I've been reading a lot of posts lately on the consequences of towing over your limit.  Like if your in an accident your insurance will not cover you, or you'll get a ticket if you're pulled over.  Sounds like a lot of unfactual chit-chat to me.  Anyone here actually have any first hand experience with this, not "I heard from someone who talked to someone that knew somene" info.  

Couple of questions: In the event of the accident, how would/does the insurance company determine that you were towing over your limit AND that this was the cause of the accident?  Seems like this could be a matter of opinion and subject to too many variables.  Does your insurance company deny you coverage when you rear end someone because you were distracted while you were talking on your cell  phone...no.  How about when you are speeding and wreck...no. It's all negligence but people aren't denied coverage for this.

How does a traffic cop (not a state trooper that regularly performs tractor/trailer inspections) determine this?  Unless you are obviously and grossly overloaded, I doubt traffic cops have the desire or the proper training to make this determination. Everything's possible, I just doubt it happens enough to alarm anyone over.  And no, I am not condoning towing over your limits, nor do I.  Just asking some questions.  So if you have any real world experience refuting my theory, let me know.

Thanks 

There has to be more to this story.  Getting hit by someone running a red light and then being found a fault is impossible or a terrible abortion of the law.  As for the plate issue, that's nothing more than a money making activity for the state of IN, not a safety issue.  What would they do for an out of state vehicle where plates are based on value not on weight?

No, actually there isn't anymore to the story. He was overweight. He was not even completely in the intersection, and the guy HIT HIM in the drivers side front quarter panel. But because by the numbers his rig was unable to avoid the accident and stop in a timely manner, he was found at fault for the accident. The other guy still had to pay fines for the redlight, but he got off light comparitivly(sp?). The state could have cared less as no one died, but the other guys insurance company most likely paid for the lawyering so as not to pay the claim. He lost, and his insurance DID NOT have to cover it because he wasn't running legal. Andy had to testify at the hearing as the investigator, and unfortunatly he hauls a 6 horse Heart with 8' wknd LQ every week. This incident happened in 1998, and caused him to trade his 1997 Chevy CrewCab 4x4 with Banksed 6.5L TD for his 1999 Ford F-550 4x4 CrewCab that he still has. And he HATED Fords, but couldn't get a Chevy that would legaly pull his rig without going to a Kodiak at the time. And he needed 4x4 capability, so he went with Ford, you could say he is a convert now.

We just had our NBHA state show last weekend, and he and I were walking around. He said a guy could make a career writing tickets for all the different violations there if he wanted too. I was one of them, as he pointed out I had forgot to put my new sticker on my RV plate. At least my gooseneck was up to date.

I have two gentlemen friends that are crash scene reconstructors.  One who finds what part/cause of the problem was with the vehicle and another that recreates every little detail about the setting, speeds, condition of automoblies, roads, etc.

One of the first things they'll do if a truck/trailer rig is involved is weight it!

When my friends in that line of buisness tell me NOT to haul over my limits I KNOW they are telling me the truth.  I know that when it's me on the road and I'm hit by some idiot towing over his limits they are going to make sure everything is done correctly.

Just last year some guy parked his rig on a hill, it rolled down and creamed some car.  Rig was overloaded and the brakes worked fine, the driver was at fault both ways.  Settled for over $50M in court and my buddy made a cool $75K for his investigation/report/testimony.

Rich I'm really sorry if you feel the need to second guess folks and some bits of information might be untruthful; but why would you put yourself, your horses and others on the road at risk anyways?

.... we wonder why insurance rates are so high!!!... $50M... that's ridiculous

 "we wonder why insurance rates are so high!!!... $50M... that's ridiculous"

I totally agree with you but the fact is, if the rig had not been over weight, there would not be a case against the rig owner.

RichB,

I will say this one thing. It really doesn't matter if you tow a 60ftLQ 10horse with a half ton, UNTIL your the one that's life is destroyed for being an idiot. Not to mention the other guy. Yeah, maybe the average cop doesn't pay attention to the fact that your 25,000 pounds overweight if he stops you, but if he stops you you must be doing something wrong to begin with. Why chance screwing up your life, and the other folks involved possibly just because you don't want to spend an extra $5000 to buy a truck that would save you misery in the long run. And where you live, with idiots that run up and down the 5 at 90+, weaving in and out of traffic I'd think you probably have better sense than to not be cautious if you care about your life, vehicle, trailer, and animals. Just because you CAN do something, doesn't mean you SHOULD do it.

Reg,

I don't think he is advocating it either, but anytime we have a thread where it calls into question weight issues he does tend to be there. Usually offering the opinion that some of us go overboard, as far as being proponents of HAVING to have big trucks for safety and towing. Folks come on their first time and ask about towing a 2h BP with an Explorer, and we jump on the "you shouldn't do that" band wagon, and RichB tends to be the defender of the poster at times. Good banter, thats all it equals. I'm sure RichB is a great guy, heck he likes horses so he can't be too bad a human being! But I do like debate, and he's good at it.

Thanks Reg.  Reg is correct, I'm not condoning towing over your limit. If you read my original post thoroughly it would be clear; "And no, I am not condoning towing over your limits, nor do I.  Just asking some questions." 

I was just looking for some hard evidence.  I'll say this though, I think cops and insurance companies are getting wise to this and the likely hood that they will check is increasing.   And guess what efaubert1, I think that is a good .     You wouldn't know it out here in California though.  The highways are packed on the weekends with prime examples of towing over your limit. And for the record, my personal opinion is that if you are going to tow with an SUV, the SUV should be  a full size, with a LWB truck frame, such as the Suburban or the Excursion.  

My dad had a saying that I whole heartily agree with: "You can never have too much truck".

This response is about Barry's comments.

I personally have pulled my old 2001 Bison 2h BP, weight of 2850 pounds empty, and 4075 pounds loaded with horse, tack and hay with a 2002 Ford Explorer rated for max towing of 5500 pounds per Ford. With a weight distributing hitch! And it is anything but safe. The front end, even with the WD hitch still was lite, and the little thing was never going to be able to pull into traffic without a 1/2 mile break. And it could barely maintain 55mph going into the wind with the OD off. I did this twice while my truck was being repaired in the same week and I would never do it again. And I'm not rich, but I chose what I drive based on my overall needs and wants. And if I want to haul horses, I need a truck so I do without other things I used to do like playing golf, bowling and softball.

Got a little anecdote that yall will probably find amusing and scary at the same time.

Had a guy call me the other day asking to help him find a trailer. He was looking for an enclosed car hauler 24' to 30' long. I was flipping through the local trader magazine and mentioned several that I thought would work. All that I had found were gooseneck trailers. He said that he would really prefer a bumper pull. I told him that a 30' bumper pull is a pretty big challenge. He said....................."I don't want a gooseneck because I would have to get a pickup instead of my FourRunner to tow with"

Chadsalt,

Maybe my WDH wasn't set right. The old style like mine, two bars coming back from the hitch to the fold up latches on the trailer frame with chain. I used a 4 ft black pipe to lock it in, and had no more than an inch of clearance between the bars and the trailer frame while empty. And it still didn't sit anywhere near level. Should I have waited till I had the trailer loaded to use the bars and lock them in place? I rarely haul with anything less than my truck, but was forced by necessity. So I tried to follow good guidelines, I thought. I had that damn V6 in mine, with a 3.73 rearend. And yes, flat ground. But my trailer was a flat front Bison trailblazer, 7ft tall & 6ft wide of flat wall against the wind.

Not to start a Ford/GM...etc war either - But I've seen more than one Explorer hauling boats and other loads that look smaller/lighter than a Horse trailer and was amazed at how high the front end was...SCARY!!!... That was actually the reason I didn't even consider buying one was I was shopping... as I knew I'd eventually use it to haul.

My mother and I hauled the same trailer and similar sized horses, me with the Jimmy and her with the Jeep GC.... the Jimmy hauled much better - I didn't get a WDH, because I didn't need it - it stayed perfectly level even with two horses. The Jeep did get a little light in the front - but not bad at all. My Jimmy wasn't going anywhere real quick, but I could keep up with traffic... but then I never move quickly with the horses anyway.... Although I did have to brake hard a couple times and had no trouble braking. It did have the heavyier suspension, so made that made a diffference.

again not trying to be rude.....i can say with certainty that if the truck was not anywhere near level  the WDH was improperly adjusted and was basically doing nothing. 

not being there, i would hazard a guess that the head assembly was not set at the correct angle. loaded or unloaded would not mattered in the above described situation. looking at the ball from the side it should be pointing away from the truck, how far is trial and error, depending on how soft the suspension and how heavy the tongue.

my condolences on the v6, ive heard "damn v6" very accurately describes the v6 in the explorer.

Guys,

The WDH I used was older and the angle was set by the manufacturer, as in one solid piece. When empty, and bars locked in it was pretty level. After lloading stuff and the horse it was sqautting about 3 inches. And I only used the 4ft black pipe because it was handy. It wasn't real hard to pull them up with it. So bacically the father-in-laws WDH is useless then I guess.

that must be a very application specific setup, and sounds like your explorer doesnt fall into that catagory.

Originally written by xyzer on 2005-07-21 10:30 PM

Statistics.....odds......Bad Luck........Whatever you wanna call it says a drunk or a teenage driver will take you out WAY Before an overloaded v6 Explorer with an old WDH gets you!...... I worry more about the overtrucked dude runnining 75-80mph with half a load, tunes cranked up foot on the dash..with a cell phone hainging out his ear..not a care in the world!

LOL - so true... chances are if you are overloaded - you are also white knukle driving and uuper attentive... you're right that's probably safer!

I know I am!

Talking about bad drivers, now I have to tell my story...

I'm coming back home, about 4 weeks ago, from a 400 mile round trip where I just picked up my stallion from the breeding farm. Making good time.  We have a 2 lane highway out here with a very bad reputation for killing people. It is traveled by truckers, avoiding the congestion of LA and by people coming or going to Las Vegas from LA.  The speed limit is 55 and it is heavily patrolled.  The truckers don't speed, this ticks off the Las Vegas risk takers (gamblers), so they are always weaving in and out trying to pass. So I'm toting along at around 60mph but I'm not going fast enough for this moron behind me. He decides to pass, but the problem is there is on coming traffic up ahead.  He goes for it anyways and just barely avoids a head on with less than a second to spare.  Now since he is in front of me, I would've had no choice but to run right through the wreck.    And beleive me, I would've  aimed for the guy that was willing to risk my life.  But, he made it and there was no wreck.  So 15 minutes later, I exit the highway and proceed home on side streets.  I pass through one intersection where there has just been an accident.  A women in a car was evidently T-boned and hit so hard, her car knocked over a light signal post. She was dead, in plain view.  Fire engines hadn't even responded yet.  I drive about a mile up, to a 4 way stop sign.  There are about 5 cars ahead of me and I can see a Sheriff's deputy desperately trying to direct traffic to turn right.  I figured there was another traffic accident up ahead.  I didn't want to go right, that is where I came from, home was left.  So as I watched the cop up ahead, I looked left and noticed there was a dirt lot I could pull across and get to the other side so I could continue home.  I was just about to pull out and proceed across when I thought to myself, no, just take your time and be patient. That's when all hell broke loose.

As I turned back around to look at the intersection ahead, I couldn't beleive my eyes.    Imagine sitting in the cab of your truck, with no where to go, and seeing an airborne 30' RV sailing through the air right towards you!  Really!  The RV banked to the left, fell to the ground and began sliding right along the lane next to me.  The RV's rear end was beginning to slide over into my lane of traffic, still heading for me. Fortunately, it hit a car, two cars in front of me (didn't hurt anyone) and this redirected it past me by a mere 3'.   By the time it stopped sliding the rear of the RV was at my driver's side window.  I thought to myself that the driver must not have seen the stop sign.  But then I looked back and saw  20 Sherriff's cruisers right behind him, about 20 deputy's jump out, with handguns and shot guns drawn.  Holy #$%&, I'm in the middle of a high speed pursuit!   Keep in mind, the drivers window of the RV was perfectly aligned with my stallion's window, so he had a perfect view of what was going down, the poor guy.  I jumped out of the cab (cars are stopped in front of me, no where to go) and took cover behind my big STEEL trailer (an unknown advantage of steel trailers: they offer cover when you find yourself in the middle of a gun fight) and waited for the sound of gunfire. My poor horse I thougt to myself.  I wondered what he thought about all this.  Fortunately for my horse, there was no gunfight, unfortunately, the POS driver was taken alive.  Turns out the earlier accident I passed was caused by him.   Killed her for being in the way.  Also turns out this guy (deliberately) just ran over a car full of teenagers at the stop sign I was stopped at.  Their car acted as a ramp and this is what catipulted his RV in the air.  The car he ran over slid around 200 feet and came to rest about 20' from where I finally stopped.  The driver and the front seat passenger jumped out, the 2 guys in the back were not so lucky.  About 10 minutes had gone by and here come all the fire trucks, right next to my trailer, with the sirens blaring at my poor boy stuck in the back.  Then the Fire Dept. helicopter lands around 100' from us.  My horse didn't like that, a black hawk is pretty loud when it's landing.  The fire crews worked on getting those guys out of the rear of the pancaked car for about 10 minutes. 1 lived, 1 died later that night, 16 years old.  To make matters worse, the parents somehow showed up right in the middle of getting them out.  Talk about drama.  It was awful.   The accident happened around 3:30pm, they didn't let us go until 9:30pm, since the site was declared a crime scene.  Fortunately, it wasn't hot, and I had food and water for my horse.

Had I began to turn to cross that dirt lot, I would've been screwed, me, my horse, my truck and trailer, all to save a few minutes.  So no matter how safe you drive, what kind of rig you have, you can never predict what some moron will do in front you.  THe lesson learned:  take all the precautions you can with a big truck and strudy, well built trailer, don't be in a rush, and stay alert for the scumbags and morons out there.  

"THe lesson learned:  take all the precautions you can with a big truck and strudy, well built trailer, don't be in a rush, and stay alert for the scumbags and morons out there."

AMEN!!  

Wow Rich.  That's a helluva story.  Glad you came out OK.

Happy Trails,

Michelle

Thanks for sharing your story.  It's all to true.  My own brother was killed 9 years ago while he rode his motorcycle to work.  A truck driver (I am not slamming them, my brother was one too!), was in a hellfire hurry and pulled into traffic (he figured they would get out of his way) and my brother was killed instantly, not a chance.  Guess it doesn't matter what  your driving or pullin, be careful and think about what your doing, it could change someone's life. 

Just my 2 cents, I would not pull a trailer bigger than a 2 place with an SUV.  I was always told that the wheel base made a difference, but I haven't known anyone have an accident pulling that way, so maybe just a myth?  Just boils down to personal preference and what you can afford!  We have a 2004 F250 ext cab and a 3 horse slant GN.  BUT, I didn't start with that!!  Thank god for 2 place trailers!  This thread brought up alot of good points!