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Veteran
Posts: 153
 
Location: Grant City, Missouri | Up until just this last week we have had a ton of rain in North West Missouri, as many other places have also. I have a paint quarter horse that has grass foundered before and so I had him and our pony dry lotted since the first of May. I also have 2 other horses that have never grass foundered and frequently I would let them out on the grass. Since I was preparing for a week's trail ride with one of them and the paint I kept all of them up pretty consistently as the rain and rich grass continued. A few days before my ride I turned my 24 yr. old gelding out in the pasture to kinda relieve the messy, muddy "drylot" and barn area. The night before I was to leave I brought him in only to discover he had foundered. I had my husband give him Butte while I was gone as he could barely get around. When I got back I hauled him to the vet and they took xrays. The coffin bone had not started to turn yet but still have a couple weeks to watch him. My question is how can I feed him? The vet said he could have as much as a half coffee can of grain a day to give him his Butte but he is off it now to prevent stomach ulcers. I have always maintained him with at least 1 coffee can a day if not more. He is looking really thin to me now and I hate for him to get much thinner. He isn't going to get much from the grass hay that he is restricted to now. He was formerly on a mixed grass hay with a little alfalfa, timothy and clover. I guess I can winter him on that after the threat of grass founder is over. Anyone have any advice? Supplement recommendations? My paint had never had any grain before I bought him so I don't grain him. The previous owners much have known he had the potential to founder; he will get fat on grass though. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 690
Location: missouri | Ask your vet about Previcox/ they use the same dosage for a horse as they do on a dog. Milder on the horse's stomach than Bute. (We used it after patella surgery at K-state on one of our mares...I would give him prairie hay and minimum grain just to get the meds down....dry lot him and watch his feet for heat.Have you thought of a little younger horse to trail ride??? ( I use our older *retired horses on very short, light trails... this hot weather is rough on older horses sometimes. A 5-10 yr old still has enough P&V for challenging trails.Hope he gets better, good luck to you. I love my older horses too. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 430
Location: TN | How is your horse's weight? More than the amount of feed the amount of non- structural carbohydrate in your feed and hay is EXTREMELY important. What are you currently feeding and how much per day? |
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Veteran
Posts: 153
Location: Grant City, Missouri | Thanks Calamity. Yes I love my old horses. I will check with my vet about that med. He is actually getting around okay....yes, he is up in a dry lot and will stay there thru Fall the vet said. I clean his feet out a couple times a day; he doesn't leave the barn much anymore. I give him just a hand full of grain. I feel so bad for him cause he always enjoyed his sweet feed. |
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Veteran
Posts: 153
Location: Grant City, Missouri | Cutter he is getting all the grass hay that he wants and that handful of grain when I feed my other horses. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 430
Location: TN | Do you make your hay or buy it? Is it possible to have it tested for NSC? |
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Veteran
Posts: 153
Location: Grant City, Missouri | We produce our own. What is NSC? |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 430
Location: TN | NSC= Non-Structural Carbohydrate. It is the levels of sugars and starches in your hay or grain. Horses who develop laminitis from metabolic issues benefit greatly from diets low in NSC, usually below 15%. Hay can be soaked to leech off some sugars and starches. |
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Veteran
Posts: 153
Location: Grant City, Missouri | Oh, no I don't live anywhere near anyplace that could do that. I feel better since talking to my vet yesterday. He said that I could give as much as a 1/2 coffee can a day after we get past this flare up. We baled some straight brome hay last week to get us by and then after Fall they can get back on their good hay.Thanks for the response. |
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Regular
Posts: 91
Location: Waverly,Oh | cutter, I believe that NSC is a much bigger issue then most of us know about. I wonder if there is any kind of test the vet can do to detect inflammation caused by NSC [ sugars and starches] |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 430
Location: TN | There are tests that can be done to see if there are underlying conditions that can be aggravated by a diet high in NSC. I have worked in the equine nutrition business for over 15 years and it is standard procedure when working with any laminitic horse to use the lowest NSC diet possible. Many people do not realize that pasture and hay also contribute to NSC as well as grain. Getting a sample tested is simple and can be done at labs like Dairy One or Equi Analytical for a reasonable price. |
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Regular
Posts: 91
Location: Waverly,Oh | From what I have read, levels of NSC's in grass and hay fluctuate considerably ,for example, wet weather vs dry weather. I would be very interested to know about some of the "underlying problems" you are referring to. Testing my pastures doesn't seem practical to me since they change frequently. I would rather do a test on my horse. The fact the he gained a lot of weight on just grass is an indicator ,I would think. He just acts like his joints are sore. |
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Member
Posts: 5
Location: Portarlington, Victoria, Australia | I completely agree with @Remington77 |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 430
Location: TN | NSC can vary from field to field, time of day the field is cut, if the forage is stressed due to weather conditions. The amount of NSC in forage can greatly affect a horse's health particularly if they are prone to laminitis. You still need to understand what the amount of NSC is in a diet in order to properly handle certain conditions in horses that lead to laminitis. You can equate it to knowing you are diabetic, but not knowing the amount of sugar and carbohydrates in your diet. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 430
Location: TN | Insulin resistance, Cushing's Diease, Equine Metabolic Syndrome come to mind first off. |
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Regular
Posts: 91
Location: Waverly,Oh | Cutter, I sincerely appreciate this information. Please know that I do not understand everything I have read about the NSC issues. But,I am convinced that I and a lot of other people out there have horses that are experiencing lameness issues caused by NSC's [and maybe coupled with other issues]. So, can you suggest a solution that will result in a sound horse. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 430
Location: TN | Try working with your vet or an equine nutritionist to limit the total amount of NSC in your horse's diet. Most feeds companies offer assistance through their sales staff in helping horse owners make the right choice of feed for their individual horse. You can have your hay analyzed at Dairy One or Equi Analytical to know the NSC level for less than $100. http://dairyone.com/product/forage-analysis-kit/ http://equi-analytical.comAnother good website is www.safergrass.org. |
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Regular
Posts: 91
Location: Waverly,Oh | I took my gimpy horse off grass altogether . Put him in an outside stall/run and am feeding him plain grass hay and Safechoice pellet feed. Also gave him bute [in tablet form] morning feeding and evening feeding. I lunge him in a 60 ft round pen once a day. First day the gimpyness was just barley noticeable . Second day, did not notice any issues at all. Third day he was kicking up his heels and bucking as I lunged him. Obviously, the bute was working. I am keeping him up but stopped the bute. Hopefully he will be ok. After talking to several other people in the area, they are experiencing lameness issues also. Have one neighbor that has two cows that just came up lame. Extension agent told him it was the carbohydrates in the unusually green grass this year. The hay I am feeding might be high in sugar and starches also [did not have it tested] but I would think the live green grass would have greater levels. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 430
Location: TN | Which SafeChoice feed are you feeding? |
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Regular
Posts: 91
Location: Waverly,Oh | I am feeding Safechoice Original. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 430
Location: TN | You might consider switching to SafeChoice Special Care as its NSC is 15% as opposed to SafeChoice Original, which is 22%. That can make a difference with a horse with a history of laminitis. To figure NSC from the links below, the together the values of sugars and starches.http://www.nutrenaworld.com/products/horses/safe-choice/safechoice-original-horse-feed/index.jsphttp://www.nutrenaworld.com/products/horses/safe-choice/safechoice-special-care-horse-feed/index.jsp |
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Regular
Posts: 91
Location: Waverly,Oh | thanks cutter, I will try to find some SafeChoice Special Care and get him switched over . I lunged him this afternoon and he did good. But, only been off the bute 36 hours. thanks for your help |
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How to deal with grass founder
