 days, get a real fecal count so you know what you’re dealing with. Then you can always re-treat them with the more powerful treatments. I know this sounds confusing and I’m sorry, also it may seem like an overwhelming amount of work but it’s worth it. You have to get at the root of the problem as, right now, you are treating the very dangerous symptoms. Good luck. I’m sure others will have different suggestions, I just hope you find the right answers. One other thing, make sure you are not overfeeding, If you’re horse is 1000 lbs for example, for Safe Choice you only need about 5-6 lbs. a day. Make sure you feed twice a day, not all at one time. Oats and supplements are a really bad combination for horses since it’s too easy to impact on oats and it will not give them the nutrition they need. Also, the SafeChoice has probiotics in it. You may want to put them on the Fastrack Probiotics on top of it. I don’t recommend any other brand. It will really move their digestion along and promote fermentation in their gut. Also don’t forget the major reasons for colic (listed in my first post.) Always keep them in mind. Worms are a huge problem this time of year. They take refuge from the cold in your horses intestines. |
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Location: Cheshire, Oregon | Thanks again for all the info. To answer questions...fecals were done and were positive for some stronglyes, no sign of tapes but does not mean they don't have them, I do worm every two months with rotational wormers, had not done the Equimax for November when this started, they only get 1/2 cup of oats daily, their main source of food is timothy hay which they have been on for 7 years. Yes, this years hay is not quite as good quality, I feed twice a day, 12 hours apart. Gave the Strongid one week ago and have to wait 3 more weeks to give Equimax. I have them back out on the whole 4 acre pasture again but it is past growing season and not a whole lot of feed on it at the moment. Second horse doing just fine today. I am holding my breath and keeping close eye on them. |
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Location: michigan | 1/2 cups of oats? What is the point then of feeding them? |
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Location: Cheshire, Oregon | Point of oats.....years ago, when they were fussy about eating their vitamins, vet suggested adding small amount of oats and we have done that ever since, still picky about vitamins but 90% get into them if oats in the feed tub. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 378
Location: Nebraska | What I would do is call in a Equine Nutritionist. To find one in your area either go to www.acvn.org or call Mary Swenson (217)356-3182 ext 20. There are 2 types of nutritionist, private consultant, or public employees of a university or extension. Public employees will normally do a one time on the farm look-see evaluation, somtimes it's free. If there requries another on the farm look-see evaluation, they will normally ask for a donation to the university or extension. Remember equine nutritionists are equine nutritionists, they have spend 5 or more years specializing in equine nutrition, They (most times) will not recommend a brand feed, but can do feed formulations and supplement evalutions. I trust my vet as most do, and he has to many letters after his name, but not one of them stands for equine nutrition |
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Location: Cheshire, Oregon | Thank you for that suggestion. Will call Oregon State in the a.m. and start there, before I think of getting rid of 6 ton of timothy that may or may not be the problem. |
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Regular
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Location: Perry, Georgia | Mom, I'm so glad the kids are doing better today. I hope it continues. It sounds like they might have resistance to Strongid (pyrantel pamoate), this happened with my mare even though they were on StrongidC2X daily! After a mild colic revealed a heavy fecal count, I gave them a shot of Quest Plus Gel. After that they came back zero for worms. I just gave them a shot of Equimax an hour ago since it's bot season down here and plunging temperatures are another great trigger for colic. I really hope you dont have to dump the Timothy hay. If it is a bad batch, as in not as good as previous seasons, it's got less moisture and protein (hence the suggestion to soak it and give them something besides oats.) It would be great if your local univ. or government office could put together a feeding program for you. If they cant, I believe the formula is 10% grain, 20% hay. That means a 1000 lb horse should get 10 lbs of feed, 20lbs hay. I think that's a bit much but it does show that domestic horses need a combo of both. Although it's not like they get sweet feed in nature, so who knows! I do know however they are more likely to impact with oats. The SafeChoice is designed to guard against colic., it might be a good vehicle for you to use to get them to take their vitamins. It sounds as if they definately need more fiber in their diet. It also sounds like you are getting a handle on things. I pray to God it all works out. I wouldnt wish colic on anyone! It's every horseowner's nightmare. Best of luck and let us know what happens! Anne |
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Bran mash for an impacted horse
