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New User
Posts: 4
| First, I want to say that I like what I have seen in Horse Trailer World and I hope I can contribute as much as I am sure I will learn.I am thinking of getting a new RAM, either a 2500 or 3500. Right now, I am thinking of a 3500 Dually. We are looking at eventually picking up a 3 horse slant trailer with living quarters and I am not sure if I should go gas or diesel.I am leaning towards the diesel, however I do not know if the extra cost is worth it. For what it matters, we live in Arizona and would pull through out the west, through the mountains and through steeper mountain grades. Due to this, I think the diesel is the way to go.For those with the experience, please chime in and help a relative newbie out! Your insight and experience is appreciated.Thanks! |
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Member
Posts: 20
| Honestly I am torn on this as well. I used to be a die hard Diesel man, but the maintanence costs are at least twice of that of a gasser. so I went to an 8.1 L chevy. I love this truck, I get horrible mileage (12 on the average) pulling or empty it never changes much unless there are long steep grades. I am pulling a 4h non LQ but tack room steel gooseneck trailer, usually full of horses and tack, or a 24 ft gooseneck flatbed with 14 3x4x8 alfalfa bales. either way plenty heavy. A gasser will do what you need especially if you arent hauling everyday. Maintanence cost can kill a guy. JMTC |
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Expert
Posts: 5870
   
Location: western PA | If you're buying the truck for hauling, the diesel will get you around the mountains and provide comfortable open road cruising. If you're purchasing the truck for everyday transportation and occasionally used for hauling, the gas truck will serve you well at a much less lower cost |
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Regular
Posts: 80
Location: Central WI | For me it depends on the size/weight of your trailer with the LQ. We have an 11' sw full LQ, 8' wide, 7' tall 3 horse and I wouldn't consider pulling it except with our DRW diesel. I've pulled an EMPTY 3 horse BP with DR using my GMC 1/2 ton and didn't like the way it felt/pulled let alone getting 8-9 mpg. It is a hassle with maintenance, insurance, and diesel fuel costs but for me it's worth the margin of safety and the feeling of security when hauling down the road. Just my opinion. |
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New User
Posts: 4
| Have to agree with you dkhunter.While I am in Arizona now, I moved from Northwest Illinois and have spent more time in Wisconsin and Minnesota than Illinois. If you didn't like the performance in your area, I am certain it would not be good out here! On a side note, I hope you dropped a bunch of Green Heads this year! |
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Member
Posts: 20
| Just curious but how is a diesel safer than a gas for hauling? a 3/4 ton is a 3/4 ton and a 1 ton is a 1 ton. engine dont make a difference in brakes or transmission in most cases. |
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Expert
Posts: 5870
Location: western PA | I think 04's main difference in safety, was comparing the towing abilities of a half ton SRW to a one ton DRW truck. As was stated, the motor differences would not be responsible for that aspect of towing. |
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Regular
Posts: 80
Location: Central WI | Correct. My opinion was based primarily on the advantages of having DRW when hauling either our GN or BP. DRW is only available on diesel trucks. I would add that there is more power available with a diesel (ours is a turbo) which can be of benefit in some emergency type situations such as passing or pulling out of harms way. |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 385
Location: high desert, CA. | I live just over the border area from you in California, and can say that you will be happier with a diesel when you pull live cargo out here. Folks think Arizona and California are flat like Kansas or Oklahoma, and it just aint so. Even going from Scottsdale to San Diego or Los Angeles, you must climb long passes that will make a gasser shriek. I would advise if you come into California, you buy your fuel in Arizona, so to save the taxes imposed.As to maintenance, if you drive and tow a substantial amount, the maintenance is not much more, as using "Oil Change Interval" testing, will let you change oil and filters on a more reasonable frequency. Oil doesn't wear out, it only gets contaminated and the additives break down. In the case of my Dodge, the Blackstone lab testing lets me change the oil at 12,000 miles, and filters at about 7500. The fuel filters get changed with the oil, and drained weekly. My Gasser had to be changed every 5-6000, and the mileage is HORRIBLE on a gasser. |
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New User
Posts: 4
| Originally written by siseley on 2013-02-21 6:29 AM
I live just over the border area from you in California, and can say that you will be happier with a diesel when you pull live cargo out here. Folks think Arizona and California are flat like Kansas or Oklahoma, and it just aint so. Even going from Scottsdale to San Diego or Los Angeles, you must climb long passes that will make a gasser shriek. I would advise if you come into California, you buy your fuel in Arizona, so to save the taxes imposed.As to maintenance, if you drive and tow a substantial amount, the maintenance is not much more, as using "Oil Change Interval" testing, will let you change oil and filters on a more reasonable frequency. Oil doesn't wear out, it only gets contaminated and the additives break down. In the case of my Dodge, the Blackstone lab testing lets me change the oil at 12,000 miles, and filters at about 7500. The fuel filters get changed with the oil, and drained weekly. My Gasser had to be changed every 5-6000, and the mileage is HORRIBLE on a gasser. You get to the Scottsdale area much? I'm just west of Cave Creek. I am leaning more and more towards the diesel. The last thing I want is a truck that will perform moderately when I can go and get the truck that I know will do the job with out question. |
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Veteran
Posts: 264
Location: Sumas Washington | I am on my 5th Dodge Diesel PU and could not be happier. Having sais that I do NOT use my diesel trucks to run to town daily for groceries,parts etc. They haul HEAVY loads as they are ment to do and they do it better and cheaper than any gas rig. Some valid points have been brought up on this thread, extra cost of the diesel engine, extra maintainence coste etc. But nobody mentioned the FACT that the truck you purchase with a diesel engine will be worth MUCH MUCH more at trade in time. This often more than pays for the original purchase price bump. IF you are towing in the mountains and a 3h LQ trailer by all means buy the diesel. IMHO |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 385
Location: high desert, CA. | Saddleup7;No, I don't go that often to Scottsdale, but the Scottsdale Arabian Show is NOT to be missed!Last week I saw some of the BEST in the Arab world, and had a ball visiting barns and picking my Stallion wishes of the week! LOL! |
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Regular
Posts: 79
Location: pineville,mo | I have a 2005 gmc dually ,8.1 gas,allison, when lq loaded with 2 weigh 21,920 gross, as my lq is solid oak ,hart trailer, and it has foot the bill anywhere i have pulled from the Black Hills to South Tx and about everywhere in between ,BUT it averages 9 mpg, we only use it on the trailer and i really love this truck....... |
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Member
Posts: 42
Location: MO | We are on our third dodge diesel truck. Would never consider owning a gas truck. Our 05 one ton dually gets 22 mpg with regular driving and average about 9.5 pulling a 42 ft loaded lq trailer. We had a friend with a ford gas dually that pulled a 4 horse loaded in the mountains and they did not have the pulling power that we did pulling through some of those mountain passes. |
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Regular
Posts: 53
Location: Tomball, TX | I have had both gas and diesel 3/4 ton trucks, both automatic, both 4x4. I don't think the gas truck had the power to pull my 3 H GN LQ trailer through Colorado and in fact the transmission gave out at 13,000 miles. Long story, not relevant. Could have been a fluke but it sent me to Ford for the diesel and I have not regretted it one minute. Even though the fuel is more expensive, that truck will haul anything I hook to it! Mileage is 15 mpg city and 20 highway without the trailer and 13/16 with. So far maintenance has been routine.
Edited by poshponies 2013-03-31 10:08 AM
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Regular
Posts: 53
Location: Tomball, TX | You got my attention on the 12,000 mile oil change! Can you tell me more? I stretch my diesel to 5-6,000 miles and thought I was stressing the truck! Of course Ford told me the oil breaks down in heat (Houston, Texas)...true/false? |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 385
Location: high desert, CA. | Poshponies;Yes, you can stretch the intervals if you test for the contaminants, and I use Blackstone Labs to test. I use Shell Rotella T 15w/40 weight, and usually change the oil every other filter change. This gives me some room for cost savings, as my truck uses 3 Gallons, plus one quart at every change. ( this is about $65.00 for just oil. I buy my filters at the Cummins parts place, and use only Baldwin, or Donaldson filters. Yes, I do my own changes, as this is something I can do myself. If you want to read more on this subject, I suggest the Cummins diesel Forum, and do a search for oil change intervals. or filter changes. If you want to find out what is going on in your oil, I suggest you have it analyzed. Blackstone Labs (260) 744-2380, or blackstone-labs.com Also it is best to change the FUEL filters at a more frequent interval than you might expect, as the newer engines use High Pressure Common Rail injection, and it is about 23,000 PSI. So, if any grit gets past the filter, it really screws with your injectors, and they cost about $450.00 per injector, not including labor to install!!!! |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 385
Location: high desert, CA. | Oil does not wear out. it DOES get contaminated with soot, silicon, metallic elements from engine wear, and loses it's additives, which are what give oils the ability to suspend the soot, and counteract the acids formed when you combust fuels. HEAT, IS one of the killers of oil in your engine, and contributes to the loss of additives, and the formation of carbon. In fact, waste oils are now recleaned, and new additives replaced, then reused for mixing with virgin oil to make the newer oils for vehicles. Another source for info is;bobtheoilguy.comGreat resource, and you can get some answers to any question on oils, and how they work, and how the break down. Some is "Subjective", and some is real science. |
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 Expert
Posts: 2453
Location: Northern Utah | I have not had a Gas Engine truck since 99 when I bought my first diesel. I know they have improved, Just as the diesels have improved. I side with the diesel owners here, in that I firmly believe they are the way to go if you are towing. Especially if you are towing heavier loads. I currently have a 2011 Ford 6.7L diesel. It has 80,000 miles on it now and other than using a little more oil per oil change and changing my fuel filters every 15,000 miles. I don't really see it being more expensive from a maintenance stand point. I used Blankstone on my 6.0L engines and found that changing the oil every 6,000 miles was a safe interval, The 6.7L engine is going 7,500 mile per oil change and uses 2 qt less oil. So it is cheaper to maintain than my previous trucks. I have gotten as high as 23 mph for empty hiway drives at 60 mph, I consistently get 18 to 18.5 mpg for 80 mph highway drives. Towing is usually between 10 and 13 mpg depending on what I tow and what road I am driving. Yes diesel cost 50Cents a gallon more than gas, but I get enough extra mileage per gallon to offset the higher cost. For the opposite view, I buy new trucks and drive them for 100,000 miles. I don't own or operate vehicles over that mileage. Diesel will cost more to work on and repair when they start to age. As Sissely mentioned, injectors are expensive to replace, Glow plug, turbo and the new trucks have very expensive particulate filters. If you are the type that buys used trucks or keeps them for a lot of miles. You may want to look at the long term maintenance cost. |
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Regular
Posts: 79
Location: Alberta Canada | To me it is a simple solution... I driver a diesel to pull with,... a stock trailer and a lq 3 horse, and I own a gas job truck for my daily driver. BUT I guess I am lucky, cause I own a diesel car for the long drives. This diesel is a VW Passat and gets 56 mpg This all works for me.. but most likely not for others.. it all boils down to what you need, want and can afford. |
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 Veteran
Posts: 259
Location: Topeka Ks | I've pulled with both and when your running a gas burner it works the living daylights out of it. Everyone is right cost per mile on a diesel is more and sometimes repairs can be painful. However when you need an engine that can develop torque choose a diesel.Not that this is very scientific but count the number of gas burning semis.They gross 80k lbs I'm at 21k lbs packing light. |
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Regular
Posts: 93
Location: Cherokee, Ia | Love my 01 Ford Powerstroke crew cab, long box. Owned a 93 Chevy Sliverado dually...awesome truck, but sucked lot of gas pulling. But was a good truck....ran for 249K miles until bearings went out. Can't beat mileage on my diesel.
7.3 liter gets 23 on open highway and 16-17 city...pulling around 12 or more ( is a manual tranny) only has 130K on it, 2nd owner. No major repairs other than ball joints. Yeah, costs a little more at the pump, but love the 30 gallon tank! I know oil changes are more costly, but to me, diesels seem to last forever!! |
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Regular
Posts: 93
Location: Cherokee, Ia | error....I get around 15 or more pulling 3 horse trailer. Almost double of what gas truck did!! |
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Veteran
Posts: 109
Location: Bella Vista, AR | I have a 8.1 GMC gas but I only pull one horse, 22 Ft Merhow. I didn't think they made the 8.1 engine any more, mine is an 06. I love it and have had NO problems, love the Allison tranny. |
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Member
Posts: 20
| hey dont make it anymore. I think you got the last year, Mine is an 02 and pulls like a tank. just awesome |
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Veteran
Posts: 109
Location: Bella Vista, AR | Ok, thought 06 was the last one. Sure glad I got it, if something happends to it, will have to go diesel.. :( |
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Member
Posts: 15
Location: Southern Oregon | I've owned many diesels for personal and business use. There is a reason OTR diesel rigs are almost exclusively diesel. The operating costs of a diesel, over time, are less than a gas rig. They have very long economic lives. It's not unusual to see trucks with over a million miles on them. Pickup truck Diesel engines are a slightly different breed but still enjoy many of the benefits that their larger cousins do.
I'll comment on my current '10 Dodge one ton DRW Cummins powered tow vehicle. Pulling a 15,000 lb (loaded) 3 horse LQ trailer I see about 10 MPG where I pull in the mountainous west. On the flats of Kansas figure on 11 - 12 MPG. For the first 100,000 miles you should have minimal maintenance expense. Changing the fluids mostly. With proper care the life of the truck should be around 300K if you are pulling a lot.
Today's diesels are NOT great grocery getters. If you don't plan to pull often a gas rig may be a better choice but you need at least a one ton rig to pull that trailer. Diesels do typically enjoy higher resale so that is something else to consider. |
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Veteran
Posts: 188
Location: Ingalls, Ks | Diesels are definitely the way to go for pulling. I'll just give you my two cents on the gas. We've been pulling with a diesel but I needed something for my daughter to make a daily 5 mile trip to college in. I knew it would be hard on the diesel so I found a Ram 2500 with a 5.7 hemi. It was supposed to be used "only in emergencies". Well long story short that "liittle gas engine" has pulled around 7 horses in a stock trailer with no problems (so far). I'm quite pleased with the towing capabilities of that 5.7 gas engine (3.73 rear end). Would I recommend it for long hauls every day NO. But for the occasional pull, at a reasonable pace, it sure surprised me. Good luck with your decision. |
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Member
Posts: 13
Location: Bethel, Oh | bought my 02 ford 7.3L diesel new in 02. have only had standard maintenance so far engine wise. remember there are 2 batteries (at least in my truck), so each time you need new batteries, you need 2.
I love this truck, and the resale on it right now is very good if I wanted to sell (but i don't). I have just over 100K miles on it, and it is my only vehicle. I get around the same mpg as other posters.
based on several suggestions I have only ran synthetic oil in my truck since we bought it new. because I haven't had any issues, I would have to say I am happy with that decision, and I do change my oil much less frequently than my dad has to in his gas truck. the filter is much larger in my truck.
good luck on your decision. :-) |
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Regular
Posts: 98
Location: MD | This discussion is so "regional" and application related. You folks who haul in to area mountains ranges like the Sierra and Rocky's are pulling in much higher elevations than someone say, from the east coast. I'd probably fork over the bucks for a diesel too if I lived out west. For me, my hauling is done below 3000', in the Blue Ridge and once a year in the Smokey's. I have a gasser that 60% of its use is to pull a 2H GN, the other time is run-around town stuff and light loads. It fits my needs just fine. I haul about 25 times a year, half of those in to the mountains - gasser is the way to go for me. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 330
Location: northeast Texas | On the safety issue, with the diesel engine you get an exhaust brake. Wonderful thing to have in the mountains. I have an 07 Dodge 5.9 Cummins. Added a Pac Brake and absolutely love it. |
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Gas or Diesel?
