I agree, it's just not healthy to feed a horse once a day. Horses are natural grazers and are "built" to eat constantly. In addition, non-performance horses need to consume approximately 1.5% to 2% of their body weight in feed per day - an average horse (1,000 lbs.) needs about 16,000 calories a day. If he is feeding hay and grain, the hay should be about 12 lbs. per day and the grain about 5 lbs. per day.

I don't believe I have ever seen one for horses, but is there such a thing as a feed container with a timer on it? I have one for my cats that you set a timer for the lid to pop open so the cats get their food. It works great if you are going out of town or will be gone all day. If you could find one that would release a ration of grain at say 8:00 every morning, then your friend could go out there in the afternoon and give the horse his second feeding. The horse really needs a ton of hay, too......about a 1/2 bale per day.

Another thought......is there anyone else at the barn that he could work out a trade with? Maybe he could feed his horses and theirs in the evenings and they could feed their horses and his in the mornings. It would be worth exploring and would certainly be much healthier for the horse.

If gas prices are "killing him", then maybe he should sell the horse or lease it out to someone with a little more common sense. I know, I know not everyone who boards, can have available turnout time for their horse and have things be perfect. To stall a horse, "23/7", is pure torture, IMO. Not only physically unhealthy, but psychologically unhealthy for horses. Cribbing, stall weaving, windsucking, etc. will soon become the cure for this horse's boredom. In my opinion, again, "extremely cheap" people have no right to own a horse. Horses are not cheap to own, to care for and to maintain.  Have your friend look into another situation that will not only suit him but his horse as well. This would only be better for both of them in the long run.

Why is your friend so willing to welcome any negative or positive comments? Get a clue here!

I have a friend that stalls 24/7 at the fairgrounds, but they ride daily and feed twice a day. Horses, in my opinion were not meant to be locked in a stall all the time. if I couldn't keep my horses on at least dry lots with round bales and feeding grain twice a day I wouldn't keep them anymore.

As for timed feeders I swear i saw them at the horse fair. Kinda expensive if I recall, but maybe cheaper than fuel in the long run. So who fills the water for this guy? Cause 5 gallons a day won't normally cut it.

I agree----- If you love and respect the horse SELL IT or move it closer to you so you can spend time with it. I used to board my horse 20 minutes away when we lived in a subdivision. It almost killed me and he had free access to pasture.I still deal with some of the bad habits from not spending the time with him that I needed too. They really aren't a part-time thing.Best of luck.

Timed release feeders are his only choice.  If he is that cheap I pray his horse never gets hurt...it'll be the old you want me to shoot $200 worth of X-rays only to spent $500 on surgery, well how much would it cost to put him down...$50, let's do that!

He better never have kids!

ive never seen a $50.00 bullet.  is that really what a vet charges?

My vet put my last horse down for free but it cost $50 to get a back-hoe in to dig the hole.  It'll cost me another $50 to put his favorite tree on top of him this spring...I had to let his grave settle so the tree wouldn't sink into a hole like it did on my POA.  I put a really nice tree on my app and now all the horses at the vet's office stand around and sleep under it!

Shooting a horse in the head is way too violent for me...but chadsalt I hope noone that owns a horse would be able to do that.

Around here people will pay to come and pick up the body, I think around $150.  Some vet's just pocket this and then charge a fee to the customer as well.

Huntseat ... A bullet is quicker than the needle.  I've read of a horse thrashing as he fought the drugs.  (Equus)  I held my old dog as the drugs worked. I felt his struggle as the solution went into his vein. 

Done properly, A bullet acts faster.  The key is properly. (Between the eyes is NOT.)

Doing the final act is just another part of the responsibility, one accepts as part of animal ownership and care. 

Our first horse taught me everything I know about horses; riding, feeding, care and the final act. I hope everybody is willing if not able to care for their animals. 

The friend of the OP doesn't seem to understand a horse isn't a motorcycle to be stored until use.

Sorry,

I could never shoot my horse.  It might be quicker, I don't know, and I don't want to find out.    Hosspuller, you go for it.  I've had to have two horses put to sleep.  It was peaceful, which works for me.  The cost is not a factor. 

I thought this discussion was about this poor individual that could only afford to take the time and gas to feed his horse once a day. 

damn hosspuller something else we agree on.

originally i was curious as to the fee and the bullet remark was somewhat of a smartass comment.  i would be really hacked off if my vet, that took care of that animal, charged me for a few dollars of drugs to end its suffering. that being said i will never find out.

this is of course only my opinion, growing up on a farm around animals and guns, ive had the unfortunate experiance of putting down all sorts of animals. it is not pleasant however, however it is MY responsability. now im certainly not saying everyone should buy a gun when the time comes, most people are not mentally or physically able to put down an animal PROPERLY. and like hosspuller said, hot lead at 700mph, in capable hands, is for all intents and puposes immediate. drugs are not. i owe the animal the best i can give, and in my opinion that is the bullet.

a few years ago my wife had to have her little lap dog of 10 years put down. she couldnt bear the though of me doing it with a gun so he ended up at the vet.  after she watched as he was prepped and given the injection, (out rather excesslively large syringe in my opinion.) he did just sort of lay down in her arms, but it was obvious he was somewhat uncomfortable. i was informed after the grieving that i would be responsable for all future "ending of suffering".

 Yeah... the discussion has veered somewhat.  All good respectful discussions reach further than the first posting.  That said: 

"...The friend of the OP doesn't seem to understand a horse isn't a motorcycle to be stored until use..."

Perhaps we should ask why the friend wants or has to keep the horse in a stall for 23 hours a day.

Chadsalt,

"  i would be really hacked off if my vet, that took care of that animal, charged me for a few dollars of drugs to end its suffering. that being said i will never find out. "

What do you do for a living?

So what you are saying is that you think a doctor of veterinarian medicine should charge you nothing for his services to peacefully end the life of your animal? You think euthanasia solution is free? Do you have any idea how much a bottle of euthanasia solution costs to buy? Do you think the fuel is free for the vehicle the veterinarian uses to drive to your home or to his place of work each and every day? Do you think his time is free, his knowledge, his professionalism and his 8 years in veterinary school so he can be the  best at helping animals that have no say in the matter?

"and like hosspuller said, hot lead at 700mph, in capable hands, is for all intents and puposes immediate. drugs are not. i owe the animal the best i can give, and in my opinion that is the bullet."

Drugs are not capable of being immediate? How so? What happens when you get a bad shot and you have a frickin' bloody mess and your horse is thrashing around? Have you ever experienced a horse being humanely euthanized? You owe your animal the best you can give by giving them the bullet? Unbelievable your mindset.

If you feel a $1 bullet shot into the head of the animal you love is the best way for you to end the suffering to this animal then go for it. But don't think for  minute that a veterinarian is going to charge you a few dollars to euthanize your animal.

Chadsalt -

Somehow I think you get your jollies out of seeing what type of emotional responses your posts get.  I don't believe for one minute your wife had her dog euthanized by a vet and due to the horrible experience now wants you to shoot the rest of the animals.   But whatever makes your boat float.  I think in today's world you and hosspuller are in the minority. 

wow with that much hostility you may not need a gun.

and as ive mentioned before i drive a truck.

so what exactly pissed you off more? the fact i would end the horses suffering myself, or you thinking im trying to screw the vet? let me guess you have a realtive in the vet business? i was only referencing the drug, not the service call or removal of the body, a man has to make a living.  and no i dont know what a bottle of the "juice" costs, but i do know what a bottle of 3-way costs and what i am charged for a "dose".  yes with drugs the animal goes down quick but it still takes time to stop the heart and then the brain.

as for "Have you ever experienced a horse being humanely euthanized"....yes. have you seen one put down with a gun?

and "What happens when you get a bad shot and you have a frickin' bloody mess and your horse is thrashing around?" i wouldnt know....ive never missed.  but im guessing it wouldnt be chasing him down and beating him to death with the shovel.

 i can certainly understand how you see my "mindset" as unbelievable, but remember yours is just as foreign to me. like i said most people are not mentally or physcially capable, this does not change what is right for me and mine.

Scared from CHILDHOOD!  My father took my horse to the canners on Christmas Eve to save the $.  The horse was born on the property and should have died on the property, not driven 30 miles away and shot between the eyes with a gun.  I also don't think she should have been shot with a gun on the property.  I'm sure my thinking is not unique to California, at least I hope not.

As far as the traffic accident question, I hope it never happens but I'll cross that bridge when and if I come to it.

Verushka.. Chadsalt may be a bit inflammatory sometimes... Don't take the bait and respond with more heat. 

The original subject of a horse confined 23/7 was emotion ladden enough to people that sacrifice greatly to have horses. 

A further explanation in my case:  The reason for using a gun to euthanize my horse was two fold.  It was required by his declining health AND my education.   Drugs were not in my experiance, the best or only solution.  Also, only a vet has access to the drugs needed for euthanasia.  I'm a trail rider.  Many times we're in places far from vet help and support.  Learning to do something as difficult as putting a beloved horse down requires the best of conditions.  It was far from easy.  Doing the final act the first time in an emergency situation is a path to poor results, as some posters have alluded to.  (we had a vet with us on a trail ride in the mountains a while before.  The conditions on one stretch of trail were so hazardous. such that around the campfire later, the vet confided he worried about how he would put down a severly injured horse without his medical kit.  I didn't like his solutions at all)  With a gun, I am better prepared, thanks to my first horse.  I am thankful for all that he taught me.

So... while many people couldn't actually pull the trigger, it's useful to have someone around that can.  We're all different and all should be glad of it, not spiteful about it.

well said.

Well said hoss! I was going to respond with something like this. There are times were are 15 miles from a phone out on the trail. Forget cell phones, they don't work where I live. Do you know how long it would take me to walk back to a phone to call a vet because my horse was down? Then the time it would take for a vet to get out there, my horse would be suffering for a very long time. IMO, that is not humane. All it would take is a simple slip, or stepping into a hole. I have never done it, but when it came down to it, do I really have a choice? When the time comes to have my horse put down, I will call the vet to do it. But if I'm out in the middle of no where and have no choice, a gun will have to do it.

The whole "bullet to the horse's head" issue can go two ways. Shoot the horse in an emergency, such as on  a mountaintop trail and the horse is injured with a bad prognosis, or hit by a car or in a trailering accident and in the hands of a police officer. These are situations I have no problems with what so ever. The situation I do have a problem with is shooting a horse that is on your own property and it is "time" to end its life instead of  a  veterinarian euthanizing the horse for the owner. Whether it is to save money or what have you but I just found it quite odd that someone didn't think they should pay a veterinarian to euthanize their animal. Uneducated in the medical world or non-trusting to doctors, I'm not sure.  Call me a softy, or someone who just has a little more respect towards my 4-legged friends. I would choose  the injection method when the time arises.

 Euthanasia is never an easy argument with anyone and it is not an easy subject to talk about because there are so many feelings and emotions involved. I know this, as I recently helped my husband  put his dog of 14 1/2 years to rest. Bullet in this dog's head? NEVER! Lethal injection was the only choice for this dog which held the upmost dignity in any animal I have ever known. Did she pass on peacefull? Absolutely, but not without many tears on our parts!

i notice you didnt answer my questions. perhaps you have also had an unfavorable experience with a gun that is causing a bias?

anyhow i have no problem trusting my vet, nor did i say the needle is inhumane or ineffective. and i have  not come out and raised hell about the way you choose to do things. to me it is not about the money, or mistrust of the medical world. its about MY responsability to the animal, i chose him, i feed him, i cared for him, and when the time comes I will end his suffering.  i tend to think of it from the animals point of view,  just the horse and a guy that brings the (final) meals or treats, not that annoying guy in a white coat with that thing hes been jabbing in my neck for 20 years.

to each his own.

I never thought of it from that point of view.  Chadsalt, you're right.  The animals are definitely on alert when the vet or farrier is coming up to them.  The reaction is very different than just a stranger.   Dog, cat or horse.  Even the people that they see every 8 weeks of so.  My farrier requires the owner hold the horse while he's working on them for that very reason. 

When I cross the rainbow bridge, I want someone loved to see me across, not just a bunch of medical personnel. 

i believe youre missing my point. i have no problem with my vet, and if i was unable to perform the action myself i would not hesitate to call him.

 Most vets for small animals will not allow owners to stay around till the end.

My vet asked if I wanted to stay when I had my dog put down this spring.  I couldn't do it.  I was in tears before I ever left the house to take him to the vet. 

I may be guilty of putting human emotions to a dog's reaction (anthropomorphic behavior) so be it...

When we took our old dog to the vet for euthanasia, we left him.  In the parking lot, we changed our mind and went back.  Deacon was so happy to see us and was calm for the injection.  He accepted the injection discomfort as he always accepted our various ministrations, without fighting us or the drug.

ditto.

ditto again.... I too have had to see a few beloved pets over the rainbow bridge and I was there each and very time to help them over and as hard as it is I can't imagine it any other way.

Hosspuller,

As a horse owner for 50 years, I have had 7 horses euthanized, and buried on the farm. I was with each and every one as the vet administered the drugs. Only one horse, who was high spirited, reared slightly. The rest peacefully laid down. The first injection is for lying down, then the final injection is to stop the heart. Bullets are not always the quick easy way. My research indicates the bullet ideally goes in the middle of the face, slightly above the area between the eyes. One move by the horse or person with the gun can cause things to quickly become ugly. At a ride in Wyoming in the summer of '04, a horse broke it's leg in a hole. The local police where called to shoot the horse. The policeman could not bring themselves to shoot the horse, so an retired military person on the ride shot the horse.It was not pretty. I prefer the vet and a needle. As for small animals, I have also held my dogs for euthanization. One time it was difficult because the vein for the needle in a very elderly, ill dog could not be found. But again, when necessary, I will not hesitate to end my beloved animals lives with a familiar vet, and me there to comfort them in their last minutes on earth. If I did not have the money to end their lives in a peaceful fashion, I would not own them.

Brenda

i realize this was not addressed to me, but would you explain "not pretty"? did the guy botch the shot?

and why does everybody think the gun method is cheaper?  i suspect a vet would put down a few horses for the price of a quality handgun and box of ammo.

The horse was part of a remuda being driven to another location. The leg went through a rotten cover of an old mine shaft while on the drive. Lots of other loose horses around, open high plains country.You have a horse with a leg literally dangling, and have to restrain the horse, who already has the adrenalin pumping. Trying to get the horse tied in such a fashion that an accurate shot could be fired, and not risking anyone's well being, or the other horses, was not pretty. How much better it would have been, although circumstances did not allow, for someone to be able to gently calm the horse, and a lethal injection given.

Brenda

Hi Brenda ... I don't understand the point of your post addressed to me. 

I chose to use a firearm.  The main purpose was to learn.  I researched the technique and had the advice of my vet and several other sources.  The vet was a personal friend. He was going to be there as a favor, while I did it, but was called away.  It was emotionally difficult but I had time to prepare myself. 

I don't think police or military training addresses euthanasia of a horse. I can't imagine their training even allows practice of it(anybody know?).  I can understand the cause of your bad experiance.   The first time for anything is fraught with high potential for bad results.  (That's why brain surgery and medical procedures are called practice... LOL ) While a vet with lots of experiance using a firearm on horses can have a bad result, the potential is low. 

If I have to do it again, thanks to my first horse, I will have had some experiance. The potential to do it with good results is higher than without practice.

Anybody want a discussion on how to use a firearm to euthanize a horse?  Without the emotion, it's just a skill.  It's just like how to teach a horse to load on a trailer for back-country trail riders.

Hosspuller,

My response was to explain that the use of the needle for euthanasia, in my experience with 7 horses, was not negative. Your post mentioned a possible struggle with the use of a needle. The military reference to the horse with the broken leg was in regards to his experience with a gun. No one else in the group except the policeman had firearm experience.

Brenda

i see, thank you for responding. 

IMHO in a "open high plains country" type drive/ride/camping  situation it is a bit irresponsible not to have a gun(and preferably someone that can use it) along just for such an occasion. but i suppose that is what this PC country has come to. i believe i may have been born about 100 years to late, or maybe 100 years to soon.

There once was an old farmer who got in a terible wreck. Some time later he decided he needed to sue the other party for the accident.  In court the opposing attorney questioned him.

Attorney: Didn't you tell the officer at the scene you were just fine?

Farmer: Yes, But!

Attorney: See, he was fine,

Judge: I want to hear the but.

Farmer: I could hear my mule in the other ditch. I could tell from her calls that she was hurt bad. When the police officer arrive he checked on the mule first and then came over to me, he said. Your mule was in pretty bad shape, I had to shoot her, How you doing?

* * * * * * * * * * *

I carry a gun on the trail. It's a large caliber pistol. Small caliber pistols are not very effective against bears. But even with bears I'd hope the noise from a warning shot would be sufficient vs actually shooting a bear.  In an emergency on the trail. Yes I would use it. But at home I wouldn't. First of all, they have pretty much banned discharging any firearm with in city limits. Firing a large caliber fire arm would just get me thrown in jail. Second, I would have to worry about the bullet passing through the animal and just where the bullet would terminate. Third, I'be the meanest man in the neighborhood to all the local kids when the store got around that I'd shot my horse.

I've shot a few cows for the butcher. A 22 cal bullet in the brain and they hit the ground instantly. I suspect a horse would not be much different. Short of being miles back on a remote trail, I'd opt for the vet. The vet would probably be present anyway for the final assessment that the animal was beyond saving.

I have been on pack trips in the Gros Vende (sp?)wilderness area in Wyoming. I ask the guide if they carried a gun......no. I was surprised. Bear and an injured horse are always a concern on wilderness trips. On an Alaska widerness pack trip, we had a guide with a rifle readily at hand at the front of our group, and another at the back with rifle readily at hand. This was primarily for grizzly protection.

Brenda